so all kinds of the k g, b, a better rules shed light on the atrocity announced a numerous questions that have remained an onset for many years. watch on see the syria and utilize the view. they would know decisions of the un security council, the united states released from the bottle itself and when the rest of began to protect its people in dunbar. why is the same not allowed for other countries line of every other thing goes out of washington for ever quitting home doubles and foreign policy julia closing by some friends of the world. the best of all of the i a speaks to all teach, same thing that he has a un mandate to look into that any further time on the nuclear power problem. his statement comes off, the meeting was in, in the southern russian associate that happened now my reaction would be very

different because now i have on monday had to look into this to ask questions to try to determine what has happened the. 7 protests impose on the local farmers report to the bus into the holland building over what they call distributive e v. i does not need any push up from listing board. does not see any certificates are dictations from the rest in board or they got it hits and other sides of the right shelf or any other country fault. that's my job and exclusive interview with on see those to some of the indies. moving bodies of his age and reserves his right to to independence and 17, and defines what some pressure was. all the lights, his head dogs,

we chose to check out all to the calling for the news in that. so i will be back of the top of the hours on the, the, the, the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered on peter level. a pattern has a merge to more, the west panics. over its failed ukraine project. the more it is willing to escalate the complex, the same conflict that they say they're not directly involved in. the last thing they are considering isn't negotiated. settlement the cross talking ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, larry johnson in tampa. he's

a managing partner for burg associates, a former c i a analyst, and us state department counterterrorism official. and like jackson, we have daniel mcadams, he is the executive director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity. and here in moscow we have set us up. could i please, nick? he is a former us army officer and veteran probably gentlemen across top roles, and i think that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated, daniel, let me go to you. so many things have been happening over the last few days. the usual nonsense coming from the french president contradictory information uncomfortable coming from sergeant schultz in germany. and then of course, we have these german generals talking. but you know, all in all in, if you want to kind of distill down what's going on is what's called sunk cost fallacy. they cannot comprehend that they have put so many resources into a project that is failed utterly. but they're willing to double down. daniel, as well, you know, here we have a sen, michael rubio from florida, and i think it was just that. i said, i knew all along ukraine couldn't win. i just didn't want to say anything because i

didn't want to, you know, just discourage anyone or dissuade anyone. and i think that's the carrier of the bag. i remember after a few years in iraq, you started seeing people all the think tankers and all the experts started saying that, well, i knew all along, it was a bad idea. well, i knew all along, they didn't have views. i just didn't say anything. so i think when you start seeing the rats like rubio clean the sinking ship, i think, you know, at least in the us, the game is up. and when you talk about, we'll talk about later, the, the money and the republican party in the us as we move into the electro season. it doesn't look good from the us side for ukraine. well, you know, larry, there seems to be this infallibility complex that these people have, but they just cannot comprehend that they have a major escape look, afghanistan, iraq, that's far away. you can say it was a long time ago, but this is impacting the world in a way they never could have imagined particularly europe here, and it's reputational damage. here they are not infallible, and that's what they're finding out. larry. a, there's

a whitening gulf between the rhetoric has a capability. so on the one hand, as we solve a theatre, separate conversations with the germans. yeah there's, there's always talk about boy yeah we, when we went to escalate this or we want to lucky using the taras missile to hit the coach bridge. but then at the same time they can see it. well, yeah. okay. it's going to take 8 months. we can't do it right away. member the 1000000 shells we were going to produce for ukraine. oh, well, okay. we did 300000. so they did the across the board, the, the us military kept me this recruiting goals the british have. or what i call the jeff pile dysfunction, they can launch a missile out of a submarine. and so from the actual military capability, the nato has it's, it's, it's a rex, it's a disaster. and yet, the, the, the,

what they're saying and the threats that they're making towards russia are becoming sort of more intense. so the really is a disconnect. well, larry, i want it before i go to spanish volunteer can, can you just give us an assessment of the french army right now? well, by the way, the go i was going to ask larry what, what the, what the, what the french army, what is it status right now? i mean, is it a, is it a major power? no, no. okay. okay, hold. that's awesome. good to go to status. well, for right now, well, the french president is talking about sending troops. now i don't speak french, i've looked at the transcript, it's hard to say the same french troops or nato troops. it's unclear, at least my reading of it. but what about that? i mean, we're talking about escalation, this is what this program is called, expect escalation, nato troops in ukraine. really status? well. well, 1st of all, by the way, the jackson issue isn't just the, what the british, the germans show, the same thing in the red sea when they try to down an american drone that they

took to be a hall style to missiles. both in this fell into the sea, so it's a sunday or wide issue, you know, even even in the ninety's and begin to thousands of a serve and you could watch the degradation and discipline, you can watch the degradation in combat readiness. now, those are already underway. across the french do have units that can go, they've got the french for legion, they've got special forces troops, but they're not enough to fight an actual war. so i think what they're hoping is, once they go in and they'll pull the rest of the data with, with them behind them, that's one thing. if it's just the french or it's the pre baltic states that go in there and some, and they'll back off. it's a different thing. i mean, if it's a polls or for both, it's a different thing. if it's a french, the germans, that weren't a british go in, they'll pull it, they've got enough weight to pull most of natal behind them. whether nato likes it or not. once a bullet starts flying things to the i'm, you know, i don't want to be too blunt here, but i mean,

the one to russian missile to kill like a nato sells or just like it kills a ukrainian one. what's the difference? right, well, we can ask the 60 or so french soldiers and art, and they've got a, it's got the thank you for reminding our audience. they maybe that is like, got the chrome, i'll set off. i mean, he, he's a, he's, he always has, he's triggers around to mom. we've gotten used to that with the french president, daniel, you know, the same with me, chrome, he said defense essentially that russia should not be allowed to win. i think really what he's saying is that nato should not be allowed to lose. so when i was really confused when they said that because i thought they already were winning the agent to be here. so are they already work? you know, i mean, i was listening, i guess, to the wrong us generals who said that we said, well, you know, they'd already one. so is it does smack of desperation. and you know, it's, they're sending all sorts of signals the, the intercepting conversation,

what's actually the germans are saying today. it wasn't intercepted at all. he's basically a boomer mistake. one of the generals didn't dial in. right. and so don't know, don't blame us off. we're still secure, don't worry, they haven't heard anything. we've said, but these things keep leaking out and they keep pointing in one direction, which as, as you appropriately titled the show escalation. and i just wonder, you know, it seems like the little baltics are just trumping at the bit and to get in, if this is some sort of signal for them to get more involved. well, daniel, what do they actually have? i mean, nato consists of 2 major militaries, the united states, which is far away. it has bases in europe, obviously. and there's turkey, turkey is not going to get involved in this whatsoever. so what is left? i mean, what should rush it'd be worried about? well that is desperation because we're moving it now with every day it becomes clear and clear. and this is particularly true yesterday when the us supreme court said no states, you can't kick

a guy off the ballot because you don't like him. it's becoming clear and clear, the trump will be the nominees, and the numbers are certainly his way when you look at national home. so trump for all of his fault and there are plenty of them. he, it, these to this point is not displayed an appetite for going all in. if you remember back when the so called chemical attack and really happened, you loved a couple of bombs out into some field somewhere. he didn't go all and so i think that is responsible for a good deal of the panic. yeah, well, i, larry, i am a, what is nato as a military force visa v. russia as well? it is there nothing there is to put it simply look, the reason they to has expanded over the years is because that was the only way that nato could maintain force level for structure. and so without that, because they weren't able to build up and sustain their own armies. i mean, right now, the british army, i think its full strength is 70000. and all of that,

if you, what are they called the anybody combat capable, you're, you're lucky. maybe at 30000. well, you know, the, the russians are showing do that. it, in 2 weeks of the did oh, you know, the, the french army has similar challenges as do the germans. so across the board, you, you wind up with this patchwork quilt of different military capabilities, different military traditions, different military organizations. they try to standardize it and, and the line that's been coming out of washington is all port nato's more united. the never. well, you know, that that name is sort of gone away, particularly with my career on and, and shows, uh, uh and, and then the ultimate uh, cap bite with each other. uh and, and the bread so, you know, they're, they're very unhappy with the germans as well. because shoals, uh, out of them is, you know, that they're active and on the ground

a new crate. well i, i think you could make an argument span of swap that the french and the british always are upset with the germans. it's just a historical thing. okay, but i mean, it's interesting, spanish law face given the, the scope in our conversation so far. i think the blame game is already started. what do you think's as well, you know, this kind of reminds me of a bomb is no child left behind program or on american schools. when it gets lowered, the standard so low, you couldn't leave anybody behind because anybody could step over. nato integration is gone about the same way. we've lowered the standards so low that a lot of your story, it looks like a military power. on the other hand, you know, to be honest. uh there are enough military units there that if they start a flight, it's going to be a flight. you bear to be lost as on both sides. it's not going to be over in a week. it'll be over, it will be over and only one direction. unless some, some miracle happens for nato, but it's still going to be a flight. it's still going to be award. so it's an editor. we should downgrade it.

totally as if there's no, that's not going to have anything. well, i mean, so we have a nightstand airport. so then what will you be knowing the military? i mean, if you're going to have air support, do, does need to have air support in ukraine or outside of ukraine if it's outside of ukraine. isn't that a fair target? yeah, absolutely. right now the way they're doing it is the plains are hiding mostly in poland. they fly out of poland. they land in ukraine on the ukrainian, the air base, the fuel, our arm up and then fly emission. so right now rush is kind of ignore that and they're not hitting them in poland. now the problem with f sixteens is a, they are made for asphalt carmax. they're not made for a concrete carmax. the way to the soviet and russia now plains are made for true for them to land on the concrete topping. right. they have to carry a lot less weight, otherwise they'll break their traffic. nobody the landing gear. so for that matter,

that means that's a lot more of a constrain. listen because he got less fuel less ordinance. now if they're flying out of poland, it's already been said and i hope that's the line. that's how they're flying at a pool and go straight to the combat mission. those polish air bases are part of the fight, and they're part of the flight. there are league, there are a legal and moral target to be hit. so do you want to set that up there at target here, gentlemen, we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with our to the the

the purpose of the initial issue, the youngest, the protocols, show me the enchanted fugitive. the bustle told brands of showing shootings that are to them, we have some sort of forward and i'm wondering if somebody wants this kindergarten . i shall don't slash which one of those recently me know to the most if the use of the 20 and i get angry. so by knowing me to the states this work, but i'm gonna use of the isn't boy most pretty as grammar and the by the, the way to somebody alone, extra money medium. and then assuming anything me ask my key at the united nations

and no one continues to just test on them for that or can you but the still showing what are you mean by the southern using the welcome back to the prospect where all the things are considered, i'm peter louisville. true mind you were discussing. you create the

so let's go back to daniel lake jackson, a, the american angle, and all of this is of course the a, the senate passed the, the house and with uses even to discuss at this point here. um is, will there be a, a go around you? will there be eventually some kind of aid still going to ukraine. visa be you just, i was gonna mention mario rubio, but you get given that kind of uh, a logic of coming from marco rubio. some money will eventually get there because its biden's prestige on the line. yeah, i think with every passing day it's less likely they'll get the full enchilada sent to them. the $61000000000.00. but again, we're moving heavily now into the election season. a trump has all but captured the nomination as the republican and he has, he's essentially the head of the republican party united states now. and so you have a republican house that literally hangs within a hair's breadth of a majority. they kicked out a republican because he was

a weirdo. and now they have basically, you know, one or 2 guys. so it's very important that the republican house, at least a lines itself with president trump. and i think that's what they want to do despite the misgivings among some show is say, more rhino or back venture type republicans. so was every day there's, there's more of a danger that they won't pass. but there needs, as you say, it needs to be something that will pass in. speaker johnson is not a good, ideologically opposed or pretty opposed in principle to send the money to ukraine when he's on the he, he voted for money in the past. okay. i mean, he was on board for that he has in the past, but now there's just basically the stand off about immigration. and so they, republicans anyway, have a use this as a, a, as a of a with against the democrats are present. and by the, we need a serious immigration of the bill or we're not going to pass the money. so it's kind of a challenge got with being thrown down now and the democrats can afford it back off

and on immigration now they've already lost, you know, states like, uh like michigan you know, to abide this last that because he decided to align completely with his real, and that's another story. so you're really having a something that's going on in the political sphere now that goes well beyond the war fighting the larry i'm, i'm sure you use lloyd austin's testimony to congress. i don't know what you know. maybe he's just recovering from his surgery because this guy was so delusional. the scare mongering of it was so transparent as well. again, desperation in the air, larry, to whether they're trying to do everything they can to put pressure on congress to cough up the money. speaking of coughing, and here's the issue. there is not the kind of political base in the united states for ukraine that exists for israel. so, you know, the theme, the theme song for congress ought to be that the, from the, you know, the movie,

cabaret money, money, money, money, money, money, money, the money makes the world go round. so i do think congress ultimately will allocate, they will approve funds for quote, you crate. but the reality of that money is not going to ukraine. it's going to general dynamics is going to rate the on it's going to lockheed martin and staying in the united states. and then it's getting passed back to the members of congress who's going to need to have some, some cash or election coffers coming up for november. so, i mean, it's a scale. and at the same time, the united states is under great pressure from the american is rarely political action committee to pony up the funds to keep this role in the fight. and it's a united states does not have limitless military capability. they've got to make choices. and so their choices in that is, they're gonna, they're gonna send whatever equipment, material, munitions, to israel,

but to ukraine, ukraine's toast. yeah, well, it's a set us up. it's very interesting that it gets down to legal requirements to send money to ukraine. but if there is no barriers to send it to israel, congress i think, has already been over written twice by this administration. it's not, it's, i have a kind of a military question for you. i mean, is one of these things that going back to what i'm a chrome had to say, and i don't know, maybe he's just wanting to remain relevant. you know, he wants that i'll do the germans and the bread. so i don't know, there could be an internal dynamic there, but there's this sense, you know, if day to send troops, the ukraine, the russians won't dare touch them. that is ridiculous thinking span as well. yeah . you know, when you're in a proxy where you've got one or 2 choices, when you're losing either leave or you double down. and that seems nato the problem with a lot of need or leadership to is there in an echo chamber here, the same thing back. they talk the same words, they speak the same words and you're the same thing back and forth. and they came

here and how russia is just on the break. just a little more, i know, finally, correct. it's the same thing is when you go to vegas and you put your kids what your college funds on the line, the house, the wife's wedding ring, and just one way. and i'll get it all back. but you're not going to get it all back . you're going to go for their broke it and you're looking basically gambling addicts as well. they've put everything on the line short of their own countries and they're willing to do that too. well, if the, if i can do the better for so i liked the vegas made of course of ukrainians or the chips. right? yeah. oh yeah. oh, or is this a federal a table spinning a and they're losing the house wins, and they're not the house much. they want to think their house. daniel, really, the desperation that you, you see coming out of your opinions is that nato is facing a strategic defeat. and that's something they simply can't comprehend. candy daniel, no, they can't at all. and that's why you see bizarre things like german generals talking

behind the backs of their commander in chief, who says no, no, torres is and then, and then you have the conversation, how many tours will it take to new the bridge? but i'm one of the, the, the, to pick about something this thomas love said, because he makes an excellent point. and it reminds me so much that we have learned nothing from iraq. because i remember when i was working in the house with dr. paul, endless. foreign affairs committee hearings with fred kagan waddling in their sitting down and telling us, just one more serge, guys, just one more serge, we've almost got this thing one for both your rock in afghanistan by the way. so this is the, this is the garbage that they've pulled all along. they haven't learned from it the, because they profit from it. but picking up on something that larry said as well, if you look at the, the opinion polls in the us, not only is a to ukraine, extremely unpopular, particularly among republicans. i think it's something like 75 percent. but certainly in the mid the high sixty's overall oppose it,

but even more aid to israel, surprisingly enough, the lose the last poll i saw 50 some 59 percent of republicans were opposed to more military aid to israel. so these wars are extremely unpopular. i can't help but think that republicans and press and past and potentially future president trump aren't looking at these polls. yeah, larry, one of the interesting things i listening to um are the, the probably the woman that we probably all agreed should be demonized. the most is victoria newland, and she said twice when she was in k of and then later i had a conference is that there be some surprises for putin and she likes to say, it seems to me considering the german, the league, german conversation. so it's terrorism that they're going to in conduct. that's what they, that's what the surprises are. terrace terrorist acts against civilians. larry, as well. yes. but russia is, i think, aware and prepared for you know,

this, this get a series of incidents this last week where you 1st had this, the statement from my car on, you know, the escalated, know that and let's say time it came out with a new york times article about c i a basis in ukraine and the, all that the stuff in c, i a, was doing for this a for the ukrainian war. and then you had put in speech of the state of the union state of russia. and was it put in as a very clear markers about what the west is facing, that they continue this and then the leak. and i do believe the leak came from russian intelligence. it was not accidental. there there put the west. i notice, okay, you play this game now for over 2 years of using you, you of, it's certainly yourselves in this war, but pretending that you're not there, it's for of killing russians and not taking responsibility. that's over. and in fact, we had a news report just the other day, i think the day before yesterday,

it looks like the russians did hit one of the ca, bases around. so me and killed the personality. and nobody's saying anything about it. they want to keep that under wraps, but i think i think the russians have now made the decision. okay, the, the gloves in that respect are coming off. if, if the nato forces continue to insert themselves this way, we will hit them and we will make them pay, you know, as status of the essentially the same questionnaire. i mean, nato is over inflated sand. as a matter fact, if you really think about of nato, really, i never expected that a long term conflict they, they, they, they, they believed in the fantasy that the russian troops went up to the cabin and they ran away. and you know, they could call victory or as johnson called it off, and now they're stuck with a hand that they dealt themselves status well, a. yeah, you know, a product of to the surface think the ukrainians use flying columns. uh no strong

point was ever taken uh, our neighbors, son was fighting one of those strong points. they got pulled, they got in circles, they got pulled out by russian advice, relief troops, and they stepped back. but they stepped back in an orderly manner. continue the lines that were a, a flexible defense. so they were falling back on new lines, new lines after they've got down to a hardened line that the ukrainians couldn't push through. the other thing that nobody talks about is ukraine had an armored test that it created with several brigades, and it kept them in high to come around civilians knowing that the civilians aren't going to get hit. that's another parking uh, built in the underground garages areas like that, knowing that russia isn't going to hit those builders. i gotta do a garza on, on how to go. well, that honored fist had to come out for this flight and they lost a good chunk of that on the 5th. so that had been putting together for a while as far as terrorism. let's start 2014. you could ask my elderly and then uh yes, the photos the 9 years under fair. when i went there last time, i saw it was in november we we came flying in there at

a 140 kilometers in our through. i bombed up our road. you can't go slower than that. you've got drones over here that are bring an artillery rounds on civilian cars. you've got drones that are come across these. oh drones. if we these wind all over the place, so you've got to fly in fast just to get into the town. and then, you know, they, they get artillery costs and like, well, i'll stand in or talk with my uncle when you can hear their tell around coming in. you know, i'm, i'm, i sort of close enough that if it's google good, i will have a, are totally around landing of my head. you know, welcome jesus. that's, that's kind of that moment. we're going to worry about it coming down the top of my head. you know, that's how that's how all the people lived at 9 years. uh, i'm really glad that you mentioned that because it is never enough said that this war has been going on since 2014 and the people of the don massport care reiser 8 of those years. and it's something that they will never forget. and the russian people will never forget, and the russian political late will never forgive the defeated,

the west conducted itself around the minsk agreements. that's all the time we have gentlemen and want to thank my guest in tampa, lake jackson, and in moscow. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember, costs on the, [000:00:00;00] the

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