the are to the wrong spot is our quick cash one down all the new circle all this friday. we will be back off the top of the latest next up the customer. enjoy the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . as many predicted israel's onslaught on gods is triggering a much larger middle east complex. it appears the united states is willing to fight israel's regional enemies. for israel. this is what joe biden's, blank check underwriting. israel actually means the

cross talking palestine on joined by my guess london new new york. he is a legal in media analyst in toronto. we have food that i use. he is a professor of sociology at mount royal university. in calgary and in rome, we crossed to romano roberto. she is an author and managing editor of the palestine chronicle. right press up rules and the fact that means it can jump any time you want and i always appreciate it. let's go to the good professor 1st in toronto. i'm calling this program biden's blank, blank check. and that's essentially what we see coming from the administration. we have these hemming and hawing, you know, negotiations with friends can disagree with each other in private. all of this nonsense is verbal, nonsense actions speak louder than words and i see nothing coming out of the by the administration. that is stopping israel's onslaught on, on gaza and possible regional ambitions. there is no red line. they can't cross. go ahead and try to. yeah, thank you for having me look in 1986 when buying was

a member of the us senate committee on foreign relations. he said very bluntly, the israel didn't exist, us would invent it. and he argued at that point he opposed sales to. ready wasn't sales to saudi arabia because then i quote, the saudis could not become agents of us interest in the birds ship in the persian gulf region. it has always viewed israel as in as an investment for us imperial interest in the region. um and, and it, i mean, over it, since, since its founding in 1948, the united states has given israel anywhere between i've seen estimates of a $130000000000.00. i've seen people account for inflation saying it's closer to $300000000000.00. now the majority of that money goes to weapons and, and weapons sales. by the way, these really have to spend the majority of that funding to buy weapons from american defense firms and defense contractors. and so it's basically when he says

has been investment he's, that's the only moment he's telling the truth. he sees it as the largest u. s. military base in the world. and, and as, as a base that serves us imperial, interested in the region. and in the us has no red lines itself over what israel does, because the us will pursue its goals in the region, regardless of how much death and destruction that causes to the people of the region. and this is really critical to understate you know, uh, underlying that, that the, the us to use israel as an imperial outpost. that's is, that's the reason for its support. it has nothing to do with democratic values. it has nothing to do with respect for human rights or international law. there's nothing to do with these talking points that saturate our political discourse well in this part where professor it is, it seems quite obvious to me that you are a regular viewer of this program. because that's what i'd say every single week here. let me go to a line. oh,

well i know in light of what we heard from our guest in toronto. um, i don't want to be too per box and of here, but it seems to be that buying just put a genocide on the ballot as well. which so fascinating to me is how the narrative is changing every single day. and how there is, is up to it in counter programming from a variety of very, very popular and very important platforms which give a different version of this. and what's also weird learning is that they remember where we were here october, the 7th. the narrative of this um, as max blumenthal causes the texas chainsaw massacre story, which has been refuted, i hearken back to one of the greatest lines in american cinema from the man who shot liberty balance. when the legend becomes fact, print the legit and what we're seeing is, is this evolving yeah. narrative which is brings into mythology,

which is now being a budget by reality. and americans have really they, they understand that ukraine the because they hate russia and russo phobia. yeah. yeah, yeah, a lot of americans are so you know, explain this again. how is real or this particular area, the world is a, is an actual real threat and watch that story again. and how has the narrative of october the 7th kind of dwindled? do you see what's happening here? it's like watching birds and memories and you're seeing huge movements of, of themes change. and when it drifts off completely, americans, if they say, wait a minute, you let us on to something we don't understand and buying is a showing that people are following along to the music that everybody's on. well, what worked with us? yeah, but the day that the trick there is never to give context, and that's where these people, when did the, the estimate and the, the american administration,

these relays and american allies. i don't want to contextualize anything. and it's really remarkable when you will and when you allow people like our on our guest on our program to give the context it is. so i opening for so many people. i didn't know that. okay. i i actually it's romana i was actually in the or after october 7th i was on a pod cast and very smart guy, really a nice guy. but he didn't even realize that gus was under siege. he didn't know it was being blockaded. see, this is what we have to deal with here. when makes it so difficult to get a what i would say an alternative narrative, but the truth out. go ahead. romano. yes. first of all, of course, there is a lock in from mainstream media to analyze the situation impala and ending the in particular, in general, even prior to october 7. but following october 7, it was very important for the actors involved in this tool for both of the narrative that i agree. it was like

a mess and legend and then towards functional. not only for ease law to carry out genocide and acts as we are seeing now, unfortunately for the $118.00 days in a row, but also to div um do 40 to call justification to the actions of the united states. because now we're seeing, yes, it's true, the united states has in for, in the region. and i totally agree that this is the main reason why the united states has consistently supported as well. so all the year. but what we are witnessing now is that the united states is kind of available to know its own interests in the region. we have never seen so many actors involved, even don't say dr. b, a open the against the united states. and despite all of this, the united states is still alone with is also because of the pro is may not be in

the country, the upcoming elections, and so forth and so on. so of course they needed a validation justification and the tribes to push the clock back to over 20 years ago. they tried to say it's like $911.00 guys. so this is a war on terror. we are completely justified. well, i think this justification is not working with the current audiences anymore in the west and in the us either. well, if you go back to the professor in toronto, i mean, yeah, i absolutely expect is conflict to expand and 11 on is the, the front and center here. these railings will drag the american. we have to keep it, you know, who wags, who wags the dogs here. this is the problem here because i don't think the buying ministration wants to have the conflict expanding to 11. i'm, but that is real certainly does, since it's not winning in gaza. so if it's not winning and gossip, it will expand the conflict. and of course you have these ridiculous central

senators, i won't even mention on my program here that they want to knock in, you know, give it to a ram, say exactly what is real, wants the united states to do go head and toronto. yeah. and it's, and yahoo has one to be us to take on their end for a very long time. have us, i don't believe us or even want and all that. we're actually the, or the, even some political sort of groups in israel that don't want that all that word but, but israel as a whole, has moved so far to, to, to the right that they do want like that. there are, there are elements that certainly want that all that were. let me, let me pull out a quote from biting himself recently when asked about the attack on the us based in, in jordan and be a reporter ask them, you know, do you hold the around responsible for this? and this was his response and i quote yes and i quote in the sense that they're supplying the weapons to the so that, okay, so you're in the meeting, the us is responsible for the genocide of the palestinian because you're supplying israel with the weapons to do that so you are in the thick of it,

you said aircraft carriers immediately to predict israel as they carried out the genocidal operation. high ranking military officials are meeting with these really military military officials on a consistent basis. of course, the people in the region are making the right read that the us is actively involved in this and are responsible for all the acts of genocide that these ratings are committing. there are just as responsible as these released. and this is the possibility of a wider regional war, is still on the table. i've said this before, it doesn't, it's not every war starts because everybody agrees we what just started a war, you know, war can start and everybody's saying we don't want to war and then it still happens anyway. i'm not predicting it will happen. i'm not saying that it will for sure happen, but it's still a very real possibility on the table. yeah, but, i mean, i think we can, you know, we can extend that argument, lionel. i mean, if, if netanyahu, who wants to save his own political skin here, it's in, it's in his interest to expand the complex evey will do,

there's not much spite and can do to stop that. you know, i'm, i was explaining to somebody what i think i tried to do and with all due respect to hold. no one takes offense at this. i feel almost like a special ed teacher who understands that my class room, namely the american people. my fellow americans have learning disabilities. they live under a 19, uh 60 seventy's delusion that all of our ammunition is just comes out of nowhere that we can beat any, any country at any time. and the people like has below, oh, how much the hose these odds are. all of these are primitive spears throwing tribal on whichever risk you have. and why look the line before we go to the break, all the groups you just mentioned there they are the result of american involvement in the middle east. that'd be as an exec, they've, they're all reactions to american imperial interest in the middle east,

supported by israel. that is the facts here never presented in mainstream media. all right, i have to jump in here folks, we have to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on power assign, stay with our team, the 6 off, or what go that you got to get better. you go to the hospital. yes. what you need to do to help you, hey, say, i mean what, what do you need to walk up the people that are drug addicts because going cold turkey is like going through withdrawals and a lot of these 12 school to withdrawal, giving them money will kill them so you just gotta give him to

the government. i don't want go as no one. not very good, but surely getting worse and worse every year. it has to be done. the the, the beauty of a story maybe over a go on the board. that's where i can use vows. originally, new spots, and i see you blue menu on the show right here. it's a general facility based screen. yes. would you like me to ski photos that anybody's industry to look at the building and grab it?

of steel, bundle ski at the at the site. the gold at the smith looked at the new. yeah, that is, that said it was a mis leveled and everything is as see, it says ready this form with year of experience of but that will say in nearest the blue books and you for the 90 percent of the news happens or somebody sees that you would say, because you have to just catch the senior the welcome ex, across software, all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you were discussing palestine the

okay, let's go back to the in room and another plays in this element in that the main stream media and governments are, are, are peddling all the time is the, the day after i find it. so insulting, what do we deal with? what's going on today and worry about that later. and of course, the day after never includes any kind of a active role on the part of the palestinians are just objectified, like they've been for the last 75 years. so i mean it, for as far as i'm concerned, this is just another a distraction against what's going on in gaza, which is a genocide. go ahead in room. seduce me on the one hand, it has a lot to do with the, the new version. i have that we were speaking about awhile ago. yes. because of course there is this idea that there is no right of self determination. that these people are suited to humanize that we do not have to agree on the right of self

determination. so we can completely, as a colonial power and intuitive power decide on the fate of millions of people. but the problem here is go to. so that is look, if you know, trying to speak about the day after, but not only east east, around the west, in general, the united states, the european countries, speaking about a 2 state solution and a d minutes arrived speed. but they have no idea even on how to end these work. these are the 2 now. so we are speaking about something that is completely, you know, out of the real priorities of the actual priority of here is what it does not to know how to end the work because of insurance pressures. because and when it's ready, defense minister, you often access these is an essential threat. in this case, i think it's secure each other that is whether or not simply stop the war award

that gives you, rosie and the officers say i'm leaving in this region. and i am, you know, the middle of invincibility, even from the ministry point of view, political point of view has completely east come into the integers now. so is that it does not know how to put it on its own existence in the region. and, you know, speaking about the future of cause of a, in this moment without you for being such a powerful actor, like the policy and resistance, which is now currently leading a 40 minutes journey. but also politically, as particularly at, we're seeing if, even if the negotiations undergoing. and we're seeing that the last award is for, with, you know, in the policy number existence, hands, this means something. and despite the fact that you know, the west seems not to be aware of it. like you actually did when paul, to deal with these we already for, for yeah they,

they live in this fanciful unicorn world. it's, it's really exhausting covering it. i mean, i do, this is what i do for a living, but i believe that's what that's exhausting and age is me here. let's go back to the professor in toronto. you know, we just, romano is talking about the x a central threat to israel. i think it's a good point, but i think we can be more refined in the a b, there's an x, a central type design is them in the, in design is by the all what g that we've seen in getting worse and more worth more and more radical over the decades, particularly under the present, a government here that is under threats. okay. and, and it doesn't know how to move forward, okay. it has no, dear control. it we, all the reaction do with only with violence because it only believes in deterrence . well, if you're deterrence is in tatters, then you are even more dangerous. that's what i worry about. go ahead and toronto. absolutely. let me just very, very quickly say that the real, existential for right now is sort of house being and people who are you? good. yeah, and yeah, yeah, yeah, right. okay,

but i got that it got it. yeah. whatever. yeah, i know people agree, but i just want to make that clear. sure. and. and just so scientism is a political ideology that was always going to go down the path of, of using violence it's, it's a very simple equation. i won't get into the academic complexities of it. people palestinians lived on the land. zionism was a project that said, well, we weren't different people that live on the land, so we have to remove those people. fortunately off the land because they will never just leave their land. who does? nobody does, nobody just says all i'm going to leave my home with so, so it was violence from the 19 early parts of the 19 hundreds and, and that violence continues the 20th century into the 21st century minus was inevitably going to get more and more extreme and, and so this genocidal operation is not the 1st 1948 was the 1st mass explosion of the palestinians and we have the housing is always called the ongoing but not to buy machines. catastrophe. and we're seeing this next phase of mass exposure and happening right now. but it's, it was never going to look at it. of course it has produced and it is producing

right now completely devastating consequences that it will take palestinians generation of the hill. but it was never going to actually succeed because palestinians, this is their home and they're never going to leave it. we can share the homelands, we can make it both of our homelands. i've, i've, you know, i've, i've made this very clear and that in other, in other writing, well, i know what are the, what a radical i yeah. what a radical idea. my good. have any rights for everyone. wow. that's really, you know, that's radical thinking. line all in the same line of thinking here is that i, i don't know if you heard because it was in the last new cycle that camella harris had some kind of election event. and i don't know why anyone in their right mind would go to such an event, but we'll leave that aside. but to women in his jobs were turned away. so what, what's going on with the, the, the liberal, tolerant west. ok. i mean, it's just absolutely disgusting. this kind of behavior line. oh, wait. oh it's funny. again, i always represent this i'm, it's like i'm

a traveler in time. i'm dealing with the people here in my country who i have no idea of what's going on. and i'm trying my best to, to tell them please, for the love of god. listen to what's going on right now. you know, years ago, i never forget. there was a, an instance where i think it was karen hughes or somebody from the, from the george bush administration. and she was talking to some, some very wealthy saudi arabian women who wore veils. and she said one day, you know, one day i'm going to have you be able to walk without that video and drive if you one. and this woman stood up, she says, i have 12 drivers would use all the other teresa this stuff. and i'll never forget the idea that we are still intellectually landlocked in a time where if i went to times square, which is about 5 blocks from me now, and i said, here's a $1000.00. can anybody even remotely approximate what zionism

means? what is it you e? i'm embarrassed to say people would say i have no idea what you're talking about because we think that there is this place called israel. that is always attacked by these people. call the terrorists who want them obliterated. and if you want to speak up about this, you're, then they change the, the dynamic, and you're an energy semite. you turn it. and right now on college campuses, people who just merely want to express an idea at of all things there's this marketplace are free ideas. they're expelled or can be submitted, but they can be, it can be racist and, and promote di icebox. that's a different story. and i am living in this intellectual field and a and a talking deal was like this, this refreshing always is like, i'm not alone. somebody understands what's going on here. i swear,

do i want to desert island, the, or my country? yeah. well the, that, that is, that will, that really destroys the lived any kind of moral legitimacy the united states has in the world moving forward. a ramona, i think that you know what we've seen, you know, the system. it's just a systematic rape story. we've seen the unrestored, but since again, slight of hand change the topic change to the topic. but i think anthony, blinking, i can imagine him in an orange jumpsuit. it is yes. like it's really incredible to read these mainstream reports about or the what they call the atrocities on october 7. and then there's always a line towards the end of the arctic was say no further evidence was provided even we'd be and was tory. so why are you lead a, we pads, piece of news if you have no evidence and you admitted to that. and then there is, you know, the, the idea of these mainstream and media with, you know,

invincible in its pursuing of the, to us. but we have seen time and again throughout history, how the tooth was, constantly money collated what i am with nice being here. and now if that's the new generation bill, it gives me some whole belief, etc. and there is a, you know, they're switching to something else the, you know, the police say of the house or i do not seem to work so well with the new generations. they opened 6 tall uh from you know, one gets ready with me and then they see something else. and they're curious about it. and we seem to have time to ration, you know, the day after the scene for campaign from zara. the, you know, the, the past and branding the giant, and they went physically to the stores and say, you cannot do this. so this innovation seems less aware less, you know, sense the bonus um, i took to the, the big tax of the house bar. and despite the fact that is what it is so desperate,

and that's we reported with the policy and chronicle, they're actually buying artificial intelligence system to try to direct the debate on social media. but, and despite the fact that we know that there is an o c, so basically censorship with some social media, especially with the mess up pack form, which is the biggest social media platform. but despite all of this, this is not how social media work. and the or accusations and allegations do not seem to registered with the new generation. and it happened in the past professor if you're seeing that change of consciousness and generations because, you know, i think of a, the number of times it, israel is mode. the grass mowed the lawn as it were. but in this time around there is so much more awareness, youtube and things like this is really quite extraordinary. during all of this strategy, that is the only little sliver of hope that i see that people are interested in

what's going on. go ahead, professor. yeah, i agree, i've said this before, genocide has consequences. people don't just forget about a man, a man said the perfect word already. yeah, and you said a perfect word earlier, fanciful. the americans and his relays have this fanciful idea that a year after this operation ends, people are going to move on. this is, this is entirely false. people will never forget about this. there are that people's political consciousness of, of the world of politics, of, of the, over their place in history and, and in the activism is being shaped in this moment. and the consequences of that will be felt far and wide for a long time to them. hopefully, uh to, to advance more freedom and liberation for more people are all, and you know, that really can end on this note here. but i, i was thinking and use what you said their professor years from now people will ask you, what did you do? what did you think, and what did you know? and that will haunt a lot of people and i,

and i'm really glad that i have i like everyone can see my stripes on my shoulder. and i take a lot of blackboard, lady and gentlemen, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest in toronto, new york, and in rome. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time, remember across the rules, the russian states never as one of the most sense community best of all sense and up the in the system must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union,

the kremlin machine the state on the rush to day a s r t. suppose next, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services for the question, did you say even closer to the less we less that's what happened on october. the 7 was a deal breaker for it was the slaves revolting against the master. when slaves revolt against the legitimate masters, that is not going to be peaceful and it is going to be violent terrorist here, and that will take care, right. and there is, there is, there, there,

and just surrounding the entire area of the body became ready for us. you know, they knew we're gonna scatter like ship terrible tragedy and terrible revenge because of this land. i know who they mean come off the the on, off know, especially the place over the good this of being prevented. but it seems to be that we don't want, it needs to be what he wants to do, peoples of the land to leave in peace and prosperity. is it possible to have peace in this region ever again? the, the,

the other this decision will affect millions of people also affect more than 30000 why employees were fully committed to the values of the united nations and international humanitarian law documents proving their commitment. as as well to mon, the united nations relief on walks agencies shop down in gauze, up a spoke spot. since we were denied patient exclusively tell, talk to it's role is vital in helping palestinians divide human rights. organizations say often those who end up behind bars have nothing to do with the activities of the military. and sometimes not given, wanted by israel with a cap top right could piece still set to be under consideration by how much we have from palestinians vomiting living.