the interest with its international obligations, the spoke spicing of the ruling b. j. b party outlined to color incense in the rush, appreciate his student and know, you know, face all kinds of lives and then business. right? yeah. we did for a, i mean do it for us. yeah. the halls, stick to the starting from defense starting from investment and i drew columns a saw the strong investment in boy starting the up into a boy from rush. yet the important point in this is for, for the, for the policy, you may not rush she all the way, mary, in boston, please edi. i will not be any pressure from the listing board. he does not see any certificates or dictations from the rest of the work regarding it's at a time with russia or any other kind of default that might be able to continue the engage with russia to explore further sectors. in eddie ohio kaufman author truly

of defense, which has been really for a long time one while i saw i saw on corrected on that it's just that sometimes one of the she does come across headlines. you see west and politicians check, new tally to put pressure on must go to end the conflict. but i do specifically want to ask you about a new daddy's position. he's that the, the ukraine conflict. i mean, we feel that there were reaching almost a dangerous point. we've got president mot, chrome saying that would not ruling out sending west and troops to ukraine with harrington taps of a job. and officials talking about helping ukraine, low up russian infrastructure. you, jenny says we want this conflict to be resolved. do you see resolution coming before escalation at this point in time? it isn't the trust of the global piece. the resolution of the conflict is

a team of this. this is not at all for any a nation without leaving any especially country to 5, the fire or other. this is the fire to control the fire. so there's a big country which is a, the steep border this conflict of the wall to the device or cause metrics. so that both sides, the d and b is hard to to r t that com is where you can get more details of all the stories we're following. how so you get a couple of yeah, i know the the, [000:00:00;00]

the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered on peter level. a pattern has a merge to more, the west panics. over its failed ukraine project. the more it is willing to escalate the complex, the same conflict that they say they're not directly involved in. the last thing they are considering isn't negotiated, settlement the cross talking ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, larry johnson in tampa. he's a managing partner for burg associates, a former c i, a analyst, and us state department counterterrorism official. and like jackson, we have daniel mcadams. he is the executive director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity. and here in moscow we have set us up could up beef, nick, he is a former us army officer and veteran fight gentlemen across top rolls in effect,

that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated, daniel, let me go to you. so many things have been happening over the last few days. the usual nonsense coming from the french president contradictory information uncomfortable coming from sergeant schultz in germany. and then of course, we have these german generals talking, but you know, all in all in if you want to kind of distilled down what's going on is what's called sunk cost fallacy. they cannot comprehend that they have put so many resources into a project that is failed utterly. but they're willing to double down daniel as well . you know, here we have a sen, michael rubio from florida, and i think it was just that. i said, i knew all along ukraine couldn't win. i just didn't want to say anything because i didn't want to, you know, just discourage anyone or dissuade anyone. and i think that's the carrier of the bag. i remember after a few years in iraq, you started seeing people all the think tankers and all the export started saying that, well, i knew all along, it was a bad idea. well, i knew of a lot of they didn't have views. i just didn't say anything. so i think when you

start seeing the rats like rubio clean the sinking ship, i think, you know, at least in the us, the game is up. and when you talk about, we'll talk about later, the, the money and the republican party in the us as we move into the electro season. it doesn't look good from the us side for ukraine. well, you know, larry, there seems to be this infallibility complex that these people have, but they just cannot comprehend that they have a major escape look, afghanistan, iraq, that's far away. you can say it was a long time ago, but this is impacting the world in a way they never could have imagined particularly europe here, and it's reputational damage. here they are not infallible, and that's what they're finding out. larry. a, there's a whitening gulf between the rhetoric has a capability. so on the one hand, as we solve a theatre, separate conversations with the germans. yeah there's, there's always talk about boy yeah we,

when we went to escalate this or we want to lucky using the taras missile to hit the coach bridge. but then at the same time they can see it. well, yeah. okay. it's going to take 8 months. we can't do it right away. member the 1000000 shells we were going to produce for ukraine. oh, well, okay. we did 300000. so they did the across the board, the, the us military kept me this recruiting goals the british have. or what i call the jeff pile dysfunction, they can launch a missile out of a submarine. and so, from the actual military capability, the nato has it's, it's, it's a rack, it's a disaster. and yet, the, the, the, what they're saying and the threats that they're making towards russia are becoming sort of more intense. so the really is a disconnect. well larry, i want it before i go to spanish spock. here can, can you just give us an assessment of the french army right now? well, by the way, the, it was, i was going to ask larry what, what, the, what the,

what the french army, what is it status right now? i mean, is it a, is it a major power? no, no. okay. okay, hold. that's awesome. good to go to status. well, for right now. well, the french president is talking about sending troops. now, i don't speak french. i've looked at the transcript. it's hard to say the same french troops or nato troops. it's unclear, at least my reading of it. but what about that? i mean, we're talking about escalation, this is what this program's called expect escalation, nato troops in ukraine, really status? well. well, 1st of all, by the way, the jackson issue isn't just the, what the british, the germans show, the same thing in the red sea when they try to down an american drone that they took to be a hot style to missiles bolton. this fell into the sea, so it's a sunday or wide issue, you know, even even in the ninety's and begin to thousands of a survey, you could watch the degradation and, and discipline, you can watch the degradation in combat readiness. now,

those are already underway. across the french do have units that can go, they've got the french for legion, they've got special forces troops, but they're not enough to fight an actual war. so i think what they're hoping is, once they go in and they'll pull the rest of the data with, with them behind them, that's one thing. if it's just the french or it's the pre baltic states that go in there and some, and they'll back off. it's a different thing, i mean, if it's a falls or for both, it's a different thing. if it's a french, the germans, the, or the british go in, they'll pull it, they've got enough weight to pull most of natal behind them. whether nato likes it or not. once a bullet starts flying things to the i'm, you know, i don't want to be too blunt here, but i mean, the one to russian missile to kill like a nato sells or just like it kills a ukrainian one. what's the difference? right, well, we can ask the 60 or so french soldiers and art, and they've got a, it's got the thank you for reminding our audience. they've maybe that is what got

the chrome all set off. i mean, he, he's a, he's, he always has, he's triggers around to him. uh, we've gotten used to that with the french president, daniel, you know, the same with me, chrome, he said defense essentially that russia should not be allowed to win. i think really what he's saying is that nato should not be allowed to lose as well when i was really confused when they said that because i thought they already were winning the agent to be here. so are they already work? you know, i mean, i was listening, i guess, to the wrong us generals who said that we said, well, you know, they'd already one. so is it does smack of desperation. and you know, it's, they're sending all sorts of signals the, the intercepted conversation, what's actually the germans are saying today. it wasn't intercepted at all. he's basically a boomer mistake. one of the generals didn't dial in. right. and so don't know, don't blame us off. we're still secure, don't worry, they haven't heard anything. we said um, but these things keep leaking out and they keep pointing in one direction, which as, as you appropriately titled the show escalation. and i just wonder, you know,

it seems like the little baltics are just trumping at the bit and to get in, if this is some sort of signal for them to get more involved. well, daniel, what do they actually have? i mean, nato consists of 2 major military's the united states, which is far away. it has bases in europe, obviously, and there is turkey. turkey is not going to get involved in this whatsoever. so what is left? i mean, what should rush it'd be worried about? well that is desperation because we're moving it now with every day it becomes clear and clear. and this is particularly true yesterday when the us supreme court said no states, you can't kick a guy off the ballot because you know like him is becoming clear and clear. the trump will be the nominees, and the numbers are certainly his way when you look at national goals. so trump, for all of his fault and there are plenty of them. he, it, these to this point is not displayed an appetite going all in. if you remember back when the so called chemical attack and really happened, he loved

a couple of bombs out into some field somewhere. he didn't go all and so i think that is responsible for a good deal of the panic. yeah, well i, larry, i am a, what is nato as a military force visa v. russia as well? it, is there nothing that is to put it simply look, the reason they told has expanded over the years is because that was the only way that nato could maintain force level for structure. and so without it, because they weren't able to build up and sustain their own armies. i mean, right now the british army, i think it's full strength, is $70000.00. and all of that, if you, what are they called the anybody combat capable, you're, you're lucky. maybe at 30000. well, you know, the, the russians are showing to that. it's in 2 weeks of the did. oh, you know, the, the french army has a similar challenges as do the germans. so across the board,

you, you wind up with this patchwork quilt of different military capabilities, different military traditions, different military organizations. they try to standardize it and, and the line that's been coming out of washington is all what they do is more united the never, well, you know, that, that name is sort of gone away, particularly with mark thrown and, and shows, uh, uh, and, and then the ultimate uh, cap bite with each other. uh and, and the bread so, you know, they're, they're very unhappy with the germans as well because shoals, uh, out of them is, you know, that they're active and on the ground a new crate. well i, i think you could make an argument span a swap that the french and the british always are upset with the germans. it's just a historical thing. okay. but i mean, it's interesting, spanish law facing a given the, the scope in our conversation so far. i think the blame game is already started.

what do you think? i as well, you know, this kind of reminds me of a bomb is no child left behind program or on american schools. when it gets lowered, the standard so low, you couldn't leave anybody behind because anybody could step over. nato integration is gone about the same way. we've lowered the standards. so all that, a lot of your story, it looks like a military power. on the other hand, you know, to be honest, uh there are enough military units there that if they start a flight, it's going to be a flight. you bear to be lost as on both sides. it's not going to be over in the weeks. it'll be over, it will be over and only one direction. unless some miracle happens for nato. but it's still going to be a flight. it's still going to be award. so it's an editor. we shouldn't downgrade it. totally as if there's no, that's not going to have anything. well, i mean, so we have a nightstand airport. so then what will you be knowing the military? i mean, if you're going to have air support, do, does need to have air support in ukraine or outside of ukraine if it's outside of

ukraine. isn't that a fair target? yeah, absolutely. right now the way they're doing it is the plains are hiding mostly in poland. they fly out of pole when they land in ukraine on a ukrainian, the air base, the fuel, our arm up and then fly emission. so right now rush is kind of ignore that and they're not hitting them in poland. now the problem with f sixteens is a, they are made for asphalt carmax. they're not made for a concrete carmax. the way to soviet and russian planes are made for you for them to land on the concrete topping right. they have to carry a lot less weight, otherwise they'll break their traffic. nobody the landing gear. so for that matter, that means that's a lot more of a constrain. listen because you got less fuel, less ordinance. now if they're flying out of poland, it's already been said and i hope that's the line. that's how they're flying at a pool and go straight to combat mission. those bullets, air bases are part of the fight in their final flight, their league,

or their legal and moral target to be hit. so do you want to set that up there and target here gentlemen, we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine, stay with our to the show. seemed just going to shape house and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look for common ground. the,

the russian states never is as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best ingles, all set and set up the same assistance. must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin move. yep. mission, the state on the rush, putting and split the r t spoke next. even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for what question did you say even twist,

which is the welcome back across stuff were all things are considered? i'm peter louisville. true mind you were discussing, you create the let's go back to daniel lake jackson, a, the american angle, and all of this is of course the a that the senate passed the, the house and refuses even to discuss at this point here. um is, will there be a, a go around you? will there be eventually some kind of aid still going to ukraine, visa b, you just, i was gonna mention marco rubio. would you get, given that kind of, uh, a logic of coming from marco rubio, some money will eventually get there because its biden's prestige on the line. you know, i think with every passing day, it's less likely they'll get the full enchilada sent to them. the $61000000000.00, but again, we're moving heavily now into the election season up as all but to capture the

nomination as a republican. and he has, he's essentially the head of the republican party united states now. and so you have a republican house that literally hangs within a hair's breadth of a majority. they kicked out a republican because he was a weirdo. and now they have basically, you know, one or 2 guys. so it's very important that the republican house, at least a lines itself with president trump, and i think that's what they want to do despite the misgivings among some show is say more reino or back venture type republicans. so with every day there's, there's more of a danger that they won't pass, but there needs, as you say, needs to be something that will pass in. speaker johnson is not a good, ideologically opposed or pretty, as opposed in principle to spend the money to ukraine. we don't the he, he voted for money in the past. okay. i mean, he was on board for that. he has in the past, but now there's just basically the stand off about immigration. and so they, republicans, anyway, have a, use this as a a,

as. ready a width against the democrats are present and by it, and we need a serious immigration of the bill or we're not going to pass the money. so it's kind of a challenge got with being thrown down now and the democrats can afford it back off and on immigration now they've already lost, you know, states like, uh like michigan you know, to abide this last that because he decided to align completely with his real, and that's another story. so you're really having a something that's going on in the political sphere now that goes well beyond the war fighting the larry i'm, i'm sure you saw lloyd austin's to testimony to congress. i don't know what you know. maybe he's just recovering from his surgery because this guy was so delusional. the scare mongering of it was so transparent as well. again, desperation in the air, larry, to whether they're trying to do everything they can to put pressure on congress to cough up the money. speaking of coughing,

and here's the issue. there is not the kind of political base in the united states for ukraine that exists for israel. so, you know, the theme, the theme song for congress ought to be that the, from the, you know, the movie, cabaret money, money, money, money, money, money, money, the money makes the world go round. so i do think congress ultimately will allocate it will approve funds for quote, you crate. but the reality of that money is not going to ukraine. it's going to general dynamics is going to rate the on it's going to lockheed martin and staying in the united states. and then it's getting passed back to the members of congress who's going to need to have some, some caches or election coffers coming up for november. so, i mean, it's a scale. and at the same time, the united states is under great pressure from the american is rarely political action committee to pony up the funds to keep this role in the fight. and it's

a united states does not have limitless military capability. they've got to make choices. and so their choices in that is, they're gonna, they're gonna send whatever equipment, material, munitions, to israel, but to ukraine, ukraine's toast. yeah, well, it's a set us up. it's very interesting that it gets down to legal requirements to send money to ukraine. but if there's no barriers to send it to israel, congress i think has already been over written twice by this administration, etc. so i've, i have a kind of a military question for you. i mean, is one of these things that going back to what i'm a chrome had to say, and i don't know, maybe he's just wanting to remain relevant. you know, he wants that i'll do the germans and the bread. so i don't know, there could be an internal dynamic there, but there's this sense, you know, if day to send troops, the ukraine, the russians won't dare touch them. that is ridiculous thinking span as well. yeah . yeah. you know, when you're in a proxy where you've got one or 2 choices,

when you're losing either leave or you double down. and that seems nato the problem with a lot of nate or leaderships to is there an echo chamber here? the same thing back. they talk the same words, they, they speak the same words, they hear the same thing back and forth, and they keep hearing how roger is just on the brand. just a little more, i know, finally, correct. it's the same thing is when you go to vegas and you put your kids what your college funds on the line, the house, the wife's, my wedding ring, and just the one with. and i'll get it all but, but you're not going to get it all back. you just going to go for their broke it. and you're looking basically gambling addicts. they're what they put everything on the line short of their own countries. and they're willing to do that too. well if the, if i could do the better for so i liked the vegas made of course of the ukrainians or the chips. right? yeah. oh yeah. oh or is this a big or what table? spinning and, and they're losing the house wins, and they're not the house as much as they want to think their house. daniel,

really the desperation that you use to see, cuz you gotta europeans, is that a toe is facing a strategic defeat. and that's something they simply can't comprehend. candy daniel? no, they can't at all. and that's why you see bizarre things like german generals talking behind the backs of their commander in chief, who says no, no, torres is. and then. and then you have the conversation, how many tours will it take to new the bridge? but i'm one of the, the, the, to pick about something this thomas love said because he makes an excellent point. and it reminds me so much that we have learned nothing from iraq because i remember when i was working in the house with dr. paul. endless. foreign affairs committee hearings with fred kagan waddling in there, sitting down and telling us, just one more serge, guys. just one more serge, we've almost got this thing one for both your rock in afghanistan by the way. so this is the, this is the garbage that they've pulled all along. they haven't learned from it the, because they profit from it. but picking up on something that larry said as well,

if you look at the, the opinion polls in the us, not only is a to ukraine, extremely unpopular, particularly among republicans. i think it's something like 75 percent. but certainly in the mid to high sixty's overall, oppose it, but even more, 80 israel, surprisingly enough, the least. the last poll i saw 50 some 59 percent of republicans were opposed to more military aid to israel. so these wars are extremely unpopular. i can help with saying that republicans and press and past and potentially future president trump aren't looking at these polls. yeah, larry, one of the interesting things and listening to um, are the, the, probably the woman that we probably all agreed we should be demonized. the most is victoria newland, and she said twice when she was in care of and then later i had a conference is that there be some surprises for putin and she likes to say, it seems to me considering the german league german conversation. but it's

terrorism that they're going to in conduct. that's what they've, that's what the surprises are terrorist terrorist acts against civilians. larry, as well. yes. but russia is, i think, aware and prepared for you know, this, this get a series of incidents this last week, where you 1st had this, the statement from my career on, you know, the escalated, know that and let's say time and came up with the new york times article about c i a basis in ukraine and the, all that the stuff and see i was doing for this for the ukrainian war. and then you had put in speech of state of the union state of russia. and was it put in as a very clear markers about what the west is facing if they continue this and then the leak. and i do believe the leak came from russian intelligence. it was not accidental. there there put the west on notice. okay. you play this game now for

over 2 years of using you, you of inserting yourselves in this war, but pretending that you're not there, it's for of killing russians and not taking responsibility. that's over. and in fact, we had a news report just the other day. i think the day before yesterday, it looks like the russians did hit one of the ca, bases around so me and killed the personality and nobody's saying anything about it . they want to keep that under wraps. but i think, i think the russians have now made the decision. okay, to the gloves in that respect are coming off. if, if the nato forces continue to insert themselves this way, we will hit them and we will make them pay, you know, as spanish, about the, essentially the same questionnaire. i mean, nato is overplayed. it's had, as a matter fact, if you really think about nato, really, i never expected that a long term conflict. they, they, they, they, they believed in the fantasy that the russian troops went up to camp. and then they ran away and you know, they could call victory or as johnson called it off,

and now they're stuck with a hand that they dealt themselves status well, a. yeah, you know, a product of to the surface think the ukrainians use flying columns. uh no strong point was ever taken. uh, our neighbors son was fighting and one of those strong points they got pulled. they got in circles, they got pulled out by russian and by relief troops. and they stepped back. but they stepped back in an orderly manner, continued the lines that were a, a flexible defense. so they were falling back on new lines, new lines after they've got down to a hard line that the ukrainians couldn't push through. the other thing that nobody talks about is ukraine had an armored fish that it created with several brigades, and it kept them in how to go around civilians knowing that the civilians aren't going to get hit. that now they're parked in the, in the underground garage is areas like that, knowing that russia isn't going to hit those builders. i gotta do a garza on, on how to go. well, that honored fist had to come out for this flight and they lost a good chunk of that on this. so that had been putting together for

a while as far as terrorism. let's start 2014. you could ask my elderly and then uh yes, the photos, the 9 years under sale. when i went there last time, i saw it was in november we we came flying in there at a 140 kilometers in our through. i bombed up our road. you can go slower than that . you've got drones over here that are bring in artillery rounds on civilian cars. you've got drones that are come across these. oh, uh, drones, uh, these blind all over the place. so you gotta fly in fast. just to get into the town and then you know they, they get artillery costs and like, well, i'll stand it or talk with my uncle when you can hear their tell around coming in. you know, i'm, i'm, i sort of close enough that if it's google good, i will have a, are totally around landing of my head. you know, welcome jesus. that's the kind of that moment i'm going to worry about it coming down the top of my head. you know, that's how that's how all the people lived at 29 years. uh, i'm really glad that you mentioned that because it is never enough said that this

war has been going on since 2014 and the people of the don mass worked care reiser 8 of those years. and it's something that they will never forget. and the russian people will never forget, and the russian political late will never forgive the seat that the west conducted itself around the minsk agreements. that's all the time we have gentlemen and want to thank my guest in tampa, lake jackson, and in moscow. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember costs on

the the any rock and syria and yugoslavia, they would know decisions of the un security council. the united states released this team and from the bottle itself, and when rest of began to protect its people in doing that, why is this thing not allowed for other countries? right, there are a lot of important kohls out of washington parts, hypocritical, double stand up foreign policy during the closing press conference at the will you text of the head of the i. e, a speech to r, t and savvy has a un monday to investigate. did it teacher teacher attacks on is it, is that photos a nuclear power plant? there's pavement comes out the meeting is not letting me put in solving the russian