eric and media saying that the one is corrupt and that its employees are lazy and overpaid. i know the truth. i used to work at the united nations, its employees earn their money and many of them spend the bulk of their careers in harm's way. and another truth is that the united states usually gets what it wants at the you when, because it's a bully and the security council, but that's a topic for another show. in the meantime, in january of this year, these really government arrested, detained, and apparently tortured eat employees of the united nations released and work agency on run over there alleged ties to him, us. and that was just the beginning of a very slippery slope. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers. the much of the world is focused on the war in gaza and on the atrocities that are taking place there. the united nations. busy in mid march that more children had

been killed and guys in the 1st 4 months of the conflict, then had been killed in all other conflicts around the world. in the last 4 years combined, the south african government has taken action by suing israel in the international court of justice and the united nations general assembly has been nearly unanimous . with the obvious exceptions of the united states and israel, that the fighting must stop immediately and that human rights must be respected. those demands, however, have fallen on deaf ears. and while these really military continues to pound cities and villages all over guys, it is also arresting. and in some cases, killing united nations employees to 8 and the employees were arrested in january and another $22.00 were arrested in february and charged with quote, participating in the october 7th massacre facilitating the taking of hostages looting and stealing from his really communities and more on quote,

as it turned out, several independent investigations found that none of that was true and the union has demanded the release of its employees. those releases have not yet taken place . but finally, the international media are not just taking the is really government's words at face value even before hostilities began the associated press reported, quote, a confidential is really does ca, detailing alleged links between palestinian human rights groups and an internationally designated terrorist organization contains little concrete evidence and failed to convince european countries to stop funding the groups and quote, britons channel for new said, this is real, has provided no evidence in its charges against unwrapped personnel and noted norwegian physician mads gilbert asked for a tour cli, why is, is real not being investigated for the killing of more than 100 on route employees in gaza. we're going to discuss this with christopher goodness. he's

a former spokesman for unreal. chris, thank you so much for being with us. it is a real pleasure to join you jones. thank you very, very much indeed. have we, on your share for those of our viewers who don't really know what unreal does, can you give us an overview on raw, has been around since 1949 is most of its work in gaza, or is it also active in the west bank or in palestinian refugee camps in jordan or elsewhere. well, well the i'm, the, has been in the news because of it's working garza recently, so for some of up to but it actually works in gauze of the west bank, but also jordan, syria and lebanon. wanted, as you rightly say, to me, it came into existence, was voted into existence by the general assembly. in december 1949 became operational on the ground, inmate 1950. now, almost creation was the result of the 1948 war and at least with so 750000 palestinians, driven from their homes or reflect the homes,

into those in the north. nothing on those into the northeast went into syria. those of the east went into jordan, and both elsewhere went into casa and the west bank. now as its thing, suggest that the united nations relief and works agencies the original mandate and it was about to different relief because that was suddenly nearly a 1000000 refugees who needed food of both the medicine and they needed a roof over their heads. and that's what it is of the months and years actually provided. and also provided looks a temporary jobs because these refugees needed to work. they needed to sustain themselves and their families in some way. but then it became clear that the flexing states as well, would not abide by its obligations under resolution $19.00 full, and allow the refugees, the rights of a tug, which is a big country on the international role. and this policy universal, universal just a declaration. nonetheless,

that's what as well decided and so suddenly of which was doing the is temporary relief, began to move into something that will providence. so what's the refugee's need? they do it's cation the shows and the beatrix of the rest of these needed education . so i'm starting to provide education that needed health, so on this doctor to provide primary health care. but the more vulnerable in the societies needs relief and work. so food assistance, assistance school, those are particularly ill. all sorts of different social network. social security programs began to grow up in the early days taught today. and those 3 broad areas, education, health, relief and social services. those are the main cool programs of unrest. but because some, at least it's so unstable because what happens what's happening in gaza. but the other was in the middle east, west palestinians have found themselves cool top. unless somebody has to carry on with its main services education, hopefully from social services taking over. um, but then to the town to dealing with the most agencies that crop up in gaza is

a typical example of that. and that's basically what, how does it does emergency what quit school diploma does? it's cool services as a matter of course, and it's done that. as i said, jordan siri left on the west bank and gaza since 1950. and what is it that i'm right has been doing in guys all these years? is it food water? medication delivery, is it nation building? and what does i'm gonna do that has these relays so angry? well, that's a very good question. it's a very complicated question. it's, well that's the best quotes one is really wrote to me. however, i will attempt to answer it. there's several issues here. so i'm going to ladies mistakenly believe that unreal is pushing the right over to the under uh is encouraging the refugees to go back to the heads and as well. because that is not true. the refugees have 3 choices, which with, which used to well, they have have either liquids ration. so it's gratian way law,

so the country we set them up, so kind of drove us. we'll give them a visa, they can, you know, and a great, so it kind of goes to us or wherever, an override. and the rise of the time, it's not something that's on the necessarily pushes because in any case it's up to the refugees. one of the whole points of these refugee choices is that they are freely megs. and so it's really not requesting. i'm telling anyone what to do, and under indeed doesn't tell anyone wants to itself throughout the jeep but it's regulates mistakenly some in the fall, right? administration is, i believe that if you get rid of us, then magically you get rid of the refugees, which of course is not true if you got rid of on russ, these people would remain human beings with, in a liberal rights, including the right. so the city's house, so it's, it's, it's really not the case that, you know, get rid of under a get refugee's. the other thing, i mean, you mentioned on the services education, health, a nation building a road certainly today contributes to peace and prosperity and

a sense of calm. and of course that's is that environment. these are things that you all conducive to a political sacrament, to a peace process there. i say it's a 2 state solution or whatever anyone envisages p spikes eventually looked like do i think there was somebody as well who are implacably opposed to any kind of state for the palace videos? nothing unless they sometimes see a slightly slip in that regard. and the other thing is we've seen that the international court of justice, which is the highest cold on the economy, which is sets up to adjudicate disputes between states. either cold on the 26th of january found that there was a plausible case of genocide that these railways, all waging a genocide, a war against the power cities, the cause of has stood up an objective to that. and i think that's another reason why many is varieties of so resentful and so angry about a, it's a great shape because because under is the desperately trying to mitigate the

impacts of this terrible conflict to bring food and medicine and was the to the, you know, 1700000 people who been displaced by the fights and gaza. this is really a rest of so many on run employees was of course, international news. these really is accuse them of participating in a major terrorist attack. the charges were very serious, but they didn't stand up to scrutiny. and after more than 50 countries responded to the allegations by initially cutting funding for unreal. most of those countries have started up funding again. tell us about these really accusations and even more importantly, tell us the truth about these employees. who are they, in what work are they doing? well for legal reasons, i don't want to say the names because this is a little sub judice. see, and i think that when we this terrible episode is over, i think those staff members who falsely accused might well take legal action. so i

want to get you or myself into any trouble. but essentially the is riley is called a meeting with the commission general public, which a general is such as a problem. okay. tons of the chief executive, if you like, you to access and they have a list of 12 staff members who they alleged they claimed had taken part in the attack on the 7th of, of 2. but they didn't produce any evidence. and as you say, and 16 data is then pilots and the thumbs down the suspended funding to under the commission, general vendor had separated a dismiss these workers because he wanted state robust action in order to protect the interest of agency. but the americans, canadians, the swedes, um european union, others, as i say pallet the bread, so as a product to be funded. but to this day nobody's produced any evidence against these

individuals? indeed, the us stations have instructed, i'm too old. it mandates it to investigations. wallace is you investigation independence, developer a but a you investigation. there's also an investigation by form, a french foreign ministry colona. and she is looking at these allegations, also the office of into the low beside which is the un bulky that's investigating these allocations has completes the intermittent report. and it has found no evidence for the allegations as well as may. i know this like the fact the european union has received this funding to the june of 82000000 euros to the suite civil service funding. and the canadians have the danes have adults. so it was really

a piece of fake news with spectacular impact because it led to diagnose the funding on the road to the sheet of $450000000.00. and it led to what is one of the greatest ex, essential crises, if you like. in the history of the what do you think is really goal here was was it to push the un completely out of guys or was it to dry up whatever little funding the palestinians had? was it perhaps a public relations move? if these rarely knew the obligations run true, then why go ahead with making them in the 1st place? was it just for the short term victory? so that should be interesting and very complicated question that i'm not sure because i have house privileged access to his rating intelligence or political information with sources. but i, i would say that festivals in new york times splash these allegations across the front pages without actually checking. so these ladies had in the new york times,

a willing accomplice if you liked to this fake news. i think i added to the sense of the galaxy and guilt which was wrong as it turns out. so what does what he's trying to achieve? i think in the short term they were trying to smear on rather which lines discredit tundra, i think which hasn't was because the allegations of now improve and they try, i think in english the mediums have they which find the fund deborah. and i think that to start with a managed to do that. but i think as you see the news management, the fate means unraveled. and those are starting to come back old, it rather embarrassed. and with that goal, my faces be saving lives. and i like the positivist is to dispatch to and we haven't got a yet. but i think that we've heard these today that these various blogs, the commission general of on the sleep lest it really from going into gaza. and i think that's the kind of thing increasingly we get to see with these weight is

attempting to prevent our working by limiting visas and permissions. and all these things, which of course is a violation of the new mechanism for actually of goods into gaza. and it's also violation of the provisional measures ordered by the i c, j, the international court of justice on the 26th of january. when they said that no member state should take any action to limit humanitarian access in chicago. so that we have it. i think there was 3 main issues these way. it is a pushing one mister smith on russ and to the slips. the name the 2nd is to the fund. i'm right. i think that's on roughly and very last mediates to dismantle and rough and clearly that is an international consensus. it's the general assembly, or 195 nations of the us who give them the in span based on any the jet assembly

can make any changes to august magic model single that the state like you. so congress decides on ruby of what these weigh, these i think are trying to do is use bureaucratic means to limit the work of hon. that certainly isn't the same as dispatching on the we're speaking with christopher goodness, the former spokesman for the united nations relief and works agency or unreal. stay right here. we have a lot more. then when we come back, we're going to talk with christopher about next steps and the situation in gaza and the rest of dozens of and run plays by israeli authorities stay to the. 2 2 the, [000:00:00;00]

the other way not. right. so see what it was that was good. this is just so boost papers. see anything important to me? your last name was needed. read it comes to movies. do you imagine we have some more more or should we move this? we would show new people to the, the of 1941 with the nazis health relation, ultra nationalists,

the you astonishes the claim, the independent state of croatia. shortly off, the seizing power. they build the scene of us concentration camp a place associated with the worst atrocities committed in yugoslavia during world war 2. use dash is used to come system to isolate and exterminate subs, roma, jews, and other non catholic minorities, and political opponents of the fascist regime. conditions in the scene of us. campbell, who renders the gods to which it to arise and the prisoners they send in the concentration camps. so most of them died 6 was incredible genocide. the . 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers and john carrie onto were speaking with former united nations relief and works agency spokesman. christopher gun us about

the is really a rest of dozens of on right employees. thanks again for being with us, chris. pleasure. i happen to have a close friend who was one of the most important constitutional scholars in america . he also happens to be an internationally recognized expert on genocide. genocide has a very specific legal definition. and he says that what is happening in guys a meets that definition is i'm not in any way empowered to try to alleviate the suffering of those affected in this genocide. do they have any international authority in war zones? they do have a mandate to leave it the impact to this genocide will campaign. and since the 7th of august, that's pretty much what it has been doing in guns. so you have to remember the unrest has well over nearly 200 around 15200 facilities. literally schools and to distribution center is in warehouse is old across the golden slit. and when the serious bombardments,

which will keep either 2000 pounds, is waiting buttons being dropped in residential neighborhoods. when all that stuff, people fled to under a facilities to unreal comb pounds because there was a blue un flag flexing above and they thought that would give them some kind of protection. so this let the homes where they felt very vulnerable and they came to and of course when they arrived on the time it's best to distribute food and will to, to give mattresses to provide shelter for people. but of course, these schools that you know, that meant to be used by the 1000 maximum kids in the daytime. so that was, you know, toilet facilities fix on hopefully wants to see if there was maybe 30000 people. so upholding the scroll it living conditions. so i'm, i'm right, yes, absolutely does have a mandates to leave the impacts of the war and indeed against all because you know,

168 uninstall from actually been killed. and in the face of what we, you and it's described as an old school that is unprecedented in its about bankruptcy. in that context, henri is doing its best to provide services mentioned suitable to those who are fleeing and saving refuge and comforts. let's get into some of the specifics here. the harsh treatment of palestinian detainees in israel is well documented. torture is common place. i was speaking with an is really human rights attorney just last week and told me that one of his clients who is in is really prison, said that he envies his compatriots and guys because they're dead. he said that living in his really prison is worse than death. what are your former colleagues going through in these prisons? well, interestingly, a couple of weeks ago, henri, the unprecedented step of publishing a was halted,

which was based on hundreds of tests. and it is by people coming back into gauze, and so people being rounded up by these various medium taken away. and then when the interrogations a little appeared of those tensions over some of them, at least, were delivered back to one of the crossings into gaza. and was looking, you know, on, on this course you have stuff this and stuff it's to, to people is he was you do when, you know, you're working with a check point and people are coming back and, well, image was a pack of illegal and in human and degrading treatments, in some cases torch. in some cases, sexual crimes, sleep deprivation being false to 6 hours in exhausted in positions. in one case, or more than one case of a tech savvy has a met, a whole metro rolled in searches into the rectum, to the amos in such

a terrible internal injuries. and because of that, women describe being sexually harris, the that was sleep deprivation of people with alzheimer's. children with special needs, all sorts of mental issues, was subjected to the most appalling, upholding treatment. and this, you know, this was, this is in a report the under compiled which found its way into the media, but i sincerely hope, and i believe that it will go to the i c, j, the international criminal court. the icbc is also investigating the ill treatment of palestinian detained e. so yes, i mean a poorly old audited, frankly. was crow break war groups already knew there was $700.00 and. busy 7500 palestinian prisoners, i'm probably more is way the prisons and the information on the golf people that

state is with sudden simply cooperates in the city of paulding and degrading treatment. that's the gang fight, since it starts the patient and 1967, we've seen is really government accusations against b on right. employees have they actually been charged with any crimes? are they able to see attorneys is the un involved in trying to get them out? and what can you tell us about under employees who have been killed by the israelis? well as far as the 12 it gets to be allegations with levels of concerned 3 of them are either missing all day and i don't know my duty and is the. busy about all of the others. so to the best of my knowledge, said not in charge, but what would you charge to them? because it was produced, no evidence you. if your employer, joe decided that they wanted to charge you something that have to reduce the evidence and that's still been done. so as far as i'm aware of these, people don't even see the total is low is because that's what we're getting on. so how would that be possible?

so, um, yeah, i mean interestingly, um they built in charge and that because there's no evidence to charge them with all the question you mentioned about on the staff members. i mean, they have been killed like everyone else has been killed, you know, 2000 pounds being dropped on the house. i've got a colleague in gaza, his eldest son, who was just about to qualify as a dentist, was killed because this way this dropped a huge ball on the neighbor's house. and the son was for a place to where this boom actually fell. and so he was killed and it's very sad because as he was dying, he spoke to his balance on his mobile phone. i mean, it's tragic. and his body was on the comfortable because these ladies and not allowing fuel into the golf strip as you need to, you know, for the trucks and the vehicles to track a whole new level off. so not says the stuff that most of them are being killed

like everybody else has some, 2000 pounds, some being shot by snipers, some dying of you know, disease rules, home by bound nutrition in the way that, that you know, so many yards of the site and you know, in the same way that anyone else in gauze is dying and the figure in the latest on the sit rep you on the updates i saw was a 168 on the staff members have been killed by these ladies. what's the long term effective arresting, united nations employees? does this action hurt the is really, is more than it hurts the united nations, or does this hamper unreliability to do its job in places other than gaza? well, certainly it's done a huge amount of reputational damage to the is waiting on me. remember who would that rock when he was 4 minutes to say this, he said that these way the army was the most moral army in the world. and he set out the pretty high standards by which the streets supposed to be judged. and um, you know, that means of that probably being judged according to the highest standards in

those countries with armies. dave, health, defense ministers to go in st. louis or mr. bar, i'm afraid, which is a role for that and then it's because i'm back with so yes, i think there's a huge reputation was coming here. we have the country. so who of a group of people for whom the word genocide was created? a commit single b i c, j, the school, the plausible genocide against, against people who don't supplies. so how great a risk to the company's reputation. come one, get either committing genocide with you. so at a genocide based against you, that's pretty damaging, i would say. so it's very side. i think the as well is now i think more of a prostate that it's ever be in its history. on the other side, of course, it makes it very, it's articles and stuff members to operate this huge problem of wrong seems to

match the 160 stuff members killed them as a cooling treatment, but made a mistake about it. i mean i'm, it has 13000 staffing, gaza, they all to a person. i'm committed to humanitarians. and as the buttons have dropped, colleagues in full, the colleagues of mine have continued to guess the office has continued to report the gc but, but yes, it's a, it's a big problem. and i would also say that so on rough elsewhere i mentioned the idea that they work. in other words, in jordan, syria and lebanon, as well as the west bank and gaza. um its a pull in to see your colleagues being boned and but it's been killed in this way. so yeah, it has a knock on effect. i think on the rest of them right across the region. christopher gun, his former united nations relief and works agency spokesman, thank you so much for joining us. it's my pleasure to be with you on the speak to again soon i have a general norman schwarzkopf, the former commander of the us central command,

who led us forces in the liberation of point. one said, the truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do. the hard part is doing it. we're seeing that right now and guys, lots of people is rarely politicians and is really soldiers, especially know the right thing to do. they know they should respect human rights. they know they shouldn't bom, hospitals and clinics. they know that they should allow shipments of food, water and medicine, and yet they don't. that's why we need organizations like unreal. every person in the world deserves dignity, freedom, food, water, medical care, and peace, and employees of the united nations have the right to do their jobs in peace and security. i'd like to thank our guests, chris, for goodness for enlightening us today, and thanks to our viewers for joining us for another episode of the list of lowers, i'm john curiosity. we will see you next time. 2

the, the water is part of the leg, isn't it? but it would post that isn't the deepest you of us and that in the word part, is it something deeper, more complex might be present. let's stop without collisions. let's go out of the parking in these mountains. yes, certainly rewarding, but it takes a lot of energy and man am i hungry? luckily, i'm in north a setup where food is almost a 4th of religious recipes are handed down for generations without changes. and

this qualifies for being part of the unit sco world heritage. intangible list. that's the again the, the headlines on off the international. as the russian defense minister holds a phone call with his french counterpart. most goes association. we could cautioning powers away from sending a french contingent to ukraine, the, the chaos and these really bottom and right the relatives of the hostages, held by some us interrupting the session. the bonding little makers do more to get their loved ones back home. checkouts amazon's a store of the future too closely as a report exposure as a fleet of indians secretly working behind the scenes pretending to be off official