that rheumatologist, his career, those of the back of the tests that took place and valuable data already both as well paid and it was a comfortable life. unlike many of his former patients, the much little more my mother got sick, they gave her drugs. i asked her what medication she was taking, but she didn't give me a clear answer. she said that the drugs were simply given from a white box for condition worse and over the course of a month. and then she died. they did not take any responsibility, did not find any one and did not provide any help. big pharmaceutical companies and show that contracts contain causes to exclude such payouts as they make bumper prophets for the shareholders. these boxes of documents contained the secrets of the mass, charles and experiments that took place here in the don't yet sort of public fraud . investigations will take time and may reveal just how the people here will used a human guinea pigs. a president that has came in time as a ward of the title of

a hero of ukraine to intelligence chief kettle, donal fuser, previously admitted to involved with in key of terror attacks on russian territory bowing. that will be more such attacks and promising that more russians will die and get this put down, or if there's demand that victoria at noon and referred to as, quote, our guy question more at all to international the the hello and welcome to cross the bull horns on peter level here, we discussed him wellness is very likely the most watched interviewing history. tucker, carlson's engagement the russian president vladimir putin defied the gatekeepers

and the powers that be in the west. on this edition of the program, we discuss the significance of the interview and what can be learned from it. but i'm joined by my usual guess george, send me while we in budapest, he's a pod cast, right, the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals and america. yes, we have martin j e. as an award winning journalist, a gentleman cross type roles. in fact, that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciate it. all right, let's start out with george in budapest, george, you know, that highly anticipated highly criticized even before the interview was done, recorded and released and then it was being criticized even more. if you would have talked about this previously, was a very interesting interview. it had its flaws, though your thoughts, the exact could be there. i mean, it was very interesting and had as far as i think, what was interesting about it and why it bravo so much is syria beforehand. and a lot of hysteria also is, is that he did indeed challenge the reigning narrative,

the rainy interpretation of the events in ukraine. so he was telling a vast audience. so a story that's very different from the one that they already gave with the day of the day nights off the night, which is that the booted is a, a, a, a dictator. refresher is the imperialistic state that will just wants to conquer everything and wants to bring it under his terrible domination. he's just a hipaa like person um and he provided an alternative history history that we on the show of course, very familiar with. but many people and the course is that the slopes rage if i broke rage on the body of the white house of the fence damage and shoals bar is johnson. because people said a different story. everything that brought of it that they what was very important that it's been just story is going to going back to the collapse of the soviet

union. all the various promises not expand. nato put is also to join nato. and the really the rejection of a is off of a zone and, and then of course bring needs up to more recent times with uminski quotes. uh and so. so i think in that sense, i think it was a, it was a very important interview of a range is continuing. i mean, it's not going to help pay for quite a while. but if you call and have people hearing these kinds of things, well charge you mentioned history, let me throw it to a martin right now. there was a lot of history mentioned, this is a different view. and i think it was the 1st 23 minutes that even i was kind of in a state of shock. i know you were is that we got the entire history of russia in 23 minutes, which was quite overwhelming. tucker carlson was obviously overwhelmed. but nonetheless, here, you know, martin, you know, we do this on a weekly basis. we can bean and i have to say, maybe you'll disagree with me that there was virtually nothing vladimir putin

mentioned in his interview that we didn't already know. i mean, there's some minor things that i want to talk about it, but it, but this is not a narrative as that has been hidden it's, it's not a narrative. it's never been heard before. are exactly right. yes. your bang on the money um to me there were no real revelations um, but i think um tucker costs and soldiers in america. i think there's a lot of them to there for them to think that too, since you're going to put in, put into somebody from, from, from the, from the, from the beginning. he was going to dominate the interview. so he gave the 23 minute level. it was a history lesson and was absolutely nothing thought of causing it to about it. i mean, just so you just gave that that's a strain to frowns. looks of looking as though he understood everything, but it really understood nothing. you just need to talk, you know, well i, i think also is that he is, he's never encountered someone that would dominate so much and be so forceful in his arguments to be found as

a juxtaposition to other western leaders. i and particularly on that day i'm thinking of under, by, i'm sorry, joe biden, the president go ahead mark. but to be so when you turn into like that in a different language, there's that delay and it's very difficult to hit the bank so you know, so in that respect he was quite fundable. but, you know, i think come, if we're talking about content, you know, he took an awfully long time, really to get around to really touching on the key points, which he believes the american public really need to know. we know who grew up north stream, you know, is the landscape the mansion negotiate a peace treaty? who is, you know, what talks if you had with the americans, if any, you know, are you ready to, to, to actually enter into a peace agreement? only some points, but i think we're relevant, but i think um, you're gonna i'm gonna stick my neck on alex and the color on a limb. i. so the answer was put, pull actually, i mean, when you look at it from the conventional sense of having to use it on the type of

costs and tends to interview people, the any really likes is heroes. it doesn't, it doesn't tend to go for polemics dot interviews. he's not an international journalist, civilian and gentle the same. what is his real strength is his full today, he's doing monologues on us domestic policy, which is very good at. but i still, he was out of his depth with his interview and i think i told you joe, to jump in there. what do you think about that? yeah i, i think it's a, i think it's a mixed bag dental link to our our i think that the interview was, was um, not as good as it could've been. i, i wouldn't blame talk to afford that mean talk a k to it. um, as every man, i mean, he came, there is a, with a view to presenting um, tilting with the platform because a lot, the video in america, you know, i'm in american, we have one way of seeing what's going on about when russia, what's going on and this will, you know, here's an opportunity, you know,

address yourself to the american audience. tell them what it's all about, tell them you know, and how we're going to resolve is what, what's going to be the final outcome. and i think that if the builder i think didn't make the best of that opportunity and i look and say, well why should a, you know, they, you know, he has his own originally, you know, easy doesn't care about what the talk is. agenda is on the list. it was the opportunity to um, you know, to, to make his case, i think succinctly and, and the effect of them out. as i said earlier, i think he made a lot of points points a we're, we're familiar with. but i think you're going to made it much, much more effective leaks to say that right at the beginning. so the people in know what's going on, what, what, what's where he's coming from. when you stop talking in this very links they discuss, it weighs about the things that happened more than a 1000 years ago. you're going to lose people really, you know? because and then any time it took my history, what, how far back are you going to go?

i mean, to go back century is millennial. how does that help us? well yeah, i would think both of you would agree with me that if you had taken 2008 or 2014, that's the point of reference that have brought more probably would have been a lot more effective, more who needed this interview. you know, if you look at toby's the name or the his whole approach to tucker, he but it was almost kind of past, say with it moves almost if tucker needed this interview more than to me. because i think we both, both of the, all 3 of us would agree is that it and food name and said it is. and you know, the, the media outlets for president, my predominantly dominated by western countries. and they're going to, you know, that they're not, they're not gonna let up on their narrative. so he'll throw in his $0.02, but he's having a lot of folks that is going to have an, a, a breakthrough martin. it's really hard to say, i mean i, i sympathize with you if, if you think that talk a little bit more. but then again, you know, the very fact that some of these points needed making, i think that also sort of the spotlight on another subject, which is, is the,

a huge information barrier between east and west, which is really affected. these huge issues like a claim or not israel and i think probably puts in 6 there is. i wonder if student has major advisors honestly because you know, committed a number of full pallets, not interview that the 23 minute history. i mean, we can just don't do the telephone interview. if you have a decent meet advisors that would say just, you know, post us know what you do because in most cases in, in pre internet days, that would never go ahead. so it's only because we have the internet, you know, you know, martin, i've seen i've seen food and interviewed many, many, many times. my sites as he makes his own rules for himself. i that, that, that's his my gut feeling. okay. i mean, when he visited our tea was when our team moved to its new location, i sat next to him for 90 minutes. um, you know, he was gonna do whatever he was going to do. he didn't have any talking points. he didn't have any cards. he just did it the way he saw it. okay. which is interesting . george did. didn't change anything outside of western headquarter tucker carlson

. um probably not the able to change the public uh opinion. i think the um that if you know the fact that he went into this history lesson might just change people's perceptions of, they mean as the so for rushes blocks us the dictator. it was either way l bends on a on come green. all these neighbors. when, when they look at him and they find that he so, so preoccupied with the history of, you know, maybe they looked up on him differently. but i think that the, the subdivision of what, what's these boys important is that the substances of things. and then he got onto a model, so science that they, they need to come at the beginning. i was always big basically, you know, the lower it in to be those on the boy, you're going to lose people. i mean,

it's just inevitable. people get tired like, and i go off and do their own thing. so that's why it was just such a bizarre thing for him to do so to it'll go, you go into that whole whole george to talk to you about about things that people know. i mean, americans know very little about their own history because this would be completely just bizarre, everything, you know, i, i mean, even though there was things going on in the 9th century. well, i think, you know, if you look at the transcripts, which i encourage viewers to look at the transcript, i think you'll get more out of it because of what martin just said. here we have the translation. we have these a positive level about but george, he said just give me 30 seconds. so it gives me 30 seconds and i'll explain the base break and it turned to the almost do a half an hour of martin. the most important thing about this interview is better than that. it even happened. that's the way i look at it. yeah, and i think is a very poignant point set to the event itself and the lead up to the fence and all

the spend, the public relations, and all the anger and jealousy, in spite from western general is this is actually a bigger events. the measurements of yourself, but i think the great it will play else, does it for a long time. i think an awful lot of people will see the witness that and wouldn't be quite so nice as perhaps we, we think i think i think americans will notice stuff and i'm judge colson for what he did to him easily what, what was noticed. anyway. again, it's really interesting, we have these kind of like personal information spears as a pull that i follow. and i, i'm interested in their analysis. they were all over this. i mean they really picked it apart. okay. but and, but then others, you know, they, i think george, i told you the, tell the telegraph, their 1st article was, you know, putting a warren's musket or something like that to be something very esoteric. you know, that's what they took from it. but it was people that are interested in this story, were all over it and, and, and, and forensically took it apart,

which i think was really good. keep going mark. well yeah, i think so, but i mean, going back to the point, it was interesting that he needed to do a video before high explaining to americans why he needs to interview. i think for me that ready jumped out. that was the thing. i'll remember. well, he did do it 18 does. he did explain nothing, you know, without being some problem. he basically said, very politely, you're pretty current, you know, nothing about this ukraine situation until, you know, even less about russia and guess what? on jim lis. now we're just not the same moment. okay, is it going to come in here? we're going to talk about those finer points in the 2nd half of the program. we're gonna go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the tucker carlson interview with ladder. we approved him, stay with our to the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shepherd,

reality distortion by power type vision with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse really once a better one. i mean it just because it shows you frustrated. images presented as fast can you see through their illusions going underground? can the welcome back to press ok. bullhorn john peter la belcher manual discussing the tucker carlson interview with vladimir putin. george, let's get into some of the finer points here. north stream. um, um the, the crew in 2014 and a possible fast dig hostage exchange your pick. you take whatever you want,

go ahead. well, i'm the basic stuff about the, the hostage exchange. and that is, was, was very interesting because the ones, uh, the, the topic awesome, very, very boldly raise the issue of the game. since he had kind of ended the interview and then extended it, did you notice? yeah, exactly, no, i absolutely. so he brought this up um, but you know, after all, up until any that will be quite friendly. you know, he didn't know how booting would respond to the subject, but thought it was a ticket on board was good. yes about it. so said you know, that right, where you can just simply say he's a junior so there's a lot more to it than that. um, but then he is and said, yeah, well we're working on it and we can resolve this and, and, and, and suggest that the doctor let. uh, it's quite likely that he will be resolved and he will be going home. and essentially also spelled out what would be the conditions which and he talked about

this um, this person in germany who was killed someone but but who does? yeah. so yeah, i tell them, but because he's a, he's a patriot and this person left, the mother was a, was a soft, a complete scumbag, you know, barely a human being. but those are the terms of the exchange. and once they spell this out, then you know, ultimately, you know, the us government knows, okay, do you want him back sometime? no, you put it put in the, in on the next decade. these are, these are that sounds you have to fulfill that, that were which it amazing was. what was interesting about that is that the russian position on these delicate issues is to say nothing. and as head of state, he actually did say something which was about i was really quite surprised. it took a lot of courage, i think also for particular because he knew he was being a task for doing the interview. so it was a good incumbent upon him to asked that question which he should have. and i'm glad

he did martin, who blew up the north stream to boston. you did only think of something it himself all his own. yeah. i know. it was quite a funny room, the light lights a moment. but you know, a lot of americans are going to think about that comment a little americans are going to actually, for the 1st time. consider, you know, some of these are put on the internet. um the claims by um cmo hush for example, and it for me the take way of the interview is it is going to generate a little debates a lot on social media low and mainstream media. i'm just going to be honda for a lot of these pauses on john is generous in america to keep pumping out a little this. but this, when, you know, we've got this relatively serious update site is interviewed with the world leader in an incredible how the member channel is going to social media or said, you know, well, you know, tucker says the know with some journals have don't interviews with the person,

i know i'm gonna try to why we will replied, we will apply to do them. but the, you know, we haven't got to think back from him. you know, i think there's a key message to, which is important really doesn't, right. most of these western journalists, you know, he, he, and then going back to what, what type of side of the beginning, you know, he was basically saying we're doing this interview because our until this to america, a so piss pool and so partisan is that corrupt that we need to do that, and i think that is an important take away from me to call me okay, what i mean is i saw them making kelly interview. that was a total waste of time. oh i, i, i won't get that uh, 40 minutes back into my life. i mean, and the, and that, and i have, i think pollutants probably felt the same way. these are sense was here. what they, what he encounters are not journalists, but as active as and whatnot, ideologically dropping that. that's okay. that's another issue, george, which is very important. i'm glad that a tucker press is negotiated into the conflict in ukraine. your thoughts was the interest that you because that was a the, the, was that i was bossing i was gonna try to go through or what,

what's the spelling out? do you really spelled out very little? i, i, i couldn't really figure out what he was saying, but except the tucker was pressing him to say, well, why don't you sort of get on the phone to the white house and, you know, see if you can work something out with them with, by then and then, and buddhism or why should i do that was over because by who is the one who's financing this war and the yeah, me and i may, may be. but the problem is that is that zalinski has 0 past this decree. it is the law that brought prohibiting him from negotiating. so we can have negotiations until he is the law has changed. and i'm assuming on this book pulled this up. i'm assuming he would, the cost is low without the the a the go and give them the go ahead from the white house. so essentially, the 1st of all has to get rid of the slow them we can negotiate. so it seems as if he was saying that the negotiation was going to, we have to be with ukraine,

ukraine or roughly gonna have to negotiate. he said, well, we're open to it, but you have to make that 1st step. you have to get, get rid of this law. well, it doesn't, doesn't help us. very much. has to be didn't waiting spell out what would be, what, how do you envisage this final outcome? well i, i, he did, but he did it. his name a put in his reaction was not straightforward, but he did. he told us his thinking now go to martin right now in was the assemble process um, uh, in the early stage of the conflict and i and i, i think that that, that's a sore point with the russian side. say, i mean, we already went there. we are ready showed you what we were interested in, what we wanted and your side through the ill a service is a boris johnson, which of course, of course, johnson. we acted to this interview in the most bizarre way. i don't want to waste time on it, but this guy is not a serious guy with, you know, martin, but the russian say, we've already done this. okay. you rejected it. so and now it's your turn. okay.

and with every passing day, the terms get worse and worse, where you crane and that's on the west market. like it was a key message and i think he showed it across the palace for a lot of american german is to remind them because they're not writing this. you know, a big part of this media war is a mission. and we don't read that in wisdom copy that there was a date on the table and burst johnson floating. so, you know, he echoed all of that and repeat to that. i think that was very relevant to bring, bring anybody out today, but you also yeah, you know who, who benefits from this interview and then which since we've been recording, i've been thinking about, i think, come, if you wanted to really damage to abundance election campaign, you know, and you know, let them it puts in. all you really do need to do is just to agrees to do a topic causing interview and sound really lucid and clever. and i'll take that for 2 hours talking about history. you know, have all these facts in front of you with no to cause. i'm a scripted interview, that's enough in a week with a us for us. it's in the completely put together

a coherent sentence and english confuses in mind. the old mac chrome with us, with a, with the material and an insurance with the code. and then the confusion ccn agent with the president of mexico and the other. remember when his son died, when one was and then and then it gets clear from apparently the department just as possible. prob, on the basis that we can investigate him, because he's to say, no, you know, in the week, you know, that kind of interview has quite an impact because an awful lot of americans who don't really know coach and have him full of russian police still gonna say cheapest creepiness that go shop. you know, we might not agree with this politics. we might not agree with the team is right, right, the record. but he's a leader and we are one of the leaders in america for decades. i mean, in person we have to go back to probably move with such as so d, o d is more full. we had last time we had a lead, somebody really took control, took responsibility. so in terms of affecting the job,

i and i think uh that on his own was quite an extra set and miss all into the button. come at no charge. one of the, you know, when they talked about the, the, the process and this symbol and all 3 of us talked about it out in real time when it was happening. and i have to, in my easily say that i was optimistic, maybe some of the good come about. and then we had it all dashed. but george, it's been that was like 18 months ago. and it's, you know, and people in western media was like, not only did that, you know, that, that not only didn't happen, but it is, this is a complete fix, at least it's kind of like the hunter binding laptop. you know, i mean it took them so long to oh yeah, actually is real, you know, in the same thing as we're experiencing again. that's one of the frustrations i have george. right. that's exactly right. and it's very interesting that we've talked about the stumble for us as one of those boots adults about just like it talks about mens. but you know, if you go through western media coverage,

they don't, they never, never bring that up. they never talk about it a symbol, they don't talk about mens. they just have this idea. well, you know, booked in the 2021 who wrote this essay about the russians and ukrainians, being one people that set out his imperial agenda. but he's going to conquer all of ukraine and incorporated into the rush, so that that's how they explained it as well. they don't actually tell us what they base what happened to stumble, how close they came to an agreement, and what a catastrophe. it was that bars, johnson was the, i think it goes with the the united states brought bread, the other destroyed. and then so it was, you know, i'm how many, how many, hundreds of thousands of, of died since then. and then you get to the next step, which is what or what, how do we end this? how do we resolve this? given that there was that there was at least an agreement on the table back then, you know, made it and go back to latham and it's not realistic,

but let's at least see if i could both the model. oh no, no, no, no we do. we just gotta keep this little going, but it's still good. it's actually good. and then it's all the fault of the republicans. it's all filled up from the usual characters. because then not willing to send even more arms to ukraine to keep this will going to, to some, but some mystical end of a negotiated outcome. because where we put ourselves into a strong position at the negotiating very well that's, that's this of the fantasy works. but i think in the book and that challenge, that is like, what the hell are you doing that you have a lot of problems of your own. you know, why you, why, why is you wasting everyone? it's the resources on this. well again, but looking at the demeanor in here a martin i, i would wager they put never would have done this interview with him and didn't feel like he wasn't a very strong winning position. okay. almost to the point of, you know, being very, very confident, but essentially messages you guys started this,

this is what you wanted to do. we gave you and how we gave you an offer app is way like to say, and you didn't want to take it. so, you know, you've made your bed sleeping it, but that's the kind of tell him that i got from him. and what was the west do now they will make it 10 times worse themselves. you know, they the old other one in hold on take already european union is talking about a sanctioning talk a call. some of i'm trying to find the interview and it goes, when you do that, you know, a 100 fold more people. one of the want to read it, want to watch it. and people in america talking about trying to so to put, put of some sort of band on top of costs and coming back. you know, all of this is fantastic for him and his website and, well, you know, we're, we're all a lot of time here. but gentlemen, i looked at the a montage of all of the journal a so called you know, and access people like, you know, all of their criticism. when i looked at all of those spaces, tucker carlson, got more views for that interview than all of these networks in,

in platforms get in total. okay, that's the impact your gentleman. that's all the time we have want to take my guess in budapest and mirror cache. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us. here are the scenic some remember prospect rules. the, [000:00:00;00] the at the end of the 18th century britain began the illegal opium afraid in china. these hard drugs causing addiction and literally destroying the human body became a gold mine, or businessman from the foggy owl beyond. however,

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