the, the hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . nato is ukraine. narrative is like the passage of seasons ever changing. we witness, as long as it takes to today's, just to avoid defeat the by the administration knows victory over russia is a dead end. now it is satisfied with the slow destruction of ukraine, the process of being ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, wilmer leon in washington. he's a political scientists author and a radio talk show host in florida. we have craig positive drug to he is co hosted the convo couch. and here in moscow, everyone's favorite. we have dmitri bobby, and she is a political analyst and editor. it interests me, internet media project,

right. tell them in cross up roles and the fact that music and jump any time you want. and i always appreciate boss. so let me go to you 1st in florida, you and you got up early for this program so that sort of that are guessing washington, appreciate it very much. in my introduction, we discussed, you know, the change in narrative to as long as it takes and i'll use my words, interpreting the administration to now to is to avoid him defeat. so if they're avoiding defeat, that means they can't win. so why did they continue? can you explain the logic to me? oh, and by the way, it's going to be very expensive to continue this senseless war that never should have started in the 1st place. go ahead as well. when you talk about it's gonna be very expensive. i think that gives you the answer right there. it's who's going to make the money. it might be a loss for ukraine because they've lost so many soldiers and so many wives, what a half a 1000000. now, i think the average age of the front of mind, so we'll get 43 years old, but who really one and that is the deep state,

the military industrial complex. sure, this wasn't as long of a war when it ends as afghanistan was. but it's going to be a high intensity. what were a lot of hardware went over very quickly. so, you know, i think that somebody did with in this whole situation and it was the military industrial complex. and they will just simply just do what they normally do. just use the main stream media to kind of give you a little, you know, uh condolences to you know, or ukraine who far brush or the big, bad, bare and stuff. but peter, i do think that they're holding that the bank upside down and, and jostling for just one more coin thing. they can get one more pay. they added this whole thing by tying it to border security. so, you know, look for the united states and so press hard on this even though it's not a popular one with a lot of people i still greet, you'll see the bite in the ministration. get one or pay day out of this, which just tells you who won the military, industrial, complex, wilma, and, and watch. and then, i mean, obviously this is tied to the election cycle. i mean,

there's a, a, a flurry of articles to actually kind of build this. and if the, if the advent of a trump for president, so what does it come to pass? they want to make sure that they can get to, you know, more than one year than they like i maybe 4 or 5 years on an annual basis. i mean they, they really want to build it into the budget here, which i doubt to be able to succeed in doing. but it, it's really just for binding to avoid humiliation at the polls. not that he has a doesn't have other problems to worry about. go ahead and washington, well, if joe bide is able to make it that far, that that's still up in the air yet to be determined. there's also the rush of phobia and aspect of this, i think by continuing this conflict that enables the democrats to still talk about donald trump is vladimir putin, his best friend. and in, in the, in, in the west, of course we, we can't have anything along those lines. and interestingly enough,

up for the russian foreign secretary lab rob, uh, it was reported in test, was talking about where the u. s. provided weapons are showing up outside of ukraine. they have, they are showing up in finland, they're showing up in sweden. they are showing up in gaza. and this is a conversation that this is not a new revelation because there were discussions a months ago that a lot of these weapons were showing up in african countries. so this really seems to be a money laundering scheme. it seems to be a weapons dissemination, steam, and i think also there are a number of weapons manufacturers. it, we're really angry at joe biden, for getting out of afghanistan, what they consider to be early. so this is a way of continuing to funnel money uh to those weapons manufacturers such as lockheed martin and boeing and raytheon who were making money hand over fist in

afghanistan. this is a way of continuing to uh to, to keep that gravy train running. it will demo and we've heard from our 1st to guess here. i mean, there's nothing i disagree with what you're saying. but the problem with it, with all of this is what about the ukrainians? i mean the calculations that we've heard here have nothing to do with the wellbeing of that country and it's people demo as well. i think it was, they have nothing to do with the well being or america else, or in general, people usually they feel categories. and let's see what kind of forms we've had a problem. angel. general secretary, you have a stock number, you know, these we, if you were to by the, by the us, i did say it was trying the why the town reaction to see school. i was all right. well uh mr. stone is the handle major. she doesn't have anything to do with dialogue, always try and it's a different area. right?

but keys are most concerned. you know. so, i mean i, it really is a, with both of our, this, that there is a lot of private interest in both. most people for me, you brokerage, how does bureaucracy work in the west right now? as, uh, he does not reduce the results. you know, the english know to save money will save bias or make people's lives better. they used to make an impression that you make an alpha for us, right? and the 2nd, you know, with the, you will never say anything for each plane. correct is repeat the same price. and you always say, you know, you get your price, salary, things may be going through the dogs. you know what you really do, what you want to be paid. you know, you will keep your call. so we have the same uh, the same all blade years things from them. you know, they compare rush hallmarks,

you know, uh by the bad mazda of the same goals. and do you know of the images you did to the, i'm sure you heard this now. good from nikki haley. they'd be on october 7th. what happened because it was hooton's birthday. i mean, wow, this is the extent of their, of their intellectual proud this here. let's go back to our guessing and i'm sorry instead of let's go to craig and in florida here, you know, i'm deem a brought up democracy. well i, as we speak right now, hungry is in the dock as it were, with the e. u intake. basically want to take away its voting rights because it doesn't want to waste money on ukraine and essentially, and then the financial times had an expensive article on it. this is, this is blackmail. so they will, they, they want to subvert democracy within the e. u to pro pop up a pretend democracy in ukraine. can you explain that to me? yeah, i have a hard time explaining that, but anything is possible at this point, i mean nancy pelosi over here in the united states. one is saying that those 2 were

calling for a cease fire taking a message that word from vladimir pool for crying out loud. you know what i think those in ukraine who play the boy even game wrong, will not only that war, but they'll lose their head. it's like the old kissinger saying, right to be america's enemies. dangerous, but to me, americans. right. and it is fatal. but you know, i think that eventually you'll see a lot of people with the ukraine, whoever's less than ukraine, whoever does web standing that is will eventually pivot to the reconstruction of what's left over there. you can already see black rock and vanguard, putting their steak in the ground and grabbing a property left then right. but what i'm interested is right now is what happens with the russian federation. you know, how much slack are they going to give the new ukranian government, whatever that is, and whoever that is, when they come into power, it seems that when biting got back into power, you saw the whole language, the whole rhetoric of the russian federation, kind of changed even a lot of rob saying, i think it will be not beneficial for you to get involved in the black sea. so i'm

looking at what's going to happen as far as the russian federation. i know they don't like to participate so much and regime change and you know, like the in the united states as a religion. but i think you'll see the russians get a little bit more involved with the permit that's coming. yeah. but how do you pronounce that you bring up such a good point? you know, and it's something that i tried re, a reminder viewers. we look at, essentially in this program, we look at western narratives about this conflict in ukraine. and let me go to wilmer, a in washington, there's one element of the, of the conversation that is never added as a well, what are the russians actually think about all of this? it's never considered whatsoever. the reason why i'm mentioning it is that, yeah, pasta is right. russia will have a very strong interest in who is in ruling in care of and ruling as opposed to governing. because it's, you know, what we have right now is we're going to have what i think before that happens to be a civil war inside of ukraine playing the blame game. go ahead in washington as well

. i don't think it's as much of a concern of, of the who as it is in terms of the what and what i mean by the, what is the audiology, that those that will wind up coming into power are presenting. because if we go back to russia's stated interest in this entire conflict in getting involved in the conflict in the 1st place, it was, it was to the knots of fi ukraine. and to see to it that nato, that ukraine does not become a, a, a part of nato. so now what i think is, is i think those issues are still at the top of the, of the list. and so i don't think it's a matter of who as it is a matter of what is being articulated and which, which is interesting when you also, i think when you add the finland in nato aspect of this,

with the border between finland and, and in the long border between finland and russia and finland now becoming the new proxy here. and hopefully, you know, what we're seeing play as played out in ukraine will not make his way there the united states. well, i then try to start it somewhere else. well, i think the fans, you know, maybe they're not too many people alive, but the, the, it's the, or didn't to their memory the last time they took on the russians and it didn't work out very well for them. you know? yeah, but it's not work. it out in ukraine, either the united states and as i'm doing that can not disagree. there is no learning curve here, but the most, this is very convenient for nato because rush, it will still be the enemy for them no matter what happens, whatever outcome there isn't ukraine to oh, well, you're right and well, it was made arrangements. you reminded us, you know, the to needs all the special needs are 3, because it's all in russia. dns are fine, right. and do, did advise you not only to prevent your brain from department,

as they told me about the laws that you re was be common and they don't ma'am, but do you have to know that's why force has to be used, you know, get the newspapers was to use because there was already a training in science which was in fact a range of community ways. all the, all the works. there were several occasions where americans have what they bought, premium samples, with all of those codes. what if he's not going to be your base domain? so roger based, you have to get a goal because uh okay, what would be common ended all the same story about this. we didn't check the lesson, breast never goes over or manage exercises all the baltic, sea unit air, you know, all the codes. but roger wasn't the spanish, so we just bought between 2014. so okay,

they might have to jump in here. we have to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the plane, stay with our team, the the, the, the

1937 militaristic, japan started a full scale invasion of china. the invading army was rapidly advancing towards the capital of the republic of china. the dies, the city of not seeing, leaving behind the burned down villages and thousands of the dead. on december 13th, the japanese occupied on z and states the real massacre. for 6 weeks, the invaders exterminated the civilian population. they carried out mass executions, rates, women, and were engaged, been merciless robbery. ruthless competition of 2 officers of the imperial army, goes to the ocoee my guide and su yoshi no doubt gained particular notoriety. they

competed with each other as though who would be the fastest decalle, $100.00 chinese with us. or this monstrous competition was widely rewarded in the japanese press. to the non being massacre claims the lives of about 300000 people and became one of the largest crimes against humanity in the world history. after world war 2, many far disappearance of the address of the phase trial. however, the commander of the japanese army in the non seeing operation, freezes, yasu eco, a socket was able to escape the responsibility due to the interference of the american administration on the welcome back across stock where all things are considered. i'm peter a little strange, but discussing ukraine, the

hills go back to pasta in florida. i really the, the new strategy and it looks like now at least up until the election and maybe the rise of the rationale for the additional age. 61000000000 or so is new security commitments in lieu of wanting to take we take los territory i'm, i'm not really sure how that's supposed to work. i think it's kind of a substitute and it's an excuse to give money here because essentially it's so easy to create. i'm going to give up these territories if it's not going to retake the territories and why doesn't they make peace? what is an a ask for a ceasefire? i mean, you know, these are these new security arrangements which were done to the u. k. did it last month, the us as replicating it right now. that doesn't solve russia security problems. i don't know what's in their minds, it just perpetuating the same problem and that problem ended up in an arm conflict

positive to well, i think that the russian federation understands that the ukrainians and not really wanting to show over here. they're just listening to whatever the west says, so they just go along with it as long as they can. the peter s or to point out as the, you know, d, my and doctor when we were talking about the stakes and what was going on, let's not also forget that there were over a dozen bio labs in which the russian federation took out immediately as the action started, so that also raises the whole space here as far as how, how the russians will react and moving forward. but also to when it comes to the main stream media in the united states, they're not talking about ukraine. i mean, never. and that's why i continue to say that i think that they will eventually get this money over here because so many people in the united states, especially the populace, right? are so much concentrated on board or on the border itself. so they didn't find a way to wrap up some more money, some wandering cash with the border, and eventually these republicans will, for why because the me, because the populace in the, in the mainstream media, they don't give

a damn. as far as you know, what goes on and ukraine, they're oblivious to it. and so with the people. so that's why i think we'll find more funding going uh, you know, to ukraine and that's going to happen. so i mean, as far as strategy is concerned, i don't think you can make any sense of it whatsoever. i mean, the russians are just waiting this out. we knew technically from the beginning they had no chance of losing. but i think we have to define what winning and losing is to really get a grasp on what's going on over there. yeah, well that's why i said i did this, i'm calling this pro a program avoiding defeat. i mean, what they did, they want to starve off to feed because they know victory is illusory. but that's not solving the problem there. wilmer with them, if i go back to you in, in washington, i've looked at some of these border negotiations. i don't know what these republicans are talking about, that those are not real negotiations. that is just a way to get money and money laundering through because it's not, that's not border control. i don't know how you feel about this. and the gratian

issue here, but these republicans, this they're, they're essentially lying to their public saying that as a deal in play. and then blaming it on trump for goodness, like he's not even in office here. i tend to agree with what processing is that they're going to find a way to get the money, even if they have to fudge the board or go ahead in washington. well, the border discussion has never really been an honest discussion in terms of trying to solve the problem. have any of these issues ever been, honestly, just got since a game. so because, for example, a lot of the data that they're using in terms of all, now there is this incredible increase in immigrants crossing the border. well, they don't talk about the fact that the manner of, of, of, of, of border protection and arrest has the, they've changed their processes. and since they've changed their processes, that has resulted in more arrests, that doesn't necessarily mean that there is just a dramatic influx of people try and across the border. they don't talk about us

policy in latin america. they don't talk about the impact that american economic policy is had on decimating the economies. i say in these countries which are forcing people, they're not talking about us policy in haiti, which is forcing haitians to try to find a better life. so it's never been an honest discussion, it's never been a serious problem. this is really just more blather and blabber for the sake of the election. and they're playing into the, uh, what trump, the, one of the cards, the trumpets playing in the last selection, anti immigrants sent them in racism and, and, and xenophobia fear of the other. so whether it's rush or fall be, or whether it's the whole be a, as it relates to just a whole cadre of immigrants trying to come into the united states. it doesn't really matter or,

or are maybe we're just not worthwhile. or maybe we can talk on some common ground, it's just another way to spend taxpayers money. it just another way to print money and someone somewhere will claim a political victory. and i have, i have an idea, go ahead with this homeless, this is on it is on a historic right. seems to be cute, not did states other important. there are a number of things that could, that were us tax payer dollars could be spent that would benefit americans as opposed to lockheed martin, boeing and raytheon. well, those are they all, you know, they base is, you know, the idea of clothes only when we don't have money for that. but there's so many for that. there's not, you know, that's what we, they always say. but there's always money for, for israel, ukraine, etc. dma again, you know, when i look at the, the, the coverage from so called the think tanks that don't seem to think very much is that they don't take into account rushes ames and they've already been aired on this program here. the knots vacation in demilitarization. that's the vector which

they have to understand how russia will react to anything that any initiative that the u. s. is a ukraine's primary back, or we'll push demo. you're absolutely right. that's the right of all these things. so when we, they will go like that's who you are. absolutely right. and then the student to moment, oh, you know, you mentioned category or this number 6. i mean, it would be the financial times is, is our very best president. it's b, b o, c o that uh, we will thank you for right. you have good areas because you don't submit. we will make up for nation. we will degrade your tv stand, this will crash your economy. you know, basically essentially a dma essentially what they want to do is they want hungry to look like ukraine. i thought you know that it was supposed to be the demonstration of it back where you claim would look like the you,

but no way want to turn hungry into your credit and keep going the amount. exactly . i mean, we have been told that the u gary g believe instead of this always populates. and then if you are a member of the you, you're going to use that you would leave the diesel lifestyle, you know, and now we see, you know, you use something very different. you know, these are people who i, if you for doing something wrong with disagree, your names, those will go, don't write. again, i just was told them that, you know, we talked about us money for, for greenforest community for this is just all of it said that it was a very good deal, you know, invest just in your pre and all was why? because i cool. we have been able to destroy and degrade the russian army substantially. oh, nice. you know, you spend hundreds of thousands of lives of degree just, you know that you, russians, and now you sell it to the american probably go. so this isn't going to be stupid because as the, some people seem to think that students are always smart no,

soon as you've got to be very stupid. and again, you know, how does this bureaucracy work? just don't say the wrong things haven't would be they, they think your mobile friendly, warm, installed use or otherwise you can say very simple things you can say. and it's nice that to be cute, sort of people. it's nice as well. going to be on hold and get yourself. i want to make some for so, i mean it's, it's a real oh, you know, india, those you do in, in this and misery ration here past that. it isn't really incredible. it is simply incredible. to me. we have the you meeting there, they're going to try, they're going to put a lot of pressure on a picture. owed about him to go along with him. i don't think he will in the end. but at the same time, in the mean, this gathering of, of, uh, uh, countries in the u, they're talking about a, a long term of 50000000000 euro program for ukraine. what about

the, the continents? farmers, haven't they noticed what kind of move they're in all, all across the continent, in france and germany in poland, etc. but they have money for ukraine. they shows you how disconnected these people are as well. it also tells you, you know, how much you know, how crazy they also think that they're going to get away with this at the end of the day. but i mean, nobody's ever held accountable. you know, so they figure they just, you know, we have a saying over here at the united states of amnesia, right? they'll just eventually forget it. no it onto something else. so i think in europe they think they're going to do the same thing. maybe they'll start in another world war or something, get taiwan involved, and people automatically forget about what's going on. you know, it's crazy peter. the other day, i was watching the new hampshire primary. and there was a, nikki haley supporter that said that he, he was supporting nikki haley. he voted for binding because he refused to vote for trump in the last election. he's supporting mickey haley because mickey,

he's one of our biggest issues is the ukraine war. i mean it's, they're demented over here. so i think the people in europe, the leaders in europe, the ruling class think they can do the same thing they do in the united states. just pivot to something else. and they'll forget about what happened yesterday. and they'll concentrate and what's in front of them tomorrow. wilmer, what kind of um, role do you think ukraine will play in the upcoming election? obviously, we're all aware of what's going on in gaza, and unfortunately that's not going to be resolved any time soon. the, the share mystery of watching anything, and we're all culpable. we're all witnesses. it's really degrading morally for all of us. but we're talking about you crate on this program despite and just want to pivot or does he want to just pay up and hopefully like processing no one's really going to notice. go ahead in washington. yes, i think that ukraine is going to play a smaller in smaller role as it relates to the narrative of the 2024 election

because it is a lost cause. yeah. but it's vitamins war isn't it? i mean, then you know, what does he have to own up to it? go ahead to go. well, we're going to see really that's a very good point because i think the donald trump, once he gets on the camp, once he gets out of court and gets on the campaign trail, he will start to raise the issue of ukraine because it is trumps. because it is by his war and it is a loss and he will be able to point to that. and so you see, i could have solve this in a day. i could have picked up the telephone, talk to latin mir boot, and then we could to solve the whole problem. but now the united states has wasted all of this money, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. it will be very interesting to see whether or not the main stream picks up on that trump narrative and, and shift its focus away. well, wouldn't you know where, where we cross it even the, to what's happening,

what was happening and what we have now is blinking, saying, you know, rush is already lost, but if they've already lost, why do you need 60000000 dollars? i'm sorry to ask these kind of questions. the gentleman, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guess in florida, washington, and here in moscow. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here . are the see you next time. remember process the same wrong just don't have to shape out the application and engagement equals the trails. when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look for common ground, the

a sick, awful lot. go that you got to get better. you go to the hospital. yes. what you need to do to help you, hey, say, i mean would, would you need to lock up the people that are drug addicts, just keep going. cold. turkey is like going through withdrawals, and a lot of these for people to withdraws, giving them money were killed. so you just gotta give him the valve cover right now a while ago as no one. not very good, but truly getting worse and worse every year. as we go, the

full packet studies are killed in a terrorist bombing during the riley. and supposedly in run con, coming up to the phone appointment as to was sentenced to a decade in prison for leaking state secret hazel slipping. honda can forward it to today in a separate correction tape. also this out found bodies packed in black bags, bags tied with plastic sand cups from the front of the facts. there were 25, perhaps 30 or even 40 bodies. a boy some discovery is reported at a northern gauze in school that was previously occupied by the ideas of the ongoing invasion of the palestinian and the.