the, the just behind me is the very hall of this fall country at house music festivals, christmas mall kids. the big 3 day parades. and today it was hosting a concept to celebrate the 10th out of the 3 of crime is reunification with russia . with lot him at 210 congratulating the nation on this historic date. crimea is 1st and foremost, the people. they carried faith in the fatherland through the decades. they have never separated themselves from russia, and this is what allowed crimea to return to common families. meanwhile, the returning head of state had special price, so the cash, the presidential balance inventions coming under constant attacks by ukraine posters, which didn't stop even after the boat and wrapped up at the

congratulations to vladimir and put new selection wind up for an aim from around the world with india and china among the laces, defend their best wishes. that in contrast to the criticism and condemnation heard from the west, the does all the headlights plus our head to our website. our teeth come for more. i'm, they show, i just go in underground is up. next the i'm action or can see welcome back to going underground pool ca single around the world from the way as we enter the 2nd week of the muslim holy month of ramadan, over 2200000 palestinians and gaza. a plunge deeper into hung up with hundreds of

was is on the brink of simon, is the binding to ministration. having pledge to build temporary dorks on gauze and stores to deliver aid single tenuously for those billions of dollars into arming israel, which continues to block the flow of a central supplies like food, water, and medicine to gauze with desperate population joining the nose down your levy a veteran is riley piece, negotiate who participated in the official delegations with the top on negotiations on the brock. and the also told some they were being that'd be kind of nice of as the president of us middle east project, you joins me now from london. thank you so much, daniel for coming back on last time we spoke more than a 1000 palestinians, have been wounded in in jerusalem back in 2021. what does it meant? first of all, do you witnessing what the i c, j goes plausible, genocide is a former advisor to and is there any prime minister and now at the middle east project there in london? well, i'd like to be able to say that who could have imagined, how could anyone have seen this coming? how did we get here?

unfortunately, that's not a story that anyone who. ready is following this close can tell themselves because last time we spoke, we could have descended into something much less just as we mentioned option. this was during world palestinians include the unity into father may 2021. there's this idea of the permanent dispossession of palestinians. the permanent denial of their rights and freedoms could somehow be managed in a cost free list peaceful way, of course, palestinians, prior to october 7th, you structural violence every day. that was that lot. but this was really low to some and it was predict how many of us i was, you know, suggest that i was uniquely a person,

a full size. if this was passing fully predictable. it seemed fact the house was that is, that is so sold destroyed because nowhere in history across global geography can you keep that people don't want just to find that type of set. i, i, you know, one violation of international. ready does not justify, i know, but a cool space was going to blow up and it was aging. if it flows, we could see it. we saw it in may 2021. we saw it with the more egregious measures the then people hope for the about the payment piece government to this, we saw it get eval, was with the increasing publications of matching young's coalition with bank of a small church. so i don't believe that there's such a thing as consulting violets, but i do believe that some talked

a system that is fairly struct. stop the feels like it's stable, but in fact is demonstrating manifest signs of instability. sometimes when there's a rupture, a chris, terrible danger, it creates a rendez, human suffering. that's what we've been seeing every day, almost rains from god, but maybe it creates an opportunity. maybe it tells pete. ready there's no going back to the make believe a piece process. i'm not saying that that's what we will immediately see over. that's the narrative we're hearing right now. but i do. but the shattering of these rating miss of invincibility, the shattering of the hubris from the arrogance, the gulf house here, and all the maintain those, the neighbors, the facilitators of that on the outside, quote, over time. create you openings

a close festival. we need to get to grips with the immediate ren, this conditions in gaza, for the power of senior population, most of them displace everything flattened, at least 30000. probably significant people killed off the back of what is real, which 1 october. so you have a sophistic star upholding changing every day of course, $13000.00 to the and children killed. 17000 children, unaccompanied or separate 260-0000 facing displacement. i mean that's config as if people don't know them are watching the wrong throw media. it gives me imagine netanyahu's coalition. government is the convenient for the countries sending in the weapons now because really then, you know, couldn't do what he wants to do along with the other far right. members of the coalition without the enables of the genocide. so every time people watching this here, the name that yahoo being spat out by biting or so that garage level and the land.

is it really not? i mean that not being and you how, who apologise is it not netanyahu as well as well? i think we have to give the offices of credit where it's due. we have to lay the criminal liability at the correct door in terms of israel's violations. the international norm plausible a contributing of the genocide convention, which the cases to mentioned before. the international court of justice brought by south africa. so i'm not going to take so 100 funds that it yeah that nothing yahoo should be there in the top piece. not the only box. well, i think it's correct to point out that we've out. he's enabled this, this could not be counting on and the not probably all of the people who really should together this honorable mention for being being i was the binding

ministration is crucial because i missed you. sotheby's really say ultimately he's ready. military would acknowledge this is, this is the, the lead just a quick one. the lead correspondence in, in the pre mess, circulation is ready daily. israel high, you on that correspondence. that category is real, could not continue this war. well, not for the american military school. now we have seen you in an american beach most regional new york times have exposed that what we do in terms of the flow of american weaponry. but they've also pointed out that because under these conditions, sutton arms transfers would need to him to go a degree of congressional scrutiny. what the administration has done is create in drugs even around the scrutiny that would have to come within its own system in

order to keep providing the all, to re shells. 2000 pounds, all the jobs be solves etc, most of which are not defensive. because most of which will be offensive when we just close this devastation. because if you break these alms transfers down into smaller chunks, they don't have to go through that accountability transparency cycle. so at the mix of course is, is, is a very obvious point. as to if anyone wanted to end this, how they could and this you store on it. i do think that nothing yahoo is inconvenient of this stage even for those the days is because is disrupting american domestic politics for. ready the president in a re election year, which c not, not just in michigan. we're seeing that imposing across the board. it of course, doesn't look great when you've been on your, a soapbox, preaching as

a model to the world which you on now violating for an awful long time, but as a more valuable decibel levels in the, in the last 2 years. so i think he's inconvenient but clearly not inconvenient to, not just on my log you'd be biding, is done in other countries as well. i'll get onto those that i'm transfers a through in a minute and the i c j. but in which case, what is it that this client stages it's being called has on joe biden, if it's affecting his poll numbers in michigan with a 100000 that the primaries ang, uncommitted. and clearly paving the way for a trump victory in november. what is it they have on biden? and so you do believe that there is this, it's not just but the asterix that by didn't uh, and net and you know, have a problem between them which is constantly being leaked. and i should say, the state department constantly is answering questions about transfers and whether it violates us low or to be sending arms to a country violating human rights goes. i think it's a legitimate question to ask,

you know, is this just for show come on that? is this not something the americans want to see? yeah. and i do not want to dismiss out of hand of the, the idea that the subs is some way american ends. but i, i don't think that's where we all right now in this respect, i think that the, the status quo and t a. ringback it was very credibly described, not just by human rights organizations. palestinian is radian international producer by state type this in the case of the i, c, j. as these ray, the treatment of the palestinians between beating legal definition of a regime of apartheid. i think that is something that the americans with with

totally okay. and in fact i think american plans. ready they. ready off the golf, so all to rephrase this appall type reality, they'll give us a load of the beach in rhetoric about going back to a peace process and to states that there will be nothing meaningful called sequential dogs in order to achieve that. so i think that's ok. i think what's going on now is problematic. i think that taking a geo political hit for it. i think there attempts to create a, an updated version of pax americana for the middle east. has been delta set back up by this action, but the last thing is less than that, i'm telling you from the event and just very quickly though, why do any of us go, why don't they just call that? and you know, and say that the a through instead of is a used to being seen as even in the united states, even from circle mainstream media. i mean, these idea of, um, i mean some people saying it's the gas preserves off the coast of guys and what is all these p is in ports and us soldiers when he can just phone that,

you know and say let the trucks coming through doors and garza and the job is done . why doesn't see what is, what does it and you know, go through them, but i personally, i want to not make it easy on on us. i don't think he can pick out this. i would say let the trucks through and it stopped as i speak, he has the message to achieve not only the best outcome but the ultimately. ready urgent for equal yards and top. com all getting a c spot because you get the truck see if he's really millet reactions still continuing, then you'll never going to be able to play catch up with the devastation that is being caused by what you're getting through your monetary. and maybe let me tell you, of course, and britain abstained in the veto at the top coast alongside the process is to be chose the un security council. there is the responses to v i c j with the us as the school, the south african case mary list with 16 judges rule for provisional measures,

including the american junction at the time within the chat. and, you know, as you know, it's important for us to note that the ad drops and this idea fear of a, c, p, a r b, a demonstration of american weakness. it's prophetic because what needs to get in is the, the, the 8, the volume which you can get in right now through those add port, his own trucks, these rise preventing. now, why that for is that not being pushed, given the leverage that the us has to understand that i don't think we can do justice to that without american domestic politics and the role that is relas played in domestic and american domestic policy just below me. well it, it's the lobby, but it's, it's, it's the israel low be in all its manifestations because the on the is wrong. so it's the absolute, the, the jewish pro israel groups,

evangelical pro as well. groups who don't have a hold on the democrat audi, but they mean that the republican party is absolutely in lock step. with the most 40 shipments inside each row. i think the arms industry isn't particularly keen to see a ceasefire box. well, i only got that here. let me just how stop you. i'm just now be here. the more from the phone that is really piece negotiator under is really 5 minutes. that would brock and you think we're being after this break, the, what is a part of the employee would post that isn't the, the place you of us input in the word part? is it something deeper, more complex might be present? good. let's stop without pleases. let's go part of

the the welcome back to going undergrad. i'm still here with daniel. every bullet is rarely piece negotiator under prime minister. that would brock and you'd check for being and now president of the us middle east peace project. daniel before i read the interrupted uh at the end of the one you were talking about why it is that american politics is so skewed about the genocide in gaza. so a tom be a for me to, to, to tell the, the leadership, the democratic establishment, the white house, how to manage that domestic politics. but i do think one could make an argument. this is a mis read affair of domestic politics. that in fact, with a democrats supporting constituency,

support doing this is doing mobile home. i think however, that is the president's read. if he's domestic politics, it certainly fits with what we know about the role of campaign finance. it gets more money than any other doesn't. a from israeli little bit as well. i, you know, i don't even know if that's true because there's a lot of it to, that's what they raise on the said the grades that, well i, i, i would question i would actually question about the idea of that this in any way benefits biden's re election, we will know in november to some degree one con, isolate any given factor, but i think it's the best reading by of contemporary american politics. i think we should at least consider the by the, the person by the scope. this fact is passing by apparently speaks the goal to me ever to sleep. and i say that send be joking. because whenever he talks about his

route, he still refers to a prime minister from. ready and half a century ago. okay. so yeah, this is, this is a that could be a mental illnesses as a special kind. well, all right, cool. i talked about so it's a big, it's a big, specific divide. but i also would acknowledge that it's not just about that america has a geo political management frame. it the full, the middle east region. it involves me because he's rarely climbed state. i'm not sure i use the word clients, but it involves certain states in the arab state system that are very close to the us. it involves, as well as a central note, and if there's roles acting off of it may be stepping beyond the lies, the, the us would run the risk to it. it can find itself to that is still not going to interrupt the fundamental geo politics. it's much easier if an administration can

tell us a global geo political story of good guys backed eyes and what israel and all those have done to disrupt that is really quite significant. and finally, we, maybe we should not tell us of this story this um, this is so out of sync with american values. i mean one set of the colonial society to another. it may be a gap here of a 100 or more years. but going back to this point about picking up the phone because this is also part of the story for the nothing yahoo government to let what's needed in by way of humanitarian assistance and to aid the kinds of actions that he's taking the gaza, i think would require a sustains, done. in other words, it's not just that 1st the, it's off the week one off to week to you're not providing to weapons, you're not vetoing stuff un security council. you wouldn't need to be able to

sustain this. i think they know that i think they do not read their own politics as allowing them to do that because nothing young will push back it will take time. i believe that these rating system, the military, the public, will not sustain the known provision, especially of america weapons. and the military especially will say, listen guy, we don't care what store, you tell yourself, you tell the public. but you're going to have to move in the direction that telling you to so yes, america has the leverage. no, it's not long ago. yes. they have their own reasons for not using that leverage. and i suppose it should be said, well, let me out. who may not be popular within israel, generally he is popular as but the engagement of this genocide, people in israel, a majority do seem to support the genocide, which means that given what you just said about, i just said,

is this paving the way for expansion into a regional war, i don't know what you think of the british and american it strikes on yemen for showing solidarity with the palestinians in that are a enforcing of an embargo. i mean, the word iran keeps being mentioned in the united states as part of political rhetoric, rhetoric all the time as it does in europe, increasingly. okay. let me quote you what the swedish for prime minister form just a call built. he said, maybe we should take seriously the idea that if we want to and what's going on in the red sea and review the shipping ways, either not interfered white rock of the bombing gen ed and the warrant officer. so this is someone from the, from the hall to that is obviously acknowledging a reality which is just staring us in the face who is been very open about why they're doing this. and i, i think sometimes when you take people at face value,

so yes, the idea is that you can distinguish between these 2 things. just get to see firing cause it if you want to re at least how to some degree, the region, this is not going well for the west. it's not doing well back and feel for each rep . the balance of forces is wrong, cause has the by of how to kill gotten so big it, but this is the display of strength when you're doing this as a display, we this way, you website your infantry. so you just bowman, ball the ball regionally. iran is not deployed directly feasible losses because only played a role up to a certain level time down. some is ready forces in the goals. so without those 2 major actors, you still have just, just real estate is really own gold. in terms of the political, legal, moral reputational jeopardy, that it is engaging. and you have this,

this successful who's the intervention to disrupt global trade. so it's not going well, maybe even in its own interest tubs, the, the west should be looking at this again. and this in a week when they would join to uranium chinese and russian navy patrols down the road here in the gulf of amman, the ukraine proxy, we're not going to plan, is the global side, the ones negotiations. would you mean how to advise the landscape? was backed by the you and the u. s. which means uh and i know you made the case for it that the china should have a central role, perhaps in some kind of peace negotiation i know about as didn't you negotiate his way in moscow and the other day. is it time now away from vehicle words that you were involved in for china and russia just step up to the plate because despite the cooling for as east by the wind security council and despite video and the arab street so called one thing, china and russia babs that come in like people on white horses to save at the

stopping and the survivors of the genocide they don't going to. but how can most go in virginia help? you're right next line up some of those docs as you just kind of help us do actually. so 1st of all, the nothing you know is not popular. the military operation is popular and i just speak the speaks to the fact that these republic have gotten used to infinity. and that's the ultimate culpability of these rails allies in getting us to this moment. because by nettle holding israel accountable, you have in the hands baking to extreme is a i do normalized everything that these read has done normalize out of pocket. i can do a nice thing to very smart for treating the government. so that's not a lot of to number 2, there's a whole piece of this, which i very much doubt will go into that. you mentioned in policy, the interest in truck policy. and you told me that the russians, it was the, there was a whole piece of bass, which is about the palace,

the body politic having basic, the collapse is radical. so that division, that's a classic divided mostly one would expect. but the palestinian factions and not managed to rise above that and of course. ready deal solid to recognize internationally because there's essentially become an adjunct of these radio occupation of the west and both and to not. so bring this back to what does it mean for the us monopoly on piece assets and those piece after it's our shot that that is the story of so good piece making in, in the last decade to decades. perhaps i think anyone who serious about wanting to get this to a place where the events of october 6th, when things were terrible for palestinians, october 7th, when things are terrible for his race. and every day, since anyone who wants to get beyond that needs to look at a different architecture, different way of doing that. i see about how to break the us and west and monopoly

. when the 3 talks with us, your did, you had us and then we stood russian federation coming out of the former soviet union is the co host. i think it would be sensible to think about the chinese role . i think it would be sensible to think about a lot of the global south, which isn't a thing, but some of the middle level powers. the part of that whether that seem denisia, south africa, brazil, those who is wrong won't be happy to see if the table, the palestinian should not be happy to see the back. it comes at the table. so i think not to break that monopoly. there is a role to play. i think i, a waste comes to russia in china. if they will, to play more actively in this, they're going to have to be on their own limitations. and the fact that they themselves continue to use this rhetoric, or let's have an international conference that's have 2 states they're gonna have to get beyond that because that does not accord with the reality today. i'm finally there is the, there is the region itself. there is the fact that there is an arrow seems aligned

to israel is occupation of the palestinians, which has been on a to muster, to generate a serious chunk. unable, i'm willing to restricted by its own geo politics, by the nature of, of the tone documents, structures on willy, on able to generate a real challenge. those countries that made those normalization deals with these route in the abraham, of course, have been an enabler as well. they've played that role obedience, they would say we have everybody who's a co petitioner just finally. obviously it was south africa and moved a lot of energy about it. activists that it would be south africa bringing the ice age a petition about is the i c. j also on trial here, the so called world court, it could have order to cease and desist order immediately which would have prevented alms trading from western european countries. time for i look at

his world court while we witnessed this genocide on the day by day hour by hour basis. i don't think so because i think what the provisional measures ordered by the court amounted to was the things that should be done. it was open to interpretation, which isn't good enough. they could have put their foot down as well, even if they put that slip down, it has to be implemented, right? it's not none of this, this. the point here option i think is none of this is self implemented. a security council resolution is itself implementing an icy j rolling, as we know from other instances, not busy. so implementing, they do not have the power to implement. it then depends on the other actors. what are they going to ignore? what the court said? because they called ignore the court could've said, but they know what the code of safety dro heads. 30 days report is ro provided a report that has not been made public. the south africans now go back with the requests, the provisional matches, but whatever the key needs,

it is up to those who claim they want to be in good standing with international legality to either a biased by those rulings, or as you suggest, to funds taken acts to begin to cheer shall international structures of global governance. and i'm the ability just to, to do anything by ignoring those buildings. and i think, well, well, the events and the response to those events over the last month. so showing us is that we do not have anything even approaching an international or to fit for purpose. and that's a really dangerous place to be. and i think whether it's israel in this moment right now will that global architecture. this is a dangerous time. you prefer to have a complex going on, and i agree with you. and i think the global south is looking at this and say, and it's interesting the americans in the west on to even trying anymore to pos

resolutions to win people over for the claims elsewhere in the world. because they have no standing was so tiny. larry, thank you. thank you much. i'm not set for the show. i'll continued condolences to those very by u. k. u. s. you on bombing in palestine 11 in yemen, syria and iraq. we'll be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch vital, a social media or if it's not sensitive in your country and had to have channel going underground tv and rumble, they'll come to what's new and old episodes are going undergrads. see so the russian states.