will cover our tractors and the tire as well, to move past the security forces. we will definitely break the barricades. this is our endeavor, this caravan will only stop and deli. it will not stop here. and have the bottom of the thing that they have enough supplies in the trucks and talk to us that would last them for several months. so the, i see also the don't call they're saying the, we're going to stay here with not going back, take as long as you want, but you need to of sit down to watch the mountains. know all 2 more. these don't, don't, the more the government has maintained the degree of profile as the more these government is also problem. file form is developed a to double the found the income. but that is something the pharmacy has not happened and which is why this told us which comes right ahead of the general elections in the country in that sense is also significant. and the talks that unfold over the next few days are going to be very, very crucial. but the bigger question is,

if it's all the formulas will be allowed to march to the national capital, which is in fact fabricated seemed from all 3 borders. speaking to his line from new delhi woods and shaw many thanks to the update or thank you for joining us. hey, on, on the international coming up next piece of level with the latest episode of cross talk and football news. make sure you join me again. the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter level american investor, david sacks as to ukraine complexes based on all sorts and to see about how it started,

how it's going and how it will head on this edition of the program. we examine all 3 propositions, the cross walk in ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, dan kabbalah can pittsburgh. he is a professor of law and author of the plot, the scape goat russia. in salt lake city, we have david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security and invalid. we cross the carlos out. he is a political analyst, his story and and host of the silk and steel podcast. all right, gentlemen, comstock rolls in effect, that means you can jump anytime we want, and i always appreciate it. i'm going to go 1st to dan. i mean, i really like how do, uh, the, the investor, mr. sax of broke it down into 3 parts. so let's look at the 1st one. how did the conflict start and ukraine? because he's saying that western media is preventing allies false hood and defeat. go ahead, den. yeah. well, 1st of all, as you know,

i've been to the don bass twice in the last year and really a lot of it centers around there that the, the conflict really began in 2014, with the 2 against a democratically elected government and t f. a q that the us back right wing government came to power which was very hostile towards its russian, ethnic and speaking populations, particularly in the east, particularly in the dawn bass. and when the dog bass denied skin lu hogs uh, became alarmed about where the country was headed, they declared their independence of from t a with the referendum and he began to shell and attack. yeah. but the day and i thought i thought it all started one morning in february of 2020 to the rush is suddenly attacked. you crate, that's the narrative that we get in the west there. that it's a not

a true narrative already by then 14000 people had died in that conflict between t. evan and the john bass and russians. intelligence was that uh, a key. i was preparing for an invasion uh, a ground invasion of, of the dom bass. and a russian decided it could not allow that. okay, wait, wait, i have that from the oh, i see you don't even need that from a residence or is this a david in salt lake city? i mean, when we, when we look at the origins of the complex, very little a said about how the ukranian military had been nato allies, were, you hadn't on nato advisors reconnaissance. i mean, everything you need for a more modern army was being pumped in there at a furious rate that's never mentioned in the narrative visit david, you know, it's not, uh, we had about $1000.00 data troops including, you know, of course, the south county c. i a operatives training and the pretty military we were training and at the rate of $10000.00

a year. we had 80000 sure and data trained troops. and you can see creating our media to forms kind of the lead forces of, uh, the deeper in for me. and uh, uh, we were, we had joint military exercises with uh, between nato and ukraine inside of ukraine. it was pretty great. and uh, and then finally we had a uh bind, signed a, uh, a squeegee, strategic partnership agreement between us and, and ukraine. which of course was able to guess russia and all these were a necessary publications. as was just stated in this public, really again with the, the 2014 coo that was authorized by a then vice president by a binding really is the common denominator in is starting this war. and that's why i've long been referred to this war as binds were, rather include as well as it'd be part ways we made it before. it was by the way

that it was makes for. it was victoria newlands war. i told i kept calling it back in 2014 with carl and involving another issue that is not mentioned it is that in this, in december 2021. before the conflict in february 2022, russia basically sent out its terms saying we, we want to avoid a conflict here, but we will react to military and technical re means. and that was completely ignored. again, not part of the narrative. carl, the exactly is like, uh, this is bored and pointed out during his tucker crossing interview. grandma harris actually went to europe and said, hopefully get the balance that ukraine should be walk them into natal. i mean, the 2017 is when the work broke out, but it's really a cumulation of the study nato expansion use words since 1992, which is really, i mean it's, it's the whole purpose was to justify the continue existence of natal optical. busy

you know, nato was formed against soviet union, so union collapsed. russian wanted to be friends with the west, but all the nato bureaucrats realize, wait a minute, they're going to be out of jobs. so it's all about jobs is all about jobs and it's about money and hubris. so i would say ok then let's take a look at the 2nd question. how is the war going? well, according to the munich security conference, that ended up last week. so everything is basically on court. it's a, it's tough, you know, tough times ahead and all that, but russia is losing ukraine is winning again. what's wrong with that narrative, dan? yeah, no russian has steadily gain ground in this war very methodically and slowly, but that's their strategy. i mean they like israel and gaza rush is actually taken great pains not to destroy a civilian infrastructure and kills civilians. and so they have slowly but surely

gained regions in the eastern ukraine, and they have widowed away at the ukraine, you know, army, to the point where, frankly, you know, as we know, ukraine's been forced to now can script people off the street, elderly people and disabled people because they have no one else left by and um, you know, they're always on the verge of being out of munitions as well. even the west nato was running out of munitions because of this war rush i, i think, is, it could be said to be handily winning this war. it could when it overnight, if it wanted to. again, if it wanted to carpet bomb key of like again the u. s. and 8 or willing to carpet bomb, you know, survey or whatever they can do that, but they don't, you know, dan, but it's really interesting is that zalinski and he's a jet set or he gets the fly all over the place of these fancy conferences. but they are poor, it is still open in care of has been during the entire conflict, and it hasn't been bombed. okay. and this is something that has ever pointed out it,

you know, david, what's really interesting, again, mentioning the munich security conferences, that according to zelinski, they're the, they're, that they're facing challenges because of the republicans in the house of representatives that watch with you. you know, it does, it certainly is the us as a primarily responsible for prolonging this war. uh, there was of course the a simple peace agreement which was 90 percent complete as president and outline for it is dr. crossing interview. and then it was a, you know, this, this was a very favorable agreement towards a, towards you pray. what does that entail the entire control russian forces outside of the don boston, crimea. premier of course, really was always russian, but the dog boss was much disputed. and uh, you know, this was, uh, this was actually really the ideal argument. this is kind of the, that was the piece agreement, essentially that i would argue that biden's trying to get back to that,

but he wouldn't be too asleep project. and so he, to repeat of that be prior to that, you know, somebody gets agreements that was really an ideal that, uh, a free brain that, that was champ. i mean, now of course it's in arms disagreements and offices agreement that, that i called for back in september of 2022 and the national interest. you know, my own real worth of stack. and you know, that is, that is really the key, that is the key to, you know, a piece of it is an instance without pictures. a, you know, you pray, or you, franklin smid as victory. nato can spin a victory. of course, it's more of a victory for russia overall, but it's uh, it would be 18 percent of all your grades that are actually recognized territory in neutrality, outside of nato. and those would be the 2 main terms. and most of those terms are, you know, obviously neutrality sort of made. it was something that the so lensky belatedly

agreed to the day after the invasion. so yeah, no, yeah, it's all, it's all matters coming, coming back to common sense and us down to peace and stability for the region. unfortunately, we're not there yet. we won't be for a long time. you know, carol, what we have here is that i think we've had over the last few weeks and ritual countries like germany, france, the u. k. signing security agreements with ukraine. i don't know why they're doing it in the middle of a conflict. they don't know what we crane, they're actually talking about. and this is, you know, and on top of it, instead of trying to secure as much funding as they can from the west. nobody is talking piece, at least in the west. nobody in nato is talking piece, that is the biggest problem here. exactly. i mean, the problem is not funding the united states can pres, money up to the was used for the problem is us. and to a certain extent,

europe has been sold to industrialize that they can not even provide artillery shells for your credit. you know, united states have over the altogether, dear trillion dollars the military budget. and yet, it can change even produce strawman military goods that needed to win was a slight artillery shots. russia alone is all producing the desired able country combined. right now the ukraine is, i mean the objective observer of the conflict will tell you your brain is losing the. busy it's more hours clocks and it's manpower is being depleted. now they're talking about sending refugee ukrainian mat phone back to europe to, to, to be drafted. and they're talking about scripting women. i mean, how, how could you create when there's no tactful victory for your brain at this point? well, i mean, but, but they seem to think, um, the people in nato world think that, you know, 60000000000 dollars. well, they'll be there just around the corner. i cannot conceive dan, real quick,

i can't even, even if they got the money, what did they go to do with it? they? yeah, again, they don't have the troops anymore in the, in the morales thinking, i mean, i think, honestly this war will be over. i'm predicting by the end of the summer whether they send the $60000000000.00 or they go, well, yeah, i mean, but of course this is supposed to be money that will go into potentially the next administration. so they want, it seems to me the arms dealers and all the cut out to the n v o's. they want a secured of funding into 2025. they think that's what it seems more about. always gentlemen, it's never really about ukraine, is it? it's all about the money. it's all about the grip or a gentleman. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go and go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with our team.

the more expensive. and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show search like why watch something that's so different whitelisted or opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do you have the state department, the c, i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want marshall stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you think the other way, not the right it says the brother printer was or up at the moment. this is just simply stay of course

with me, the last name was name is read, it was can when we used to be live, imagine we have smart tvs or someone. what was this? we went to the the the, the welcome back across stock. were all things are considered on peter lavelle to mind you were discussing? you create the

okay, let's go back to david in salt lake city a. let's go to the 3rd proposition, how the war will and well, it's really difficult to grapple with this one. because if you look at the official narrative rush, i lost a half a year ago, but they're still looking for money to keep ukraine propped up. i mean, they can't even get that talking point straight. they'll get rushes already lost. so ukraine is winning. i mean, and you, you know, when you a, with all the social media right now, these telegram channels here, it's really hard. i mean, if you have even a passing interest in, in the topic, it's quite obvious that this official narrative is know, and boy, david yes, absolutely, right. i mean degree is lost nearly 30 percent of its g p. that was 27 percent of us population 18 percent of its territory. they last uh, according to the most reasonable in moderate estimates. uh half a 1000000 troops uh, dead or seriously wounded, which is about 3 times higher than what rushes lost in rocky by

a single square ridge of rough in territory. i mean, there's literally no metrics that nato could use to, to judge that, uh, you agree is wayne, the war. and yeah, we can see it here. you know, you're this, this nonsense uh, i mean, uh, zalinski recently stated that the ukraine military consists of 600000 active duty trips. until recently it was 1300000. so it could, the casualties actually could be over 50 percent. it could be $700000.00 and the crating is a killer seriously wanted. so it, this has been a disaster for you. creighton, i'm preparing to write a new article that nearly completed, but it should be coming to knowledge it. any unbiased observer that this has been a disaster, this whole of the sola, you pray, nato membership or sued has been really just irrational. it's been absolutely give us the address of the, of the printer is in a very much so it gives the us national security interest as well,

which is peace with russia. and we ought to be a have a strategic partnership with rational along the lines of uh, what was proposing to center uh by uh, the russian federation with their uh, mutual security agreement which was made which was very faint, which was absolutely acceptable. uh it as written and uh as well as the one that was offered us, which are 75 percent acceptable. yeah, and carl, what they did, because for, for russia, it has been day 2 expansion and even the head of nato suttonberg. he admitted this finally, belatedly. he wouldn't say it honestly for the good part of the complex when he came out and maybe it was unintended on his part. we don't know, but he even admitted a rush. it started, it's military operations because of nato expansion. so what did they do? they expand nato. i think be that you've already mentioned tucker carlson's interview with vladimir putin. and again, he was asked point blank uh, how would you like to see a ceasefire? would you like to see an end of this conflict?

and the russian president said, yes, dad. okay, i mean, i don't know what else you can do. i mean, the most watched interview in the world. if you have a passing interest in this, you know, with rushes, position is b k because it came from the president, smiled himself. but that, of course, was ignored. carl, or exactly, it's brand new right now. it's still secure. the leading washington and europe. that's driving the war, you know, we know what happened during the negotiation to do that. the early phase of negotiation to the end, the war and horace johnson came in and tell you cry. no, no, no, we will back you a 100 percent. and right out, even if the west to back ukraine, 100 percent, and ukraine still cannot achieve victory. as i said earlier, the united states has been sold the industrialized, you cannot provide ukraine was the get the munition it needs,

was there totally shout you need us. can people trained money by proctor certain point, they're just papers, you know what you can set 60000000000 dollars worth of paper to you credit. that's not going to help you bring quote. uh well, actually carl ends up mostly coming back to the suburbs in virginia. okay. at the end of the day, i mean it, it's a griff, it's a huge griffin. i think that's why a lot of these people are pushing the 6 me with billions because they know it's the last time they're going to be able to feed at the trough. okay, so they want to get paid in advance. okay. it's a is a cynical. yeah. but this whole idea, this whole complex is so cynical, it's the most avoided avoidable conflict in my lifetime. and i've seen a lot of conflicts. you know, dan, what's really interesting and we can throw in the, the gods a dimension here. and look at this kind of globally, is that you have the west on the wrong side of issues. okay. you have the united

states in europe. so supporting a, a racist regime and, and cab a racist regime in israel. and the whole world can see this dance to know it's absolutely right. i was just sending to george galloway this. busy morning and he said, you know, the west uh, the sun is now setting in the west and it is now rising in the east, which is very clear as you say, the world sees the difference in how russia prostitutes this war, new created. now israel prosecute the war, guys a, i think this statistic i saw was that about less than $600.00 children have died in the special military operations in ukraine. meanwhile, you already have something like 15000 children who died in gaza and intentionally so it's a brutal, brutal campaign that's happening in gaza in a very short period of time. we also have to, you know, recognize as opposed to, you know, we're now what,

2 years into the conflict and ukraine if we started from the beginning, the special military operation. so yes, it's very clear that uh, any uh, superior, moral, superior or the, the west could ever climb. and that was always a dubious proposition. it can't claim it anymore. you know, it's a david, i had a look at. does a lensky speech in, in munich? and it will, it would be hilarious. larry's if it weren't so pathetic. is it he was using, talking points from the secretaries. they blink. and you know, the rules based order and i just thought, here's your account, you have no freedom of speech in your country. you'll be political opposition. political parties are banned. you have this news. tell us on, on propagandizing, you know, when can leave your country. i mean, what role is based on, or is he talking about maybe the same rule space or the blinking things when he thinks of godsa? i don't know, david, what do you think?

yeah, i agree. i think uh, so the rules based order, you know, applies all way to other countries. does apply for us. uh, the us uh, you know, box and the base countries as well. and i'm saying this is a picture of the american. i will, i love america. i think, i think there's still hope for us to get back on track establishing peace with russia and do so in a, in a way that's a fair adjust. but, you know, i mean, examples of already been given a 3 this uh, this conversation with uh, you know, the, uh, the department of serbia. yeah. live. yeah. of course. uh, the us and be uh, visions of iraq, afghanistan, which was partially justifying iraq, which was not in, in syria as well. so we have a lot of examples of, of the us behaving badly as a bully, a international bullying and doing so unprovoked and unjustified in the case of ukraine. yes, it was an illegal invasion, but it was very much perhaps you couldn't have been work about. and put in, uh,

you know, words stroke for a peaceful diplomatic solution for at least 14, perhaps 15 years prior to the, to the war kind of been weren't clear, beginning with the speech has the minutes security conference in 2007. so responded to the bushes, threat to, to add the grading in georgia and the data. and it was uh, you know, i mean again doing so was completely, it gives us national security interest, but it was all about expanding america's uh, liberal empire as, as uh, center, josh raleigh, bradley calls it a try to expand or square of influence, run up to russia's entire western frontier, and that would be unacceptable from it. you know, we need to have more strategic empathy with russia if the united states really interesting people like ourselves, our, our patriotism is question, you know, okay, i am a conservative and i think for and more support interventions or it is not a conservative idea. okay. it's a b, it's these liberal a leads. okay. it's really interesting. people like victoria new and taking slow

between republican and democrats or white easily because she's a neo con. okay. they have their own set of values, and it's not the rules base order that i would understand as a conservative. you know, carl, it's, i've always thought that this ridiculous expansion of nato was a to undermine russia, obviously, to throw it out of completely out of europe in the, the sanctions. i'm actually for because it's help the rest is economy and is in it . and the soviet union was our talk it anyway. okay, so is russia knows how to adapt here, but the real, the real aim of course, is a to challenge china. and so there was ridiculous child like a calculation was we knocked out rush and then we take on china. i mean with that kind of calculus, i thought, you know, they, they were the adults in the room. carl, it is, there is no acknowledging the people in washington, all the care about the short term, short term self interest,

which is continue to feed the tried better the military industrial complex. i'm given up, even though sanchez pointed out back in 2011. you set up, the goal is to use of the dentist on 2 watched money out of the tax base of the us and europe dropped in. it's not a back into the hands of trans national security. me the go is the endless war, not be successful. awards, so this goes back to what you're saying about risk, you know, big there. at this point, they probably don't even care you think when you crank as long as they can keep you the proxy word against russia to quote unquote lead russia at the same time defeat the military industrial complex back and forth. yeah. you know, 10 thinking about ending this, this is what me is really kind of problem matic because it's already been mentioned on this program. the men scrub process which the west was deceitful about. we had assemble again the seat, and i don't see any kind of real agreement to end. it will end on russia's terms at

the end of the day because you can't make an agreement with these people. they lie and they break their agreements. they even are open about it then. yeah, well, it's all very true. and also we have to remember that this could have been ended in march of 2022 with an agreement that zillow sky was, was willing, decided to sign, and which would allow the ukraine to keep box territory really. okay, i didn't know tan, let me add to that. okay. they were asking zalinski to agree to something that he didn't even have any more. the don bass, they were just saying you have to give up the don bass and crime you something ukraine didn't even have at the time. that's how good of a deal. it was. damn. it was a good deal in the us and u. k. intervene to stop that agreement from going forward. essentially, a washer was offering a do over for the west and they didn't take it. and now ukraine will not exist, as it has, it will, they will not get at least the 4 republics that have voted to go with the rush.

they will never get those back. and that is firmly on the heads of the leaders of the us. well, i think, you know, ending the program that's going to have to be named the country. um, um ben data. stan, okay, because it's going to be the european union that is going to have to take care of a it's going to be a ward, it'll be a state lit, they will have to be supported or a gentleman that's all the time we have a one, i think my guess in bali, pittsburgh and, and set salt lake city. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are the see you next time. and remember, prospect rules the,

[000:00:00;00] the, the way are in moscow, standing in front of one of russia's most iconic symbols in bodies, greece,

elegance and articles on a grandiose scale theatre. the headlines upsetting images from dogs. that where the bodies of victims, that being recovered from a ca hate part and its way the strike. well by giving us a call horseman makes a shocking statement that old palestinian children should be killed. the kind is the final day of julian, his own, just legal bond from the gaze, fixed tradition to the us say, suppose is raleigh outside the u. k. high schools in london,