keep within american society to stay with our to international up next on going underground action. right. tom st. challenges us army war, college professor john novel on ukraine's proxy war. and israel's slaughter in gaza the the action or time. so you're welcome back to going underground pool. got single around the world from dubai in the heart of the middle east nation nations after iraq, afghanistan, syria, libya, yes'm. and then more recently, their army of alleged genocide and gaza, or preparing something else, it's billed, is the largest military drills into the circle of cold war and comes on the heels

of nato's admiral ballot telling washington's allies to my radios and flashlights. in preparation for conscription in war, joining me now from colorado. pennsylvania is professor john now go retired us army, lieutenant colonel, a veteran of to was on iraq. you must mind to the us army marine conference agency manual. on the latest, the i a boss general, the translator pentagon, both matters is now professor of war fighting studies with us army war college. thank you so much for your time and kind of fun coming on. i know you're not speaking for the us, the homie or the us army will college. but just tell me what it is to be like the past few months lecturing, speaking to nato officials, and they're like, just ahead of this. um, well, stead for us to defend deals of 90000 troops, apparently in the next few weeks the biggest since the i said so cold, cold war, it was very warm for a lot of people. what's it like being talking, talking to the, to my students here at the army war college are mostly army officers from

75 different countries around the world. air force officers, navy officers, marine corps officers, some state department officials, but primarily made great army officers. lieutenant colonels just passed the tank command. and what i tell them is that in the national security business business is good and getting better. that the good news is that their chances for promotion are high. it's a bad news is i think the chances for great power war are higher than they've been in 30 years. say, i mean, today you're teaching the as an exponential antagonism about and play for mission. i cooperation, organization, countries in the wake of all these different places. what i mean, i should just get come to the quick and say, why do you think 2 navy seals were killed or gave up that lives for the us military and the red z in the bus few days. so very sad to, to lose our sales,

highly trained professionals. they were conducting boarding operations as part of an efforts to defend international trade through the red sea. um the that is one of the costs of the international free trade system that the united states are friends and allies around the globe and have promoted since the end of the 2nd you think was opperation is by the by and the ministration is going to increase the ability of shippers and insurance companies to be able to ensure free trade and not lead to increased attacks. well, some of that depends on what a ran decides to do, of course. so a big part of the problems in the middle east and there's plenty of blame to go around, is that a ran is trying to form and problems for the united states and to put pressure on israel. and the attacks on shipping in the red sea are part of that effort. united states is trying to punish those who are committing those attacks.

it is trying to safeguard international shipping and, and it is doing so with relatively limited success. so far, i'm quite concerned that that war may turn hotter before it grows cold. where do you get this information and i hear it repeated. the iran controls and sorrow a in, in human. i mean, as is repeatedly being said, these are allies of iran, clearly in the region, and you're on probably quite close now with china or arguably up to china broke at this. how do you run the deal? china needing these trade routes desperately and answer a lot. tally, saying they were only targeting is really linked ships. china and russian ships are explicitly named by a human is not being targets. so how did these 2 navy seals die,

giving up their lives in a fight that surely was not going to increase international will trade? this is about something else. this is about guys that, well, certainly, that has the science of our casa a, but in fact, the war is designed to put pressure on israel in the united states. and the only way they're able to do that, and that is by attacking international trade. united states is working hard with the international trade is it's trade with israel, and maybe israel is allies, is not trained with, i mean, they know they've exposure. they said they're not going to attack questions. you have chinese ships presuming side of african ships or so that they, they certainly say which ships they're attacking, but they are attacking a number of ships that have no connection with israel whatsoever. so they're, they're simply not that good. they are able to harass ships,

including us naval ships in the area. they are able to bring attacks against international shipping. and of course, the law of the sea, the united nations, all agree that ships peacefully transiting international waters are not to be attacked. and that's one of the most basic principles of international relation. the global economy depends upon that rule being fall, isn't that the embargo in cuba, the same isn't have the embargo on cuba for the past 50 years. i mean, i more centrally here wouldn't to cease firing guns and the us voted the un security council being more effective way of ensuring freedom of navigation. then uh, these 2 navy seals giving up their lives and strikes on the poorest country and they are build as well. so those of who these might and might not stop their attacks depending on what the outcome of, of any ceasefire in guns or might be. of course,

that decision is israel, so not the united states to make. i am not a huge fan of all of the decisions that israel is making that i think it is time for a cease fire or at least i moved to more targeted strikes. i'd like to see more discrimination and the use of force from is real and well, just the whole guys are the thing we so you just solve the problem in just what you said. so all you have to say was sees far and we can go to the stages, go and see which you know, which is why the answer alignment with the prescribe by the, by the administration. and the 1st instance, because there was progress on the idea of uh, you know, a view of the process and just see if i did stage, you could have solve the freedom of navigation instantly by just saying that you need to strike them. indeed, it's certainly nice to believe that we could return to a status call on time before october 7th, but i don't think that's possible in any way, shape or form,

even if the 100 or so hostages. some of the american citizens weren't released as, as it is long overdue, mostly, noncombatants. no, no one, no principal of international law, and no religion recognize religion in the world believes that hostages innocent hostages should be held either one day. if you don't want to be opposition, dances is the israel is keeping thousands of palestinians hostages. but in any case, how does supplying loads of weapons some people say by biasing congress to attack the tunnels supposedly and probably make it more likely those captives also just a kill benefit of the argument you're making as well as i said, i'm not on on a bashed fan of the strategy that israel is conducting. i would prefer to see more discretion. um, i do think it's time to move toward

a different phase of the war. but again, those are israel's decisions to make, not america's israel has solver. and when they call, make them without the weaponry, i mean it can use after guns with that, i munition, it certainly is grateful for the support it's received from the united states. it does have a pretty substantial arms weaponry industry of its own way, concise towards your job that you're saying they don't need the munition. the, the by the ministration is speeding through. and the congress obviously angry about that not being consulted enough. they don't actually need it. they have enough weaponry themselves in grow. also, they're, there, they're moving toward a different phase of this complex. they are, are moving toward or away from. if you compare it to a rack 2003, they're moving away from the general invasion and toward i, i believe i owe a more targeted counter insurgency campaign counterterrorism campaign. where rather

than using tax special forces james well of the day uh, individuals from intelligence believes are, are responsible for holding the hostages for leading the october 7th attacks. and, and so the demands for ammunition will go down. when you study this, d p, you are the author, the 1st counter insurgency. manual. you're telling me that everything you're watching there, conforms to this idea of 2 stages. and the next stage will be this. and i mean a genocide charges would be in to the national court of justice back by the arab league vote my south africa co conspiracy charges perhaps being developed against the united states and european union in britain for arming the genocide and you're saying, yep, the 2nd stage they'll capture those responsible for the october 7th attacks. right . and we're going to throw around charges of genocide that kind of cars go both

ways. no, no the i c j o they have no they they, they could but, but so how much needs to recognize israel's right to exist? they have a change their joshua, their, their actions on october 7th, did not demonstrate that. they believed that is really right. he repeatedly said the change the charges to accept the 967 and what is it? and as you, as well as anybody know as being a tv saying things as easy doing things as far as so. uh they, they clearly hope to my belief, man, i'm not here just a moment. i love and i'm just saying like you as a military strategist, what israel has done and now brought britain in the united states and europe in union. india is the entire world in international communities. do you think they're all participating in genocide and and 4 percent of the entire population of guys is

dead, disappeared or wounded, which would equate to 13000000 americans dying of to being bombed in the usa. certainly the whole world does not think that israel is conducting genocide. americans not. i do not. i do believe that a mosse is responsible for the consequences of its actions. right? none of those people whose lives have sadly added 4 percent of the population of gods as you know. right. many of them, innocent civilians caught in the crossfire most most, most wanting to view in most to the resources. most of them, women and children. as many of the certainly many of the women and children of course with the 7th age of the population in gauze. and that's probably likely. however, right under the hood view, integrity, general ed attorney retainer is saying that it's on president. what's the price schedule, what's that asked for the attacks of october? so and so i would have

a very different perspective if october 7th hadn't happened and, and if it's real, we're not trying to recover its hostages and kill or capture those who are trying very even okay with this. haven't isn't now hopefully debated. and people in these really impress arthur full front of showing how most of the or many of the those effects it on october. the 7th are killed by his riley american armament on the day . if you'd read these rarely papers, it's full of this information about how it wasn't em, us killing children at all. and the, but i, i've seen the videos of home us the right thing in killing children, cutting the heads off of this really. so yeah, all of that has been debunked as you, as you know, the know, really premises that the full for under showing that all that evidence was forged. anyway, the drug and alcohol just to help you the more from the professor wolf, i think studies. buick, how many will college after this break?

the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings except with such orders at conflict with the 1st law. show your mind, anticipation, we should be very careful about our professional intelligence at the point, obviously is to create a trust rather than fit the various mean with the artificial intelligence. we have so many of them and the robot must protect this phone. existence was alexis the

welcome back to going undergoing. i'm still here with professor joe now go retired us army, lieutenant colonel and professor bullfighting studies and us army war college professor. i do want to get onto your a, but i suppose i should just ask, given that you are the author of the counter insurgency. manual human has vowed revenge on the usa and u. k. for its strikes in the past few days. um is, is britain in the united states prepared for any insurgency against them? however, that might to happen. i mean, now whatever context that might happen. yeah, i think going to look more like terrorism in life and search and see. so it is certainly possible that your many agents could conduct additional tax on us british assets in the region as possible. if those attacks could extend further into

a rack is raining attack sponsored attacks recently have the human does not have global reach. and um, i think they can do more damage to commercial shipping, then they can to the armed forces of the united states and our friends. well, certainly there was a 2 british warships that are backed up into each other because once this issue immediately and you came into through a defense, i have to admit in the past few days. so let's go to, to ukraine. then you predicted the median victory for persian federalists, hey, at the outset of the move in to waste and ukraine, and now slots in the global south. i could be, would say, persians moving to east and ukraine, and he, obviously, so it is protecting the people of use and don't yet even in the global side of the thing, it is the staffing pistol for the bearing of us. and by forever as bricks,

images, as a huge you might see a new opponent for the united states and nato india and china and continue to fund the russian war. obviously, buying the energy. how do you see it now? oh, 1st i very good company. when i incorrectly predicted the rest of what, when the work with light the trailer, the joint chiefs believed the same thing turned out that the russians were not as capable as i feared, and that the ukrainians were tougher fighters. that i believed the war against russia between russia and ukraine was part of prudence, territory. alarm visions, a desire to restore the former soviet empire. it has failed to date. the route main. geo political result of it has been an expansion of nato and expansion of western defense budgets. nato coming closer together, actually having

a much longer border to defend against nato going forward. and so i, i think it's safe to say that to this point. hooton's invasion of ukraine has failed horribly or so we don't know what's going to happen next. and in fact, i'm quite concerned about whether the united states will still support ukraine going. why, why given the, you teach and read widely and know that uh for decades now, the warnings about nato expansion east was bound to capitalize a reaction from moscow. whoever was leading it a do just don't buy that at all. and why do you think that it's not the pressure did badly in the initial stages of the war? it was maybe they were blocking cab from tanks. going that way for the supply lines and they're in it for the long haul because the real battle here is for the dollar for uh, uh, economic power. and as we can see,

western europe. so the economies lie in taxes. so they, they certainly weren't getting it for the long haul. the tag crews headed toward keep their dress uniforms on board for a victory. for me. i spent a bunch of time on tax. there is no spare room for a dress uniform. it would've been better off leaving the dress uniforms at home and feeling that space with the weapons, the munition, the gasoline to do that. then you enter the tags all the way to keith. i'm sorry. who told you about the dress uniforms? oh, that's widely reported. i've published on it, you can, you will have to google works is towards life because we, those are the mission relational washington post. so that's, that's absolutely well known. so it the failures russian arms and the initial invasion of ukraine, or, or widely known, the mere fact of that who was attacking keats. which certainly all agree that happened right is proves that he was not merely concerned about the eastern portions of ukraine. you wanted to topple the ukranian government and he wanted to

bring ukraine into what, what he sees as a revitalized soviet sir. i mean, i failed in doubt. i'd say the source, the source is highly suspect, but you said the new york times and washington post that clearly being fed lines from those in pa, now that as a landscape defeat is on the cards every day and the new york times. and we'll get a buzz, we can see somebody saying a softening up of nature, nations to prepare for the defeat of the landscape is forces. you don't see that there's a lot of these forces that you're creating. forces are suffering right now from a lack of a munitions of landscape. famously, when he was offered a ticket out of ukraine by the united states that he didn't want to leave you want to them, you nation. and unfortunately, because of the problems here in the what i see is failures in the united states congress right now is running out of ammunition is running out of air defense, munitions, he's running out of artillery, munitions, all of those are being rationed right now. on the battlefront in ukraine,

i strongly believe has been written on this extensive living started for the past 2 years. that as long as the united states congress and the majority of the members of the united states congress and broke the sound of the house, do support additional funding for ukraine. as long as that house room ukraine will continue to survive as an independent nation. drew calendar 2024. the pigeons never said he didn't want an independent nation. what are the m one abrams tanks? is it a p all question as to why they're not being used more often. i mean, they're claims that the, they on ahmed well against you, avi's on the sides and on the top of the change that tax have been designed to. we're designing the m one tax. all, all modern valdez were designed before one man aerial vehicles were an effective

weapon of war. they're all being modified now to provide additional protection against you would have use of a real i think critical failure of ukrainian arch today is not the young ones. they'd certainly like to have a lot more of them and i believe they will have more of them in years to come with the modification. right. or with the modification against the russian drugs were a guess, i guess whoever's drones, they may be drones are now one of the inescapable factors of the modern battlefield . that's a relatively new development in the past 5 years or so. i don't expect it to go away, but i think is always happens. the tank itself was it was created in reaction to the machine guns so so of their progress in one direction. and it just, it is countered by another, working on the russians and the ukrainians are both showing dramatic increases in their ability to counter unmanned aerial vehicles in, in a number of different ways. but the big problem ukraine varies is using the year,

but it's not you avi's, of which they have sufficient quantities of quality. it's in may and aircraft. it's in the ability to provide air superiority or the value and, and until they get that. and some of the, some of the sixteens will be coming on board, both european and us f sixteens will be coming on board in 2024. i don't expect those to be decisive on the battlefield, but they're going to help and long term. i'm confident that ukraine can survive as an independent nation again, as long as the west and in particular, the united states continues to find a way to provide it with the arms that needs to point. yeah, i do with pointed by the independent nation page and said denot supply and obviously protect the russian speaking people in the some of ukraine never said he wanted to take over ukraine to as well. i'm sure he was sending tags to game just to wish president salon ski. i happy birthday. but he's actually

a don't real intention for his a lot of ski at all. and one of the less the once again power is that what you're suggesting? no, but he says you can establish your own state and of course some people, the things that landscapes life is being protected by a by rusher in a sense. because as you know, and i want to ask you about that, actually, why does russia just don't take the lensky ad, which clearly they have the capability of doing, but choose not to do so they have tried to repeatedly write in and so far for me. oh them so they haven't, that's about it. no, that's not is they've tried many, many times a dozen times 2 dozen times to take out the landscape that failed to do with the suicide. this information again is this information again coming from the ukranian side. some of it is coming all over is coming from a lot of classified sources. let me be clear, right? although i will take the dress uniforms in the tanks came from a ukraine you'd like for like the opposite of jack came from. that's not true. the

record, the paper, it's completely sure. no, it took me paper united states but, but i guess you don't have to believe me, right. you, you asked me to come on. i'm happy to talk to but but, but so um and as, as for the future of, of ukraine under, so if your time, the russian domination, you might look to the soviet domination of poland checklist of lucky, uh, east germany. right. and as a why do these countries the united states is not forcing countries to join nato. they wish to join, you know, because they have lived under soviet domination. we don't, we hoping that the american window to gain take over vietnam. i'm not sure that historical powell quite works to it. i'm pretty sure the americans learned about to take over cuba, like the soviet union once invaded. poland let's, let's get on to sanctions then. um, in your, in your, in china, even zelinski is kind of funding the russian war machine now with buying energy

from the cause. it was gas to pay dues for the energy coming through ukraine for a gas transit prius. is it the end of the united states sanctions policy as a method of war fat in that the sanctions of left to russia with a growing economy. and of course, that you are a p in western europe and in dire straits economically. so i would say that western europe is in dire straits economically. britain certainly is bryce. it hasn't helped it, but the you continues to germany, a good grow the industrialized, not as good as the united states. but, but so russia has demonstrated some remarkable resilience in the face of the american sections, the western sanctions. i think the civilian your craft industry. so they may be asian industry is probably the place where russia is having the hardest time adapting to the sanctions. and i believe that sections tend to be

a very slow and imprecise tool of international politics. there's some emotional and psychological benefits to them, but russia has shown more resilience side expected. of course, a big bunch of that is that the russian people are used to suffer. and one of the indicators i'm looking at most closely is the russian dismay. at the extraordinary law since they've suffered in ukraine, and the so called mother's protests against the tally tutoring regime of food. so we've had $12.00 and a half to get scrutiny so far, but it's clearly not to tell a terrier. and if they're a purchase on the streets, you really, we don't know that we don't know the kinds really just and that's just fine. was the broadcast is yeah, with the security know broad 0 position bodies in as soon as gives you great. and that will be in band and the newspapers shut down, but just create

a new york magazine you road. i believe there's no chance for any kind of negotiated settlement until putin finds the trump is not going to be the next president of the usa. you said in december, what do you think now then? so there is going to be a negotiated settlement when trump wins in 2024. the choice is president. trump is re elected in 2024. i think that that would have dire implications for ukraine's independence, as well as for nato as a whole. so according to john bolton want to president drops, nash. he's been on this, you god bless a john said that the trump of what, what, what to do and plans to full the united states out of nato. in the 2nd term, if he gets a 2nd term, i think that that would have arrest the consequences for global peace and security . and in fact, the reason national defense authorization act try to prevent any future president from withdrawing the united states from nato. without explicit side of the approval,

whether that particular part of the n d a is constitutional or not, is, is an open question. i am deeply concerned that ukraine will not stand as an independent country. if donald trump is re elected to the presidency of the united states, they're to see what the american people decide the doesn't go prevents, as you all know. thank you. thank you. and that's it for the show continued condolences, those bereaved by the u. k. u. s. back slaughtering gaza will be back with a brand new episode on saturday until 9. keep in touch with my social media. if it's not send, send me your country and had to have channel going. undergoing tv on normal don't come to us and you and all the episodes, i'm going undergrad suicide the

and welcome to try stuff for here. we discuss the wheel in the our case cru takes cover while reporting from the scene of the premium that's showing in don baths, where at least 3 people were killed. and one injured anger boils over in the us over the killing of 3 soldiers by drones in the middle east. but president biden doesn't explain what he'll do about it. the number of attacks on american leg courses in the region has passed. 150 defends october loose attacks the direct message to the administration of all of the level of anger in the middle east towards the u. s. policy. and the us president also failed to explain how he's going to deal with a tech.