to put in an allow him anything he wants because they suggest that he's a russian poppet, that is a pollutant poppet, but that's not really what will happen. i think frankly, given that trump has recently said that he thinks that united states should loan money to ukraine to continue it's war. that in fact, the politics will not change much at all just as the boot and as has said, that there won't be much change in terms of the us policy towards russia whatsoever, although less vilification from the administration. all right, let, let's come back to the 5 i is. can you imagine how many people besides trump the 5 ice by on the around the world? oh, my goodness. it's beyond measure. i think that they have all ca, so to speak, on thousands of not hundreds of thousands of people whom they surveil on

a regular basis. we know that the n s a surveillance on every day. americans, for example, and that we learned this from us node and of course, and we know that the n s a and c, i have files on hundreds of thousands of americans at least. and also of course, uh, and so called enemies of the state, which would include all kinds of foreign agents and so forth. so this is a community that is a, that thrives on data and that, that collects it without a permission, without the official size of permission in the case of the united states. and probably against the will of some of the so called allies of united states as well . could just say at least part of the job done by the 5 eyes is done for the great a gains like catching the bad guys right as well. i mean this, this is the rail a by, of course, but they're really interested in,

in continuing to it. first of all, they have an interest in expanding their own power base organizations or institutions thrive at on growth and on increasing their own power. secondly, they have an interest in advancing the agenda of the regime. and that doesn't mean it's necessarily benevolent to other people in the world. so we're looking at the cases where, you know, they're going to find and try to construed information that is uh, you know, damaging to their opponents. this is really what they want. and that includes domestic opponents. likely there's a file on may just for speaking to r, t on the regular basis. so this is what they're up to. and i think that you can't really just say it's for the greater good because it's not, it's for the good of the regime here in the united states. and it has particular ends in mind. and they are not always uh, benevolent to say the least. all right,

we have to leave you here. now. thank you so much for your insights. have michael rectum world for my new york university to professor an offer of google epic. and i go thank you so much for your insight. thank you. bye. that's the all davis ally. you can get more details on our cheat of. com. i'll see you again in less than 30 minutes. the the, [000:00:00;00] the

hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . the destruction of godsa and its people continue unabated. the by the administration shows no meaningful interest in stopping israel's genocidal assault . at the same time, there is much talk of a ceasefire. in this one sided conflict. it would seem, it is just that, just talk the cross talking palestine. i'm joined by my guess, lionel in new york. he is a legal in media analyst and rest than we have. michael maloof is a former pentagon senior security policy analyst ended latasha. we crossed to steve, so he, he is an award winning journalist and chief editor of mit is this course. alright gentlemen, cost talk roles and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want and always appreciate it. let me go to you 1st here and let me just ask you a very basic question. since the united states is an election cycle. very simple question. i remind everyone the title of this program is guides,

a death camp. so in light of the title of this program, lionel has joe biden put genocide on the ballot. absolutely not. and the reason why is that? sadly, to say, peter, most americans, most american voters do not understand this conflict. this war is har as genocide. when i ask any of my friends conservative liberal, it doesn't matter. this is what they say. israel has the right to defend itself, all thinking and all discussion stops. and if you follow up with, but does israel as it is being suggested, have the right to punish kaiser to eliminate guys, to eliminate palestinians, to, to starve them, to goes back circular to they have the right to defend themselves very quickly. on september the 11th in 2001 we said in this country, america has the right to defend itself against terrorism. and by the way,

there is no concept, no group to a, some real to vague, too hard to pinpoint for purposes of, of, of, of sanctioning war. we went to a rock and afghanistan to get them back, even though we never figured out what they did. so great, so just a conclusion, this will not ever hit the conscience of american voters because they still think it, there's some kind of a vague and legitimate response. well, maybe with the exception of arab and muslim americans in places like michigan in pennsylvania, a good for right there, michael, let me know to you. after a 130 days what, what is israel accomplished and all of this except for destroy hospitals? schools, universities can well, lot of women and children. what are they accomplished? well, one thing they have accomplished is that they have gained the universal dis dislike by the world uh for what they were for what they're doing. perfect training on the

innocent women children. not 1100000 children are not members of hom, us as a besides that almost as a resistance group. it's not a terrorist group. and, and, and we're seeing over and over again. and if it weren't for the actions that israel has done to the palestinians over the course of years and years and years, we wouldn't be where we are right now. and, and, and the people don't understand that they don't understand history. and i thought it was very intriguing when we saw the, the interview with chuck tucker carlson and, and lot of important people have no concept of history period. they don't know what, why we're there, what we're doing and, and, and we're seeing the same thing here. they don't understand what led up to this. it just didn't happen overnight. and i think that people in the americans especially need to understand that. but we're there so embroiled now in their own issues and

problems. we've got the ukraine issue that we've got to deal with. people are going crazy here trying to figure out even making the living these days. given a biden's manufacturer of inflation and an economic downturn and world crises. and it's, it's pathetic. i mean, normally the administration's come in to make life better. this guy hasn't made it much, much worse. well, all front. yeah. it's the foreign and domestic and foreign. it's steven it's, it's interesting what we have heard from lionel and michael already. i don't disagree with the interpretation of how events are understood in the west, particularly the united states, but history is well known in your part of the world, okay? and they understand where this came about, why it's happening and who is protecting it. and that is, of course, the united states and it's close allies. they are just as comfortable as anyone and

tell a b steven of this process though, we almost started on 75 years ago. stuff new uh 75 years ago and was the support of the british for design a slot. you were talking about zines, not about the jewish, there's a big difference. so people in decisions have no problem with the jewish. they've been living together for hundreds and thousands of years. the problem designs a geology. i supported by the united kingdom and the united states. they've been funding or supporting the massacres and the, and the killing was the part of sidney and people and what's happened. october 7 is a re flip shift, a react of the 75 years of oppression that the palestinian people has been going through. this time we are see the western world and let's see the list of people the normal people have broken up and you find that you seem to protest in london mass of growth as in london and so forth. a spot,

a spike in new york city were seen in new york city, jewish, and the muslim fathers things together to side by side. we are seeing and abrupt so we're seeing in spain on over. we're starting seen more countries as standing up in the face of imperialism. so the world today, it's not like how it was 2000 and the street that the american and you'd stay e pack, the car, the white house can just the light to the world on means. the media was a smoke too, but i'd say this is a weapon of mass destruction. there's go in until the 3000000 people and destroy a civilization the people on the dock night. so they, there's the internet. there's the social media years freelance journalist on over and also there is a lot of channels who are not screwed imperialism and did want to buy. and i mean, we need that like our to use one of them so you can other tv channels. so the world today is thursday, it's not up to that, but the starting to wake up,

the people in the united states and in europe do not one tour. the only people suffering from this. what is the opinion and the american people, the american facts fear that when the by the administration of the congress faith night with 95, the steve. and as i pointed out, as i asked you a question that makes the american people just as comfortable visa or their leaders making decisions, i don't want the stench of a genocide. you uh, able to escape people that you can't say. and i've been saying this for weeks now, line or has been with me every step of the way. you can't say you didn't know. you can't say that anymore, lionel jump in, i saw you want to jump in a couple of things here. i always ask my friends, that's because you must understand. i always try to, lord this a peter, i've been doing this thing professionally to him to talk radio for over 35 years and i am an expert in ignorance. i mean, that's why i'm an expert. i have a ph, d in it. and the thing that i always ask you, what is, what is the word to what if you were to imagine what if you were to change the name of the word, instead of israel,

call it friends. the different story complete that we can't do that. the 2nd irony is that we talk about borders and we talk about is real big, basically maintaining it borders of the. okay, that's fine in my country right now. if we don't have any border taught, in fact, there are no mortgage people coming in from everywhere. so we, we have this schedule for an attitude. there's another thing i want to ask you gentlemen, how can you ever cease fire when only one fire when one side is firing? what does this even mean? and the next question, very quickly, cuz i'm a lawyer. there's something called proportionality. we have in our country the right to defend yourself, but you must be proportion. you could only be w for 2 w 4. we have the, the i, c, j, basically say in an indictment. this is what, whatever scaling count you want. how is it that these very simple facts are in, are being ignored, not by the, the, the, the laughter, those people who are

a sensible bite and supporters who will not be by the way, on the ticket, but by conservatives or others who are, who are supposedly against button, but for war and you have now left these so to speak, who are now clamoring for more war. i mean, it was a line or white, this is the, this is the poverty of the situation all go to michael. this is the issue of conscience. this was what does it, it's not left, right. it's not. that's nonsense. these people spin it that way, but it's nonsense. it's about conscience. i mean, i mean i, i, how do you feel with yourself knowing that this was happening, michael as well it's, it's going to get worse. yep. unfortunately. uh, we have, we have a country that chooses to ignore facts as minor points out. they, they don't, they don't want to know the facts. they have their ideological bent, and that's the direction they're going. that's why people like victoria new and

it's so dangerous. but the nia collins are so dangerous. they're the ones who have gotten this into this calamity, not only here, but in a rock in the afghanistan, even in the vietnam. i mean it, it goes on and on. and they are in both political parties in, in spite of our efforts to try to start a 3rd one. they don't want to listen and they're going to be, they're going to be uh, uh, uh, the victims of their own demise because they brought it on themselves. and this is where it's going. the united states is very comfortable. we could stop this crap tomorrow. and if we were to absolutely cut it off and happily and hopefully that can happen in the house, but i doubt that they're going to be able to hold on eventually they'll cave. but what do we gain? nothing? absolutely nothing. meantime is lot of points that are old porter is wide open and we've got m s m s 13. we've actually got the cartels in control. so we have our own

problems and the people along the border really understand that problem. and the, and people in the blue states in the, in the cities are beginning to understand it more and more. yeah. which really interesting, you know, michael, before we go to the break here, i'm glad you brought up these other issues because this shows us time and again that these are a lead to issues these that are in things that are important to the leads not to anyone else, i mean, and it's very interesting of that mirrors around the world. it would be a look at these ellipse in the middle east, but it still won't really speak up. i mean, it's very shameful, but they have their relief agenda align with with their western masters. ok. but everyone is saying that no one can hide from this. but basically since you can watch it on live television. i, gentleman, i'm going to jump in here we go. to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on palestine state without the

the, the, the, the welcome back across the top where all things are considered on peter la belcher mind, you were discussing palestine. the ok, let's go back to steven steven is my viewers, though. i by training on

a historian and academic historian, and i'm acutely aware of the historical facts when i see monuments, when i traveled the different cities, i'm very happy that i understand the historical contacts and why people remember these people, these individuals in history. but we're in a historical moment right now, and we are all witnesses to history. we're all witnesses to what's happening or what's happening now and could potentially happen to the city of rafa. with 1100000 more people, more than 1100000 people crowded and being pushed into the sea or, and potentially across the border. we're all watching this happening. okay? and that's what makes this a very historical moment. because if you look at the way, the other times it is real mo, most the grass are mostly and mowed the lawn. there wasn't as much coverage of that . okay. and now there is so much coverage of it. it just turns your stomach that

you were actually witnessing. this is real steven. uh, that, uh, the, what's happening today is heartbreaking. and as you said, the world is watching and the world cannot do anything about it. like the normal people it can, i don't. uh, the only way you to inside this of the sub, this is the resistance because the united states is the only country that has influence on a mad person called this. you mean nothing, you know is doing a m, i is the domestic or, and the sub use of the people that the men, women and children of the south africa tried their best. other countries tried their best and politically, the only way is resistance. because of this, the solution can be finished today as your guest said in the 2nd, if, if the, by the administration and then other states a force benjamin, anything else on the table and do the 2 state solution. and then the board or the

mac is 67, uh, the products to whom get the land that have been these will get shut off on the back, the soonest. we'll get the short on right back. and everyone live in peace. you'll won't be anymore. you'll won't be in detention, but because benjamin netanyahu today, he wants to swap the goal as long as if there's because he afraid he is afraid of going to prison because of the disruption files. so he doesn't care about the millions of 70, and he doesn't care about the med. so what you can put endangered, the whole region and the economy of the region and the economy of the world. but steve, and he doesn't even care about the captives being held in the gaza strip by him. uh so that's pretty obvious as well. it's obvious when they, when what 3 of their own soldiers were tried to surrender. speaking hebrew, yelling, and he broke. they were shot down. it shows the mentality, a mattress, the government, but as a society, i'm afraid your line. oh, i don't know how many i've lost count blink and going to the middle east. i don't know. this is like a netflix series. they just can't be, you know,

it cancels okay. and it's just boring. okay. um, i think it's a complete fraud. i think it's a complete act. um, you know, these, these like he gets in front of a podium and says how much he cares about children. well, how can someone say that when we've seen all what we have seen and continued to see, i think it's an act. i think it's a fraud, lionel, to please ask me a simple question for you. i want to scream and obviously at the end of our discussion of the big no, no, we need more time. i must say something. i'll never forget. the most important words of tolstoy who said history would be a wonderful thing. if only it were true. we have a sketch of frantic reference to history, some history. we like some history. we don't want to. we, we love to hear about. i heard somebody who saw so, but somebody who held up a bible and said this is our, this is our deed. i'm thinking, oh my gosh, this is not, this is not going to be effective. we're gonna be arguing biblical real estate here . and that's one thing. the other thing which is interesting was recently,

i don't think i especially remember our mainstream media or hanging on derrick. they've called a co, they've straight line. yeah. decades it. yep. the other day, when tucker carlson, held the world spell bound by asking by meeting with vladimir putin and the world was waiting for the count down, i've seen people realize whole li, wow. this is a new world because of people on the internet of platforms, people 5 years ago, i think we've talked about these names like finkelstein, who was the d. b cooper of the dark web. and this guy was just, absolutely absent it more and more people from more and more platforms are talking about this and, but also keep your eye on what's happening to the once explosive and promising bobby kennedy trajectory. who was going to be this, you know, left and right, who,

by the way, has been biased in some respects of some of left. it left a young circles found that his adherents and his reputation of the is rarely side of the, of the argument is going to hurt him politically. so americans and biting in the left and the right or wrong can, can live in this bubble and just kind of a goldfish bowl they want. but the world is speaking completely differently. i'm, i'm, i'm talking to you when i'm going to be done with this wonderful conversation and go back to my fish bowl, where i live, i'm thinking, are you people out of your mind? do you not know what everybody and i mean everybody is saying and, and it's that it's, it's that cone of silence. oh, but i live, i think maybe michael, you know, i'm a little bit more optimistic considering how pessimistic our situation is here. we're not talking about a poll tax, we're not talking about, you know, the, the, the speed limits on the free way. okay. now we're talking about really

fundamentally human issues. and up until recently we never even used the word genocide in terms of current events. things have changed really fundamentally. well i, i right as long as netanyahu isn't power, i don't have that much hope because there's no one to stand. it is way. he's beginning to sound like the nazis that the jews ran well escaped from. he's talking, he's how people have been writing my my, my cold like, oh you're, you're proving my point. you're just proving my point right now saying something like that in a, in september of last year was unheard of. now i hear this all of the time, the discourse is changing, keep going. yes he, he wants to eliminate the palace standing and say, what's the go? one way. he doesn't care how he wants to read. he has, he has pushed this entire madness to biblical proportions. busy and, and re established what he believes to be, what god had,

has given to the jewish people. when you get to that kind of frenzy outlook. it's hard to stop somebody except uh, to take them out. 11 way or the other. and this man has gone over the top and there's nobody to stop him. right, well, well, i'm not, i'm not, i'm not sure completely convinced of that stephen. you know, this is one thing that october 7th and it was a tragedy and atrocities were committed. let's make no mistake, but israel's invincibility is been shattered. it's deterrence has been shattered. and it's boiling for a war with lab and on i now i think it's inevitable, but there will be a more that this is really high stakes stuff. okay. the us consent aircraft carriers, but you don't want there to aircraft carriers can sink. okay, we're building up to something very, very big and it's very ex,

essential. stephen. uh, s. then jimmy, nathaniel starts a war was up on and we're talking about something big. we're talking about his beloved, we're talking about a group where he tre, we're talking about a group. well, uh well what the nice, we're not talking about some small missiles and lebanese made or. busy sophisticated mr. like they're using good stuff and they, and there's this thing that you've been seeing just so can the imagine what will happen to the north occupied land. uh, by this time, uh, israel and the center like a lot of even other cities. what's what happened from the pop, the missile power and the power of his beloved rock, talking about the speed team. his people been speaking the whole region. and uh then a, she's a lot of talking about the reason war that i like the principal not are not going to leave his bundle by itself. even if the americans inter, we are talking about you don't have interfering celia in therapy. any, you're off into a feeling well talking,

something masters. yeah. but they've been driven to make it even, even though you've painted a very bleak picture. i can make it even more bleak for you. is that the u. s. will go along with it. it, it can't do it. otherwise it doesn't know how to stop line. and let me go to you do again, you're kind of my so mom in or upper uh, american public opinion. i mean, do people realize how dangerous the situation we're in right now? no. this is, i'm, i'm, i'm sorry to keep saying this because you, i, again, we live in it and i'm talking about the average and, and by the way, well, intended, good people, a gentleman, there is something that happens in, in my country here, that whatever the word war happens, we feel almost invincible. we are back in straight or, and we point to the heavens and we stand for liberty and we have this a deal. and this like, but do you understand the moving parts here?

do you understand who these people are? and i try my, but let me just say very quickly, is it? can you imagine just let me ask you if one day there is a knock on the door, you're in italy. if somebody knocks on the door, it says, hi, this is my land. now i'm from brooklyn, this is my, so let me just stop right there. how would you feel? and you, you view, they look at me sometimes and they're thinking, i know you're gonna laugh. i know you're gonna laugh. what i'm telling me is they're saying, well, what is, is that going on? i'm thinking, oh my god, yes, that is what's been going on for 75 years. now, remember somebody as, as mirrors? i'm or says there's something called realism. i met say right or wrong, i'm telling you the way it is. this is what people are thinking, not which why not? who's correct? but if you're laboring under a delusion, irrespective of your side and you've got weapons including nuclear weapons, you but you're start paying attention to what the heathers. yeah. that,

that would be the one of the big drawbacks here. michael, you finish off the last 30 seconds here. if you disagree or just called an anti semite, that's still a very potent weapon. go ahead, michael. what else i can? yeah, in my case, it's hard to call me as a actually, so i might, since i am one. however, it's the reality is i see what that yahoo has done. i know the history and i also understand what it's going to lead to. and it's, and he's no better than the nazis that they ran away from. i can't get over this the way they are treating the palestinians today. it is outrages and intolerable. well everyone, well, we're all on record of what we said as what was happening. i have a clear conscience, gentlemen, that's all the time we have wanted to take my guess and rest in new york and without the yeah, and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here in our d. c. a next time. remember, across the

the, the russian states never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community, best of all sense and the same assistance must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin. yep. mission, the state on russia to day and split the ortiz full neck, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube, the fitness center. for what question did you say it would twist,

which is the starting with the latest news? the west has read the verdict, the crumbling said western politicians are making denigrating at unacceptable is often followed the dep appointment to the lack of it. i like getting up on it as on the investigation is still along the way. you craig is through the southern district on the phone lines with its close all id. that is page attributing blade to a lack of legal aid from washington. the biggest minutes here is not tailoring tanks, but coming kazi drones. and when the visibility stays good, this whole neighborhood is the prowling ground at russia bowl says it's forces that