the, the, the, sometimes a whistle blower does every thing, right? he or she makes a revelation that is clearly in the public interest. the revelation is clearly a violation of the law and then he or she is even more clearly abused by the government. it would be great if the story is always had happy endings. unfortunately, they don't. i'm john to reaku. welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 today we're going to tell you about a bona fide hero. david mcbride is a former british army officer and

a. busy year with the australian special forces who blew the whistle on war crimes committed by australian soldiers in afghanistan. after failing to raise a response through official channels. mcbride shared the information with the australian broadcasting corporation, which then published a series of major reports based on the material, the abc broadcast in 2017, led to a major inquiry that upheld many of mcbride's allegations. despite this, however, abc edits, journalist themselves came under threat of prosecution for their work on the story . mcbride himself was prosecuted for dissemination of official information. we'll tell you more about that in a moment, but let's go back a few years. david mcbride is a seasoned attorney. after studying for a 2nd law degree at oxford university, he joined the british military and eventually moved back to us trail. yeah. where he became a lawyer in the australian defense forces. in that role,

he had 2 tours in afghanistan in 20112013. while on deployment, mcbride became critical of the terms of engagement and other regulations that soldiers were working under which he felt were endangering military personnel for the sake of political imperative is determined elsewhere by 2014 mcbride had compiled a da ca into profound command failings, that's all examples of potential war crimes in afghanistan overlooked. and other soldiers wrongly accused his internal complaints were suppressed and ignored. mcbride's reports also looked at other matters, including the military's handling of sexual abuse allegations. after his use of internal channels had proven ineffective, mcbride gave his report to the police and eventually he contacted journalist at abc . nbc is asking for tiles, documented several incidents of australian soldiers killing on armed civilians,

including children, and questioned the prevalent war culture in the special forces. subsequent to mcbride's disclosures, the behavior of other coalition special forces in afghanistan, also came under sustained investigation. in many ways, mcbride's reports went further than the issues identified by abc, mid prevalent rumors. that australian troops were responsible for war crimes, questionable depths enough, can a stand had led to cause for investigations. in november 2020. the raritan report was finally published utterly vindicating allegations by mcbride and abc judge. paul barrington found evidence of multiple incidents involving australian personnel that had led to $39.00 debts among his recommendations for the investigation of these incidents for possible future criminal charges. we'll talk about what happened next with our guest, david mcbride. david, thank you so much for being with us. thank you,

john for having the it's in the now the honors mine, i want to start with the bad news, david, following your heroic actions following the findings by the raritan inquiry that you told the truth. the australian government still insisted on prosecuting you and a court decision on november 17th found that you could indeed be prosecuted. and the documents that you needed for the government to provide you for your defense could legally be withheld from your team. just as i did in an almost identical situation here in the united states, back in 2012, you will like to plead guilty to try to mitigate the damage. so what is next for you? when will you be sentenced, and do you have any idea what that sentence might be? i'll be say, just in march next year, 12 for bob's 2024. the judge into that is not guarantees but the into that somebody calls an intensive correction or the city getting these

tests for that. that means if i get that and there's not a guarantee. but if, if i do get that, that means i don't actually go behind the prison walls. but your, uh, you still get a sentence of 3 or 4 years. he's on your record as a prison sentence. can you just have to comply with very strange and conditions is a pretty light thing on parole early august. so he will blame it may be probably, it will be quite difficult for me to have a copy of the united states. for example, when i have to fill out on my full might be able to be given to the clever look phase, and i'll have to put down 3 very big ones. there are ways around this diag above and i think i might be on some a few blacklist which already be able to say, actually, because i've got

a little afraid to the united states like you and others. but i like to have to keep these one data till i haven't done that too much. yes. you see there we, there is with said this before, but if the data to be set a guy, there's a, there's a lot of similarities between your case and my case. so yeah, there's a lot of the issues i've used to the, the, the, the universe has got a sense of humor and i think it sometimes does how you 6 sort of sit and we used to feel a little bit. it's a peoria, just say, oh, well, for all john kerry, how he didn't have a to the origin, the faded seat, you know, in the u. s. at least up with wasted a strategy. and we've got a public interest defense, frank funded lo and behold. whether or not the, the us is controlled like a strategy and lawyers is very nice, but it's the idea of a public interest phase does not exist in

a strider anymore either. and uh, i know more had a public you just defense than you'd absolutely tragic. and as you said, i, i didn't even know the id. it was a palm and i should to me a year ago that i would play guilty. there was really no choice. and then the stress and court, right. and the revised, even though everybody was smiling and wearing waves and downs like it was done sort of all british to read it couldn't be there was very little difference between um the security code that you faced in the history based in district of virginia or wherever was yes, where it was really just the style of this church are all, are we address things that normally was there? no public interest to face and the judge said it doesn't matter what it is. it doesn't matter whether it's the chief or the defense for stealing secrets to john

up or taking bribes or pitiful reading with them to senior offices or cannibal is if it does go up. data and jap was quite shocking. but e, as, as, as i examined you and her daughter on the that was it's like a built in prices for the government. even if you were trying to improve something like that was going on. not that it would help you, but we're not even gonna allow you to bring up the eyes and those don't even know, see what it is. and that's the key. that's the key is from the very beginning. they simply will not allow you to defend yourself. so i wanted to ask you, if you could walk us through this mess, as soon as you made your revelations as an independent inquiry began, and it found quickly that you had told the truth and that war crimes had been committed by the military. yet here we are with you being the only person

prosecuted in this case. you said correctly a moment ago that there are disturbing parallels between your case and my case. i always hoped or i hoped over the last 13 years that what happened to me wouldn't happen to somebody else, but you had an almost identical experience. tell us about that. oh, yeah, no, that's wrong. a guy in a few years ago. something like the, the expression, the, the post truth world would cause me to roll my eyes. but unfortunately that it is hard to just say that that's the norm, apt expression and it didn't matter. it never came into. it was never even conceded. it was never a fact uh where the, what i was saying was true. it was an effect uh, with a one of a sign made that the country was being run by criminals or wondering hopefully

project to the end of the die my. my face, as was astride, there is not a properly protected, right, because the defense department does have project destroyer anymore. the defense department protects the government and that's a pretty serious all like allegation. and you would say that you would have thought that the exception, if in fact our country is not a properly protected by the people who are meant to do your reckon they'd want to find out whether that allegation is true. but it is very categories that you have which i will eat a trial of that national security unaffected. besides national security, irrelevant. right, right, that's umbrella. but it's a really hot weather wherever it's almost you wouldn't solve it this way. it's irrelevant with the security services or actually doing the job or not. chris, what matters is that you do your job by keeping that fact sake are you not lazy?

and they really the way it shows you have or did you listen, scott, when they ended, i went to say the boys, i'm always sitting on the lower body person. and once i was arrest and i said, look, i'm going to tell you the full story. i do not to begin with the a, you know, because i was still trying to get justice. but once i, i could say the version was on the wind of a new stories coming out and people beginning to see that every sheet it was a rise. the, the disney land in afghanistan, it'll, and things were quite different to what we tried. i played gillian. i said i just, uh, i mean i gave, i gave the documents a that much is true and, but i was justified. and the police interviewed me were very faded. i had no problems with it, but i said they asked me this question which sy store which sort of traffic. and i said when you gave your security clearance and you saw and off on side,

right was never damaged. you would never release anything to the the, the maybe or have a right. you clearly breaks that so that how we don't have to go any further. and i was like, no, were not, well i did my security players, it was all the provides of it. definitely like, you know, we, we do is the overarching gigi, to protect the distributors national security. and if i say some of these, which absolutely does a guides that, which is good, i actually by destroying the west side, i don't care whether it's an official policy or not. if it is something which goes against the very values that we are meant to be protected, and i'm obviously going to uh, do something about it. um, you know, it logic, you know, you get a safety safety briefings on an airplane. and this is doctor used to do that right now. if you have to do so,

the order to stop the airplane crushing to be loved. as i said, some, i think it was 3 and a lines with the uh did you you all it was to skate still a senior paula heading towards the mouth and then the aggression to the bad. now i remember that where the rule is, you got to what senior part of what to do to resend exceptions. i never see was that they would never be any exceptions where i would have to go. they. yeah. and especially if i school on a surprise, their social security was big dumb down and just like the old guys, this has nothing to do with my career. all this. no, no, not, not at all. i issue and, and i can, i can attest to that. i know you, we're friends, i know that this is certainly had nothing to do with your career. this was, this was about violations of the law and hold that side if you will. we're speaking with famed australia. national security was the blower. david mcbride about his positively kafka ask experience,

blowing the whistle on the australian military's war crimes in afghanistan. david, stay right there with us. we're going to take a short break, but please stay tuned. when we come back, we're going to talk about what's next for david mcbride and what he has received from the whistle blowing community state to the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the

there's many predicted israel's onslaught on gods is triggering a much larger middle east complex. it appears the united states is willing to fight israel's regional enemies for israel. this is what joe biden's, blank trip underwriting israel. actually the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry. uncle. we're speaking with australian national security whistleblower. david mcbride. good. have you been with us? david, thanks for joining. thank you john. david we national security was of lowers, especially in the us australia and the u. k. all stick together. we're all friends . we all remain in touch, i'm proud to call you a friend. what kind of support if you received from the whistle blowing community and from the west of like n g o's,

have they done anything to help make this experience a little bit more tolerable? well, is the party like in other ways of law and i saw you were interested in the boss of draws actually, um bill la strive beautiful for julian. miss andre, a shield buy energy levels are actually on for you. we're going to be appearing by video going well i have to sneak into australia to tell you the truth. oh yeah. yeah. that was such a joy. and um, uh yeah, i'm surprised and i wouldn't let josie many of you know. and so, but yeah, that was ever such a joy and i saw in you twice and we had a bit of a love what really helped me was it when you told me your dad um doing tell on like a saw i, i think it was maybe that was all the time, but i know where he met you once. and because i bid you, you know, i feel like you know what you're in the right. and that really helped me because

you don't necessarily, well, when you get a job, you worked in the business and you don't necessarily need accommodated secrecy. but you do need somebody to say yeah wrong. that's why i use the categories because is that once you receive it, that it does help a little bit just uh yeah, a little kids a nice not say but done yourself all about that. all i like to see it helps me. i don't know whether it'll do you obviously used by analogies, but i am, well, i like to use the analogies, religious year and end up costing us to sort of side that. yeah, you know in um whether it's the lord of the rings or somebody there are, there are bad forces out there were done expected to ever just suddenly get go to the, the like holes and you eat, they like big bags and you take them out with the storage? yeah. yeah, that's right. of the roads. there are just some, you know,

bad dude. yeah, there and, and you got to fly them and you just have to extend it. there's, there's a few more than i expected. but uh, you know, he made and said it was lucky this, this quarter, and that's where one reason i've been very lucky you are a bit lucky. besides, you may get not the only one that's right anymore. and there's about 6 to this industry. and that makes such a difference because the government, i'm sure they've tried this with you, but they try and they have any kind of was of law whether you're corporate or god, but gifts, the site and see. and the media points at all. he was that he was a described to he or she was a crazy person or didn't live right. and back inside that would may that tried that would make it in this other guy, the tax office. and there's another guy from the about the banking and there's another guy about the police and it starts to wherever a, b, c for the public,

my lifestyle, 0. crazy name, a rule, misguided effort. so just meeting with the baby, daddy would have to say their budget as we did with you. that's right. i think i have a particular born with you because you're in that you're in the security business and nobody understands, you know, the middle trays less security complex like that. another person. and you, you handle yourself with, with such grace as you might as have viewed um and that inspires make, that makes me lift myself due to your level one of the side that the one of the, one of the important purpose is life is to re surround yourself with peyton people better than yourself. that's right. and you know, at least yourself to their level. so i really enjoyed it. i love staying with the program. it gives me hype. it's very slick. it's very professional and it's a good,

it's a good to be thought of david, i have to say that the government success in your case was international news i, i actually learned about it in the american press and it immediately became a major topic of conversation in whistleblower circles, honestly people here people who you know, people like like a general in repack and thomas drake and bill benny were outraged. what, what has the media reaction been in australia after the raritan findings? it would seem to me that the media ought to be outraged, has that been the case as well as a bit of a vehicle in time and in a never that they've got a powerful voices. i tried to say, oh, well, the cases i have a, a was a family about little grimes, a number on it and you, your some rate was good and it just is in your case, it's hard to get people to care about it. but while i say it wasn't even a more,

or i'm sort of top all the story, but then we're on the top and, and actually the truth, whether or not the best public can understand the as, as in the georgia, minimize, the truth is much worse than just the people at the bottom doing the wrong thing. that's really true. terrible thing is that people looked at tall, adeline charging, we're covering up with and that's always paid my focused and, and so there was a meeting with you, a bit of a role across the 1st my reputation. we went down and they were like, oh, he's not really a research, he isn't minutes the come off because i was able to come out and so i always prayed about the leadership and i done my dad show our life. a matter of fact, i probably got a bit more support because there was, there's a certain amount of to say that it was a to strive to do without knowing much about my ties. didn't but g like razor goes,

i sort of style, you know, soul just make it to have a hard job and i shouldn't be, no, we shouldn't stick. and guess therapy is back in the strider advantage. they've sort of a some sort of bleeding. ha, um they have, i know that they do. hopefully. if they're denying attention, i now know that that's not the types it was it. um 2 bottles of any kind of lady. huh. i baby know little island, rolando and various other places. so he is, it was a goal, i said lot and but, but i like you, you are not products you know. right above all. yeah. and even the people who are on the special forces sol, jessica complained about all the special forces bible hobby bleeding out for you. but they just said there was a law i'm and we crossed the law. i'm 80 is a problem and it's not my problem because of any namby pamby the bar,

i will start to become a criminal organization. if we side these are the rules, but we don't follow the rules because it doesn't stop there. and david, you and i, of course, have both followed the julian assigned case very closely. we both try to be as helpful as possible. it's hardening that after all these years, julian has finally begun attracting some attention from, from australian parliamentarians, official australians. has there been much in the way of official support for you and for your your whistle blowing there, there have to be members of parliament to have to have a pines that you've performed really a great public service. has there been that kind of a reaction? yeah, there's the green, the green bar, and you are much more than just an environmental pod event. and i have been very good, i ended and we had a bit of resolution to genuine revolution, email,

apologies, and likes to us. we really just have 2 bodies and they're pretty much design, right. it's an illusion to think that the rep was changed. we're ready to blow to wrench below and nothing really changes. but in the last election, we had a whole lot of people. they called the tales who were sort of off grain off goods and, and i why the x, the 9 and is a a the balance of power now, a nice support. okay. good. um, well i say balance of power is i got it. they really do it easy, but the pressure of i did a cold since you did so that is kind of confused. so based upon them and they would be hard for them to really be in job for a long period of time. because say they do have enough people that don't have enough people to do anything, but there's enough people now to keep the so,

so being even some other, the one with the consent to use the right when i now stretching the hedge because a smear campaign back far away and um, some, uh, some of the sort of progressives, you know, he was really drawn around what he was trying to protect bad table. some of the conservatives the, like what he was trying to protect. so because it did nothing wrong. right. and he's not such a bad cause or the bottom line is fusion. the bottom line is we're, we are either our, our countries are either going to be nations governed by the rule of law or, or they're not one or the other. and it's people like you that have ensure that that we will be david mcbride. thank you so much for joining us. and god speed in this awful experience may have passed quickly. the river and dr. martin was a king told us in the mid 19 sixties that the more our community verse is long, but advanced toward justice. that is true. justice sometimes takes years sometimes

decades, sometimes life times. but right is right. david mcbride is on the right side of history. the next few years may be tough for him, but he will take his place in that pantheon of those who put the wellbeing of innocence above their own well being. the world is a better place because of that. thanks for joining us for another episode of what was of lowers. i'm john kerry onto we'll see you next time. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the in 1884, the german empire began its colonial invasion. internet may be from the very start

. burling encourage the white calling is to settle in south west africa and take away the best land from the local drive. the germans were actively draining natural resources and using the local population as a cheap labor source. this was causing major protest and lead to rebuild your in 19 o 4. they hear arrow and now my drive is rebuild against german colonial rule. kaiser wilhelm the 2nd was fully determined and ordered to suppress the rebellion with the utmost severity against the inhabitants of nam may be germany through is 15000 well equipped army all around the country. concentration camps were built in humane medical experiments over citizens were conducted within the period of 4 years. the german scaled up to 60000 people, among which they were 80 percent of the here railroad tried and 50 percent of the

number dr. the events in south west africa are called the 1st genocide of the 20th century, and not without reason are compared to the holocaust just 2 decades later after the massacre in nam may be a hitler's assault unit boat on the same brown colonial uniform which puts the world into the chasm of this 2nd world war. the buyer has to guess. the president, this event, excuse himself, is based digital and that he has become drunk on his own right to break as low as flats or visa to use to receives from the rest. i think this is we need to arrange to minutes a bit disturbed his relationship to reality is true about everyone around 2 icons. imagine the,

there's many predicted israel's onslaught on gods is triggering a much larger middle east complex. it appears the united states is willing to fight israel's regional enemies for israel. this is what joe biden's, blank chip, underwriting. israel actually look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're so shorter to conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient . we should be very careful about visual intelligence. the point obviously is to create a trust rather than to the area. i mean with artificial intelligence, we have so many of the a robot must protect this phone. existence was alexis, the

way he used to us and to just have carried out describes on syria the 120. by default. it says to do, but militia was in, says the water and russian weapons of the period to the fall and the as a country is defining smith releases the needs of numbers on the bottom is uh says and so wrapping up is mid treatment campaign in calling unison now has it sites sites on the southern city of ruffled either behind in front of.