now you are the young generation, you dream of what a safe and just world can and should be. it is up to you to create it. for the opening ceremony at the world, youth festival has just come to a close, whereas you can see behind me, thousands of people were in participation here watching this outstanding experience, really, i mean, at the beginning we saw the russian national anthem performed by a live orchestra and a live choir or something that shortly gave most people in the auditorium that was almost packed to the brim, goosebumps, and then we saw various performances that illustrated a lot of things about the younger generation around the world, living in a digitized age, their challenges that they have to struggle with how they find loved, as well as different things connected to their accomplishments. the accomplishments, rather of the younger generation, specifically in russia. and we even saw a prerecorded address from the russian president vladimir putin who wished all of the participants the best of luck at the festival and said that there was no room

in the world for a hatred for lies. and that diversity is a pillar of strength in societies and the multi polar world. so this was definitely a great beginning to the world youth festival. and we're definitely sure to see a lot of exciting events in the coming days as it continues. now to breaking news from, the southern russia suit has erupt. it between law enforcement officers and the militant group accused preparing to conduct the terrorist attacks. russian federal authorities of the suspects barricaded themselves inside a residential building in building and the initiative region as the officers were trying to raise the promises. nearby homes were evacuated during the operation. the group was allegedly getting ready to conduct the quote, large scale crimes of a terrorist nature. please stay with our tea up next on the whistle blowers, john discusses with his guest. the very latest on the expedition case that we can

looks co founder julian assigned by the the millions of people around the world. this week i've watched developments on fold in the case of wiki leaks, co founder julian assange. you case, high court heard arguments on february 20th and 21st as to whether assigned you should be grant and permission to appeal his extradition to the united states. to face 17 felony counts of espionage and one count of conspiracy to commit computer intrusion. all the charges related to the rock and ask in war logs the guantanamo bay detaining files and us diplomatic cables released to weaken links by u. s. army whistle blower. chelsea manning. this includes the infamous collateral murder video, which showed us helicopters gunning down 12 civilians,

including 2 writers, journalists. assange face is 175 years in prison in the united states. the high court did not make an immediate decision on the request to grant assigned to the right to appeal the decision to extradite him. a decision is not expected until after march 4th. i'm john carry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 i have made no secret over the years that i believe julia massage is a bona fide hero without juliet assigned you and we can weeks, we would have no idea what crimes the us government in the us military have committed in the name of the american people we wouldn't know that the military deliberately lied about military prospects and afghanistan during the war. there. we wouldn't know about the cold blooded murder of 12 civilians,

including 2 writers, journalists, and iraq. wouldn't know that the c i a had the technical ability to take over control of a moving car by hacking into its computer system. we wouldn't know that the c i a could hack into a smart tv and turn it speaker into a microphone despite on what's being set in a room. even when the tv is turned off. we have julia massage to the bank for all of this. the past 14 years have not been easy for us on. he was initially arrested on trumped up allegations of sexual assault and spent 10 days in solitary confinement in london's ones worth the prison. that was followed by 550 days of house arrest. that in turn was followed by 4 and a half years of asylum in the ecuadorian embassy in london, although asylum is in the eye of the beholder. the ecuadorian authorities works closely with a c i a and with new case m, i 5. and am i 6 to wire and literally the entire embassy for video and audio,

including in julian's bathroom, where he sometimes met with his attorneys, thinking that it was safe to speak there. he was forcibly dragged out of the ecuadorian embassy almost 5 years ago after the dorian government turned on him and threw its lot in with a c. i a and he's been in london maximum security bill, march prison since april 11th. 2019. he's been in solitary confinement for much of that time. assange did not attend this most recent hearing. he was too sick to do so. his wife said that he had been coughing so severely, but he actually broke a rib. but maybe that's the american government's plan, just keep him in prison until he dies. then the problem just goes away. we're going to discuss this important issue with an independent investigative journalist mohammed. eliza mohammed is based in london where he's been reporting on the assange hearing for the dissenter. mohammed, thanks so much for joining us. thank you very much for having me here. well,

there is so much to discuss in this fast moving story. let's start with what was said in the court room. over the course of the 2 days, the us justice department's attorney, claire dobbin, ask the judges to reject julian's requests to appeal the order to extradite him. dobbin said that julian acted far beyond what any journalist would have done. so what exactly does that mean and did the judges react to it in any way that so uh, i can see the reaction of the judges. um, although they did ask a number of probing questions, which i at least i and another other observers, are the journalist people like a craig murray and a jewelry i did find out hopeful that they did seem to be following, not just with the prosecution was making a saying, but with the defense was as well, but in terms of that cleared up and then the us government's arguments that both

judy and a song is not being an ordinary journalist, but also we could weeks, they said as well. and they said this goes well beyond well before a chelsea manning, which is something i don't recall them arguing before they said at the very beginning they, they use language like julie massage and we can leeks have been in citing people to steal classified documents, right in violation to commit crimes at this deal. so that's why they didn't refer even to chelsea manning or others as whistle blowers or leakers. right. obviously they wouldn't use the term with a lower but even the term leak. they didn't say they said steal. they use terms like insights, which normally you hear in terms of incitement. the violence, right, not incitement to leaking, and they really hammered home. these allegations about, um, oh, well julian assigned release the complete on redacted uh, cables and, and that's why this is very important. this is fundamental to our case, they said,

even though only 3 out of the 17 or 18 charges even relates to documents that were on redacted. so then, and that was a point raised by the defense lawyer physical. if that's the case, why the all these other charges that exist, and as we've discussed the last time i was on your show, there is no need to prove harm under the espionage arthritis or damage of any kind . that's it, not to mention the facts. yeah. and so he wouldn't even be able to raise the defense that actually the allegations put forward by the us government about potential harm or unproven. whereas the evidence of torture, of rape of assassinations of drone strikes, killing civilians. and these are things that they actually said in court during the 2 days. those are prove, and there have been court cases that have considered use as evidence conclusive proof of, of torture and drone strikes being used in course, including your pin cord of human rights and the case of pilot it must be which i

know you're aware of the man who is randomly picked up, mistaken for somebody else, tortured for months and then dumped on the streets of i want to see macedonia, but i can see i can't recall. it wasn't the country was picked up and that's right . and one case of the other europe and court as a result in no small part because of the, of the leaks. so they did, i mean, it may be useful for people to know briefly the kinds of things that the defense were arguing. so the 1st day was mostly focusing or a 100 percent focusing on the defense arguments. the 2nd day was mostly the us government's response as to why a julian hassan should not be granted permission to appeal. so even though it feels like an appeal hearing because they're making their appeal grounds, it's actually you're presenting a sort of a compressed version of what you would be saying as an appeal for the judges to then. ready go off and consider where they will even give you permission to appeal . and if they do, they should issue a further date where they'll say, ok, we'll,

we'll go into this more depth. and the kinds of arguments they've made, they are they're presenting are the, the us and u. k. extradition treaty. it clearly prohibits extradition for political offences. and that the offense is that he's charged with the name of the espionage fall into the category of political offences. that is an abuse of process for the us to seek extradition for us of a sound under the treaty for political offences since they know it is bard, the extra dining him would result in the tension which is arbitrary, i e, outside of the law. and that's his extradition would represent a flagrant denial of his right to freedom of speech and freedom of press on the article 10 of the are being cut a convention of human rights, including given the possibility that you'll be denied protections under the 1st amendment of the us constitution because both the lead prosecutor gordon, chrome berg and pharmacy i, director when he was the director of mike compel. both said that julian,

his own being a non us person, would not be entitled to a cert 1st amendment protections where he to be tried and us. and even though they are a sorting domestic criminal law to prosecute a non us person who is based outside of the west, when the, when he publish the documents and when he is source was also based outside of the us in the rock. so is interest writing, it's, they get to apply domestic us law, but he doesn't get to us constitutional protections. and then there was also matters about the fact that he could be subjected to the death penalty. and the us government has refused to issue assurances that they won't add charges that could lead to a death penalty charge. there are also some other other things they also raised as well. but that's the, that's the broad strokes of what was argued over the few days. julians attorneys brought up the c i applied to kidnap or to kill julian. this was a plot that was exposed by yahoo news. a few years ago,

i've been dismissed the relevance of the article or arguing that it's not evidence . what was the reaction to that statement? because to the best of my recollection, that article quoted 36 current and former american intelligence officers to that's correct. and in fact, the defense raise the blinds that the yahoo news article was preceded by 2 witness statements from members of u. c. global. the security firm which was hired to protect the ecuadorian embassy, which then got recruited by the c. i a to then spy on everyone who the ecuadorian embassy, especially julie, and assigned where they were, they stated in their statements that the lawyers were priority target. so i remember that and that was evidence presented during the mains. extradition hearings were judge braids are basically dismissed those arguments and one of the

that the points that the defense made in, in opposition to, to dobbins argument that this is not evidence. as you said it's, you have both many current and former members of intelligent services. you have these other whistle blowers who came before you have this court case going on in spain as well. and, you know, this basically corroborates. this is evidence that corroborates each other. yes. uh, not to mention the fact that the us government, in its case, original case, you know, 2 years ago. and this was quoted again here during these trials. pushed and repeated repeatedly quoted from a letter that was signed by the new york times, the guardian and others were they denounced wikileaks after julianna's sobs ended up publishing the redacted versions of certain documents. bear in mind that they were not the 1st to publish them. they had already been published and they had

already been published by a website which expert testimony previously explains a, it was with a website grip to him that a far greater reach and those days on google right then, then we can weeks back in those days and was as a result of the publishing of the password to the encrypted file which contains the on redacted documents, thereby making it available for everybody. and that was done by to guardian journalist. that's exactly right. set that aside. yeah. set aside for the moment, they use that as evidence to say that he's not a real journalist. look here these frame is establishment news outlets. they've come out and say, oh julie massage and we could accept cross the line. like i say not mentioning any of the other factors that play um but so that's okay as evidence, but it's not okay. is it to have evidence that as far more details or an article is far more detailed? and it is corroborated, like i said,

by whistle blower testimony to be presented as evidence. i think i think they said that that's ludicrous on his face. actually we are going to take a short break. and when we come back, we'll discuss the public response to this hearing for julian assange as well as what julian can expect in the coming weeks and months. stay tuned. the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the, [000:00:00;00]

the the scott bennett, i'm a former united states army psychological warfare officer, really served in the state department counterterrorism office under investor del daily the . so i wanted to come here to russia in the dawn bass area and to gather the facts, to take back to the american people, the

hold on bass of the front line. so this is where the bombs and the bullets are raging. this is where people are dying. this is where the buildings are exploding the all. i wanted to see 1st hand the scars of war, the welcome back to the whistle blowers and john carrie onto were speaking with independent journalist mohammed on monday about the hearing in london. related to the extradition to the united states a week in weeks, co founder julian assigned mohammed. good to have you with us. thanks for hanging on. we appreciate your time. absolutely. mama. the you in special, rapid tour for torture. alice edwards,

again called for julian to be released as the reporters without borders, amnesty international and own wide variety of other groups. this is great in terms of public opinion, but doesn't carry any weight inside the court room isn't even presented inside the courtroom. it will, if it has been presented, it will have been perhaps in written submissions or it may be presented if they get a chance to appeal. but then i didn't hear it mentioned in any of the oral arguments. and it's may have something to do with the incredibly limited time they had. it may not seem like it that you have a one full day and a bit of the 2nd day towards the end. mm hm. but actually given the amount of ground they have to cover, given the fact that they know that the pressure is on the other side, and they're trying to convince a judge to basically find that a lower court judge has arid and law. so yeah, i don't think that i don't even know if they, if they would have been able to find a way to kind of shoehorn that in. but it does help,

i think in making it easier to, to if you like make the right decision. and because we, we didn't even so recently that astray the past. uh, a resolution doctor name parliament and the prime minister, calling for the extradition to be halted and that's fine. and lead the prime ministers come out publicly strongly. and that's quite, that's as a result of growing pressure. i remember when it was just one or 2 m d 's, i met them. andrew wilkie was one of them who had come here and that. and then fact he was here uh, 2 days ago he come over from australia. so it's, there is a growing amount of pressure. i think it helps where wherever there is flexibility, i mean at the end of the day, if you're of the mind is that this is indeed a politically motivated prosecution and it is political forces which are driving it . then it makes sense that political forces can result in the prosecution

being either dropped or, and judges being, being pushed. if he likes feeling the least have the cover to be pushed in the right direction. if they had can interpret something one way or another, it could be just enough to kind of push them along onto the right side. so it's, it is one of those situations where you need legal arguments need political arguments, you need public pressure, you need campaigns. and i mean, it's not an accident that in cases such as these, the more campaigning and public pressure there is, the more likely the cases will find themselves decided in the way that people didn't originally expect. we saw that with them with people who were who the americans saw it in previous extradition cases exact, right? people who work use of a hacking computers, but they were autistic. and on the autism spectrum, um and um, in the end they but they won their cases. i mean they were grueling cases, but in the end they won their cases where the home secretary ended up intervening.

okay. they see, i didn't want them as badly as they want. julian, a sounds right. the point is that it was political pressure to help to push the needle. tell us a little bit about julian's health. he didn't attend either day of the hearing and we learned from his wife stella that he has been sick and has been coughing so hard that he actually broke a rib. i hope this isn't a, a permanent situation. after all, everybody knows that tuberculosis runs rampant through prisons. how is julian's health? i mean, it, it, it's, as you've described and i think people, so we need to remember the, the context right, that he's been incarcerated now for years before that his health wasn't exactly great when he was in the ecuadorian embassy either right? people have this image as though it was some kind of mansion with a giant garden where you could as though you're on holiday, but he was a, was, he wasn't exactly able to do whatever it is he wants to do. i don't know if you

ever visited them there. oh, he also had a mini stroke people and some people may have forgotten about that during previous hearings. and you know, as we know, people who spend the long periods of time incarcerated, especially much of that time, is in solid, treat confinement, or solitary light conditions combined with the anxiety and the stress of not knowing what is going to happen. many people's, you know, lives shortened in terms of their life expectancy. many people who leave prison, many of them die within a few years. for those who have spent many years through and solo tree, that's absolutely true. i've heard of variety of rumors this week about what the potential outcome could be from this hearing. julian could be extradited on march 4th. there could be a 2nd hearing, a follow appearing. any extradition could be delayed in definitely an extradition

could be dragged out until just after the us presidential election on november. the 5th and extradition could be delayed until the european court of human rights makes its own decision. i understand certainly that nobody knows what's going to to happen, but do any of these alternatives make any logical sense to you or do you think julian will indeed be sent to the us to face the trial of his life? well, britain is still a member of the council of europe, the organization which it owns it. right? and the are being, excuse me, right, is the highest for or it is the court of appeal that one would be able to do. so if you open up the exhausted all these meals we are on the day, let's say for example, the or don't give permission to appeal. then the next stage is then to apply that on an urgent basis on an emergency basis for what's called interim measures. to get an order from the european court for them to say you, you cannot extradited him until we consider his appeal. and at which point,

i think he has very strong grounds at the european cords, not least of which because i the open court has more independence. then domestic courts are yes, there bridges, british judges there, but they're also spanish and french, and german judges and various bodies, various parts of the council of europe have come out against julian's extradition. so if there is no medical pressure that helps to give them coverage, you decide the case as they should and not as a result of stage pressure as it were. so he does have very good grounds, which frankly should have one here and all the might still we are in the u. k. position, but if he doesn't, i mean, could he be bundled up by the u. k. government before an interim order? uh, inter measure is applied or even after it is sure, but i think that would be especially the given the level of focus. i think it'd be very dangerous. politically. i mean, you know, anything is possible,

especially in the case like this, but it would be largely unlawful if you like. so it's unlikely to have a decision where i'm likely to have a decision by 4th of march, because they've requested certain documents to be presented to them by court that they asked for certain documentation from the lawyers. and one of the documents they said by the 4th of march, which it seems unlikely that they're going to be able to make a decision on whether to grant permission to him to appeal, to here, you know, have a proper appeal. if they're only getting certain documents on the 4th of march, so could some people have suggested that given the election? right, that's maybe that's, let's see. when they come out, let's say it takes a month for them to decide and they say fine, we'll give you permission to bill and we'll give it to you on $1.00 to $3.00 of these arguments. and then we'll, they'll set it for a certain date. and then that one will come and then they'll have to make a decision on that. by the time all of that happens, we could well be, you know,

by, you know, election time period whether right liberally or ice, right? i could see them the us government eventually walking away from this whole case. i hope that's not a wishful thinking. but anyway, mohammed looking at the bigger picture. what is the prosecution of julian assange mean for journalism in the united states? well, i mean, they're saying that the mere possession of what they call national defense information is a criminal offense. there's no public interest defense. your motivations don't matter. the contents of the documents don't matter, doesn't matter if it exposes war crimes or anything else. um, which means that typically you're not permitted to discuss these things. so if they are able to successfully prosecute somebody, or even if he's found not guilty, which we've already discussed, you and i previously how i'm likely that is given the fact that he'll have a national security jury in the eastern district of virginia and correct in the nature of the law. this would set

a precedent that the people who even use us courts have recognized works as a journalist and what you leeks, whatever the government just saying in this case, courts and us, i have to have recognize what takes as being a news organization. even the miller reports that, right, right. this would mean this could open the door to prosecuting other journalists and other prosecute other publishers and other people engaging journalistic activity. because remember, the 1st amendment doesn't protect people who are recognized by the state as journalist. that's right. it protects the activity. so even if you're a doctor, if you engage an activity that is deemed to be journalism is the, is the activity that is protected. right. and not a class of people or, or profession. mm hm. um and uh, let's not forget that if they have the ellsberg case, i think it might have been the 1st time that the espionage act was used to target whistle blowers if i, if i recall correctly, i'm guessing. don't know. no,

you're exactly right about that. that's exactly what it was, so they could. yeah, yeah, so previously, so you use of, you know, you do, you have a precedent southern case and then it gets used again and again. and again, we saw how many times that we use during the bush and obama administration, you should know, because you're one of those people who found themselves prosecuted under the espionage act. indeed, mohammed thank you so much for joining us. and for enlightening us on this important and quickly changing case, the case of julian assigned isn't just about julian assange. of course, it's about press freedom and freedom of speech. it's about holding government's accountable for war crimes and for crimes against humanity. it's about over classification, transparency, secrecy, a prosecution of julian assigned to the prosecution of the entire media. it's a blow against freedom. so it's up to all of us to support him. it's up to all of us to warn our governments that they do arrive their authority from the people, and the people have

a right to know what governments are doing in their name. thank you to my home. it all minds you for joining us and thanks to our viewers for being with us for another episode of the whistle, blowers, i'm john to reaku. we'll see you next time the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the

the, the, the situation clearly indicates the forward camp in europe is still there. there's foreign minister sir, gala rob says there is no western appetite for peace in ukraine. after a link called between top german generals, revealed their plan to bomb rushes, the crime in bridge the smoking kind will that yeah, hot, it doesn't matter. we need to ensure that from the very beginning, there is no mention that would make us part of the conflict. this is a temporary grips, huge for those people who are evacuated from the town of dave kind of far away from them. that's at the moment. this temper, ricky g center houses, at least 40 different people. thousands of civilians are safely evacuated from of