you can tell it that is also become a challenge for us to best of luck. a someone who offers prophecies do we have enough training sessions for patients when we create one for our patients? do we make sure it can be used in their daily lives because the struggle for disabled people in indonesia is real? not to mention the card out. for example, as we capital sweetie, ability, jack is still far away from being disabled from late. but what the civil attic offers might change the game as he has continued to tackle new challenges in his life. he hopes that more disabled people in media will be willing to join future competitions, not just 2 in a trophy by to win back their life. as well, thanks for your time today. i do hope you're having a relaxing easter sunday. we'll be back again in 30 minutes to bring table of the late as well seems fussing up the

the welcome to was the part from a special military operation to a state of war. the kremlin definition of crystal, it is on the russian ukrainian border, shifted starkly this past week. following a glory attack on concert goers outside moscow is this which in the rest of eric likely to be followed by change in military tactics. to discuss that, i'm now joined by demetria training and research professor of the higher school of economics in moscow and a member of russia's foreign and defense policy council. mr. training,

it's always an exquisitely pleasure, intellectual pleasure to talk to thank you very much for your time. thank you for having that sign up. now sit out this last 2 years. you've written a lot about sierra v use and regulatory function of fear in international relations. for example, how would me encourage diligence, a risk calculation and healthy, self restrain. but here we are faced with a different kind of fear. 3rd, to be precise, but it's also at some level of russia now it aims at certain behavioral uh, outcome. and i want to start by asking you, what do you think are the motives behind this attack? well, i think we are the process of understanding this a dog. they think that the a lot of uh, of evidence sofa suggests that the fact was a,

uh, uh, re keying. uh, that's a psychological havoc in russia. essentially sending the message to the russian people that the best appointment may have long the election. and yeah, he can not fully guarantee security to russian citizens even in the capital of the country. i think that is uh, one of the most important uh, motives for you. but once they find it, like i think that wasn't put. another thing is that the attack was perpetrated by the people coming from uh, from the director stand and uh those who are playing their truck. oh, probably most probably a wanted to um, western relations in domestic relations within russian. you would remember

a few months back uh, there was an attempt to stoke the extensions then. now doug has done oh, by the arrival of uh, the number of uh joyce people uh, from uh, from uh israel. and that was uh, clearly an attempt to destabilize the northern golf courses as in yourself. no. and as, as you have just expressed, the rushes, no stranger to either terrorist attacks or malevolent efforts to see, to saw the dis court within the russia. having said that, i do want to ask you about the conduct done initial reaction to this attack because you know, there are certain things that are truly chilling here and on just the number of of victims. we have a handful of heavily armed man walking into

a park concert hall team dar arsenals without chanting, any ideological or religious logan's getting into the car and driving off along one of the busiest roads in the capital. i wonder if that in and of itself is meant or was meant to convey something and if so, wanted to home? well, again, i think we're in the, in the process of understanding what actually happened, why it happened, who was responsible, who was beside the, the attack. i think we, we know a lot right now. but the, the investigation continues. i just think that what the surprise me personally is the, uh, is, is the, the immediate reaction from the united states to the shut up this was the attack attributed to the expedient. as of the islamic

stomach, i don't like find the name on your show. no, i'm the push button except you lose your the point of finger i. a tribute has to be directly as, as many as, as, cuz as many people did that i think that there's more evidence that this was something um the, this, this was a potentially a false slide operation. i definitely want to get to this question of attributes and certainty on both sides because i think it is uh, put in usual to having a task. when you know the time when it's committed, both sides are pretty confident about uh, who has not committed it or who may have been behind. but before we go there, it's a very sensitive question and i'm myself, a russian citizen. i live not far away from that small,

but i think it's an important question to ask to understand the dynamics because in the united states, as far as understand has warrant that citizens not to go to any at mass events and specifically avoid large gatherings and including concerts on the eve of this attack there, there was also some reports about them handing over some vague information about something possibly happening. any of the russian authorities did not change any levels of security in the capital. and this event was allowed to take place perhaps because the russians that, sorry, the russian authorities wanted to convey this message of peace and stability within the country. and my question to you is pretty bland. do you think the, the russian security services in law enforcement services also have to, you know, consider the way they operate, given that the countries and did it? yeah. you know, in a state of war, i'm yet a, we are still at least in big cities,

are trying to lead as normal of a life as possible. well, i think that the 1st of all, we don't know every thing about it. uh about the warning that the and i states made, we don't, i mean, we can guess, but i don't think it was much but the, the shortly i don't know what the actual reaction of the russian authorities was to that to the message. i know that publicly, russian officials um, referred to those of us embassy statements as a, as a way to, uh, let's say, in the back of the level, like on the invite a bunch of pre election russia. i think that their way, uh, this one is good deducted uh is uh,

meant to convey to him messages up to say die to very contradictory messages. one is the, this is an extra special matter. on the other hand, there's a very, the cautious attempt to allow people to continue living normal lives. it may be i would explain that by uh, by the oh sorry it is uh the conclusion that the public how do the spell the last uh many decades if you started would not want to switch to what time and whatnot switched or what time easily that what does this the switch good, the produce more problems. so that's the reality of this may be false reality about the, you know, moscow or is the or, or, or maybe i'll do a august here it is except for bill garage may be quarter sca baby a,

a clearly of the, the, the city is like that done, you have good at all. the city is in the new territories of russia. they do not experience war 1st, temp dish, the dish or things of television very, very deep. they know that there's something going on, but uh, they are low, their own lives, the not, the not feel the, he told the war from a appears thought a point of view. it's understandable that the authorities would want to preserve, you know, some semblance of peace. but if you do not a sort of how your public a custom to the realities of the day, your enemies will do it for you. i mean, if people continue living as if they leave without the war, then don't you think that could be a certain point more dangerous because the shock of a terrorist attack like we've just experienced, would be in this case. uh,

truly shocking. i mean, like it's better to, i mean, the gap with reality here in this case would be larger. in my opinion, is that the, we are, or we have been a war for the past 2 past years. and we need to mobilize in different ways of not talking about waves of, of mobilization, of reserve as this is up to the commander in chief up to the general staff to decide but society, society needs to understand that the peacetime is over for a period of time maybe for a lot there at the time, and then we need to adapt more quickly and more effectively to the reality is of the day. and unfortunately this, this effort is not the, is not really much in evidence. and i just see more people, the official side crying to clear what you call the semblance of the thing. stay

normal is there's, there's just something going on a television screens and the deals collecting uh, uh, funds that helped a soldiers on the front line. but otherwise that so it's so normal, it's so nice. this is one thing. another thing is, is you know, what kind of television content is appropriate during your time. because uh, you know, people work really well, you know, were, uh, were, have a good time in moscow. why loves thousands and thousands of their co citizens were fighting a menu of them died. and that is the, you know, the bread is a problem that needs to be resolved, otherwise i think you're, you're going to get that out yourself. uh, otherwise we may have a pretty serious problems later on. someone has to tell the people that the little guys of his time is over. we have the this

a dire situation that will not go away by next the still by next christmas. so, you know, either 1st year by future we all need to carry a part of the burden. so this, this mentality needs to stop and from all the way from top to bottom, from top to bottom, that needs to change. okay, well, what needs to change, right? now mr. training is us taking a short break, but we will be back in just a few moments state you and the high exception. and i'm here to plan with you. whatever you do, you do not watch my new show seriously. why watch something that's so different opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do you have the state department, the c i a weapons, bankers,

multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't want my shell stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direction. but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you think the water is part of it that the employee would post that isn't the deepest view of us and in the what part is it something deeper, more complex might be present there, let's stop without cases. let's go to the product. as the

welcome back to wells, a part with metro training and research professor at the higher school of economics in law school and the member of precious foreign and defense policy council. now, mr. training uh, as we were talking before as we were discussing before the breaks here and just confirm you need to be managed not only outside, but also inside the country. otherwise your enemies may on taking initiative upon themselves. but let's now talk about the international implications of what has happened in the article that he wrote immediately after the attack you positive that it may lead to serious changes in the nations public security and foreign policy. and i'm sure your role telling me that it's too early to speculate, but still, what are the possibilities here on the international or foreign policy from?

this will be a very slow investigation. uh, no one is jumping to conclusions. um, uh before that, that investigation is over because everyone understands the mistakes involved and they've got coaches that will be made or will have to be translated into some real action. and i think we're closing in on the, on the find an old result of the investigation with bird junior, if it goes and the russian security establishment, mr. boss, because of the a f s. b, the federal security service. and mr. popular sheriff of the secretary of, in of the russian federation security kind of sold a bump. they both essentially point a fingers at the crane and the support

because case also to the united states, the united kingdom. and if up this link to you're creating and further on to the us and d, u. k is established, it's going to have a practical consequences for uh, for the war. i think that with regard to ukraine, we have also heard that the the leadership of the ukrainian security services, maybe in fact village at them at targets for a rush and strikes. we have a good in the days after the, the terrorist attack, the russian, michelle's targeted buildings belonging to the, to the, your gradient security, your services right now they have been just in the last couple of days,

they have been very major dash against your plenty of your trade in energy and infrastructure. so the war has been around the, the intensity of the war. and the russian side has been ramped up. now, as you yourself pointed out in that article on, if the ukranian trail is confirmed, it would necessarily mean that an attack of this kind will would not have been possible without some approval of the head of state and present savanski in this case. and as you mentioned in your article, at this point, moscow is still abiding by its own sort of south take and restrained, of not targeting the ukrainian president directly. but if the complicity of the ukrainian leadership is indeed confirmed, that's what not only make them legitimate targets,

i suppose that would make them uh, necessary targets. i mean, russian security services, including the commander in chief, by law, obligated to take measures to defend the rest and national security. and what i wanna ask you about is, what's the at this point, the larger geo political meaning or symbolism of this self imposed constraint of not targeting zelinski. and he's close this circle personally. and what would it mean to a bad then this constraint versus worrying? it had been evolving since the start of the special military operation. and you would recall the, the, the, the original terms of the pre g that was drafted russian ukrainian cri. you that was drafted by i didn't show but, but never, never signed up. i think that if the connection between the terrace of the train you should occur to services is actually established in the

restaurant establishment, then not only the world, the ukrainian leadership is seen as a cause of law, not under any circumstances, not a party to any future dogs, any future negotiations, but i think this will strengthen the view that, uh, quite a few people may have been expressing open late, got the russia cannot not tolerate the invasion. the russia cannot afford living next to a terrorist state. so that state must go. this would be if that conclusion is rich. i'm told you about the conclusion that about the connection

declared and connection. this is the, the logical uh, photo uh to the conclusion. if you're dealing with a bunch of turbo sound to capture the state them, the doctors, you must go, i'm not sure our audience understands the difference in military terms. what was the differentiation here? i mean, combining a terrace state versus a conventional and the misstate. how would the tactics change in this case? well, you know, of an award. you can, well, you can decide to, uh, to the point you can decide to uh, to come to terms with your phone. uh, you have exhausted yourself at phone. it is, does it yourself, your, uh your comfortable terms, you know, you may or may not agree on a treaty, but at least some sort of an honest look at career. uh since

1953 that has been an honest us out there. no peace treaty. but no more either uh, so for, for, for some people in russia and many people outside of rusher, the korean scenario is uh, is, this is a, please. um, a potentially possible scenario. that's for some people. this is the most generic, you know, i think this, the disconnection tourists would kill the scenario because you cannot, seriously, if you're serious about yourself, you know, serious about your no obligation. so as, as leaders of the stage of cetera, then you can dot to, you cannot tolerate living next door to the real estate. you have to go smash, you'd have to smash the resume and make sure that any future regime will be a little bit decent. may have been an advocate advocate of introducing

sierra, more squarely and directly into the us a russian or us western relationship and make it, it's aligned in both washington and london that they cannot wage a proxy war with russia via ukraine without no harm to themselves. and i think of this sort of argument to receive some rhetorical supports from the russian leadership, right. but i didn't see it materialize into any straight forward action. and if that link with uh, britain and the united states is established either directly or, or let's say, through intelligence channels. what could possibly be the russian reaction? because he, i think your point is very well taken that uh, you know, as russia is being self constrained in this war. the, the western definitions of what is allowed to keep moving and keep expanding. so

how can the rush of possibly start with that creeping process without uh, initiating a larger perhaps nuclear armed conflict in the age of nuclear, the trance. uh, here is the, the best uh, maybe only gotta give you that. uh, uh, the turns will not. well, not fail the, the alternative to replace the drivers. there's no clear war. i'm very tragically. so i've got a field longer. i'm just someone who is on the line of the importance of something that lies up the heart of the taurus, and that's fear. if you have no fear, if you lose fear the initial fit there. so they were absolutely, i mean, even in basic psychologist here is a necessary reaction to it. so actually keeps us alive. this is the king brother

ingredient the survival. and if we want to survive as a human race, that we must, we must uh, tell me a bit of fear when we deal with the with one another. i think that, um, there is room. certainly if for a, if it's the stablish not to be okay and you know, fissions beyond doubt, they're trained in officials where behind that doc them um you know, the headquarters of the ukrainian services of their train. yeah. and the top leadership and the need to become targets for that. it is also um, um a logical doctor. yeah, we only know about this promise not to target their plan. the impression from we're

only know about that from the for leader. mr. could never told us that, but uh, so propose a brand new form upfront minutes advantage of israel was right when he was saying, but he would say that he understood correctly the should the, this promise should the should be lifted. but mr. training again, would that be enough to a forest striking? no, no, no fear in not only in the car. so if you're bringing literature, but also, you know, sobering up the west or know, eats will support that or what has been really, it's, i think there was a, an important statement from the risk and of the no fly, an intelligence service. it was just that the, you know, a french, the sides of the sound, the soldiers into your claim. those soldiers will be wiped down. it will be a priority targets for russia. and i think that the, that is a, that is

a serious warning. and that what it needs to be, and is it good to should not be ignored. now, of the other studies? i think that the, the, i don't know whether the russia cruise missile the folders in space by chance because of some miscalculation them. the in mapping of the flight or maybe it was intentional. i think it's more likely that it was intentional. this is a, a message to my polish neighbors that the, at some point point of the target isn't bullish territory that will be engaged by, by russian missiles. we're talking about supply points. we're talking about communicate, communicate, ations. we're talking about logistical routes leading to ukraine. the levels of got

a solution, we're talking about the need for restaurants, talking the need about the need for russia to assume escalation dog and so not to be always thought they received it yet because being always on the receiving end. but uh, i st. george, safely take us to the absolutely terrify you book when uh, you know, there will be a choice between other defeat of russia or other failure to achieve any risk, any meaningful results in your trade of nuclear war. i don't want to, i don't want to ask all of us to get there, so sure that we don't get to her. we need to uh to, to be more and more proactive. uh and, and dominate the, this situation because it's so much more important to us than it is for, for the united states, the united kingdom, the rest of may so well. and we need to uh,

to assume domination in the escalation there, in order to achieve an early end on the conflict on the conditions that would satisfy our security absolute. and i think your earlier point is also well taken. it's better to be scared, then terrified or terrorized. mr. trying to we have to leave it there. but as always, it's been great. pleasure and honor for me to talk to you. thank you very much for that. thank you. it's a pleasure to talk to you again. it's on us. thank you. thank you. and thank you for watching hope to sara. again, it was a part of the, [000:00:00;00]

the, [000:00:00;00] the issue of us republican no make us a, just a rocket co solution to ending the war in gaza as washington, a prison of a 2 and a half 1000000000 dollars worth of weapons. that is one of the people that killed and dozens more injured in the latest is waiting on a central hospital with thousands of facilities to big sheltering since the