and the so big naval base, so yours is finding its way back to asia to start a consultation with china. that that was the whole plan of the pivot to asia strategies. and now i, i, china, on its side, you will play, you will not escalate military and the bubble we're going to, what we're going to see is china will use east coast guard like what they recently did over the waters of cayman islands, which is controlled by time one and a china will probably, um, reinforces coast guard patrols, you know, again, what's united states going to do is going to gonna end up brings us navy to call from chinese coast guard. i mean, that will be a major escalation. it's interesting to know that the actually the filipino public and also happy with the us side that that's because of the increasing us military presence in the philippines. why they unhappy with the situation? what philippines has a long colonial history under us occupation. and this,

this lot of the history is not exactly happy memories folder, filipinos, you know, us has been this history on us spaces in, in the philippines, in the clark air base and to pick air based rock crime prostitution. and this is one of the reason why the filipino people wanted to throw out the americans even 19 nineties in the 1st place. and now us is call me back. i mean a nice understandable song. the filipino citizen is not happy that spoken to us today. i called us all state contributes. i call jack, thank as many thanks to you for joining us. a on all the international coming your way. next is peace and about on the coastal team. on the, on the top of the i was more relate to see the

the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter live out. big talk empty words. how else to interpret the contradictory pronouncements coming out of europe and capitals on the subject of ukraine, bluster and threats are not a coherent policy. in fact, it is an indication of panic. meanwhile, remember, russia does not bluff. it acts the cross talking ukraine. i'm joined by my guest,

anthony webber in worthy. he is an independent political commentator in belgrade. we go to stephen gaiety. he is a research associate at bell grades, institute of european studies, and in the list when we cross alexander guerrero. he is an international legal analyst, right? gentleman cross black roles and the fact that means you can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate a steve and let me go to you 1st. and in belgrade as an outside observer, like i am of all of this going on in europe a who's speaking for whom and what is the message when it comes to ukraine? steven? that is a very good question because we see a lot of move walkers here who are sending different messages. and i think that is because they are in between the nato agenda, which is escalade story. and if the situation of ukraine and with there are really 3 industries, we're going better, they would probably even be more aggressive. and on the other side, they have their own people who have no idea why the,

how are their armies already involved when it comes to sending aid and perhaps people. and they are especially not happy about the possibility of direct a war between these respective countries. in the rush, so that is why the politicians are jumping on on this hot rocks and trying to somehow navigate between between the agenda that they all have and, and their own population. so that is why we're here. so let's say one thing or on the other as well. look around, this name is been mentioned already and say let me go to the only thing that chrome and, and napoleon have in common is they were both small man. other than that, there is no similarity here. why is the chrome mouse being off the way he does? remember at the beginning of all this, he was the dog now he's turning around and calling anyone that disagrees with them, a coward. what's the evolution of a crowd near as well he's,

he's bullied back to the topics on multi site because he's about signing for something that i see can piece. this is the role with a piece yet. encouraging. uh, the escalation is somehow encouraging piece, which is absolutely ridiculous, but some business, right. but not quite installed, some very job in the past and sorry to publish. not super clear. um, i will try to do the 5 but the mail that's a um are you got paper last night? so saturday, general site and know what the product needs is. munition, i'm not swear the quite to date such a rice should because they, the reality is throughout europe there's actually no unification. that's all that was speaking with different voices. you called the president trying to sign the united states when they're actually not. and we've, we've got

a situation here where they're going to have to face the fact that the client is actually be losing this conflict for some considerable time and how, how they actually going to deal with that. but the added problem is there's a loss of elections in the countries to see it. yeah. and the key points about all of this is not one the trunk trait. pop, i've been all so opinions. so i don't know if these policies against russia, i'm supporting the current governments in the price of any minds. i will set that up and that's very key. i'm going to talk about democracy. there's no democracy, there's always more money. oh, this huge expenditure public money without any overall so you for this is elizabeth i use it doesn't say he's and that's why didn't but take to the bar in the united

kingdom is spent 12000000000, sorry, fall, cho 1000000000, which is solely need to develop. i is, i'm at the same time the assumptions are getting frustrated, rebounded and the cases are the so type, huge rises and the costs of energy and the costs of living. and it's a disaster situation. i bought the pump, they can also allow me to have an opinion on this is a big uh, there's a lot said about the fact that people in russia doesn't have an opinion which allowed say go forward and then you try the uh, the, the media, some controlled, but you call another well you, you could have an opinion, it'll just be censored. okay. that's that's, that's a better method that alexandra, you know, we had the lot being president in the i refer to the baltic republics as the baltic chihuahuas on this program. he said he was quartered in saying russia must be destroyed. well, isn't that nice coming from a little country like lafayette,

and also we have other baltic republic saying that the u. k. should return conscription. so how do you react to that? it's nice that another country thinks another country should have conscription, what is lot, be a good to throw into the, into the mix here. i mean, how many you halls, full of weapons do they have alexander? it's easier for them to say this, the i kind of catching the wave and the reminded me that plastic case of the younger brother who tries to these and bully, everyone, because he knows that he has an older brother that can go cheap to his rescue in case of throw. so he seems to me that the 3 residents from the baltic states are on the heads of the argument. they behaving this way because they know that they have someone on their back that will try a police. not only to follow what they are saying, but at the same time to protect them and to, to confirm these words. however, lucky and not only has nothing but we have only a also see weeks ago that for example,

deadlock promised to send all the zeros artillery. they had a disappointing thing and then you realize it's only 14 hope beaches. so it's not much, but at least of the finally called yes, what they're trying to say is that we are giving whatever we have a speaking of description. for example, i speak for him knowing the situation he'd menu union and countries easier to say for the grading is to keep fighting until the last 2 brain. but when it comes up to the, to the situation where our own citizens should be deployed to the battle ropes of the battlefield, that's a whole different story. that's kind of solution. usually most the majority of the people do not support. we've unplugged to send our signs our grandchildren to the war, but we want the others to fight for us. because if you see even from france's festive price for the french president's words, what he says usually is we are going to be blowing as some of the lead gary in some way. are you great? and she wasn't, she was too vague. but at the same time,

she's not saying that she's going to confront the russian because she knows how unpopular such words would be understood by the print. so from what i understand alexander's i, it's 6768 percent of the french people. paul, do not want french soldiers going to ukraine. again, this is an elite agenda, you know, stephen, one of the things, you know, when i look at these european leaders, and i don't know me, i guess i'm a chrome, this has an inferior already complex, or he's competing with sergeant schultz or something like that. anyway, we don't need political science, we need psychologist, i suppose, to understand these people, but you know, demoralization rusher must not be allowed to win. what does that mean stephen? that means that they have a problem with the numbers and reading what is going on on the ground, but it is also a very dangerous path because these words can eventually turn it into into

moves which will cause escalation. the scenario, the possible scenario that i see is that uh at the beginning, you would have nato forces over to enter wesley and practically police a occupied to be quite blunt. uh, they would practically be occupation forces in ukraine in central advice, and you've trained perhaps you have to, but there the point of them being there a would be to release old, the police man, all the national guard and honor security forces all of ukraine to go to the me drive or in the east, and that is how i call a slow escalation and slow. and i think involvement that can actually become a lot of i was even steve. and these are you bring up an interesting point here. so if you are ukranian, cells are being sent to the meat grinder and there's some french guy sitting in a cafe in care. but what do you think he's gonna think my life is worth less than the french guys, steve?

and exactly, i think they are, they, i mean, this was the done from the beginning, but i think now they're starting to realize that on the front you see that the people are doing everything to try to not end up in the mean grinder. people are driving the local uh, maybe 3 authorities. they're trying to rescue themselves by running away on the border and they're being cost and then sense to meet the driver. i mean, this is the dire situation of man in ukraine is really something that should be uh, called a humanitarian catastrophe. but it is not. i mean, this is against, uh, uh, the, the, the war war is against, uh, any kind of up now let's say ethics of, of war. but that is exactly what we're seeing. well, i'm glad i'm glad you brought up the word ethics here. let me go to anthony now, i mean lindsey graham o pines again, you know,

he's complaining of the conscripting age is too high. they need to lower. we need to get these younger guys here. i mean it's just amazing to see how western politicians are willing to do using ukrainians as cannon fodder. and they always say it and know american troops. i mean, what a ghoulish way to approach things, anthony. yeah, yes, it's terrible. the loss of the psycho breast and read is not are actually has a name of that tree experience themselves. sites are quite happy for other people to type to try the rest, but not them are not very uh, sums endorses and the acreage, as i said, to try to find the situation because of the printing casualties. so call a 1400000 loops guide. wait and did this again, not shit and shit. and on to suddenly the rushing casualties about $288000.00 equivalent. so the situation is almost high level for the credit points

of view. and it's probably much like the tire and grace of not. so you drove the right people to start taking sees around. right. so the old mass, but there were a few die all people around. but it's concerning that, that some people, particularly in the united states, and indeed in the country who will be happy for the ukrainian bio population. but states are be whites out just states such as well i've, i've heard so the, it's a blood glass. less is what it is here, gentlemen. we're here, we're approaching a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on you can stay with our team. the

what is part of the employee would post good isn't the deepest view of us and bidding the word or is it something deeper, more complex might be present there? let's stop without pieces. let's go to the product. of the we are in north of cities in the caucasus mountains where beautiful people have been coming together to celebrate the ancient traditions since the beginning of time itself, where everything has a special symbolic meaning. i'm so i'm thomas, this is in my vision. and today we're discovering of the world of a such a culture, the welcome back across ok,

we're all things are considered. i'm peter roosevelt's remind you were discussing. you create the okay, let's go to alexander and live. and let's keep with this, this theme of a true, a nato troops being sent to central ukraine, western ukraine as an exemplary force or something like that. we train, wow, i don't know. um, but you know, is that is, is there a built in assumption on the part of nato think or is if that's not a contradiction in terms of that the russians wouldn't dare to touch those troops. that's a pretty big assumption to have. alexander. yes, decent the next step. of course, the russians, i can see the russians having to wait a lot, the dash to hit nato's troops wherever they are, regardless if they are in a so terry, thr, resorting, they are in your brain in west or eastern west and central,

whatever. but at the same time, we have just the focus and to the to see what's, what will be the mission of these nathan troops are, where are they going to be deployed as are only the french spots are obese, posted by the french? or are they going to be through you brad saucers, by nature? this will be a decisive factor in order to decide and understand how can the russians deal these forces at the same time? because we have seen so far that there are a lot of military stocks from the 2 countries be great. not only gatherings for meetings, not only for the technical purposes, but they have been there and many of them have been dying in the battlefield. the problem is to see if they are going to at tech, do bring it troops in certain areas, or if they are going to start any kind of look at the action in order to force, rush it to a deck, and then use russia all objections. first in 1st place,

but i don't see any kind of being fashion from nato countries or even by france alone. you start any kind of conflict of community type product dark was cameras, but, but i would render if they're in the battle field, they're in the battle space. what differences a make, i don't think, you know, if these forces, whatever they're doing with their aiding and abetting a military to kill russian soldiers. so they are the enemy as well. how could it be different? yes, the problem is if they publicly it means that they are on the ground, while at least through the present time, they have never admitted, but they worry the battle wrong. they weren't the battlefield, they were not always friends, they're not only german of police, but also from the united states. they have been to during confrontations. the problem is that people look funny. now that they are assuming you'd be totally, then they want to start to use these as being some kind of trigger in order to go to create any kind of tension, a possibility to be rushing. okay, talking about triggers. well then stephen, let's, let's think about it logically,

i know western leaders don't do this, okay? but, you know, then, you know, we have the article 5 come into into play here, okay? i mean, if, if they're going to go into the battle space, okay, and there is a exchange, there are casualties, then they're in a state of war. but then you may to cannot invoke the article 5 because they've already violated article one, that they would not go into a military conflict here. so i mean they're, they're shredding their own logic and their own law. go ahead, stephen. we're going into a philosophical discussion now because what nato has been doing for the last 2 years, if not much longer, is to get involved as much as possible into the war. but for the rest of the world, the thing that nato is not into work. so for his us treasury policy has made its coalition for munitions. and so they are gathering the gathered and deployed $800155.00 millimeters shelves from they, they claim they bought it in,

in the south korea and other countries and other nato countries are involved in this. however, they are pretending the digital committee to but that this is a some kind of coalition of the willing, remember that phrase from 2003 when bush a back to iraq. so it wasn't made. so it was called vision of the willing. so what they're doing now is exactly that needs was all right, well see what i can up the anti here, adelene a better bach. what 180 degrees better of oxy wants to have somehow german missiles are sold to the british so the british can send them to ukraine. i don't know what kind of food which can be raised by the weight, but it would see for some reason not the defense minister would be able to control coordinates. i'd be a, this is getting insane and somebody react to that. well, the it is inside the recalls are pretty insane. the, on the defense i took dry ground, stotts is likely to,

to get along with that. but there are consequences for the congress rate, which um, i'll get started, hopefully involved in helping a, a bison eco russian soldiers and in the u. k. do you guys just lost the major fishing agreement with brochure um, which is today, but it's the, it's the staple dots and many people in the united kingdom, official objects and go back out to see a scar or to increase in the price of fish in the united kingdom because that's the thing we're talking about. i think russia is actually being for moderates and it's a reaction to various european countries on the anthony when we did this on this fishery issue here. so the british public will be denied fish, but the russian public will be able to eat fish. yeah. how is that a sanction? well, that's the good. i'm sorry, good. well, well,

they've already found it again. see if i can get them the looks of the consequences of having such a policy because the, the due dates i can should certainly work. but if we go back to the subjects of people killed is only the b, 5900. the 62 on soldiers killed in, in the ukraine. a good proportion of visor in the united kingdom. and uh, it's been a bit of a tougher off how much longer of the bus is probably going to be denied the information because they're supposed to be you guys have delta dental of intelligence to help with the training to make sure the 5 ohms is all i try, but in reality that how things are right offensive operations. again, instruction forces. i'm not so now i'm not a rule on this thing,

not empowerment show pharmacy in the united kingdom. and she can talk to more like actions against russia. and already the united kingdom governments, maybe i'll take out the events all trucking a very fine lot with volt battery. well i, i suppose this is one of the applications of the rules based order that we keep hearing about. ok. you break all the rules because we want to control that determine what is order. this is ridiculous here. alexander, you, we have. speaker johnson in the united states is. 4 thing about a stand alone bill for more a ukraine. i thought he'd come to his senses, but he hasn't. of course. um, an interestingly enough for republican house control, there's going to give bite in the political, wind and election year. explain that to me here, but it's not going to make any difference. anyone that knows. i've listen to a lot of military experts, and this is just the way, okay, of course companies in the united states, they will of a benefit,

but this is not going to benefit ukraine. to be honest, i think that even speaker jonathan doesn't know what kind of a stand alone they tickets. will this be because he's proposal still presents very vague tires. we both know yet how is it even going to be submitted on the formal way. but i precinct abuse that she will such a boost or some kind of single and autonomous proposal disconnected from any parallel concessions that have to other political measures thought by democrats and republicans. alexander, it's been mentioned here, a new land lease. i don't even think the majority of congressmen even know what that term historical term is. how is that work? i mean, ukraine is, could it paid united states back after all of this? i mean, they, they either, they, they don't know anything about history or they're just finding a new way to live the people, alexander, it was kind of that, that, for example,

president former president trump this weekend and just call or that kind of alone, lowering least that this is simply just does not exist in practice, for example, even in the union, we have exactly the same aspect. we keep funding, we are going to fund your brain and you're going to be lowly, start to pay back up to 10 years within 10 years. so i, you know, knows, and everyone at the same time knows how will you brain going is going to pay for? well, i think there's, there's a, there's a way that no one's thought about as they should tax ukraine's oligarchy. because they are the ones that are making so much money off of this work. i mean, the, they should sign a personal, you know, loan, you know, they go, they're going to pay it back. of course, it's nonsense, that's not going to happen here. we're rapidly running out of time, steven. i think this is a, we're the kind of a turning point here. i think there's so much panic and desperation in the air that we have discussed on this program. um, where's that, what's the next step? where are we going? the one thing that the west is the only advantage again being desperate because of

both, instead of just to drink his victory speech that rush or does, it does not want a fake piece which will last for a year and a half or 2 years. so that the, uh, you know, uh, military industrial complex uh, in the western countries uh, gets uh ahead of the game so that they can send enough weapons to the front line. so russia was a political solution, and i think the political solution with the parents leads into was and with the current a government in ukraine or even ukraine as such, is possible. that is why i expect, uh, russia to secure as borders. i'm putting, again said that there should be a buffered so that the cities in, in russia are safe and secure. yeah. and there's, you know, do we have on this program? we have talked about this quite a bit. and my only concern is,

is that i want an end to this conflict immediately. okay. however, in russia does not want to be put into a position where ukraine, we arms for 5 years and they start all over again. that is the problem. that's the problem. keep go, go ahead. that is why west wanted the career scenario. the more i think creates north korea, north south korea situation in the middle of europe and the roster doesn't want that. it doesn't want to have a constant threat on its borders, but it wants to have a, a sustainable security architecture in european content. and it is, this is exactly what it was proposing some 1015 years ago, and what it was continuously proposing during the main main sc agreements and even until today. but they are not going to be a willing to go for another fake agreement, which will only buy time for a, for a 2nd. let's say punch that the russia i should uh,

should guess from the west. uh so that is why i think it will inflict as much damage as it can and it will probably uh solve this uh in military. yeah. so when it must in worth the security is guaranteed for all, i don't know how we do that, but that's how it must and or, oh this will happen again gentlemen. that's all the time we have a one, a think, my guessing weird thing. bell. great. and in lisbon, and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time, remember across cycles, the only one main thing is important for nonsense and internationally speaking to that is of nations. but thoughts are allowed to do anything, all the mazda races, and then you have the mind and agents who are the slaves. americans, rock obama and others have had

a concept of american exceptionalism. as the law exist, as long as it serves the american interest, if it doesn't, that doesn't exist by turning those russians. and so it is dangerous boy, a man that wants to take over the world. that was the culture of strategy. so some of the vehicle in your own english v i v, i not finished it. often. zip on and tablet block. nato said it's ours. we move east. the reason us, hey jim, it is dangerous. is it the law? the sovereignty of the countries? the exceptionalism that america uses and its international war planning is one of the greatest threats to the populations of different nations. if nature, what is founded, shareholders in the united states and elsewhere in large arms companies would lose millions of millions, or is business businesses good? and that is the reality of what we're facing,

which is fascist. the . the ukraine is low, $71000.00 troops and the stop of the did, and is compelled to throw a loss with the fight. as, according to the russian defense, vanessa. so they showing the last a you will be good to use 90 percent of the revenue from pros and russian assets as a new funding posts for the new crating and conflicts most could react with hodge and purchase because of the regional counseling ukraine on is the intimate nazi venture and gara top from the list of what the terms do. white walk space scans less the image of western need is sharing a not to collaborate to the canadian parliament lost in