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tv   Going Underground  RT  February 18, 2024 8:30pm-9:00pm EST

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of course, have apparently been otherwise occupied, squabbling over the size of its carbon footprint. those of the past weeks, biggest stories had to our website or to come from one use coverage and analysis. i'm a day show, our josh going underground is up. next. the the i'm asked sooner than say, welcome back to going on the ground broke out single, around the world from the middle east today, the so called world cool to get inputs, a u. s. u u k. on israel, on trial for another genocide like case, tens of thousands, mostly women and children have been killed by nature, weapons,
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and gaza. while russia and china repeatedly voted the un security council for sci fi, egypt is now wary of his riley ethnic cleansing, of more than a 1000000 palestinians at the rough crossing. it's opposed in public, even by joe biden. and these western european proxies whose bottoms have now attacked iraq, syria, human lebanon, and palestine professor at the time, was given the lifetime achievement award by the british academy, author of the new book, 3 wills, memoirs of an arab, julie's america's professor of international relations at oxford, university consisted one of israel's new historians. you joins me now from oaks, which thank you so much for visitors trying for coming on the show. so. well, i used to be with you. you said that the industrial scale small as a may have taken israel to the verge of committing genocide. why the verge on want evidence you so far? i've seen in recent days as well. because i made these comment by some time ago when there was some doubt. but today i have not
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hesitate action in saying that what user id is doing does all amounts to genocide. genocide is defined by the prevention of genocide. convention is the attempt intestinal attempt to destroy info. oh you taught and they actually grew. and this is precisely what israel is doing. and for some time these really is been consuming ethnic tenzing on the west bank. and now they want to to the speak, tennessee of guys as well. and the forcible displacement of civilians is a whole crime. so that can be no doubt about the fact that p 0 has been committing
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all crimes by telling civilians to against the will. and i'm the one to 2300000 people in gun. so israel has already forced 1 of them to move south north ones. but 1st the 0 to the civilians can move from south to the center. then from the center to the south, then further instead of a south and miles out, most of the civilians about the 1000000 and the cop concentrated in rafa on the border full of egypt. and so that's the kind of thing is beyond dispute. um the general side, some people may dispute, but the lady is really expect holocaust study. it said that this is a smoke k textbook case of general song. and you don't have
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to listen to the expense or to me, look at the really think national court of justice, which said that south africa has made a plausible case of genocide. yeah, i want to get on that. i want to return to his early in the 2nd, but then if it is, then obviously the last all the cost was involving germany, co conspirator cases. then, i mean, no one is acting as of the genocide convention mandates. does that mean an open the way for britain, so napkin and, and binding in the united states and as live on the land as co conspirators given bail pouring the weaponry without which the genocide could not take place. and i believe that the breaching and other european countries while supplying is rather with weapons, the country seat in these rows for crimes. that is for america.
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i would like to go further and say that the america is not just complete, and these are annual crimes, any in genocide, but the very cases, the enabler of these really gym, assigned. and i say these for 2 reasons. one is that the international community um the while ago wanted to order the complete a comprehensive ceasefire. and there was a resolution to that you said in the security council. so if you members voted for the resolution, beecham epstein and the united states use the veto. and um, and um, uh, re to this resolution. so we could just head a ceasefire, but for america who prevented the seas file. and secondly, the america continues to supply with friends and relations to israel in
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america, could threaten to withhold with them, said munitions. and these are, i don't have no choice but to stop the fighting. so the very top is doubly guilty of dissipation, active participation in the israeli genocide in um, gaza. and it is probably for this reason that joe biden is on himself and unique day, which is a genocide. jo. well, as you know, they are quite open about the fact in the united states and still bug of nature that this will improve the job situation in the, in the united states, increasingly scarred by disparities of power and wealth. actually comparisons between the nazi war economy and the massive pumping of billions of tax dollars
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into the united states economy in terms of manufacturing artillery shells with which to mass mother children in the middle east. it's this not to make any comparisons between nazi germany and israel. it's best to look at. is there a threat code in america's record? it's bad enough so we don't need to draw any comparisons. and we don't need to exaggerate the scale of these railey destruction and college in the gaza sleep space is for the american or economy. it's always being the case that the weapons manufacturer is located in the south of the united states in republican areas. love israel, because america, do you see a stroke $3800000000.00 in milly trade
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a here. so this means the american taxpayer as money goes to israel as a guam and comes back as a proceed to the american military industrial complex. that's number one, number 2, because the cell is with the state of the art equipment and the other states. when can we address the balance? we'll catch up to some extent and therefore by american weapons. so if somebody makes a profit off the floor and it's the warlords, they, it's the military industrial complex in america, which is always supported, was everywhere. for this reason, they supported the war enough, danny stein, and they supported the invasion or from you out in 2003, iraq where of course you were born. the reason i mentioned the nazis is because
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genocide that the world code is so red and all that not the experience of, of course, i mean we're lender of was one the prior occasion. but of, of course it's the cause that costs the shadow when $1.00 starts talking about genocide is 81 years since the was we'll get to uprising a 10th of those who are being killed in guys of a were killed. of course, the use of the word resistance in the, in the way media talks about it in britain where you live. how do you see the debate about what is justified is resistance for some reason your, your prime minister, so neck a continues to say is realize the right of self defense, which cause it doesn't given, isn't occupying, pass. do you think they understand the historical perils? i promised just enough did not see comparison question. do they understand the historical barrels with the war?
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so get through uprising that they must be the north of this the, the panel is but now do they understand the international, which is quite clear on the subject. but assume i can install, repeat pirates like what by doing says they never move really made to from the american position. and they keep repeating. the israel has the right to defend it. so, but he doesn't, because i'm to international. you'll have the right to defend your so if you are attacked by the state, but from us is not a state. secondly, if the attack comes from an area that you occupied, then you don't have the right to a self defense. to put it simply, you don't have the right to self defense against the people that your chris more of
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a. it's a mouse. if the palestinian is eaten goes out, who will have the right to resist of the occupation, including the resistance. so international low is quite clear that the 0 doesn't have the right to self defense. in this case, what's the state of freedom in your country? because you're an m and into scholar at oxford university. i've talked to other oaks and professors on this program actually, who had talked about the scale of debate events and help them listed in, in britain. what is your understanding of the freedom of speech in britain and in western europe given? you mentioned storm a globally, people who have know who he is, but he is the person who was promoted by jeremy colbin. the then leader of the
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opposition labor policy and do it says the things, things like what you've been telling me in this interview are mc. somebody take you through his mounted a global campaign to be legitimize the supporters of the vs, or quote divestment sanctions, which is the global breast foot. don't pay to end the occupation. and this is a non violent global civil society campaign. it's non violent. i stress that all the main, the minds of the this in trying you mean to national the right of free to, of the 1948 refugees, the right of the senior citizens of the state of israel to uh, uh, a quote to equality that and um and then default your patient,
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that's the most important of the box. well, he's, i'm trying to need some action a little, but he's real and it's many friends around the world's point that i'll come back to the campaign against critics. so p as well, the width m i n t, somebody please them and embrace them very uh, the government has adopted the international total cost memorial association, different nation off semitism. and it's a non, definitely nation. it's completely does not use. and the definition itself is useless. it doesn't define anything but then to a series of 11 examples or make a list of what made a cost acute anti semitism. and $711.00 examples relate to each through the aim of these. um, definition is not to protect you is a game,
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so i have to send me to them, but protect these well against legitimate criticisms of the occupation. so after so many people as being way per night in europe, in germany, in america ending the united kingdom. and the government in this country is time down on pro palestinian protest. professor ivy sure i'm i'll stop you best or from the author of 3 worlds. memoirs of an hour of jew optimist. break the the the, the welcome back to going on. the guy that i'm still here with america is professor international
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relations at oxford university. professor ivy shribel 3 of 3 wills ma'am, was when i heard you present time. we said in but one we were talking about this i conflation of anti semitism have designed, isn't it? affect clearly those countries that express solidarity with the palestinians, suffering your birthplace. bagdad was formed in the past few days, weeks by british and american. the bomb is a, syria, or of course is being bomb. gammon is being bombed. it's even more serious for countries that expressed all of that already. then for scholars there, i said, any examples that you personally have had that you witness a lack of freedom and you're not being able to speak on these issues. or are you given free reign in the british media to tell us about your views as regards what we're witnessing as regards the gaza genocide? i mean, i have been the professor international relations at tops that for the last
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36 years. and no i'm, that's my university as a tried to restrict my freedom of expression and i still enjoy. ready as i've always enjoyed complete freedom to express my opinions as i am doing to you in this interview now. but the general picture in the country is not so science. we don't. the general picture is that the british government is extremely repressive and it keeps bossing legislation, even though the truth street suite on expression on israel and on the palestinian issue. and the goblin keeps giving the police more powerless to come down on pro palestinian. but is the government there was a major,
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major purpose, seeing a protest in london a few weeks ago. and i went with my wife and my daughter. they were something like 800000 demonstrators. i don't see any, hey. so if you move all those, those are very good spirited off for our friend displayed, or solely diety, with the palestinians, both of them on 6th street. so a brother of mine said the piece was i think to mount and she wanted the police stop them out the police to the credit refuse to. so we have an extremely repressive government, which is the enemy of civil rights and which is a blind support, or if he's a go to the on quickly to support a fee as well. and that is a situation here today i have and i cannot complain that nicely done with this being restricted. but i've also had one encounter which is
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kind of super symptomatic of the going in toners of both supporters of palestine in this country. i was invited to give a lecture by leave a poor hope university on the subject of my men moss. and the title was design is and the jews of the rock, the personal prospective, a great deal of skill and narrow topic. and yet jews even leave a poor complaint to the university. i'm sorry to use that this would be on safe, and it raised my top would raise purpose of safety. and the university didn't ask me to cancel the lecture, but they asked me to postpone it. and i would find right away, i said okay, i wouldn't come now and i was never time to go into the city because this is not
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an issue of safety. it's an issue of academic freedom. so academic freedom in britain is being eroded all the time for critics of israel and for supporters or from palestinian right. and the best example i can give you, of these trend in britain is the decline and fall off. jeremy called in the previous lead to the labor party who was praying, who was accused of anti semitism was an empty, racy, stopped paying all these life including proposing to semitism. there wasn't any evidence that gays to happen. so it is, he's actually mean he's been on this program and arguably he started firing people that were close to him on those fake to trump, the bad,
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these images and charges it has to be said on israel. again, one of the arguable founding minutes was that it was a safe place for jews. so do you think actually given isabel is now giving me the most dangerous plays in the world for jews? do you think that we on the some see minds are really nothing yahoo and those who enable his government in the bank complaints, being jewish with being is riley. i do think that and which i'm, you know, who is a very good example of this combination because many of his friends i could see might like greek to open in hungry like the previous government. even poland, the previous government in brazil. these went on to see mites, but the pro israel and therefore let them yeah. who doesn't care about anyone,
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please anti semitic, as long as the pro is riley. and this reminds me of something that field or how it so the vision we have literally state wrote in my name's diarrhea at the end of the 19th century. he said the mtc minds will become of the strongest supporters. and we're seeing this phenomenon today that i'm israel, that got mixed up with very nasty company. and this is a slightly different point. these real supplies um, um inside the um, equipment. and um, you stopping equipment on photos to along to it and drove countries on the world, including including some of the most repressive regimes. so these are plays
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a global role. you're supplying weapons. and spyware too. so large range of fascist countries. you write about your background in baghdad, in your latest book, what does it make you feel? knowing your government in britain is bombing iraq. again, i am absolutely horrified by british policy towards these very palestinian phone 3 and this is just one example of the contemporary example, but it's a whole fleet. each policy towards these really protesting conflict is this is computer also is computer rubbish. it doesn't make any sense because peter says that the 2 parties should negotiate directly the resolution of the conflict
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between them. that's the home being any peace stokes for 10 years. israel, the president galvan refuses to have any peace stokes, with the palestinians, and to say the 2 parties should get together to resolve the differences. is like putting a lion in, arrive between the cage and telling them to um, sort of the defenses. the 2 state solution, you have changed your level now and recognize that actually only a one state solution is possible. what do you feel and people completely ignore the idea of a one state solution and continue to as joe biden does as a nature of nation, lead has continued to do what is wrong with them going on and on about this 2 state solution. as i used to support the 2 state solution, which would have given the measure of justice to the palestinians. and since
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1967, this being the broadest possible international consensus between the 2 states behind the idea of a 2 state solution. and it says, become fashionable to say that the deuce said solution is that it is indeed that because these ro, she'll be used for al kill date by building supplements and expand the supplements on the waste time and by and exceed east jerusalem. and by building the circles, separation will, on the west bank, the separation war is closed behind the apartheid war. so use rel, eliminated the cost of the, the t o, for example, palestine estate, all the, to the left of the products. the males on the west bank is inc. have surrounded by
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use regularly settlements and military bases. so i say my starting point, now you said this 2 state solution is dead and these are all has to be a good for her to say. the 2 state solution was never bone because it was never born because nobody's really done. when since 1967 is a offered a palestinian state on times, that would be acceptable to the most moderate esteem and liter. the 1st of all, and secondly, no american government is a push this through into a to a state of solution. so this is just a convenient phrase o people like buying them. some of them delayed and they keep the balance at 2 state solution. but the reality is that you come to have a 2 state solution and that's why i have change my views. and now i support
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the only the product solution to this conflict, which is one state from the jordan river to do me to a nancy with equal rights. equal rights for all the citizens, regardless of nationality. office needs to be all religion. yeah. i think the only way i think you are a police force is over there. don't seem to realize that the, from the river to the c means for jews, christians and wisdom is just finally you mentioned the apartheid will. nelson mandela strategy was, of course violence, and the great mount to bridge on the peaceful, much great bunch of bridge, and resulted in tens of thousands killed by u. s. u k. u um the weapons at that border of outside war. what, what would you do if you were a palestinian teenager right now in gaza? would you, uh, would you go with mandela? would you go with gundy a little?
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i would go leave monday that and i would put my trust in civil society because i have no confidence that the western governments would change the position on israel. but there is a gap. there is a disconnect between wisdom, governments and the publics. the publics are increasingly pro palestinian, the demonstrations thrown the arab world and these nomic with the rest of the world in support of the palestinians. so public opinion shifting very, very dramatically now because of the genocide in gaza against these around any favor of the products being used. and therefore, i would, um i have i seen that the brother steam is the only hope
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of the best hope is that public opinion will continue to change and the international criminal court will take action. we're pursuing investigational will crime scene the occupied territories and that the international court of justice will eventually issue an opinion which would told israel to be guilty of genocide professor every time. thank you you too bye. that's it for the show of continued condolences to those surviving the getting and guys of jerusalem 11 and iraq human and syria will be back with the brand new episodes and saturday until then keep in touch. why will that social media, or if it's not sensitive in your country, and that's what channels going on the ground tv, hon. don't come to what you handled episodes of going undergrad, ccf the
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hello, and welcome to the cost of full. or here we discuss and we'll look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings. accept we're such short or is it conflict with the 1st law? show alignment as a patient, we should be very careful about visual intelligence at the point, obviously is to craig trust, rather than to the various job with the artificial intelligence, we have somebody with him and the robot must protect this phone. existence was on the
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rush. it takes full control of the strategic city of, of the guy in the do nets for public following months of field options. but so you create interest withdrawing after the suffering significant lossless also ahead get to another week of dead. the idea of strikes on the policy being an enclave, including the devastating rates that killed more than 15 know close to the alleged say of saving to is ready hostages. the candidate is gripped by furious protest against the nets in yellow government. this thousands of his readings demand another thing, cya end christmas talk deal with the concepts while also calling for new election.

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