some people, these love platforms are being used by money, loaners of dealers that are funding now they've got a drug money. all those things that i know generally done that shows and people out of the, of the drive that the money through these like phones, no matter how good something is, they'll only the 2nd percentage organise use. so she wanting to run us. the spouse is significant. i mean, every kind of war situation i wanna always comp being that should give you access to resources to buy data needs, especially food i to the which is which are necessary for the device. you're suggesting that a lot of crypto dealing risk, it's almost like the black market, all the doc where people are using it, the various and it into various means, wet weapons or drugs or whatever it is, but, but all off to offend me just said we're happy to do is to see some kind of middle, middle ground for support. i mean what, what, you know, people trying to get,

you know, food of fuels and water perhaps using these crypto platforms. i'm the father of inside me to the extent that i know that what are you saying? click book as he can be used for the for the border. the does as well as providing food share data, but has been since so many of the things that are already getting me is for providing any, you know, money for these kind of feed me. if i can be reduced. after all that girls go there, they many other they need for my dish and the word of like they provide these that and leave the people already protected, not in the water. so that's the situation that the, that they don't need that the people that i do for them, that the good book as you're buying lot use, but on the friday as activities, these generalize the nations by use of for friday. that's the status of that article. brooks and the, you know, i got up with you, said the group. so what they had to, you know, of what, all kind of wrong. the reason i would say is no we,

that's the reason i bring you to use right now is to get essentials that people will not explode that to get for that themes such as where phones and what that means that can be used for, for mostly structure and so i'm really at the do right now to see less the access so that people can have access to for that, including a hold. what i st. jo's and also do our best to ensure that doing good one to miss use the platform. i would be with some issues the platform a lot better. so to get more updates on odds, he does comes both stories coming your way in about less than 30 minutes. the

the sometimes a whistle blower does every thing right. he or she makes a revelation that is clearly in the public interest. the revelation is clearly a violation of the law and then he or she is even more clearly abused by the government. it would be great if the story is always had happy endings. unfortunately they don't i'm john to reaku. welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 today we're going to tell you about a bona fide hero. david mcbride is a former british army officer and i'm. busy here with the australian special forces who blew the whistle on war crimes committed by australian soldiers in afghanistan . after failing to raise

a response through official channels. mcbride shared the information with the australian broadcasting corporation, which then published a series of major reports based on the material, bbc broadcast in 2017, led to a major inquiry that upheld many of mcbride's allegations. despite this, however, abc edits, journalist themselves came under threat of prosecution for their work on the story . mcbride himself was prosecuted for dissemination of official information. we'll tell you more about that in a moment, but let's go back a few years. is david mcbride is a seasoned attorney. after studying for a 2nd law degree at oxford university, he joined the british military and eventually moved back to us trail. yeah. where he became a lawyer in the australian defense forces. in that role, he had 2 tours in afghanistan in 20112013. while on deployment, mcbride became critical of the terms of engagement and other regulations that

soldiers were working under, which he felt were endangering military personnel for the sake of political imperatives. determined elsewhere by 2014 mcbride had compiled a da ca, into profound command failings that saw examples of potential war crimes in afghanistan overlooked. and other soldiers wrongly accused his internal complaints were suppressed and ignored. mcbride's reports also looked at other matters, including the military's handling of sexual abuse allegations. after his use of internal channels had proven ineffective, mcbride gave his report to the police, and eventually he contacted journalist at abc. nbc is asked and files documented several incidents of australian soldiers killing on arm civilians, including children, and questioned the prevalent war culture in the special forces. subsequent to mcbride's disclosures, the behavior of other coalition special forces in afghanistan,

also came under sustained investigation. in many ways, mcbride's reports went further than the issues identified by abc mid prevalent rumors. that australian troops were responsible for war crimes, questionable deaths, enough dentist, and had led to calls for investigations in november 2020. the raritan report was finally published utterly vindicating allegations by mcbride and abc judge. paul barrington found the evidence of multiple incidents involving australia and personnel that had led to 30 on debts among his recommendations for the investigation of these incidents for possible future criminal charges. we'll talk about what happened next with our guest, david mcbride. david, thank you so much for being with us. thank you, john for having the it's in the now the honors mine, i want to start with the bad news, david, following your heroic actions following the findings by the raritan inquiry that

you told the truth. the australian government still insisted on prosecuting you and a court decision on november 17th found that you could indeed be prosecuted. and the documents that you needed for the government to provide you for your defense could legally be withheld from your team. just as i did in an almost identical situation here in the united states, back in 2012, you elected to plead guilty to try to mitigate the damage. so what is next for you? when will you be sentenced and do you have any idea? what that sentence might be, i'll be say, just in march next year, 12 of bob's 2024. the judge into that is not guarantees, but he's into that somebody calls in tennessee correction, or he said he'd get his test for that. that means it'd be fine, get added, there's not a guarantee. but if, if i do get that,

that means i don't actually go behind the prison walls. but your, you still get a sentence of 3 or 4 years. he's on your record as a prison sentence. can you just have to comply with very stringent conditions is a pretty light thing on parole early august. so he will blame it may be probably it will be quite difficult for me to have a copy of the united states. for example, when i have to fill out on my full name to be able to be given to the fates and i have to put down 3 very big ones. i, there are ways around data unless you go through this guy to bob and i see god might be on some a few blacklist but which already be able to say actually, because i've got a little afraid to the united states like you and others. but i like to have to keep these one data. so i would, i think that too much. yes. you do,

we there is with said this before, but if the data to be set a guy, the original, the original alarming similarities between your case and my case. so yeah, there's a lot of the issues i've used to the need if the universe has got a sense of humor and i think it sometimes does how you 6 sort of see where you used to feel a little bit as a peoria. just say, oh, well, for all john curiosity or he didn't have a just the reason the faded seat, you know, in the u. s. at least up with less than a strategy. and we've got a public interest defense, frank funded lo and behold. whether or not the, the us is controlled like a strategy and lloyd is as bad as, who knows, but the idea of a public interest face does not exist in australia anymore either. and i know more had a public interest defense than you do. absolutely. traffic, and as you said i, i do, even though it is the id, it was a palm and i should to me

a year ago that i would play guilty. there was really no choice. and then the stride and called reading the revised, even though everybody was smiling and wearing waves and gowns like it was done sort of all british when it couldn't be. there was very little difference between um the security code that you faced in the 8th street based in district of virginia or wherever was yes. where it was really just the style is judge all or we understand that not only was there no public interest to phase, and the judge said, it doesn't matter what it is. it doesn't matter whether it's the chief or the defense for stealing secrets to john up or taking bribes or a pitiful reading within to say in your offices or cannibalism. it does not that uh and that was quite shocking, but as, as, as i examined you,

and not only that was it's like a built in prices for the government. even if you were trying to improve something like that was going on. not that it would help you, but we're not even gonna allow you to bring up the eyes and those don't even know, see what it does. and that's the key. that's the key is from the very beginning. they simply will not allow you to defend yourself. so i wanted to ask you, if you could walk us through this mess, as soon as you made your revelations as an independent inquiry began, and it found quickly that you had told the truth and that war crimes had been committed by the military. yet here we are with you being the only person prosecuted in this case. you said correctly a moment ago that there are disturbing parallels between your case and my case. i always hoped or i hoped over the last 13 years that what happened to me wouldn't

happen to somebody else, but you had an almost identical experience. tell us about that or. yeah, now that's rot um a guy in a few years ago or something like the, the expression, the, the post truth world would cause me to roll my eyes. but unfortunately that it is hard to just see that that's the norm at exploration. and it didn't matter, it never came into it was never even can see that it was never a fact uh where the, what i was saying was true. it was an effect uh with a one of a sign may that the country was being run by criminals or wondering, hopefully projected at the end of the die my. my face as was astride, there is not a properly protected right. because the defense department does have project destroyer anymore, the defense department protects the government. and that's

a pretty serious all like allegation. and you would say that you would have thought back to the exception if in fact our country is not a properly protected by the people who are meant to do your reckon they'd want to find out whether that allegation is true. but in this very categories, the average i will either trial of that national security number affective, besides national security irrelevant. right? right, that's umbrella. but it's a really hot weather where it's almost, you wouldn't solve it this way. it's irrelevant with the security services are actually doing the job or not. chris, what matters is that you do your job by keeping that fact sake are you not lazy? and they really the way it shows you have or did us. it's got when they ended, i went to say the boys always sit on the lower body posted once on this arrest. and i said, look, i'm going to tell you the full story. i do not to begin with the a,

you know, because i was still trying to get justice. but once i, i could say the version was on the wind of a new stories coming out and people beginning to see that every sheet it was a rise. the, the disney land in afghanistan, it'll, of things were quite different to what we tried. i tried to kill me and i said, i just, uh, i mean, i gave, i said i gave the documents a, that much is true and, but i was justified. and the police interviewed me were very faded. i had no problems with it, but i said, hey, ask this question which i saw which sort of traffic. and i said when you gave your security clearance, you signed off on side, right? was never damaged. you would never release anything to the the, the maybe or have a right. you clearly breaks that so that how we don't have to go any further on all

of this one, the, we're not going, i did my security players. it was on the provides of isn't definitely like, you know, we, we do is the overarching gigi, to protect distributors, national security. and if i say something which absolutely goes, it guides that which is good. i actually by destroying the west side, i don't care whether it's an official policy or not. if it is something which goes against the very values that we are meant to be protected. and i'm obviously going to do something about it. you know, it was, you know, you get a safety safety briefings on an airplane and this is dr. just do that right now. if you have to do so in order to stop the airplane, aggression, to be loved. as i said, some of them, i think it was 3 main lines with the uh, did you you all it was to skate till a senior paula heading towards the mouth and then the aggression to the bad. now i

remember that where the rule is, you got to what senior part of what to do, do a certain exceptions. i never see was that they would never be any exceptions where i would have to go they. yeah. and especially if i school on a surprise, their social security was big dumb down and just like the old guys, this has nothing to do with my career. all this. no, no, not, not at all. i issue and, and i can, i can attest to that. i know you, we're friends, i know that this is certainly had nothing to do with your career. this was, this was about violations of the law and hold that side if you will. we're speaking with famed australia. national security was the blower. david mcbride about his positively kafka ask experience, blowing the whistle on the australian military's war crimes in afghanistan. david, stay right there with us. we're going to take a short break, but please stay tuned. when we come back, we're going to talk about what's next for david mcbride and what he has received

from the whistle blowing community state to the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the the

the. 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry. uncle, we're speaking with australian national security whistleblower. david mcbride. good . have you been with us? david, thanks for joining. thank you, john. david, we, national security was of lowers, especially in the us australia and the u. k. all stick together, we're all friends. we all remain in touch. i'm proud to call you a friend. what kind of support of he received from the whistle blowing community and from the west of like n g o's, have they done anything to help make this experience a little bit more tolerable? well, is not a body like another waste of law, and i saw you in a city by surprise actually. um, bill boss, dr. beautiful for julia, miss andre a shield buy energy levels. i actually, i thought you were going to be

a theory via video. right? well, i have to sneak into australia to tell you the truth. yeah. yeah. that was such a joy and um, uh yeah, i'm surprised and i wouldn't met josie, man, i mean, you know. and so, but yeah, that was definitely such a joy. and i saw in us twice and we had a bit of a love what really helped me was it when you told me about um, doing tell on like a saw i, i think it was maybe that was on the fine, but i already met you once and because i bid you, you know, i feel like you know what you're in the right. and that really helped me because you don't, you don't necessarily, well, when you get a job, you worked in the business and you don't necessarily need accommodated secrecy. but you do need somebody to say yeah, wrong. that's why i use the categories because is that once you receive it,

that it does help a little bit just yeah, look, it's a nice not say but done to yourself all about that. all i like to see it helps me. i don't know whether it'll do you obviously use spine analogies, but i am, well, i like to use the analogies for literature and end up costing us to set aside that . yeah, you know, in um whether it's the load of the rings or somebody there are, there are bad forces that they haven't done expected to ever just suddenly get go to the, the like holes and you evade like big backs and you check them out with the storage yeah, yeah, that's right. about that. there are just some, you know, bad dude. yeah, there and, and you go to fly them and you just have to extend it is there's a few more than i expected. but uh, you know, it may say it was a lucky visit this quarter, and that's where one reason i've been very lucky you are a bit lucky. besides,

you may get not the only one that's right anymore, and there's about 6 sufficient estrada and that makes such a difference cuz the government, i'm sure they tried this with you, but they tried any kind of was of law whether you're corporate or god. but guess the site and see and the media points at all, he was that he was a described to he or she was a crazy person or didn't live right. and back inside that would may that tried that would, may have been this other guy, the tax office, and there's another guy from the about the banking and there's another guy about the police and it starts to wherever be seen by the public. but nice style 0 crazy name, a rule misconduct. so just meeting with the baby, daddy would have to say their budget as we did with you. that's right. i think i have a particular born with you because you're in that you're in the security business and nobody understands the military's less security complex. mike,

but not the test. and you, you handle yourself with, with such grace as you might as have viewed um and that inspires make, that makes me lift myself due to your level one of the side that the, one of the, one of the important purposes of life is to re surround yourself with peyton people better than yourself. that's right. and you know, at least yourself to the level. so i've really enjoyed it. i love staying with the program. it gives me hype. it's very slick. it's very professional, and it's a good k h. a good to be bought of david, i have to say that the government success in your case was international news i, i actually learned about it in the american press and it immediately became a major topic of conversation in whistleblower circles. honestly, people here, people who, you know, people like,

like genuine rate and thomas drake and bill benny were outraged. what, what is the media reaction been in australia after the raritan findings? it would seem to me that the media ought to be outraged. has that been the case, the way a little bit of a vehicle time in a never that they've got a powerful voices. i tried to say, oh, well, the cases i have a, a was rarely about little grimes, a number on it and you, your some rate was good and it just is in your case, it's hard to get people to care about it that i'm a little while i see was a more or i'm sort of top all the story, but then we're on the top and, and actually the truth, whether or not the mass public cannot the scanner didn't as, as in the torture, memorize the truth is much worse than just the people at the bottom,

doing the wrong thing. that's really, really terrible. say is that people looked at tall, adeline charging, we're covering up with and that's always paid my focused and. and so to deal with the, with you a bit of a role across the 1st my reputation, we went down and they were like, oh, he's not really research, he is a minutes the come up because i was able to come out and so i always prayed about the leadership and i done my dad show on life a matter of fact, i probably got a bit more support because there was, there's a certain amount of to say that it was a strive to do without knowing much about my ties. didn't but the like me because i sort of style, you know, sold just like it did have a hard job and i shouldn't be. no, we shouldn't stick. and guess therapy is back in the strider advantage. they've sort of a sums that are bleeding and they have, i know that they do,

hopefully if there's a dying edition, i now know that that's not the types it was. it wasn't any kind of lady. huh. i'd be a little island, rolando and various other places. he is. it was a goal. i said lot, and i and i like you, you are not perfect. you know, it's right above all. yeah. and even the people who are on the special forces sol, jesse complained about all the special forces bible hobby bleeding out for you. but they just said there was a law i'm and we crossed the law. i'm eighties a problem and it's not a problem because of any namby pamby the bar i will start to become a criminal organization. if we side these are the rules, but we dont follow the rules because it doesn't stop there. and david, you and i of course, have both follow the julian assigned case very closely. we both tried to be as

helpful as possible. it's hardening that after all these years, julian has finally begun attracting some attention from, from australian parliamentarians, official australians. has there been much in the way of official support for you and for your your whistle blowing there, there have to be members of parliament who have to have a pines that you've performed really a great public service. has there been that kind of a reaction? yeah, there's the green, the green todd, and you are much more than just an environmental body event. and i have been very good, i ended and we had a bit of a revolution of genuine rentals, shooting out politics in like the us. we really just have 2 bodies and they're pretty much design, right. it's an illusion to think that the direct was changed to ready to blow to wrench below and nothing really just. but in the last election we had

a whole lot of people who they called the tales who were sort of off grade hopkins and, and i was the extra 9. and is a, a the balance of power now, a nice support. okay, good. um, well i say balance of power is i got a job, i really do it easy. but what do you think the pressure of i did a conscience you did. so that is on a crunchy. so they had a problem and they would be hard for them to really be in jail for a long period of time, because say they do have enough people, they don't have enough people to do anything, but there's enough people now to keep the so sylvia naming some other the one with the consent to use the right when i now stretching the hedge, because as me can't find back father, when, um, some, uh, some of the sort of progressives, you know, he was really drawn around what he was trying to protect bad table some of the

conservatives the like what he was trying to protect, soldiers are deducting wrong. right. and he's not such a bad thoughts or there's a bit, i think the bottom line is fusion. the bottom line is we are, we are either our, our countries are either going to be nation's governed by the rule of law or, or they're not one or the other. and if people like you that have ensure that, that we will be david mcbride, thank you. so much for joining us, and god speed in this awful experience may have passed quickly. the reverend doctor martin luther king told us in the mid 19 sixty's that the more arc of the universe is long, but advanced toward justice. that is true. justice sometimes takes years sometimes decades, sometimes life times. but right is right. david mcbride is on the right side of history. the next few years may be tough for him, but he will take his place in that pantheon of those who put the wellbeing of innocence above their own well being. the world is

a better place because of that. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers i'm john kerry onto we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the hi, acceptance, and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. you do not watch my new show. search like why watch something that's so different whitelisted or opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to planes or do they have the state department c. i a weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your facts for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't want my shelves to stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching. but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way

the moscow brands the latest you create in supply company to he or mr. chomsky as a terror attacks sponsored by european countries or the attack left at least 15 civilians dead. 10 wounded in thousands more dropped on the the 34 people are killed as us. earth strikes drain down on targets across syria, heavy rag of e. you said that the situation in the middle east is that the cryptic to meet the data is all you have to kind explode it's i can see the effect. any dog i couldn't do it, right. see, is that tell me know, a domino effect. a rush off alonzo the united states are strides and seen.