how far the united states can get in its desire to attack venezuela. then as well as putting pressure on international organizations, in addition to a panel for the truth, for justice. and for that, we will use all our allies, all our partners to be able to demonstrate this to both minnes trust trust. the country physician, a gas unilateral sanctions, is driven not only by the harm uh, very concrete harm that those sanctions inflicts on the economies. and on the people of those countries, but also because they ultimately undermine the very nature of the very basis of international law. because the law is only law when it's universally, when teens and respected when it's applied. uh, single handedly when it's applied only by some countries against others becomes a tool of individual countries, policies. and this is something that can not be sustain. well, thanks very much for your company handled the news. our nic aaron will be here the

next hour, bringing new live updates. so know the stories we've been covering because we control the the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, american investor, david sacks as to ukraine complexes based on paul search and to see about how it started and how it's going and how it will head on this edition of the programs we examine all 3 propositions,

the cross, how can you create? i'm joined by my guess dan kabbalah can pittsburgh. he is a professor of law, an author of the plot to escape code russia in salt lake city. we have david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. and invalid, we cross the carlos out. he is a political analyst. his story and, and host of the silk and steel podcasts are gentlemen across stock roads in effect, that means you can jump any time in want, and i always appreciate it. i'm going to go 1st, the dan, i mean, i really like how do, uh, the, the investor, mr. sax of broke it down into 3 parts. so let's look at the 1st one. how does the complex start and ukraine? because he's saying that western media is preventing allies false hood and defeat. go ahead, den. yeah. well 1st of all, as you know, i've been to the don bass twice in the last year. and really

a lot of it centers around there that the, the conflict really began in 2014, with the 2 against a democratically elected government and tia, but to that, the us back. right. when government came to power, which is very hostile towards its russian, ethnic and speaking populations, particularly in the east, particularly in the dawn bass. and when the dog bass denied skin lu hogs uh, became alarmed about where the country was headed. they declared their independence of from t a with the referendum and t have began to shell an attack. yeah. but then i thought i thought it all started one morning in february of 2020 to the rushes, suddenly attacked. you great, that's the narrative that we get in the west there. that it's a not a true narrative already by then 14000 people had died in that conflict between

t evan and the don bass and russians. intelligence was that uh, a key. i was preparing for an invasion uh, a ground invasion of, of the dom bass and a russian decided it could not allow that. okay, wait, wait, i have that for me. oh, i see. you don't even need that from a residence, or is this a david in salt lake city? i mean, when we, when we look at the origins of the complex, very little is said about how the ukranian military had been nato allies, were you hadn't on nato advisors, recognizance, i mean, everything you need for a more modern army was being pumped in there at a furious rate that's never mentioned in the narrative visit david, you know, it's not, uh, we had about $1000.00 data troops including, you know, of course, the south county c. i a operatives training and the pretty military we were training and at the rate of $10000.00

a year. we had 80000 sure and data trained troops and you can see creating our media. so forms kind of the lead forces of, uh, the deeper in for me and uh, uh, we were, we had joint military exercises with uh, between nato and ukraine inside of ukraine. it was for new freight. and uh, and then finally we had a uh bite and signed a, uh, a squeegee, strategic partnership agreement between us and, and ukraine, which of course was able to guess russian and all these were a necessary publications. as was just stated in this conflict, really again with the, the 2014 coo that was authorized by a then vice president by a binding really is the common denominator in is starting this war. and that's why a long been referred to this war as binds were, rather include as well. and it'd be part ways the made it before. it was by a way to say it was makes for it was victoria newlands war. i told i kept calling

it back in 2014 was carl and involving one another issue that is not mentioned it is that in this, in december 2021 before the conflict in february 2022, russia basically sent out its terms saying, we we want to avoid a conflict here, but we will react to military and technical re means and that was completely ignored. again, not part of the narrative. carl, the exactly is like, uh, this is board and pointed out during his tucker crossing interview. grandma harris actually went to europe and said, hopefully get the balance that ukraine should be walk them into natal. i mean, the 2017 is when the work broke out, but it's really a cumulation of the study nato expansion use words since 1992, which is really, i mean it's, it's the whole purpose was to justify virginia exist as a natal optical. busy you know, nato was formed against soviet union,

so the union collapsed. russian wanted to be friends with the west, but all the nato bureaucrats realize, wait a minute, they're going to be out of jobs. so it's all about jobs is all about jobs, and it's about money and, and hubris. so i would say ok then let's take a look at the 2nd question. how is the war going? well, according to the munich security conference, that ended up last week. so everything is basically on court. it's a, it's tough, you know, tough times ahead and all that. but russia is losing ukraine is winning again. what's wrong with that narrative then? yeah, no rush, it has steadily gain ground in this war very methodically and slowly but that's their strategy. i mean they like israel and gaza. busy rushes actually taken great pains not to destroy a civilian infrastructure and kills civilians. and so they have slowly but surely gained a regions in the eastern ukraine. and they have

widowed away at the ukraine, you know, army to the point where frankly, you know, as we know, you cranes been forced to now can script people off the street, elderly people and disabled people because they have no one else left by. and um, you know, they're always on the verge of being out of munitions as well. even the west nato was running out of munitions because of this war rush i, i think, is, it could be said to be handily winning this war. it could when it overnight, if it wanted to again, if it wasn't the carpet bomb key of like again the u. s. and 8 or willing to carpet bomb, you know, survey or whatever. they could do that, but they don't, you know, dan, but it's really interesting is that zalinski and he's a jet set or he gets the fly all over the place of these fancy conferences, but they are poor. it is still open in care of has been during the entire conflict and it hasn't been bombed. okay. and this is something that has ever pointed out it, you know, david, what's really interesting, again,

mentioning the munich security conferences, that according to zelinski, they're, they, they're, that they're facing challenges because of the republicans in the house of representatives that watch with you. you know, it does, it certainly is the us is primarily responsible for prolonging this war. uh, there was, of course, the a simple peace agreement which was 90 percent complete as president not line to reduce dr. crossing interview. and then it was a, you know, this, this was a very favorable agreement towards a, towards you pray. what does that entail the entire control russian forces outside of the don boston, crimea. premier of course, really was always russian, but the dog boss was much disputed. and uh, you know, this was, uh, this was actually really the ideal argument. this is kind of the, that was the piece agreement, essentially that i would argue that biden's trying to get back to that, but he wouldn't be too asleep project. and so he,

to repeat of that be prior to that, you know, somebody gets agreements that was really an ideal that, uh, a free brain that, that was champ. i mean, now of course, it's in arms disagreements. and obviously security meant that, that i called for back in september of 2022 and the national interest, you know, my own real worth of stack. and you know, that is, that is really the key. that is the key to, you know, a piece of it is an instance without pictures. a, you know, you pray, or you, franklin smid as victory. nato can spend the victory. of course, it's more of a victory for russia overall, but it's uh, it would be 18 percent of your grades that are actually recognized territory in neutrality, outside of nato. and those would be the 2 main terms. and most of those terms are, you know, obviously neutrality as sort of made it was something that, uh, so lensky, belatedly agreed to the day after the invasion. so yeah, no, yeah, it's all, it's all matters coming,

coming back to common sense and us down to peace and stability for the region. unfortunately, we're not there yet. we won't be for a long time. you know, carl, what we have here is that i think we've had over the last few weeks and ritual countries like germany, france, the u. k. signing security agreements with ukraine. i don't know why they're doing it in the middle of a conflict. they don't know what re crane they're actually talking about. and this is, you know, and on top of it, instead of trying to secure as much funding as i can from the west. nobody is talking piece, at least in the west. nobody in nato is coughing piece. that is the biggest problem here. exactly. i mean, the problem is not funded. the united states can pres money up to the was used for the problem is us. and to a certain extent, europe has been sold to industrialize that they can not even provide artillery

shells for you credit, you know, united states have over the altogether, dear trillion dollars the military budget. and yet, it can change even produce strawman military goods that needed to win was a slight artillery shots. russia alone is all producing the desired made. will country combined right now is the ukraine is, i mean the objective observer of the conflict will tell you your brain is losing away. busy it's more hours class and it's manpower is being depleted now they're talking about sending refugee ukrainian man from the back of your to, to, to, to be drafted. and they're talking about scripting women. i mean, how could, how could you create when there's no tactful victory for your brain at this point? well, i mean, but, but they seem to think, um, the people in nato world think that, you know, 60 $1000000000.00. well, they'll be there just around the corner. i cannot conceive dan, real quick. i can't even, even if they got the money, what did they go to do with it? they?

yeah, again, they don't have the troops anymore in the, in the morales thinking, i mean, i think honestly this war will be over, i'm predicting by the end of the summer whether they send the $60000000000.00 or they go, well, yeah, i mean, but of course this is supposed to be money that will go into potentially the next administration. so they want, it seems to me the arms dealers and all the a cut out to the n v o's. they want a secured of funding into 2025. they think that's what it seems more about. always gentlemen, it's never really about ukraine, is it? it's all about the money. it's all about the grip or a gentleman. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go and go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with our team.

the, in 1884. the german empire began its colonial invasion. internet may be from the very start. berlin encourage the white colon is to settle in south west africa and take away the best land from the local drive. the germans were actively draining natural resources and using the local population as a cheap labor source. this was causing major protest and led to rebuild your in 19 o 4 here arrow and now my drive is rebuild against the german colonial rule. kaiser wilhelm the 2nd was fully determined and ordered to suppress the rebellion with the utmost severity against the inhabitants of nam may be germany through its 15000 well equipped army all around the country got and for agent games were built in

humane medical experiments over citizens were conducted within the period of 4 years, the german scaled up to 60000 people among weights. there were 80 percent of the here railroad tribe, and 50 percent of the number dr. the events in south west africa are called the 1st genocide of the 20th century and not without reason. park compared to the whole of cost just $2.00 decades later after the massacre in nam may be a hitler to solve unit foot on the same round colonial uniform which puts the world into the chasm of the 2nd world war. the welcome back. across stock were all things are considered on peter lavelle to mind you were discussing. you create the

ok. it's go back to david in salt lake city a. let's go to the 3rd proposition, how the war will and well, it's really difficult to grapple with this one. because if you look at the official narrative rush, i lost a half a year ago, but they're still looking for money to keep ukraine propped up. i mean, they can't even get that talking point straight. go get rushes already lost. so ukraine is winning. i mean, and, you know, when you, with all the social media right now, these telegram channels here, it's really hard. i mean, if you have even a passing interest in, in the topic, it's quite obvious that this official narrative is know, and boy, david yes, absolutely, right. i mean, you create as lost nearly 30 percent of its g p. that was 27 percent of us population 18 percent of its territory. they polasta, according to the most reasonable and moderate estimates of half a 1000000 troops dead, are seriously wounded, which is about 3 times higher than what rushes lost in rocky by a single square ridge of rough in territory. i mean,

there's literally no metrics that nato could use uh to, to judge that, uh, you agree is wayne or, yeah, we can see that here. you know, you're, this is nonsense. uh, i mean uh, zalinski recently stated that the ukraine military consists of 600000 active duty trips until recently it was 1300000. so it could, the casualties actually could be over 50 percent. it could be $700000.00 ukrainians, killed or seriously wounded. so it, this has been a disaster for you. creighton, i'm preparing to write a new article that nearly completed, but it should be coming to knowledge it any unbiased observer that this has been a disaster. this whole of the sola, you pray, nato membership or sued has been really just irrational. it's been absolutely give us the address of the, of the printers in a very much. so it gets the us national security interest as well, which is peace with russia. we ought to be a, have

a strategic partnership with rational along the lines of uh, what was proposed in december uh by uh, the russian federation with their uh, mutual security agreement which was made on which was very faint, which was absolutely acceptable. uh it as written and uh as well as the one that was offered us, which are 75 percent acceptable. yeah, and carl, what they did a because for, for russia, it has been day 2 expansion and even the head of nato salt and birds. he admitted this finally, belatedly. he wouldn't say it honestly for the uh, good part of the complex, but he came out and maybe it was unintended on his part. we don't know, but he even admitted a rush. it started, it's military operations because of nato expansion. so what did they do? they expand nato. i think be the you've already mentioned tucker carlson is interview with vladimir putin and again he was asked point blank uh, how would you like to see a ceasefire? would you like to see an end of this conflict?

and the russian president said, yes, yeah. okay, i mean, i don't know what else you can do. i mean, the most watched interview in the world. if you have a passing interest in this, you know what rushes position is, b k because it came from the president, smiled himself. but that, of course, was ignored. carl, are exactly, it's brand new right now. it's still secure. the leading washington and europe, that's driving the war. you know, we know what happened during the negotiation to do that. the early phase of negotiation to the end, the war and horace johnson came in and tell them you cry. no, no, no. we will back you a 100 percent and right out, even if the west to back ukraine, 100 percent, and ukraine still cannot achieve victory. as i said earlier, the united states has been sold the industrialized, you cannot provide ukraine was the, did the munition it needs, was there totally shout?

you need us. can people frame money by proctor certain point? they're just papers, you know what you can set 60000000000 dollars worth of paper to you credit. that's not going to help you bring quote. uh, well, actually car only ends up mostly coming back to the suburbs in virginia. okay. at the end of the day, i mean it, it's a griff, it's a huge griffin. i think that's why a lot of these people are pushing the 6 me with billions because they know it's the last time they're going to be able to feed at the trough. okay, so they want to get paid in advance. okay. it's a is a cynical. yeah. but this whole idea, this whole complex is so cynical, it's the most avoided avoidable conflict in my lifetime. and i've seen a lot of conflicts. you know, dan, what's really interesting and we can throw in the, the gods a dimension here. and look at this kind of globally, is that you have the west on the wrong side of issues. ok, you have the united states in europe. so supporting a, a racist regime and, and cab

a racist regime in israel. and the whole world can see this dance to know it's absolutely right. i was listening to george galloway this. busy morning and he said, you know, the west, the sun is now setting in the west and it is now rising in the east, which is very clear as you say, the whole world sees the difference in how russia prostitutes this war, new crane. and now israel prosecutes the war and guys, a, i think this statistic i saw was that about less than $600.00 children have died in the special military operations in ukraine. meanwhile, you already have something like 15000 children who died in gaza and intentionally so it's a brutal, brutal campaign that's happening in gaza in a very short period of time. we also have to, you know, recognize as opposed to, you know, we're now what,

2 years in to the conflict and ukraine if we started from the beginning, the special military operation. so yes, it's very clear that uh, any uh, superior moral, superior or the, the west could ever climb. and that was always a dubious proposition. it can't claim it anymore. you know, it's a david, i had a look at, does zalinski speech in, in munich. and it will, it would be hilarious, larry. so if it weren't so pathetic, is it he was using, talking points from the secretaries. they blank and you know, the rules based order and i just thought, here's your cut. you have no freedom of speech in your country, you'll be political opposition. political parties are banned. you have this news telephone on a propagandizing. you can no one can leave your country. i mean, what rules based order is he talking about maybe the same rules based old or the blinking things when he thinks of gaza? i don't know, david, what do you think of yeah, i agree. i think uh, so the rules based order, you know,

apply as always to other countries does apply for us. uh, the us uh, you know, bobs and the base countries as well. and i'm saying this is a picture of the american. i love america. i think, i think there's still hope for us to get back on track, establish a peace with russia and do so in a, in a way that's a fair adjust. but, you know, i mean, examples of already been given a 3 this uh, this conversation with uh, you know, they, uh, they know part of serbia. yeah. live. yeah. of course. uh the us and be uh, visions of what a rack of get us down which was partially justifying iraq, which was not in, in syria as well. so we have a lot of examples of, of us behaving badly as a bully, a international bully and doing so unprovoked and unjustified in the case of ukraine. yes, it was an illegal invasion, but it was very much perhaps you couldn't have been work about and put in uh,

you know, words stroke for a peaceful diplomatic solution for at least 14, perhaps 15 years prior to the, to the war. couldn't have been, weren't clear, beginning with the speech just in minutes, security conference in 2007. so responded to the bushes threat to, to add the grading in georgia and the data. and it was, uh, you know, i mean again, doing so was completely gives us national security interest. but it was all about expanding america's liberal empire as, as, as in or josh raleigh, bradley calls it a try to expand or square of influence relative to russia's entire western frontier . and that would be unacceptable from it. you know, we need to have more strategic empathy with russia if the united states really interesting people like ourselves, our, our patriotism is question, you know, okay, i, i am a conservative and i think for, and more support interventions or it is not a conservative idea. okay. it's a b, it's these liberal a leads. okay. it's really interesting. people like victoria new and she consult

between republican and democrats or white easily because she's a neil con. okay. they have their own set of values, and it's not the rules based order that i would understand as a conservative. you know, carl, it's, i've always thought that this ridiculous expansion of nato was a to undermine russia, obviously, to throw it out of completely out of europe. you need the sanctions. i'm actually for because it's help the rest is economy is in the, in the soviet union was our talk it anyway. okay. so is russian knows how to adapt here. but the real, the real aim of course, is a challenge. china. and so there are ridiculous child, like a calculation was we knocked out rush and then we take on china. i mean with that kind of calculus. so i thought, you know, they, they were the adults in the room. carl, it is, there is no a 1000 the people in washington all the care about the short term, short term self interest, which is continue to feed the trauma better. the military industrial complex. i'm

given uh, even though sanchez pointed out back in 2011, you set up. the goal is to use of the dentist on 2 watched money out of the tax base of the us and europe draft and it's not a back into the hands of trans national security. meet the goal is an endless war, not as successful awards. so this goes back to what you're saying about quick, you know, big there. at this point. they probably don't even care your things when you crank as long as they can keep you the proxy where it is russia to quote unquote, believe russia at the same time defeat the military industrial complex back and forth. yeah, you know dan, thinking about ending this, this is what me is really kind of problem matic because it's already been mentioned on this program. the men scrub process which the west was deceitful about. we had assemble again the seat, and i don't see any kind of brill agreement to end. it will end on russia's terms at the end of the day. because you can't make an agreement with these people. they

lie and they break their agreements. they even are open about it then. yeah, well, it's all very true. and also we have to remember that this could have been ended in march of 2022 with an agreement that salon sky was, was willing, decided to sign, and which would allow the ukraine to keep box territory ro, hey, i didn't know, dan, let me add to that, okay. they were asking zalinski to agree to something, but he didn't even have any more. the don bass, they were just saying you have to give up the don bass and cry me something ukraine didn't even have at the time. that's how good of a deal it was. damn. it was a good deal in the us and u. k. intervene to stop that agreement from going forward. essentially. russia was offering to do over for the west and they didn't take it. and now you crime will not exist as, as it has, it will, they will not get at least the, for a public said of voted to go with russia. they will never get those back. and that

is firmly on the heads of the leaders of the us. well, i think, you know, ending the program is going to have to be named the country um ben data stand. okay . because it's going to be the european union that is going to have to take care of a, it's going to be a war and it will be a state lit that will have to be supported or a gentleman that's all the time we have a one, i think my g as in bali, pittsburgh and, and such as salt lake city. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are the see you next time and remember prospect rules the, [000:00:00;00] the only one main thing is important for not as an internationally speaking is that is a nation's products are allowed to do anything, all the mazda races,

and then you have the mind, the nation. so all the slaves, americans, rock, obama and others have had a concept of american exceptionalism. international law exist as long as it serves the american interest. if it doesn't, that doesn't exist by turning those russians. and so it is dangerous boy, a man that wants to take over the world. that was the culture strategy. so the, the new one is v i v. i not foolish truth often zuba and tablet block. nato said it's ours. we move east. the reason us, hey jim, it is dangerous. is it the by the sovereignty of the countries, the exceptionalism that america uses and its international war planning is one of the greatest threats to the populations of different nations. of nature where this

founded shareholders in the united states and elsewhere in lots of companies would lose millions and millions or is business businesses good. and that is the reality of what, what we're facing, which is fashion, the upsetting images from garza where the remains of victims. that being recovered from a ca hate by. and it's really like call back in the us the congressman to say the, how the city and should be killed pc further across the streets of dave car pulls exclusively from the hearts of vs