in people today and in general in moscow and in the most of the region, it was also estimated that between 302350000 people will be celebrated no sports. this smallest right here is the main venue, but there are also, there are alternatives in moscow and the moscow region. now, as you would expect, also there's some rows were blocked to temporarily blocks and restricted the due to the celebration. but also security was quite tight. uh, i mean there was and there's still is police pretty much everywhere monitoring the situation, keeping people safe as well. now, just to tell you a little bit about the celebration itself, said them further, which literally would translate to the celebration of breaking the fast. it marks the end, the phenomenon which is the holiest month in the stomach calendar where muslims would fast from sunrise to sunset. and so today is the 1st day in a month where they can have meals and water throughout the day. the way they

celebrate, typically, is they would, uh, you know, visit family. uh, they would go out to a new traditional attire. they would feast throughout the day uh, on, uh, traditional suites, traditional meals. so at this day for most things is very significant. and uh, with that of course, it becomes a normal working day in most, most lim, countries including the most frequent, most number of publics enrol side that is diagnosed on chechnya in blue shirts. yep . that, that's done. and so on. so overall, the celebration is all about marketing, new beginnings for muslims, and also be in kind and just having fun, essentially what you do want to get that on the let's see international this wednesday coming on next piece of about with the latest episode. i'll post. oh, that was more news, the top down, the

the, [000:00:00;00] the,

[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered on peter level. sometimes it's words do matter. nato secretary general stilton burke says ukraine may have to compromise with russia. what that compromise might be is left on answer . nonetheless, it is an acknowledgment nato's proxy war on russia. it is ending in failure, the cross sucking ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, pasco, look, house in keel. so he's an associate professor at t o university in montreal. we have matthew aaron. he is a senior fellow at the american university of moscow and director of the rising tide foundation of canada. and here in moscow we have pierre and menu, well told month to use electorate, leon university, our gentlemen comstock rules and effect, that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciated. pasco, let me go to you and kill to it,

because you are staying up late. i usually say you got up early, you're staying up late to do this program. you know stilton bird is a very interesting creature to observe. he's obviously just a mouth piece for the alliance, probably on speed dial to washington, but he does come out with these things that do. we should pay attention to that there that ukraine is going to have to make some compromises. this is a, is, this is a way, an offer ramp for nato, as it approaches it's 75th anniversary, with not much to be proud of pascal as well. i would hope that natal fine and he understands that an offer on this needed now that it has seemed basically all of this equipment destroyed by russia in ukraine on the ukrainians. little by little losing the ability to fight the support because they're running out of man, right? with out external intervention in the form of boots on the ground,

which actually differential the british are now working on. but without that, there is just no realistic scenario anymore. even to drag out the war, i mean, in europe the all the talk is that because as told me, but even that is a law, right. it's not a stone me. russia is now is no really empty advantage and can push on. so it seems to me that realism seeps through and nato understands that an offer of these needed . and this is the 1st kind of signs may be that they are willing to consider it. well matthew, the, the, the, the, the argument that we're hearing now is that, and it's been for, i guess now for the last 6 months, more aid is necessary to give the ukrainians a better advantage at the negotiating table. but matthew, if you think about it, the more money is spent ukraine and material, the less territory they control is, but you can get smaller and smaller with more and more money being said, cathy,

see this is their causality issue here, matthew, it's difficult to say what they can or cannot see, i have to admit when we're dealing with these types of tech and crowds, we're sol removed from a battlefield or any plane of reality and are so used to being conditioned by game theory, models, and think tanks without any attachment to reality. so when they come up with an assessment it's oh, is a little strange. try to get into their shoes by curious. we but i think you're, you're correct. there has been embarrassing over 2 years, lack of any type of progress and, and just the reverse has happened. the more money is pouring into the, the, the, the culture in the less results has tended to be the outcome. and even the i master said, has had to make demonstrations that the data cannot be fledged out that much or, or any more. it's very difficult as much time as normally fudge of data and has demonstrated that, unlike the forecast that russia would be destroyed by this time much earlier on, they were supposed to be economically destroyed. the all i'm asking you for recent reports has had to admit that they are now the,

the bypass of germany as far as becoming the, the world's 5th largest economy, the most powerful economy and all of europe. they've not, they've only benefited in many ways by virtue of what has been done sanction wise and everything else in the war is just one aspect of the failure of planning by these technocrats. so yeah, it's a well, well, it's difficult. i do think that there is like the previous speaker said some bending to reality currently. well, parent manuel here in moscow. what, what, what's, what's, what's really quite curious is that, you know, we have someone like cells and birds saying that ukraine may have to compromise. they all people like felton berg, the rest of them. they always forget the other party in the complex russia. maybe russia doesn't want to compromise, said they considered that purity manual. of course not. oh, they know they should concede over, but you so they own narrative. and the narrow t for, for starting to think about a compromising is because they know the,

i'll go not lose more and more we've time. russia is getting smoke around and do they try to hide disrupted chic disaster. and this is the time where they feel potent of you need to us to concede or to, to compromise, to, to stop for russians to advance and to try to, to save of arrest over ukraine. but actually, or russia is not the same interest of russia wants to achieve, is for object teeth, which is to update a new chart is ation of ukraine. but also, but you, your queen regime is not this threat anymore to russia. so each much mole and the of the mole, we weight, the move of the result of compromise. we'd be at the higher cost for you queen of the west. well, you know, the passcode one of the, the, the difficult things in, in trying to understand this complex, if you look at both sides, neither the 2 sides are speaking and very different languages and then have

different ways of understanding it and what, how it came about what i'm getting on here is that the russians always talk about their security, the europeans, and the americans talk about their so called values. that's why we're not getting anywhere. pasco, yeah, russian has made it pretty clear what these war is about for them. and the fact that on social media ending programs like these, these message has been clearly understood. it has been discussed for 2 years. the fact that that also by the way that we know that this is about neutralizing ukraine as a threats and, and making sure that russia will be safe. he's a very different approach and this must be heard. i mean, but public media in europe into us, this is a completely different thing. it's propaganda. the propaganda is on a different level and it is still on a different level but, but we now see that the people in power actually do understand that what,

what they publicly say and what, how they actually interpret russia are not necessarily the same. so this is the best chance that we have that actually, you know, the people who are responsible for the diplomats and those of the military people will start talking things into the politicians in, in, in, in europe, telling them, look at some point we need to actually discuss with the russians what they want because they are winning or they've got, they want, oh, the winning ukraine is something, you know, these can get much worse. we have to buy really the costco, you know, right. in december of 2021 before the start of the conflict in the february after the russians told the world, tell about the whole world what they want to. that's exactly what they want today. nothing has really changed. they want security, okay. they don't want, they want a neutral ukraine, and they don't want a nato moving eastward. those are distance still the same things. let me move over

to uh, to matthew here. the uh, the undertaker of the west pony blinking. um we sent a 2 not uh, 2 new cycles ago was standing next to the cleaning for ministers. i ukraine will be part of nature. we haven't gotten much progress here. have we, matthew? you know? yeah. all, all you, all that needs to happen is russian needs to be defeated. a menu praise is going to become part of nato. that's, that's easy because obviously the 2nd then, the credit is part of nato. that's world war 3 because there's a lot of, obviously, a powerful interest itching to invoke the article 5 collective security packed. so that's not something that, that will happen directly unless you really do one and all out of throw nuclear war, which i don't think that there is that in seen. so i don't think that there's a lot behind those in the mid, matthew, you're, i'm a, i'm sorry to interrupt, but you're absolutely right that the, in lieu of saying something else, they don't have in lieu of something else or just say, and of course, you know,

that there's no time table there, no condition you just will be you, you will eventually will be. i mean, if i with you crazy and so i said, i would say we need to negotiate the end of this thing here. because you can't trust these western partners. i'm sorry, matthew, keep going. yeah, absolutely. but then you, you have like, uh, what's the name of alexandra of leo, public? who is the, the, the land force commander saying that all citizens must be prepared to buy. and thus implicitly die under throwing up people per play chicks, people who are mentally described a you got a lot of a lot of people just being thrown his ken fodder right now. and they're doubling down and ukraine on the fact that they're the gospel for me. 2 years ago was somehow still applicable in it. certainly not. the reality is completely completely showing a different picture and they're not able to conform to it. so i don't know with, with blinking why he chose to say that it's just that they're incapable of shifting away property from their narrative. that's right. there's only one gear. these people have only one year up here in menu. well, what, what is interesting with,

with the french proposal? i'm not really sure what my problem really means. a french soldier is nato soldiers . and is that a blog, a decent progress on, or i think in narrative mistake as well. because or actually we have to understand the context, vera europe and elections in the european parliament and or the or position pots you'd like to look in potty is far here. read ahead of the box you of a menu item. i cool. and the popular menu item i can choose fulfill narrow teeth to, to, to push the fox is about to be on the side of you play the freedom of democracy against a view to russia. and to accuse the loop in part to you to be a promoter of the russian, the objective son,

and to be pushing the agents. this is totally ridiculous and the interview will come pay your come note is a french paper, doesn't suck this narrative very. they, they want to vote more, more for nation are from so reset, taught, narrative said all under the same time or so. and when you get a mock hole, want you to make friends relieved or of you entered by supporting your queen and gets rush out to, to take advantage of in an opportunistic way of the situation and do to be able to lead or in competition with germany. because french was always in competition, germany to lead to the european project. and it could notice about nobody in you want this to be told anything and to be led by you are a money order. my co on this specially to put troops on the ground, it gives russia, which when you go to twit front, our wall and continue but many expired. so many tell even know it's not possible.

it would be a disaster. so it does been a mistake in terms of narrative and also jump on. all right, hold on to that thought the wrong of it. we have to go to a hard break gentleman. and after that hard break, we're going to continue. continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with us. the. the, what is part of the visit that the employee would post good. isn't the defense you of us and bidding the word part?

is it something deeper, more complex might be present? good. let's stop without cases. let's go out of or the welcome back to prospect where all things are considered. i'm curious about your mind. you were discussing you crate the hey, let's go back to pasco and, and kill to i think one thing. and if we look over the last 2 years of a few things, i think we can all agree on this, isn't it? leach, warm up here. and menu, always telling us about how friends people feel about it. this isn't a lead ward. they, they expected rush, it would collapse instantly. you know,

the sanctions we did with the rubel would become rubble and all of these type of thing. but the only thing they seem to have in common right now is that they don't know how to win because they've lost. so their alternative is just to keep it going . that's what they're doing, just keep it going. pasco, i mean, you're, you're set that there is no timeline, but there actually isn't, that's november of this year because that's the big election in the united states. and it is to me relatively clear that all that the democrats and you as a trying to do is to keep it going until beyond the election, either to abide any save and to saddle for another 4 years. and you can like, you know, kinetic paper out. um, whatever it is, or donald trump wins and you can pin it on him. so really like for the you are pretty americans at this point, is to have to have it going for another house a year without ukraine collapsing for reputational purposes for the europeans. it's a completely different games. europeans, as, as he said, they, they,

they hung themselves in their own words. and that's why we see my call trying to one up the game and even maybe go further then what, what nature would be would be willing to, to do one on their own. but this is such a risky gamble. they know that would be because they could buy this in world war 3, but also it, it, it, backfires, you know, use is credibility in, in europe, stuff to europe and that development go from a bad place to the worst, play it out of their own miscalculations and so, well put, matthew, you know, the, the, the, the adage and politics never let a crisis go to ways. i think that's exactly what your opinion leaders are thinking that would be state of brussels. is it? this is a catastrophe. so let's take advantage of it. let's, let's pursue greater federal ization. let's allow brussels to start directly taxing the end individual citizens of the, you not nation states, but brussels gets the do it. i mean, this is one of the reasons why i think there's a big competition in europe who is going to be harder on the russians. because this

is an opportunity to transform europe in a way that voters will not have no say in whatsoever. matthew, will the, the, the destruction of any type of legitimate democracy in europe has been a long time coming in has been part partly the manifestation of the sorts of ideas we had originally seen where the century going merge out of the mind of people. i couldn't hold the colored z with his a pen, europa of fascist movement that had a variety of, of hyper fascist, like you almost shocked me. circles around, but a, benito, mussolini, many, many of the most hard core. you genesis with global as we're all circulating around could involve declared these idea of creating a united states of europe, which ended up even adopting the outline that, that he himself, designed with beethoven's 9th symphony. big hoping would not be happy with that as the anthem. and ever since world war 2 ended, there has been an immediate effort to try to re purpose and, and put back into play. the churchill was a big follower of, you know, leo,

emery's, kid, julian, and many others were all a advocates, including the head of the british, a fascist party himself. oswald mosley would be promoter of this thing. and this became increasingly a federal realized structure that would have more power as far as an unelected bureaucracy above those elected components of the nation. and elizabeth treaty was just a more recent example of this thing. advancing forward in opposition to the actual democratic will of the people of europe who didn't want this, they were the voted, knowing it didn't, it was still forced down the throats of the irish and others. and so i think you're right in this crisis is being used to advance a more gifted tauriel up or down shift of, of this whole new world order again. but yeah, but if you don't fall in line like a hungry or slovakia you will pay the consequences as you are ursula bundle. and so we have the tools. okay, very famously. um yeah, it's very menu. well, i mean what,

what is the, what does your get out of, of this supporting this war? i mean, i, i see no upside whatsoever. you see you're a p and a leads a band doing their own self interest, their sovereign interest, the opportunity for us to, to see some of the fun of you all for very the you are p and i, you know, want you to a, always to push for a federal integrates in europe before the crisis in ukraine. the europe and projects was already in a very bad situation because babies lester's, on this report from the people are economically he doesn't work anymore. but your role is a disaster. and the european union as no voice in the world, or will be claimed to be jo, put the car, actually between the us, russia, china, india. they are weaker on the weak or, and these crises in ukraine. they've been money to digits. they'd be no actually

visual west approval to buy your buy. you need to announce your mental the fuser of the washing to, to negotiate. we brush a new or your pan 6 year, which a tricky regiment, an e u. member states they photo the yours. ok. 20 the, the government's wide fable review and the integration like you're the french of adjustments they use it. you know, fortunately, as opposed to this way to save the european project to, to find a new enemy, russia to push for more european integration. orval, people are less, less in favor of you. so actually this you, this is a sign of vast saudi zation over you to natal. on the same time, it's because in term that e, v, r a week or on more almo divided between member states. that's a reality tv. it tried to hide, you rush, i'd be kids escaped,

go to of you up and you and your problems. yes. and, and repair and then you. well, it also gives them reasons to put a push censorship in the plaid forming people, all the, all the name of national security, of course here, you know, pets go one of the things that it, we have the 75th anniversary, the official 70. if it's the anniversary party of nato in washington in july, and then, you know, the nato is good at p r. i mean, that's mostly what they do, but they're facing us catastrophic strategic defeat. and that's something they can not contemplate. pasco, i warn you though, you know, a, a base this award that nato didn't win, which is different from the defeats. i would really not want to see an actual real spike between nato troops and russia, which will be weight uglier than what we've seen so far. so guess, nato will gets moves and nato and the nato countries will try to improve their

entire industrial chain because they didn't know the news strategically. the last, the, the, the production game of, of, of a major war in, in europe. and they will try to improve that over time. but they didn't, they just didn't wait and ukraine. i would not want to see them challenge to the point where they would actually go into the field and shifting to a different gear, which would be world war 3. well, i mean, i guess there's one or 2 ways even though there's a path a is, is, is pascal so, you know, okay, nick, you won't, you didn't when you crane. okay. but that's not the lesson learned. tier one downside of this is that now nato certainly has an enemy, remember all before this, you know, rush has an adversary. we haven't, we're not threatening russia. this is not about nato expansion. the other nonsense, but now they can say, well, we got a real adversary here, which really interesting. matthew is the only 37 percent of the members of nato. actually spend 2 percent of their g, d, p on defense. so, i mean,

if russia is such a huge threat to the european con in why on are the all the countries spending 110 percent? go ahead, matthew. know that that's a fund data point that i was just reading how the us investors data was trust izing the the other non paying members as, as you're correct. if this really was a threats. if there were this was a serious, a high priority. you would imagine that a much more than the 2 percent minimum would be spent. we see rushes spend well over 6 percent of their gdp on dealing with what they value as a very high priority to deal denazi's me encroach nieto in circuit of their country . that's what you do when you're, when you have a real threat, you spend the appropriate money. and as it turns out they've wise, we'd be able to solidify a vast amount of positive relationships with your res road. that is provided a greater hope for real integration of your asia and stabilization, based on progress of real durable friendships and trust that anything we've ever

seen before. so that's good, but no, you're right. there's just no actual follow through. so you can see that people are just being strong arms by a sort of force that, that must not be spoken about in polite society in public, to say certain words. but there's not an ability to actually act in walk the walk, which is just part of this whole, you know, detached technocratic scripts which, which wants to impose their opinions reality onto the world without actually recognizing that the world isn't that way. yeah, and they're just too used to playing god for too long. that's why we have this program. we, you know, we're not, we're not polite society. okay. so right here. imagine, well, one of the, the, the greatest um hopes of the european union is 2 things. peace and prosperity. they're neither are in place right now. we're meeting europe. it is a single, the biggest loser outside of ukraine, of course, and this entire ridiculous gamut. go ahead. so yes,

actually the program is your pen union is not a, or to them was project from a washington actually your, the open project. is it the sup uh, strategy of, for washington to control the re, milan to, to, to, against russia. because the washington's as a strategy or for controlling you racial, we for your banner, we blonde on the one side and into pacific on the other side. and european union, we've is crises more on move us. how used by a natal news less security instead of for any sharp project of your project, west piece on their way used as a weapon against russia. and or this is why the, the, the project with a good, we need more and more in a crisis on that for less on this reports of, of people are on the 20, the european union or so is not defending europe a set you up and civilization or you're open balance of power, which will include,

of course, of rush because rush i spots of european civilization and is neighbor. and you raise your to, to, to europe and are actually european union became a little more a tour to defend you. a trunk space under i would say the western dominance of awards, which is not working anymore in front of and merge and so nurtured put on words. so we are losing, in terms of was systemic or the system of international relations and give us why we are still afraid of each company. well, i think we could just say, thankfully, it's the end of the rules base order. all right, gentleman, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guessing k o. so montreal and here in moscow. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time, remember across the rules,

the, the number you use visa, stupid loyce law here. see it to nancy, click jim's in the book. is that probably the initial is just me very the the only showcase use the so i'm just going to the boys at the boys the

what would be the mom's name that'll be for them. i'm not sure if this slaughter doesn't want that. i faxed them, put the notes up under that the headlines this, our washington is quick to dismiss of the phone shell statement from moscow that acute the you crazy in a company. listen to us, the president of the items ton of sponsoring power, a toxic gains, russia plus a republican senate to belong to washington for spending way too much on your brain as opposed to using tax payers dollars to tackle mounting problems on the homefront step by step looked into it, it's about 300000000 of their best estimate. right now we're, we're printing our bar and $80000.00 per 2nd. 4.6000000