it is letting me a put in who is expected to have had a good war. and when a 5th presidential time in the kremlin, today, a decade to the day that the people have called me a overwhelmingly voted to rejoined russia. i'm joined from las go by the former director of the now defunct carnegie must go center. that was the russian army, the controversial washington base, carnegie endowment for international peace. he's also are tied connell in the solve using russian on forces. and he's now a member of russia's foreign and defense policy council, dr. dimitri training. thank you so much, dr. training for coming on. today's also the anniversary of the my lai massacre in vietnam, but i don't think they donation that propaganda. media are going to be talking about $6000000.00 dead indo china. it will actually be claiming on the 2nd day of voting there in russia, it will be claiming pigeon is a dictator. and is that the question or is the question, why is the so popular on the 2nd day of voting? well, i think he is a genuine lady of someone who is popular i,

i don't think is, is the right word under the circumstances. i think that the. busy or the vast majority of russians, he is the right man at the right time in the right job. and they want you to stay in the job and call it support call at the popular the. but that's, that's, that's the reality. and i think that the final result of the vote will show that he is popularity is at its highest uh, or one of the highest level since he assumed power the quarter century ago. and why did the russian people feel that way, given that some i think he was the wrong man at the wrong time. he's delay enacting to stop the nature of a nation proxy war through ukraine to save the people of the don't bass of cause. now the us presses revealing the c i a basis on russia's board is, is, i don't need to call me in this part in the duma that fullest his hand. he's the

wrong person. his me, he belatedly came in to defend those people being massacred by nature nation weaponry. well, if we're talking about the conflict in ukraine that started back in 2014, i think at that time a present person took a, a view that the issue could be solved by a combination of the, of a russian action in crimea. and crimea is a review and if a cation with the russian federation and the same time. busy a diplomatic, a political solution with regard to done best, the 2 regions have done bastard. yes, general gosh. the moscow does not recognize the southern states, a sovereign entities, a box for under crane until on the eve of the military action to a special military operation that could be ordered on the 24th of february 2022.

busy it is later and abuse he regretted. or at least he talked about the option of, of using fully the mandate that he was given in 2014 by the russian federation. cultural the upper chamber which. busy gave him the right to use russian military forces in ukraine, not just in crimea, which at that time belonged to great, but in the country, in general. at the time when the legitimate president was toppled by western supported mob in a cool and russia still did not recognize that new authority is m t m. so poor essentially gay is diplomacy a chance that she asked was never taken by the opposite side. yeah,

and so he trusted the mens process whilst people are being held in eastern ukraine. i know he was in to the boss as it, when libya advocates, richards per capita, country was destroyed, was made, we had to win rusher, abstained to the security council. but it seems that we have a lot going on with these russian leaders in the trusting european players. i know a, a, b, c, i, anglo miracle is subsequently said them in process was just to delaying tactic to increase um supplies to k of. do you think persian is learn to lot in the past 5 years. i don't think we'll learn to lock in the best ideas or the last uh, 30 years if you take a longer view. i think that the russians today are in general, very different. obviously they're attitudes to afford this is they were um,

in the, in the ninety's or in the early 2, thousands. i think they uh, they certainly would not trust other people's words. they would look at their own um capabilities of protecting their own interests. that would come 1st and any guarantee is that the forwarding is, could be a radically give, could only be, uh, uh, was anything, if uh, the russian positions were uh, sufficiently backed up by russians own forces. i should say the far right could testing the elections and the left. i would never say they would not eve about these threats. what is the source of this? now you see that you talk about a month to put in and other people. i don't know what you is saying actually after the 2014 the crew, infamously. yeah. the victoria newland phone,

cool. explaining how they did it. will you also trusting these west indeed just because i tell you the global south now on roger side, they never trusted. these full the colonial most to countries, i think that they will pull it maybe, but the i think that the booth and sofa talked about ne, that day one um when, when, when he was was asked that question awhile ago. i think we all uh, believe that the wind up the cold. well why? um, i think there is, uh, that is something about uh, russia after twos, to uh, the outside world including the western world. um that is uh that tends to look for um you know, a good outcomes uh, bid relations, uh uh, russians and people with long memories. but those long memories do not hinder

them. i forget things will not forgetting but forgiving somebody. you are in the secret, jarvis is, was that your attitude to surely you knew there was some diffuse and every other country from latin america through africa, through the south east asia in the far east as meetings. and if you liked it in some way, by all sorts of soft power entities and the map from the world bank, and yet there was this level of trust amongst the post soviet to leads in the past 10 years. or i think that is not just the lead, something it says is that it's a broader phenomena. just think of it 28000000 sylvia citizens died as a result of the german invasion of the soviet union back in 1941. and yet russians until broken until today, actually there are very little bra drum no grudge against the germans of today. i

guess the german people in general. uh there is nothing like what the premiums are doing with regard to the russian heritage in, in ukraine. uh, that was, that was happening in russia and the show would be a junior in the wake of the 2nd world war. as long as the does, the enemy was defeated. he was looked upon as in many ways except for those who were brought to trial as victims of the nazi propaganda, victims of the nazi regime. and they were made to france into france and dental problems. and in the early 2000, you won't believe it today, but germany was considered to be the friendliest nation. as far as russia was concerned, except maybe for bill, or there's an inkling with the russian mind to look at the brighter side of things

to look up the possibilities of friendship and partnership and, and stuff like that. it's uh, i think that it's, it's part of belonging to a big nation, which essentially feels basically secure, which doesn't, to, doesn't engage in that the charges and, uh, you know, all the, that you just see in spades around russia never actually happened within russian. and i think that's a good thing that you know, this pre, a pre di, let's try to see the better side of your, of your neighbors, of, of, even though the form and ok, lee things, why warm between button and then moscow and then okay, if i'm accusing the entire rushes, elite system of being i eve. i think it surprises everyone,

the reaction to the american destruction of the north stream pipeline that was so important for germany's economy. perhaps no one could have predicted that. but surely, voters will be saying, look at those problems with the wagon the private most and reach out to us group in the past couple of years have look at the fact that uh, look at the fact that i'm actually just relating to what you just said the secret service is in russia, i had no idea that what was really going on in these european capital, just to double cross boots in every step of the way on ukraine as it did on every other issue, seemingly as well. i think, i don't know, but i would presume that uh, the uh, the russian intelligence, but as a supply and a brand new leadership, whereas the adequate people uh, replace with washington adequately described this situation in those capitals and those countries. my age here,

the crew in care of. uh uh yeah so, so i don't think that there were illusions, but they will have, they will have the, the political solutions was a possibility. i think those folks lasted at least until 2019. i think it was in 2019 the the failed attempt by russia to reach out to the newly elected ukrainian president. a lot of them, it was a landscape and engage him in the discussion about the political solution in don't past that the that they eventually this abuse themselves of, of those early illusions. probably 2019. i think we're seeing there's some escalation of the, of tensions and, and. busy they do waning of, of hints with regard to the dissolution. now the,

to the gradient crisis. but prior to that for, for 5 years, there were a, they, they will hoax. i think that the, there was some sort of a hope that russia is uh, established as a nuclear super power would uh, protect it from being a grist politically in such and such a sensitive area. the were always memories of the cuban missile crisis. and the way the united states reacted to the soviet incursions in the, in the western hemisphere, the people thought, well, that was the lesson we lot of that was also the lesson that the united states might have learned. but that was, i think people were wrong, including myself. i think i also believe that talk to the major trend and i'll stop you. the more from a member of russia as foreign and defense policy council after this, by the,

[000:00:00;00] the spending their juvenile like some incredible proportions. only 3000 my turn. now to the latest on russia's presidential election. well, well, well, at least turn it up the

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the full, the director of the content, the most go center, a no member of russia's for and defense policy council. talking to me through training. we were just talking about the 1962 in relation to these elections and how, perhaps no one expected the brinkman ship from washington, given the nature of powers acting against russia through ukraine of nuclear weapons . but on the election itself, you know, how propaganda media in the western countries we will cover this election, they'll say that there are um, widespread irregularities that were according to goals, which is quoted in the most code time. if you haven't used the papers in russia that can oppose the government giving you don't have them in european union countries. and certainly britain where i'm from. why is it assigning week this, the nato countries will be desperately reviving the, the name of the valley, a man who is hated in the muslim world, of course,

for his supportive examination in wisdom. and they'll be reviving his name and be talking about widespread violations at these so called free elections in russia as well. i don't think that people know, as opposed to a few years earlier, the care at all about how the west, cesar rushes election. the important thing is how the russian people see these elections and invite you the russian people. overwhelmingly. i believe that the elections are what they should be and that the result of the election actually reflects the popular will. is it your sense that there are demographic analyses to be done as to a russian vote? is elderly pul, roaches, perhaps supporting the communist party?

well, middle class ones of the cities voting for the liberal party, the majority voting for a protein. that is the dynamics involved at this election. so i think there's always dynamics in, in any election in the demography is one of the very important ingredients, analyzing the results of a golf of any election. i think that the, in russia though, there has been a shift, a massive shift toward um, um, but what you would call patriot is this to pave. it is now a good the flag, bearer of the paid it is of course is press the book. but also i would say, i would say that uh the, uh, uh what, what stands out in this uh, election campaign. and uh, i guess the background of, of, of the war that's going on. uh, not very far from where i sit in,

in moscow. uh is uh the emphasis on the social programs in uh, in the present good news that likes to, i'll program and in, in, in the actions of the, of the russian government. so uh, quote is, um, essentially focusing on social issues, even as russia has to invest much more in the defense industry and national defense in general. and i think that is something that the uh, the, the russian public believes is, uh, is right. so you need to have trust, strong, military and up, strong, military needs to protect your national interest. but you also need to avoid mistakes that the soviet union made an actually put in uh, recently, uh, refer to the, um, uh,

essentially putting too much investment into the military dash, uh, literally awning itself to death and business holding the balance between the needs of, of national security on the one hand, on the knees of social development on the other a well activity. another critics in the united states about the fact that there are a validly favoring military keynesian is a, is a way to recover the united states economy. but does put, you know, joe biden, to best buy, and on the 26 of march 2022 thing puts in, cannot remain in power. is it statements like that ever explicit statements from the white house by joe biden, that with the boots in the can tank, biding for in terms of the reaction in russia. just statements like that. i would say this was the spend, the mental changes that are happening in russia right now. does a see change happening in russia from russian federation,

1.0 to russian federation, 2.0. these changes would never, in my view be possible, at least uh, in the short term, absent uh, the, uh, absolutely, the 0 that reaction, the west to the uh, special military operation is ukraine. so the decision to put russia under the harshest of sanctions regime witnessed in modern history and absence the proxy war that the united states and its nato allies waging a guest russia in ukraine. many of those changes would take much longer and maybe we would not see them for, for a very long time. so in

a way there's so for structure, they, they, aggression from, from the outside has pushed russia off the, uh, the, the point where it got stuck in the middle to late, 20 tens. and now rush, i think, is a developing much faster in so many rail was and then uh then uh, let's say a decade ago or 2 decades ago when it was pursuing straight down the line. you are a liberal policies on the cloths congress. this issue is there a degree of forgiveness then because of the sanctions? because the, it's clear that we're around and go to reports of either poor or russians got drafted 1st and conscripted 1st to the front. there were a teasing problems of some would say, inexcusable. as regards the leadership in the military as part of this operation. i mean it was only this week that the the end of the navy, i understand nicolay,

i'm having always been relieved of his post to come on to do the russian people forgive these problems as part of this special military operation. we don't hear that kind of problem, particularly on the nature of back proxy forces. well, i don't think you can talk about forgiveness, but i think the reality is that the more exposure is uh, failures are shortcomings, uh times uh, committed to the start and uh at the beginning of the war. you have to pay for them dear. and i think russia, russian, today's no exception, people killed a builder on this waiting list. the people who killed the list really. right, right. no, no, it's, uh, it's, it that, that's correct. but that is, uh, i don't think that it begins to give

a guess is the right word. they think that people uh shelby just shall be brought to account and i'll be brought to go. uh for the uh, for this thing is they did wrong. they bought the sale is that they were responsible for uh, maybe you do not publicized that during what time on the actual work type or the fact old work time um but uh clearly there that's that there, there are lots of lots of, uh, shortcomings and problems in the system, but uh you would also, uh, i think agree that uh, in the 2 years of fighting russia has learned a lot has gained a lot of experience. and that experience uh has a, uh well, you know it's, it's a so, oh, and to somebody is a excellent effort to ramp up, for example, production. now,

for all the military, material of people on the other side were, were strong by russia, being able to ramp up for the production of is tillery shells, tags, aircraft, and, and many other war machines. and also the russian economy is the russian financial system has been able to withstand the master blow that, again, the people who engineer to sanctions regime. so the russia would crumble, that rumble will be drugged durable. and, you know, we've heard all the staves, and these things did not come true. again, this was also thanks to somebody is up. and there were a expectations that russian public would probably be so shaken. i agree that as a result of the war that they were trying to get him started to use or it is that

the, the russian that leads would uh, try to topple the leadership. that there will be beauty, news. and we, i think we can close to mutiny a year ago. the answer for to yes, we're talking uh, june 20th 3. uh, all these things uh, did happen. but uh, essentially, uh, russia's been able to withstand all those pressures. although at the price, i would say at the high price and uh, basically uh, the, i think the, uh, the uh, the, the root cause of many of those uh, shortcomings less splintered. let's put it that way. they try. it definitely was the notion of that was widespread. the after, let's say there early, 2000 stuff,

they'll be no large scale wars in europe. that the brochure should not be getting ready for a major war on the european theater. and, you know, that turned out to be false. russia did fight to successfully in syria. russia did take over crimea without the shot being fired. excellent operations. it'd be sleeping, operation, caustics, done in, uh, january 22. but uh those were started that those were standing uh, uh, a g much. okay. well just as the war of attrition grinds on to what, maybe military and let's say certain russian eventual victory depending on whether there's a new cable before and, and they're on nato troops. set aside from the british ones, actually stationed in the ukraine. if uh, if uh, trump wins as the polls show, he will. uh, what will it mean?

i know that i put in all the records that you prefer by that google predictable. is that more worrying for world peace or, or given what withdrawal ben said this week, and that money would stop flowing to as a lensky and key of what did actually make for peace, much quicker as well. we don't know what happens if crump lives, whether that victory will be accepted by a what some people call the deep state in the united states. whether that victory would uh, drown the us foreign policy. i'm to something totally unpredictable, but they just can't live there. but i would, anything may happen, you know, i'll roll out anything in this, you know, at this point. so the united states may indeed be much more unpredictable if,

if that happens showcasing the has a point of referring to devil who knows to the situation under under a trump presidency um in, but in any way, uh, the uh, the current escalation policies pursued by the united states and uh, sometimes uh, with the initiative going from america's european allies, those uh, attempted escalation, including uh, the possibility of sending a regular flushes of nato countries to ukraine. actually pushing us closer and closer to the break. and i'm, i'm really stunned by what i think is totally on think about it, particularly the countries of europe,

pushing the situation toward something that can not be ready go lee, but actually obliterate their old countries. and i have only, i'm in perfect explanation to that phenomena. dr to me through trying to thank you and that's it for the show. a continued condolences to the surviving whole nature of back was despite the russian and chinese votes with you and to seize 5. on monday we'll be talking garza minutes, the genocide which homer is really officer. negotiate a now president of the us middle east project, daniel levy until then keep in touch with la social media of assault cents, an annual country and have to watch. i don't think i'll be around tv all normally they'll come to what's new and old episodes of going underground. see monday, the one year to do that. you attempted to come,

but at the extra amount apache sat there for the show and then it will be a job to bluff for the cause of a dish. international stuff is defensive to supplement the setup button and not the printer doesn't want to lose it. ask you like that if i see the media and then people doesn't need to. reason, can you say with the city, the new country tempe, each of us going to be presented. it was working monday me to work it on stimulus the industry on these little less money. proof of concept really left. so should william farmer shots might give us who we have got cash door to go over? what decision did my lab and what was that, man? it was what was that ridiculous funds i put in the best one today and but you know, so that's what it is that you want to set. i'm showing total suspect pretty sure

can was on page, did it for she's getting. those are best do what i mean? there's a push out the, the russian forces repelling. now there are 10 via cranium troops to answer the trade, the border region of belgrade, where 2 civilians were killed by selling any of this fat today. also these odd and we live in our special electric studio in the heart of most scope with date to all voting and effect. now for the russian presidential election of 2024 to ready voter turnout at 50 percent. details up and coming on back with you in just a moment. i'm on the regents taking part in the election is one of the country's most changing south of the cities of us. the poland, probably which we united with russia