so that is the official reaction from the white house. i'm sure we will hear more condolences, more condemnation of this act of terrorism. but that's not going to make these questions go away. kayla, thanks very much at bringing us the reaction from the whitehouse to today's at deadly offense in must go ortiz, caleb and life and live from new york. and just to recap, what is that occurring right now at media report? say they're over a $130.00 casualties with many fatalities. victims have been rushed to nearby hospitals. at least one explosion has reportedly been heard in the building and the roof could be seen a place 10 o'clock in moscow. hear that occurring at a run 3 hours ago or so. i think you saw there on the screen. our next guest marks the boat. the international refers on security on list who joins us live at.

no mark, good to see you. what's your reaction at to advance um, does this look like an act of terrorism? yeah, it is undoubtedly a active terrorism. what's more, it is a military or military style active tear and this was organized. this was plan um the gunman are heavily armed with assault rifles. uh, according some reports, body armor. uh and throwing grenades. they obviously had some type of explosive device or accelerate. they stormed into the crocus city hall. it's a combination shopping mall, concert hall aquarium. a big entertainment complex on the outskirts of moscow, there would have been very light rent a cop type of security at the entrance of some incredibly soft target. they open

fire from the reports. i point blank range on anyone who came within view. so their goal was to kill as many rush means as possible. this be invoke serious questions about the victory, all a level of russo phobia and russia hatred that has been stirred up by western governments and media over the last 2 years with b, e, a. acceptance of collective punishment of all russian. every where i, i think there are questions of how much this may play into this quite obviously this was some type of suicide mission. they cannot possibly have hoped to survive this just on the market. if i can, we're hearing reports that for

a suspects could have fled the scene. the police have been 5 with collection calls firing at people, but just on what you're seeing there, what are the chances be they may be captured if they are still alive, given the sheer amount of crowds and people fleeing the scene? a. yeah, i mean, i suppose it is possible that they could be taken alive if they surrender at some point, but there is very little possibility of them escaping from the country. in moscow, the russian national guard military units of already or rope reported on the scene, i am sure the f s, bay, the police. there will be an active, obviously, man hunt and probably a arms engagements with these people to bring them down. and then of course, an investigation will be conducted. there is no evidence at this

moment that i am aware of, of any connection with the conflict in ukraine. but that, of course, is the speculation that is on everyone's mind. and if we're going to speculate about the motives and the type of perpetrators, there is a russian neo nazi and at arcus group by the former russian duma member m. p. now ukrainian citizen, ili upon tomorrow, that has claimed credits for various acts of sabotage and assassinations. within russia, over the last 2 years, it is suspected that he has quite often simply served as cover for the cabra james military intelligence. but they are definitely connected with the neo nazi rush of

volunteer corps that are even at this moment, conducting still continuing border raids into bell gord, north of hark off. and they are deeply associated with carrillo, but not of military of intelligence, dirty tricks. i would not at all be surprised to discover that the perpetrators, the extreme is obviously, and uh, tomorrow i have spoken before about how his, the ranks of his disciples include both neo nazis and, and arcus. and he was quite open about that. and that is exactly the type of extreme is person that would have been required to carry out mass, a massacre, a tear operation like this. mark. just stay on the line if you would please, because uh, i witness cards have been coming into the program. and when they do,

we want to show them at let's take a look at the, the latest one. we've received the most of these 2. and so i need to ship these. i looked over to him discipline wise, but there were still people running floods with the army. so everyone was just sleeping outside of the building and metro's. they left the things in the building . oh cool, cause betty, you can see from, from outside of the house truck, a city, how is burning, we saw 2 dead bodies near the entrance to the other close to the, to the stupid category. so because we need to be doing id, do it at the, for the, for the guns. what, what we saw in the video was the right to the entrance is a security analyst mark. so the boat a is with a set live on the program. and mark,

just up by the actual operation that happens with the emergency services special forces. no, a part unclear entered the building around to half an hour ago. as they did shots at could apparently be heard whether or not it was the russian forces or the attackers themselves. what is the, the 1st thing they will try to, to accomplish in such a tax is a, to eliminate the terrorist immediately depth, perhaps to the, the people who remain in the building at what's your take on how this unfolds. and okay, so uh, in a situation like this, there will be multiple teams. uh, some will be uh, responsible for identifying and engaging with the gunmen with the perpetrators others. their priority will be to identify a wounded and people still trapped within the building of

obviously of their active fire fire units, as operating as well firefighting helicopters have been called out. i would suspect that there are a multiples of russian, a national guard police in the space, domestic intelligence and security agencies. there will obviously have to be a scene commander who will coordinate between all of these different type of, uh, military medical, uh, firefighting operations on scene and perimeter will have to be set up if they've already escaped from the immediate area. they will probably have to close down the traffic in sections of the city while they are hunting for them. and if

a number of them of already escaped once there is a clearing dawn of the building and making sure that there's no more active gunman . of course the priority will be on the injured and the people still trapped inside is burning and collapsing, building. and that's the thing is that it's happening inside a building. it's not on the street where people can sleep, you know, full of different directions. there's only a set amount of exits at there and to what extent, just finally does this attack resemble the moscow theatres, sage, nor dol stop the prompts and people's memories of the classic plan in, in paris it's just, it's a terrifying situation when you're trapped in, in a, in a building, you can't get, i people fired. we got to,

i just kind of imagine that mark. yeah, i mean there are a number of parallels to be made. most divides, you know, within live living memory. in early 2, thousands, there were a number of terror attacks in moscow by jihad extreme is including music, vide news, as well. uh so, um, concerts, uh public concerts. uh so uh, unfortunately most invites have a little bit of experience with this. although it has definitely been many years since we've seen. i don't. well, i don't think we've ever seen anything quite like this, but it is been many years since moscow has seen a terrorist incident at all. um unfortunately, um i, i did remark even to my wife at the time uh,

2 years ago that there was every possibility that we would see some type of neo nazi inspired suicide attacks and moscow. and possibly that is what we are seeing here. the mark, thank so much international affairs and security analyst marks about giving us some of his expertise the reaction to what is occurring on folding at today. okay. are corresponding donald hor, her has been at edging closer to the venue. he is there. as you can see now, don't i'm not fire at looks large and looks very much as if it is the priority or yeah, unit. and i mean, just over the past several moments we've seen this fire grow even larger and the smoke has basically, i don't know if you can see on your screen. but from here it's very visible that the smoke has basically turned into a tornado of flame,

where you could see embers coming off from the building and fire just rising into the sky. there's even been deployed helicopters, bringing buckets of water that we saw earlier to help put out the fire from the air . this obviously tons of firefighters working on the scene over 50 per gauge of emergency services. workers had been deployed here, both from mosque our region, as well as from moscow city as well. and we've got some reports that the around 100 people that were trapped in the basement level of this building have been since evacuated by the firefighters. we've got a lot of different reports, for example, the special forces. there's a report that the special forces have been deployed there. um, and we've also unfortunately got reports of a hire, a casualty numbers as well then then uh was originally reported according to media reports. they say that there's over so far, $130.00 confirmed casualties. many being rushed to nearby hospitals. at

least one explosion was reported being heard in the building and, and the role. so i witness reports earlier on from, from people obviously who suffered through this. what's now being called a terrorist attack, according to russia's investigative committee, that they had heard explosions as well. that's likely to be the cause of the fire along side. the shooting that took place where at least 5 masked men with assault rifles opened, fired on this musical concert that was taking place in this hall. apparently, all of basically all of the seats were, were taken all of the tickets were sold. and this area where this took place uh, according to reports, can hold up to 6000 people. so this is a play square, tons and tons of civilians were gathered, hoping to have a fun night at a musical concert. and it ended with this. as you can see behind me an inferno smoke. as far as the, i can see, an emergency services trying to get ahold of the situation. i don't know if you can

hear behind me right now, but that is a helicopter in the sky. likely bringing another bucket of water to try and tackle the flames that are now. i mean, the embers are coming on to the ground. i hope i hope another fire doesn't start on the bottom floor, but it's just an absolutely crazy scene. in terms of other reports, we have uh, moscow mayor said, uh so bad. and he said that a, a sports activities over the weekend are going to be cancelled as a result of this terrorist attack. and, you know, one of the initial indications that this likely wasn't a terrorist attack was the fact that it's just about a week or week and a half ago, the american embassy and british embassies in, in, in moscow they had said they've warned citizens of the u. k and the united states that there was likely to be an imminent terrorist attack in moscow and that they should leave the country. so this begs the question, if this terrorist attack was an act of state sponsored terrorism from western

governments, i mean, we have to have some, some sort of reaction from the, by the ministration. they said that they, they don't have didn't have any information of any sort of terrorist attacks going to happen in las kyle, but it definitely is a very strange situation. given that the embassy is themselves had warned their citizens that a terrorist attack was going to take place. so something's not adding up here. and the result, as you can see behind me is destruction flames smoke. as far as the i can see, i'm over a 100 casualties, so far more likely many more as the actual numbers continue to be confirmed by the authorities. yeah, and just as you're speaking don't the rest of the authorities have indeed confirmed that 40 people are at dead that so that was what we had feared that that number would rise. these we had been hearing a run that doesn't for, for another run to now or another that has risen to 40. done thanks very much for not or to correspond done, quarter. we're going to em,

brick in to at some of the was done was, was leading us. there are the issues behind with her next gas than just the moment at. but 1st, let us look at the, just some of the video which has been coming into his quite incredible this eye witness footage of people at leaving the area quite calmly. and in this, at, at the footage. because they're trying to get away from the roof. they went to the basement and they were rescued, as we heard at as well. that okay, let us try to go now to our next guest who is at staffing diets from the institute of european studies and fell a great to continue our reaction to that one is being occurring today in moscow as stepan. thank you very much for your time today. the white house, if we can just start has said quote, it sees no signs that ukraine or ukrainians were involved in this terrorist attack

. in moscow, the foreign ministry spokesman and russia has off, how can conclusions you reach? so quickly, why do you think us officials help being so hasty to give you their take on who are indeed who was not behind the attack? hi andy, this is a very strange statements because how can they possibly know that somebody is not responsible? immediately after the attack uh, at the same time, it was the us that warranted song citizens some week week and a half ago all possible terrorist attacks and that us citizens should avoid large gatherings. this comes in a very, uh, especially moments. uh, i would say uh, there was a huge uh, russian attack against the targets uh in the front

line. and uh, possibly there were some natal casualties because they sold comes after my crowns. threats that's from france will uh, get through bolt into the war, and that's possibly underneath the countries are going to deploy their forces. why don't they have the point forces and what if something happened to that i'm already, uh, so we can spike, we can think that maybe the, the sleeper cells were awakened to, to commit this horrific attack. also another interesting, i'd say going instead of this is that the, this, the tech comes on the day of the, even the middle of the beginning actually of the orthodox christian, a great lens. and the, on the day of the 40 semester markers, which is really roger symbolic,

especially know we're having in mind that are actually the largest doors that ex christian country. and that the symbolism is, of course, very important. and in uh, in the northwest or shy it is so i think that, uh uh, we should to think about all the possible let's say, causes of this horrific, cowardly attack that took place in moscow. and that the russian government should uh, i think with a uh, with a cold mind about, uh, who were the possible. um, that's the only perpetrators but people who are behind the attack, which is even more important. stephanie, as, thanks very much, just stay on the line for for a moment. if you well, because we've been hearing from people who are asked the concert at giving at their

eye witness cards. let's look at one of them was about to go to this rock show because i knew that my auntie and her family, my cousin and my uncle went there. so i just decided to, to join them there. i thought it would be fun thing to do friday night, but i was going there up for a work day. so i was about to be late. the show was supposed to start at 8 pm, and i think i was at the metro station that is the nearest one to this, a counselor told my day, 5 minutes before 8 o'clock. and i was just going through the hallway from the metro station to the on, to the concert hole. and then when i was about to go down the staircase to the metal, to take the tech to this area where all the security people usually are. you know,

uh, making sure the people are not bringing in anything prohibited. so i, i heard some, some noises. so quieted leave shots. so you could predict nice damage shots, i guess. and i saw the crowd of people just running up the stairs. running up the escalators and they were not fanning kicking, actually, they were saying we're shouting that there is a shooting going on that it's a terrorist attack, but it seems pretty, you know, pretty calm, given the situation. so whenever people were falling down, the people who were brining thanks to them, we were helping them up and so on and so forth. so everything clear, pretty, pretty calm, given the situation again. and then i just started walking back and i was calling my cousin and i knew they were inside there and they were inside the whole were all

the shooting took place. i just wanted to make sure that they were a k and they were on the role. so of course uh well, but freight obviously scared horrified and they were trying to get out of there. but um they heard the shots, they from what they told later they heard someone falling. i don't know, they did not know. was it due to the fact that they were shot they weren't pointed or just because the traits in cell and they made out of the concert held. they went to a coffee place nearby where i met them also. and basically this is it. uh, i did not see anything. i just heard shots and then over the opposite that i watched all those videos on telegram online and then i understood what sometimes

matt think truly took place, which is truly, truly horrible. but they're fine. a little bit shocked, obviously. but on aren't on skates, so everything ever thing thing got is, is okay with us. and so these are live images we're seeing and screen now from north west at moscow just to let to know what the authorities are saying. the fire is reportedly spreading rapidly that broke out after this mass shooting across the venue. as you can see at the flames, they're a taryn called him, a flock, smoke open flames above the building. at least one firefighter how the comforter has been deployed to the scene to help put out the blaze. well, at just before we went to that, i witnessed the code we were speaking to pressure up the institute of european studies in belgrade staffing at guy edge let's say good stuff. and bach on the

program and very interesting of kind of, of what you're saying. and i bought her conclusions could be which so fast by the us thing that you created was not involved. we also know that the u. k. on us embassies, earlier this month warned about the threat of attacks during large gatherings in moscow at russian officials said if they had any intelligence about threats and they should share it with the russian comforter parts. how likely is it that these warnings on today's tragic offense in your view? we're looking the salt highlights because if they had some information, they should have shared this information regardless of the facilities. and i'd say very harsh words that were exchanged in the last couple of years or even longer and between the countries. i mean, and of the same time, uh,

we should not take all of the equation. the fact that as we are speaking, uh, a large scale attack is happening against the build. uh, from the uh, inquiry and forces. so, uh, if, uh these events are not connected. why is brands is degrading not showing ends there. let's say the public masters in, in, in natal. why are they not showing any kind of silly diety and maybe putting a policy on, on such effects at this very hour. so, um, i think that there is a lot of questions that russia should be raising. and i think that this is a very, very dangerous moment. globally, a very as color 3 moments. it comes to the time when we hear words that escalation from benjamin netanyahu saying that so what i would do united states as they will

attack raphael enter a. so the several spots are on fire. and i think that this, this terrorist attack a is a game changer, a game changer say staff and guides professor at the institute of european studies in belgrade stuff. and thanks so much for your take on taking the call at so quickly after this occurred. as we have been hearing at from, or some others has come in from the investigative committee we, we knew earlier that at the a month of fatalities had risen. let's see what the investigative committee had to say on the focus of what it says, 3 of them. so i'm sorry to include the city, police, go up them slips the medium slips and what can we do that? i see the deal with puppies and completes to peter jackson today is for the

criminal case. so was, it'll show up on the russian legislation. so, tara attacked the investigative team from the central to me to have the investigative committee is on the scene. okay, well we have be now getting live pictures rights are rights at this deadly and terrible events. and you can just see the scale of that fire that what firefighters are dealing with. and it's been spreading from the concert venue. we know immediately after the shooting to other parts of that's a huge crocus city side. but for now, while we're waiting for information on whether or not anybody else has invest inside at, let's welcome a number of guess onto the program at we have got

a former c, i, a analyst on ceo of virg associates and laurie johnson and veteran war zone. correspondent and political a list, elijah mcneil at you're both very welcome at laurie. can we begin with you? we're just hearing from the un secretary general's office saying that he was quotes . sab moved by reports of the shooting. the white heis earlier saying that it's a tragic terrorist that a vend but ukraine are you creating ins were not involved in terms of the introduction response so far what, what is your take? oh yeah that's, that's lots of people. okay. lot, i used to do this for a living, what i was at the state department in the office of counter terrorism. so number one, we have to go back to mar 7 when both united states and united kingdom issue warnings, their embassies and moscow, to the respective citizens, to be prepared for a terrorist attack within the next 2448 hours. those kinds of warnings are

not issued unless you have some specific intelligence that is, consider those 2 things, specific and credible. normally, if you've got really solid information, you don't go public, you go to, in this case, should have gone to the most scale authorities alerted them so that they could then take action to prevent this. but instead, it appears that that's not what happened in this case, but this was part of an organized psychological operation on the part of the west. and i say that because maria is a colored rover at the time. she stated very clearly that if there was a terrorist attack to occur, it would definitely imply that the west was involved. so now if, if she and the and president putin and the foreign ministry had been advised by the

west, what the specific details were. all fixed, i don't think she would have said something like that. so what, what we're, what we're left with is the west people in washington, people in london, clearly knew something was afoot. and apparently they did not share the specifics with the russians. and so as this investigation goes, and i think uh your, your previous speaker, the professor is cool. that is the assuming investigation. it's established that the people who carry this out were enabled in any way facilitated in any way by the west. this is going to rush, represent a dramatic escalation in this war because all ready, the west has been implicated. and what would amount to terrorist attacks in places like god going on low to brussels now, elijah, you're welcome onto the program. we've just had the.