and have their same interest to create sustainable peace in gaza and palestine as a whole by working together taking complete actions and 2nd western countries must stop there, douglas found it uh douglas, send the perspectives, douglas center view and he felt perfect. so attitude towards palestine and completely stopped providing politics so late to the end, the call and make support. so israel authority. so then we must also raise you negotiations to create an independent palestinian state and upset by the sign to become a full member of the united nations. and in this case, indonesia will of course, continue to provide politico support model support for probably seed in independence. and the security of the palestinian people,

indonesia in russia as a very long standing of relations since the so if you have time. so given indonesia and russia as a long history of this throwing relation, i believe this is a very welcoming and kind of jing, uh, get you right example or president put in to accommodate delayed by c, then elect level. i do believe that the, you need to let throw sanctions to word russia are not only in affective and oppose ah, the other way around. i witness the process of democracy in russia. we did turn out of so many people and also with the transparency in the pulling station proof that they have breakfast, a democratic election,

the logic interest archie does come for more updates. so you again in 30 minutes. thanks for watching the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality. distortion by power to vision with no real opinions. pictures designed to simplify will confuse really once a better wills and is it just as a chosen few. fractured images presented is 1st, can you see through their illusion going underground can the, there's an old adage at least here in the united states that there is no such thing

as bad press. well, that's not the case. if you're boeing, the giant american aircraft manufacturer, boeing has been in the news a lot literally, and none of that news has been good. i'm not talking just about the companies $737.00, max h, crashing and killing everybody on board. i'm talking about other issues in one case, part of the fuselage broke off a plane in mid flight creating a gaping hole in the side that nearly sucked out a 17 year old passenger. in another case, a tire fell off a boeing plane during take off destroying a car in the airport parking lot. and then yet another, an external panel fell off a plane in mid flight and nobody even noticed it until the plane landed. and in the midst of all this, a boeing whistle blower, providing ongoing testimony on safety issues committed suicide. the

. 2 2 2 2 2 2 boeing has long been the largest airplane manufacturer in the world. sure. it's not connect with air bus for years now. but boeing also has a massive military division, providing aircraft, and aircraft parts to the us and to allied military's. the company is worth a whopping $112000000000.00. boeing used to be one of those companies that literally, everybody knew and trusted. there was a time in the not too distant past when practically, every passenger plane in the united states was made by boeing. the company was the biggest employer in the us state of washington, and even the 2 senators from washington were known as the senators from boeing. but things have changed over the years. the company has faced increased competition from airbus, the european aircraft manufacturer. an air bus has successfully sold plains to us carriers along the sol domain of boeing. a few years ago the company moved much with operations to the southern us state of south carolina. because washington

state is a union state and south carolina is not that way. the company could pay lower wages to non union employees. things went downhill from there. it's still unclear if what boeing is seeing is a breakdown and safety, a breakdown, and leadership a break down in the manufacturing process, or just plain bad luck. but whatever it is, the company is facing the prospect of billions of dollars in fines and lawsuits in the future. that is not at all bright. we're happy to be joined by jamie finch. he's the former director of government, public and family affairs, and of the communication center at the federal government's national transportation safety board. jamie, thanks so much for being with us. let me get out of me. i appreciate that, jamie, i'll admit that i didn't really start paying close attention to boeing until just several years ago when to boeing 737 max aids crashed and killed everybody on board

. we learned that there was a problem with the software and try as they might. the pilots could not regain control of the aircraft as they, as they plunged to the ground. lawsuits against boeing are still pending because of those crashes. at 1st, the company blamed the pilots, but they finally admitted that it was actually a software problem. or did the company then enact any policy changes to strength and safety? or did they consider the crashes a one off that didn't really need to be addressed? at least a comprehensive way. no, they actually took it very seriously because there are, this is seminary southern max. here it has been the fastest of, of, of pain blaine series of the boeing has ever had. a 737 has been a workforce since the 19 sixty's, but this new max. uh, $737.00 is a totally basically, that's all new play. a bunch is based off of the old flat sport. boeing, did i have to take serious matters is i take this very seriously and take the

medicine. they're all hands because they were elders, a lot of money. they're going to lose a lot of past clients in airlines. they're, they, they put in a new, can buy a new software system, they update the software system for the m guess they put in new pilot, the manuals, the training for the pilots. and then a lot of other up, some of the updates that were, i essential and making sure that this didn't happen again. but these, these issues came from the fact that boeing tried to rush to the system and make define, get out faster. they, they should have, i see, it seems like since the time of those, those 2 crashes now about 7 years ago, that safety is just gotten worse at boeing. i'm not talking about a simple software problem. i'm talking about overall safety. and indeed, the national transportation safety board issued a statement in january of this year saying that the onus was on the boeing not on

the anti s b b a t. s b statement said very, very plainly, we are not bowing safety department. i can't imagine a clear signal to the company to get its act together to 5 what, what happened next? well, i mean, it clearly there's an ongoing pro, they, they, they dropped off, they had some symbolic people including the ceo. but at the same time, don't feel sorry for them. he got this story. are we good golden parish? you? i betty. so it wasn't like he was just based on the side the road it but some of the few other people have not ever really seen or heard of anybody being checking the child accountable or trouble it. if i add a seriously, how would you on will that as a boeing there shouldn't be more people, there should be more oversight. i think a lot of people, you know, into a human nature with when you have time between is interaction.

people just start to forget it's not that they're not, they don't care or they're not. they don't want to pay attention, but they have to go about to wash them to get the work they've got the big you move over your head for you to get all those kinds of things. and so this track goes into the back burner on the back burner of their mind until another incident happens right now. um, unfortunately, well, unfortunately because of the pin demick. uh, a lot of this was put on on the back door i people's minds because they had so much other things on their light. um and i think it's safe to say though, we're looking at where this is or coming from. it comes from the top down, i don't care who is saying that, you know, and who is actually doing the work on the board. the guys, i think the women on the floor of the factory, i've got the ones who are making a decision. hey, listen, i get this finder was designed this thing some, some grad differently or less to do a have crept job because they are put under a lot of pressure. but they're only following orders. they are,

they are there. there are soldiers in this thing. they're not the leaders, right, you need to go out. you. ready leadership jimmy, just in the early part of 2024. we've seen more than a dozen safety incidents with boeing. everything from tires falling off to parts of the fuselage, blowing off to electrical outages and even engine fires. am i incorrect in thinking that this looks like a systemic breakdown and maintenance, maintenance and safety even? how can something like this happened almost every day? and why is that happening to boeing and not to other manufacturers? right. you know, i have a 2 minus the night my to my isn't this one. um, you can say that these are just horrible coincidences that have happened. and also a lot of these things that you've mentioned are more of an airline problem than i bought dry. we'll following, all right, the sort of balance, those things are maintenance issues and problems can happen whenever you have

a human to validate situation. you have cuban air and that's the number one cause of axes. and this is an incidence is and so that is where i would really concentrate on, on the sage of procedures in the trip, in the training that these people are getting. are they getting to proper training? are they being properly supervised? is their proper check of their work? i think that the airlines and others have tried to cut back and cut that cause because profit is much more important. now as i say that they want cause a crash if they don't want a dressed as a truck, a, a crash is very expensive to them both as far as the monetary, what was the monitor or as far as just cause of it that way. but also the cost of their reputation. so, um with, but with boeing's other part or i just think that the main problem is what is all going on is that they have it everybody's really focused. like right now. i think

these a lot of these things happen all the time anyway, but everybody's really, really focused on the n t s b statement that it's not boeing, safety department in mind. what do you think happens next? i can't imagine the government just trust boeing to do the right thing. what's the process of oversight that we should expect to see for you see with this entire process and the way that big, they've been doing it for the last decade or 2. maybe a little bit more, they've had this like this relationship where if he does not have the resources to be able to monitor everything, as you probably should, is really able to excuse me, is really not able to to do that. so that's a good agree this deal with boeing where they would share responsibility and going with self reports. yes. now this is completely when the 110 percent, depending on trust. and now there's that trust has been broken and it,

and boeing is proven to be a bad player in this. so you have, you know, this is backslash going on. now at the same drug, boeing, you say it's always been getting away with murder because everybody has to be paying attention. you could also say that some of the people that are f a that were supposed to be watching them. and being oversight, have we're not doing their job properly because guess why they wouldn't find a job with boeing actually left a believe if a so there's a lot of a chevy odds here that need to be flushed out and get to the bottom of this because ultimately at the end of the day, we're talking about we're talking about people's safety and their lives. is number 2, we're talking about thousands and thousands of jobs across america landscaping around the world without a doubt. jamie finch, former national transportation safety board official stay right there. of the story gets darker. we're going to continue our conversation about the safety of boeing right after a short break. you're going to want to stay tuned. the. 2 the

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the water is part of the blog post that isn't the defense you of us and that in the word part is it something deeper, more complex might be present. let's stop without collision. is that spelled out of the or the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john to reaku. we're speaking with jamie finch. he's the former director of government, public and family affairs and of the communication center at the federal government's national transportation safety board. jamie, thanks again for being with us. sure. many of us were appalled when we learned of the death of boeing, whistleblower john mitch barnett. he oversaw

a dozen safety inspectors at the boeing manufacturing plant in south carolina. boeing had moved production of the 787 dreamliner to south carolina. at least, he says, to get away from the machine is to union. the problem was that there weren't enough qualified machinist in south carolina, and barnett soon said that his job was a nightmare. can you lay the groundwork for us here? what was the nature of the problem that barnett encountered early on as well? i mean, it's just like i said, i mean they don't do it to me or personally, i don't blame boeing from. ready into his date whether there was they was on union, but they need to be more prepared for this because if they don't think they're going to have the employees down there and it should be able to do to properly, it may change or their factory and their quality of their product, that's a huge back mistake on their part and that right there. i mean like i said, i don't have a problem with their moving and try to save money. but. ready the same time they're trying to move, they save money at the cost of safety. so it's great for south carolina is great to

see the jobs coming into the south. it is great to see a, the wells make sure if you will, in other states. but at the same time, you've got to have the resources, the tools, the people, to, to be able to support a brand. and most of this is very necessary to train them properly. i don't care how, what level is trained properly. barnett said that in the washington manufacturing facility, each safety inspector was in charge of supervising 15 mechanics in south carolina. each safety inspector was supervising 50 mechanics and many of those mechanics he said, were working in restaurants a month earlier. can not possibly be true or, or was he exaggerating? is the root of the problem? here, as simple as the allegation of boeing did, choose profits over safety and didn't have enough qualified personnel. so i mean,

i don't know, but the get the but the saying is true or not. i mean i can't get the feeling in a basically no, we can't ask him. now that is unfortunate with is very sad, sad situation, but he's also very suspect. our guys, i just really, really suspect. yeah. of these co is it, is that happen a budget, right? for boeing. and uh, but after you imagine if you're going from 15, the mechanics that you said you supervising $250.00 crazy. i mean that has, that's quite true. i mean, you know, the been doing all those and so it's, it's, it's really irresponsible and surely to goodness they could have found somebody even if they had to go post somebody from airbus or something right. for i remember years of age running. some other is, bo, i mean, think we can, we can bring in any buttons and definitely putting in the, the, going uh, going at the universities and school and, and, and bringing in these,

these young people to train them to be, you know, who are engineers to begin with, but you prefer to train them in the boeing way, which i'm just here with the boy way is now, but it was, it is something that of that we need to really get. they do really need to get back to because boeing was always an engineering company. i don't want to emphasize this . that was their culture. that was their background. that was the nature of the company that they started out with from the beginning. but when they were quite or i'm sorry when they acquired mcdonald douglas in the 1990 for whatever reason. boeing to john and mcdonald douglas calder, which was more about profit and bottom line. uh huh. i have no idea why they did this, but they and they did. and i think that money motivation people start seeing the money. certainly people making the making money. and they're like, ok, well, we'll stay with this model or that is better than our model was just costing as a reward is made. where is profitable before i don't care what your profit is. if

you're out here selling a product, this transporting people at 35000 feet in the air going 600 miles an hour. you better have a dog. and good luck. product is something that is going to be a safe and secure and something we can all feel good about getting into not trying to get our change, our flights and entries are or travel plans to get off of that plane. that's right . mich barnett was so appalled at the safety over sites at boeing that he became a with to blower. and he had been given testimony in this major civil suit against the company he had provided to depositions, but then earlier this year, just before he was scheduled to appear for a 3rd time to give a deposition, he killed himself in the parking lot of a hotel what kind of pressures do you think he must have been facing? do we know any of the details of his testimony in these depositions or what may have driven him to to make such a such a drastic move? 12, obviously there's issues if he's raising that were very important and very relevant

to what's going on. um, now did you want to play devil's advocate? there's no, so you say, oh, this is somebody that was just got all that has extra grind. that was that i get into their job because they were having a fair, which i've written somewhere. one of the papers just got shot could be hearing it. i just thought of these because what i was reading was, this is not, this is not actually what that is like in just a problem. these are distractions. yes. so he was having an affair. he was having, he was doing this. it was a lot of, i know too much stuff talking about that just get to the problem. stop trying to to smoke string this image get to the problem. and um, you know, it's, it, it makes it very scary for people who want to be a whistle blower because you always told, if there was a blower you're protected. mm hm. um, now as i said, the show on it did have problems and issues like the in the we've all seen. so as, as having to come out of the blue. but all kinds of things so suspicious. so i mean,

it has high thoughts or to i have to say that of the timing of this doesn't make any kind of sense to me. if he decided to be a whistle blower years ago. and then by all accounts, he had an incredible memory and was able to recall very specific dates and events that took place on those dates related to safety related to inspections. if you've already given 2 comprehensive depositions and you're preparing just a few days later to give a 3rd comprehensive deposition, then why? at that point, would you take your life? the timing just doesn't make any sense to me? no, it doesn't make any sense. and quite frankly, if you're going to do something like that within you were upset about something else. when you break something down as a, as a point of your liking, lead me to protect what you've done. i just, i root is just, it just smells joe. as far as, oh yeah,

it just thinks the inappropriate behaviors. i couldn't agree more. and that actually leads to another question is he was the star witness. he was the one providing the most comprehensive information. so what happens to the civil suit when all of a sudden he's not there and not only is he not there, but boeing is not going to be able to cross examine him in a court of law if this were to go to trial. now it's 5, so i have no idea what the, what the, what the legal ramifications are and what the next steps are as not, and not the insurer an attorney. but i can't imagine it. people just saying, oh well, he's gone, we're not going to go any further into this. we're not sure. going to look at this . somebody's gonna have to pick up the manual. and you know, if you're having a company that is not doing what it needs to be doing it and is, is as its responsibility in doing, you have

a company that is fighting against the n t s b resisting during those things and, and all of a sudden they can't find the, the, the records where they were, they had fixed the plug in the door and the, the repair records. i mean, hard, i mean, just, it's all this adds up. it's almost like a, a bad novel australia to a john grisham. quite honestly. yeah. but not one of his good was that is it is, it was a it's, they just got somebody somebody has to pick up the bat metal. and i imagine it has to be congress. you know, it is, somebody was a real authority to, to make this happen. i couldn't agree more. i couldn't agree more. and, you know, this is an ongoing problem all over government is it really is up to congress to provide the appropriate oversight. but then even congress as loaded as many of us, you know, tend to think that it is, they don't have the staff for comprehensive oversight. and so it's this,

this cycle that just keeps rotating. let me make one more observation. i'm a congress, i'm glad you brought that up, is because it, he said the don't have enough staff into it. they don't the same job that we have. our hunters run by children, i average, i think like 12 years old. and, and everybody over to her left to right all the time. yes. and so it's gonna be the only thing that they don't do pay a least for a relationship like, you know, i was a young kid ones. i'm working in washington. i know it works. you go to the hill, you work the hill, and then you find a project and you go get it. they're making jobs or that's right. that's how it work. that's right. but just because, you know, since you can't do it, just be staff the staff on congress thing through capitol hill in congress have, have rotated in at least 3 times. and now there's a few. but the overwhelming majority is all these people have no corporate knowledge in memory of what is going on. yeah,

so true. is there any momentum now for safety changes at boeing? jamie, do you think the company has finally hit bottom and can begin repairing itself and, and will the government ensure that improvements actually are implemented? and i think that delay, you're going to see improvements with boeing and, and in getting them to do stuff. the bottom line is money that has the airlines. if the airlines are binder products, guess what? you've got a problem that you are going to be losing billions and billions of dollars and, and let's remember that, as you mentioned early on at the beginning of the interview, boeing has a huge presence in defense of that huge, really huge and, and that's where their bread and butter really is now right, but their reputation part is. ready on in the commercial airspace area, because not a lot of people don't know what they do in, in defense of space. those types of things. is there a really involved?

yeah. and so it's just about aviation, you know, planes, commercial flights, commercial aircraft is also about the defense issues be a huge, huge contract. and, you know, they've got to get to the point where they are stopping the bleeding of money. and that's what is going to drain them dry so they don't get into a controller. that's right. jamie finch is a former national transportation safety board official. so thank you for your take on boeing and on the death of mitch barnett. so ryan appleton, a british safety advisor, one said safety is not an intellectual exercise to keep us in work. it is a matter of life and death. it is the sum of our contributions to safety management that determines whether the people we work with live or die. he was right, of course. now we'll see if boeing can live by those words. i want to thank our guest, jamie finch for helping us to understand this complex problem. and thanks to our

viewers to for joining us for another episode with the whistle blowers, i'm john kerry. uncle will see you next time. the the media the yeah we're showing on this because of the, of the associate so the whole catch to enjoy to you and you're doing the properties because of us just on the some. so i see the solution because i have some students go to both of them the media to decide because what it is, uh my, your, it was the one year that it was a decides to conflicted splitting, spit, use it up a year. is that glitched? i know got all

the the look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except we're so short or is it conflict with the for as law? show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence . and the point obviously is to create a trust rather than to the various jobs. i mean with the artificial intelligence, we have somebody in the team and the robot must protect this phone. existence was on the

all lies all when you ride in the middle east. right? now and after to ron warranty, it would retaliate for it. at least quite good. it's frustrating, serious. a data breach in the center of russia leave settlements down stream it on the baited with what the forces, the evacuation of more than 4000 people. the safety state of emergency has been declared in the region. india is representative to the international money to fund lashes out that globalization, to constantly on the playing the success of its country is blooming. economy the kind of the what come to our, to, to national reaching you from a news.