international the adoption or can see welcome back to going underground rule got single around the world from the u. a. it's been a week since president loving me. a person was re elected by the russian people in a landslide victory. but that hasn't stopped us. president biden, and his washington proxy nations in nature continued to own a zalinski and kia of who was outward elections in ukraine. but i knew that the zalinski has made peace talks illegal. and then last week, often you can't wanting some food in russia, claim that surveillance and revealed president macro plans to deploy 2000 french

soldiers to kill russians. in addition to new mobile u. k. troops already and ukraine revealed and intercepted german military phone. cool. they probably don't remember that it was 41 years ago this month. the u. s. president ronald reagan who successfully helped to destroy the us, i saw proposes never implemented style was space based messiah system. someone who will is reagans assistant secretary of defense, who in post, administered about 70 percent of the us defense budget. dr. larry cool up is now senior fellow at the center for american progress and he joins me now from washington dc. thank you so much, doctor called for coming on. so boots in congratulated 87 percent of the vote congratulated by china india, the whole of the global south international community. i mean, given the us, the think tanks even can see that version is kaley popular in russia. in your experience during the reagan administration, could you ever imagine that there be no communication, seemingly,

between blinking and his counterpart between biden and coaching? because that's what they're saying right now. now, particularly towards the end of the reagan administration, all i should say in the 2nd, uh, 2nd time he was visiting with, with the, with the, with the russians. we had contact with the russians on a lot of bar areas and particularly when reagan develop, what we call star was on the strategic defense initiative. a lot of us knew that it was high, you know, it was very, very different call strategically for that to happen. or conceptually, but the russians believed that the russians believe that if we work to do that and spend this type of money, that there must be something something to it, even though most of the experts you know, felt it was pull whether or not it was practically impossible, clearly how you won the cold,

cold war. you in new york team there in dc. but how dangerous is it that the telephone, the red telephone isn't being used given. we have explicit uh from the kremlin, uh, at least the context of nuclear weapons being invoked. and um, i mean, nuclear weapons clearly being invoked in this region in the middle east by is riley cabinet ministers. but why do you think that hasn't been any high level contact given it's so obvious that uh, no, even conventional hypersonic miss i'll use the nuclear use is now a possibility in western europe. well, you've got 2 reasons. one trump got out of kind of some of the arrangements that we had made with the, with the russians. and then of course, once this war started, the russians cut off all of these talks because we were 80 ukraine. i think that, that really no, i don't think it was russia cutting off the tool cuz they've been pretty expensive

. so is this like a lever over the foreign ministry in russia? it's the americans that are refusing to look as well. but basically when the russians and they to ukraine, they basically we felt we could not continue dealing with them to all the other issues. because this was so important. and the russian didn't object you know, to, uh, you know, the cutting off the talks. in fact, if you look at the speech that put you gave on february at the end of february, they're about nuclear weapons. he talked all about possibly using the tactical nuclear one. this is an obvious, i mean, from you with your perspective over many decades. and it was clear, lee mentioned the other day on going underground. actually, i remember the foreign policy for them. indeed, most grossing say this was a surprise in russia with the way the united states is sending in billions of

dollars. weapons, knowing that pressure has nuclear weapons. this is a kind of different stage in the, in the evolution of mutually assured destruction. well, i say to our, obviously, our dealings with russia all during the cold war. we could basically, for example, in the korean war, they were back in north korea. we were obviously backing out of south korea in vietnam. they were backing the north vietnam base and we're back in south nice. but we still were unable to deal with nuclear weapons separately. and there was communication between the in dc. yeah, i and basically if you look at the cuban missile crisis, you know, once that happen, then we, you know, we really, uh, you know, when full speed ahead. but the talks recognizing how close we came to a, a nuclear war. that was my 1st year in the navy. we all thought it was over. you

know, we just thought that that was going to be yet at. but the fact of the matter is we're able to avoid that, and i'm confident that at some point we can resolve this horrible situation in ukraine satisfactorily. we'll get back to the talks because remember, new start doesn't expire until 2025. so we have a couple, we have a, a couple of years to do it. i know you're measuring start negotiations and they're very important. but you know, i am british and there exist this western european part of the world that that could be, that could be the battlefield. across the united states, a safer cause rusher is safe. the war of attrition continues. boucher is fine with that. as it may be, approaches a desk, but if there are french soldiers there, i mean there are british soldiers there already, according to that phone call. you, you, i mean, surely there is the possibility that of nuclear strikes invest in europe. but in

this limited field, you mentioned tactical nuclear weapons that were raised by letting me put it. well, we have folks in europe as well. i mean, you know, we've got a, yeah, tens of thousands of troops and yeah, but you're not german either. states isn't going to use a nuclear weapon in a conflict against russia when that conflict is going on in west, in your visit. because the united states will be destroyed. well i, i get you got strategic and you've got tactical nuclear weapons. we have our nuclear weapons in europe that we could use if we had to. but i think the real che, here, i sorry to stop here. let me just explain that you have nuclear weapons around stain a base in germany. why would, why oh no, that's over ukraine. would the united states risk be to the mass killing of every american over ukraine as well? basically there's always a risk,

but i think we need to convey to the russians that even if they use so called tactical nuclear weapons in europe, there's going to be a response and we would be willing to take the risk you talk about. because if they do that, then we don't respond. oh, and you think the american people, the full of the yeah, i basically we don't talk about nuclear weapons a more. i mean, what happens all during the cold war that was always brought incentives and the congregation kids getting onto their desks in school and at ever to like, we just don't think about it much anymore. and i think if you said to people in the next election, are you for or against new star, i don't think people would really focus on it. and that's rather unfortunate because we thought with a strategic defense initiative and the collapse of the soviet union, we have put that era behind us. but another development here that's important as china is developing nuclear weapons. so if you're going to go back to arms control

negotiated. yeah, i'm not so happy to hear by the arms control here. i'm talking about the immune and to use of weapons of mass destruction on this scale because of jo biden's policy in key about supporting zalinski who is made illegal, the idea or a peace negotiations as a law and call as well. they basically, i think you've got 2 things. one is the public in terms of what so lensky is saying, the other is private. you've got bill barnes who is the director of the c. i a used to be in bosses or to russia, and i'm sure he's keeping the dialogue open. we wouldn't say it. but on the other hand, i think it's important to keep in mind that we still have to charge the russians got to know if they use them, we're going to respond to but the x ray, and i mean, i mean i can see why trump is writing high in the opinion polls, because clearly the american people, i mean, it must be your hunch that the american people would not want them all to die. all

hundreds of millions of americans want to die to support. a lot of them is a lensky mt. have i mean that is not what americans want, that's may be why there's a boarding trump against by well, the, basically, the majority of people support what we're doing in ukraine and support the fight against the russians. not every body. and we've always said diversity in our country going back to, you know, go back and look at the 1952 election between eisenhower and cast. and you go back and you take a look. we have had these things. so that is not anything that's new. we very rarely get a 100 percent of people who agree on everything possible such a diverse country. but i think the majority are in favor of letting people know that if you should be foolish enough to use nuclear weapons, we will respond. well then,

why does joe biden to have to be so clear that no one us soldier will be fighting prison lensky on the ground and ukraine is it keeps reiterating as well. basically, i think he's saying that the cause of the fact we don't need that if we can provide the aid. i mean, the russians thought they were going to win that war in a week. i was in mosque out in december of 2021. and i couldn't believe what though, the russians, they were getting ready to invade. and one of the points i made to them, we had used to have this nate on russia dialogue of dealt with nuclear weapons that i had lots of contacts in russia. i thought they would have an insurgency, even if they went in, i didn't realize they would get so much less than no support right away. and i think that dumpster found that the russians that we were able to get, not just the united states, but most of natal, we've expanded natal. i mean, that's already been a last for the russia. sorry. what i mean,

the russia has more nuclear weapons in any other country in the world. the exposure nato doesn't alter the fact that all of those companies can be wiped out in a matter of 30 minutes and isn't a surprise here. they're probably some dumbfounded russians that how strong the russian economy has become and how the alliances and deals with the global south it's support. so i mean, rush has been supported economically created by china or india, the entire global side against these nature, countries that you mentioned, the minority of the world as well, of course, say all but the fact of the matter is to deterrence still exists. united states has embark on a modernization of all 3 legs of it's nuclear triad. and basically it's gonna be much more capable over the next decade than it is right now in terms of being able to use nuclear weapons. if heaven forbid it should come to that. so we're not supposed to talk a lot,

but we are made. nuclear also is going to be much better than his because he doesn't have the money to do what he needs to do given the russian economy. so for that recall, i'll stop you that more from the former us assistant secretary defense after this break. the what is part of the is it that the employee would post that isn't the defense you of us and bidding the word or is it something deep but more complex might be present there? let's stop without cases. let's go out of the welcome back to going on the right. now i'm still here with

senior fellow at the center for american progress, informal us as it's in defense extra. dr. larry called, oh, okay, cool. we were talking about, uh, the advance and new $2000.00 in the united states. prepare it over the next decade . uh, giving you that, you know, it's gonna have to be sooner than that. if you hear voices uh, even in the policy, think tanks of uh, of moscow. um, do you think in this selection? yeah, joe biden is clearly willing to pursue the $60000000000.00 which congress has been holding up to point to that excuse account. he's clearly continuing in the south china sea with china is supporting the bombing of, uh, syria and iraq because of the gaza genocide. he's bombing human as we speak. he's continuing what's happening in haiti off to president obama are over through the government there. and he's fighting the underground, who knows,

in west africa with molly and book, you know, fast. so how, how many wars is he going to create in the election? we how, what is this defense post here? and can you understand why trump in every riley talks about peace rather than wars the future? well, i certainly can understand what buying district is doing. first of all, the priority he's giving in the money he spends in our defense budget, which is close to what trillion dollars you've oppose it in the past, actually just uh, andrew, up there, the amount the amount we spend annually on the on national security is a about a trillion dollars now the direction we're going and basically the main setting of the normal, all the defense budget add basically is to deal with china. these other things that were up to you talked about that we're spending on that comes over and

above the regular budget, the $60000000000.00 will not come out of the normal defense budget. the all will the 40000000000 that's, you know, targeted for, for israel. we have forces deployed in the middle east, we've had them in europe and the whole situation in haiti, we just sent the maurice back there to project people are in the of the see. our problem is going to be dealing with the haitian refugees that are going to try and come by boat to the united states. and some of the southern governors are not happy about that. but by and large, if you take a look at the percentage of the gross domestic product, ged paid that goes to the punches about 3 percent during the cold war was 6 percent . and as a result of what to this done, the europeans have finally met, the 2 percent of ged paid that trump used to say was a reason for us to adopt supporting nato costs. they weren't meeting and well,

they're reading it now. okay, so you mentioned there with china or preparing for something with china. i mean, the 40000000 americans kind of eat tonight without federal aid as part of your snap food stamp program. do you think ordinary americans want to prepare for a war with china? which china are always denies, it has no intention of having a war with the united states. is the game up on all of this? i mean, i'm speaking to you from the middle east where clearly the rules based order so beloved as a phrase by jake sullivan. national security advisor and add to the blinking that the 2nd is that it's a, it's out the window because the united states as being back in genocide in the middle east. no one trusts the united states has anything to do with rules based order of un resolutions or anything else. you think of all of this is mounting towards the idea of some sort of idea of retrenchment and caring about ordinary

americans. rather than this rule preparedness for countries of denver said that they wanted more of a before with the united states. so i guess if you take a look and you compare it now to the cold war in terms of what we spend on defense, the percentage of g d, p or gross domestic product is less the port balls defense budget for fiscal year 2025, which starts out this discount comic september is not even a real increase. it's a one percent increase, which is not enough to keep pace with inflation because that's a deal that buys made was former speaker mccarthy. basically right before he got to have voted out of bought out of office. so it's not a question that they say during the cold war, when we were spending more than half of our tire federal budget and a much larger percentage of ged pig on defense. there are many people in the united states, we've always had them who don't think we ought to be involved in

a lot of books are in the conflicts, but they not are majority. and if you take a look, for example, the war i was in vietnam, people supported that until they realized we had no strategy for where they. and they're just like a play on his gun more recently. and it's a huge one. doesn't even need to go that, that far back for that. so you're just saying that the as regards the hold up there has been for the 60000000000 to the landscape, which is cause patrick in western europe. that was more to do with trump full ethics rather than a belief in congress and the wider american public that you've lost this war. this whole ukraine proxy war of the dead bodies of hundreds of thousands. that's a 1000000 dead ukrainians has been just another disaster of to libya. iraq, syria, i've gotten this done. vietnam allow cambodia and i don't know whether i've

remembered the move. well, again, you've got to go back and say, despite all of our mistakes, and we certainly have made them like any other. com and we won the cold war, we prevail. now the russians obviously have changed ever since reagan and gorbachev . never, they were going to get rid of all nuclear weapons. we wouldn't support and all of the things you talked about americans, we don't have a draft anymore. so americans are not forced to serve. if they don't law, and i think by these policies have been very true to keep things from getting out of hand where they proved environmentally regarding the accounts. and of course, by now, avowedly unlike during those times, saying it's about military keynesian isn't. is all even so much about ukraine. actually, ukraine is just by the, by, it's about a jobs in the united states, the defense spending, we had trucks, many of the infamous pin to getting the best employee on this program. people watch it on rumble about the waste of money that you've written about yourself. so,

so this is actually about jobs in the united states, and biden is being prudent. but what about west and your of i keep coming back to this west in your face is incredible instability. it's an economic crisis. germany is in recession. we know, but the north stream pipeline is just to enter one us atrocity. you're going to see more hush, the great journalist to expose my life. what about western europe? russia in the united states might be fine. the united states might be under the bad military keynesian isn't great from all of these military items making jobs. but what about wisdom? you are, i think western europe is doing much better now than they did before the russians invited, in terms of their cohesion with each other. after all, could you have the french in the united kingdom says a drugs are in there. they are increasing their desire. i don't remember,

but i got i got to enjoy of that because i have some of the, you know, i mean all of sholtes in germany, 73 percent, one insect macro or 71 percent of these are the latest opinion bulls. one him out of office. you in a store of norway, one him a 71 percent soon act of britain. 66 percent. when him a router fall and 65 percent millennium, a austria, now a 63 percent went him a very good, you know, i live nothing is gone already. of course is in sweden, 55 percent, one and then they're all unpopular. the countries are in the economic turmoil. the numbers are poverty, the inequality rising as they've self sanction themselves outside the world economy, which is, as we can look at the russian statistics improving of, beyond the, beyond any russian expectation baths, as the rest of the world improves western europe as in prices. and it's giving rise to social movements clearly that oppose washington policy and do not want any

opinion more if is the landscape well. but basically i would disagree with you, i think, yes, you know, i'm proud of the people of your a bids on me. i guess i'm going to talk about the people in your they obviously are unhappy with their government over a lot of things. but you gotta remember, you gotta go back to the cold. but the impact that cold would had on the global economy was horrible. and basically the russians, who was russia doing so well as well? she is not doing so well. okay. in terms of the, basically what they're able to do in terms of provide education for their people to one us seem to find that and our dress, i believe every yeah, even the economist, the usual reverse barometer is usually i think every, every publication the world recognizes the russian economy is done well out of this war, the russian to go and they have saying it's, they're saying it's military keynesian isn't one of the russians the, the russian economies doing so well, the war economy. but of course, the,

the russian government says it's because more generally the alliances, they made through bricks and the alliances of this new world world with china. well, i, i get, and i disagree with you, there's doing well in the sense of the spending on the military and they're doing that. but they're having to get, you know, criminals to go fight this war and you pray and they're not getting the russian people with the rush of people were so satisfied they be voluntary to deal with what potent status is, you know, an existential law. no. show a base says we have other than us propaganda or outlets for the has a big they, they're heavy. they get to criminals to fight the war and isn't the war. i mean, you're in the pen to good. can you don't see this is a war of attrition. they've taken that side of ukraine. well, they have to do is wait it out. and if what you're saying is right about the russian economy, why was put in elected it this land slide,

you must admit boots and is more popular in russia than any european leaders in western europe. that's a fun job. i've been in the united states, or i would disagree with that the potent was all confident. why do they have the volley til, okay, and if you take a look at the, the only water p had stuff out build the vinyl on the, on the had 5 percent of the vote in any west student polling of a rush. or you didn't need to him killed any if he as west and the media claims he did have him guilty was not going to win the election. and just on that particular point, you make the you saying that joe biden is more popular in the united states right now. the vladimir putin is in russia. i would say yes. if you've got to is a real of what peer basically it will basically be looking at is a test which uses the german base pulling. but we look at every polling from i'm talking about western polling. i'm gonna talk about russian criminal and propaganda

ones. you think biden is more popular in the united states and put in is in russia . we're realistically sure. but basically important to us, so popular one of the doctors let and involved a run against him and let him in a previous denied any involvement in the novell. me who i say the just like of on speaking the most them country. and we have, anyone can look on the on line to see nevada and the thing, the extermination of muslims was, is agenda. so it'd be careful about talking about novelle and the extreme right wing, the nationalist who supported the occupation of prime. yeah. that i thought you oppose. let me get onto the trump. what happens in a trump presidency? is the front runner to win in november. what do you expect to trump to do? we said repeatedly to victor, a little bit of hungry in my log or the other day that he and all funding for the proxy war through ukraine as well. again, i think he will try,

but he will also try and get out of nato. but the congress has passed the law, say he can't get out of nato without them permission. and basically, if you take a lot, trump will talk a good game. okay, but it's going to be very hard for him to, to do things. is that the crowd of the president truly is allowed to do to see if he's running america to the light as well. so the, the great thing about our system is we have checks and balances as well as basically by just finding out now with the warranty. you include a to ukraine and israel, but if you take a walk to work trunk did what, he was an officer, they went to north korea and basically trying to get them to get rid of their nuclear weapons and talked about he increased the band spending dramatically during his time and office we reversed kind of the post cold war down to earn what he he came in. so again,

it's hard to tell what trump is going to do because he talks more than, you know, he, he does, and not many cases. i don't think it would be good for the united states or the world for him to come in in terms of things with there were trying to do to be interesting to see what he does in the middle east. we're trying to stop the civilian casualties in our discussions with that yahoo! but drunk doesn't seem to be concerned about those things. don't forget, he got out of the nuclear deal with a rad that started them, you know, for both them into doing things. so, you know, this whole idea or from comes added things about to change dramatically in foreign policy. now, i don't, i don't think so. no jewelry going. thank you. okay, thanks for having that. that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to the survivors of us. you okay, you nation. i'm kidding in guys. i will be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch with

a lot social media. if it's all the sensors and your country and had to our channel going on the ground to be on rumble, they'll come and watch new and old episodes of going underground. so you send the look forward to talking to you all or that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings except we're so shorter is that conflict with the 1st law show your mind, anticipation. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to create a trust rather than fit the various jobs. i mean with the artificial intelligence, we have somebody with him in the a robot must protect his phone. existence was on

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