side, this time on the building, housing, the world's only full scale reactor, whole simulator. and what are your friends allies say in the bottle this? that russia should stop? stop waltz? exactly. we continue to call in russia to withdraw its military and civilian personnel from the plan to return full control of the plan to the competent ukraine authorities and refrain from taking any actions that can result in nuclear incidents at the plant. well, as the so called compet, since a crate in authorities that are attacking the nuclear power plant that's putting the whole world in danger. so maybe it's telling them to stop would be far more beneficial for mankind. but that side seems to be more preoccupied with demonizing russia, while kids is working hard to cover its tracks. to tell you russia decided to yusef baby drill was to simulate shedding, supposedly from the korean side you cranes position is clear, concise, and i'm vigorous with enough. carry out in the middle of the reaction. so publications against nuclear facilities. the rest of them must leave the nuclear

power plant. you get the id arrive if it looks like a dog swear, it's like a duck and quacks like a duck then. no, it's not a dock. it's the russians that made it well. that way. that was, seems to be easier to accept any explanation, no matter how ridiculous, as long as it doesn't implicate them, or kids failing. so i understand that this, right, so a nuclear catastrophe is very real and totally in their hands. the marina cost read them, and that's a rough for this round up. our social media channels have you covered for all of these big developments. so give it a follow up wherever you see that green and black bar to logo bye for now. the,

[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered on peter lavelle. sometimes words do matter. nato secretary general stilton burke says ukraine may have to compromise with russia. what that compromise might be is left on an answer . nonetheless, it is an acknowledgment nato's proxy war on russia. it is ending in failure, the cross sucking ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, pasco love, the house in keel. he's an associate professor at kyoto university. in montreal, we have matthew arrow and he is a senior fellow at the american university in moscow and director of the rising tide foundation of canada. and here in moscow we have pierre and menu, well told month to use the electorate. leon university,

our gentlemen comstock rose in effect, that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciated. pasco, let me go to you and kill to it, because you are staying up late. i usually say you got up early, you're staying up late to do this program. you know stilton berg is a very interesting creature to observe. he's obviously just a mouth piece for the alliance, probably on speed dial to washington. but he does come out with these things that do, we should pay attention to that there that ukraine is going to have to make some compromises . this is a, is, this is a way, an offer ramp for nato, as it approaches it's 75th anniversary, with not much to be proud of pascal as well. i would hope that natal fine and he understands that an offer on these needed now that it has seemed basically all the piece equipment destroyed by russia in ukraine on the ukrainians. little by little losing the ability to fight the support because they're running out of man,

right? with out external intervention in the form of boots on the ground, which actually differential the british are now working on. but without that, there is just no realistic scenario anymore. even to drag out the war, i mean in europe the all the talk is that because this don't make but even that is a lot, right. it's not a stormy russian is now is no really empty advantage and can push on. so it seems to me that realism seeps through an natal understand that an offer of these needed and this is the 1st kind of signs may be that they are willing to consider it. well matthew would be the maybe the argument that we are hearing now is that, and it's been for, i guess now for the last 6 months, more aid is necessary to give the ukrainians a better advantage at the negotiating table. but matthew, if you think about it, the more money is sent ukraine and material, the less territories a control is,

but you can get smaller and smaller with more and more money being side cafe. see this is their causality issue here. matthew, it's difficult to say what they can or cannot see. i have to admit when we're dealing with these types of technic crowds, we're sol removed from a battlefield or any plane of reality and are so used to being conditioned by game theory, models and think tanks without any attachment to reality. so when they come up with an assessment it's oh, is a little strange. try to get into their shoes by curious. we but i think you're, you're correct. there has been embarrassing over 2 years, lack of any type of progress and, and just the reverse has happened. the more money is pouring into the, the, the, the culture in the less results has tended to be the outcome. and even the i master said, has had to make demonstrations that the data cannot be fledged out that much or any more. it's very difficult as much the guy mess normally. fudge of data and has demonstrated that, unlike the forecast that russia would be destroyed by this time much earlier on, they were supposed to be economically destroyed. the i'm asking you for recent

reports has had to admit that they are now the, the bypass of germany as far as becoming the, the world's 5th largest economy, the most powerful economy in all of europe. they've not, they've only benefited in many ways by virtue of what has been done, section wise and everything else in the words, just one aspect of the failure of planning bodies technocrats. so yeah, it's a while. well, it's difficult. i do think that there is like the previous speaker said some bending to reality currently. well, parent manuel here in moscow. what, what, what's, what's, what's really quite curious is that, you know, we have someone like cells and birds saying that ukraine may have to compromise. they all people like felton berg, the rest of them. they always forget the other party in the complex russia. maybe russia doesn't want to compromise, said they considered that purity manual. of course not. they know they should concede over bunch as they own narrative and the narrow t for, for starting to think about

a compromising is because they know they are going not lose more and more we've time. russia is getting low ground and do they try to hide v strategic disaster. and this is the time where they from bill potent of you need to us to concede or to, to compromise, to, to stop for a russians to advance and to try to, to save of arrest over ukraine. but actually, or russia is not the same interest of russia wants to achieve, is for object teeth, which is to update a new twenty's ation of ukraine. but to also, but you, your queen regime is not this threat anymore to russia. so each much mo, under of the more we wait, the move of the result of compromise. we'd be at the higher cost for you queen of the west. well, you know, the passcode one of the, the, the difficult things in,

in trying to understand this complex, if you look at both sides, neither the 2 sides are speaking and very different languages and then they have different ways of understanding it. and what, how it came about, what i'm getting on here is that the russians always talk about their security, the europeans, and the americans talk about their so called values. that's why we're not getting anywhere. pascal. yeah, russian has made it pretty clear what these war is about for them on the fact that on social media and in programs like these, these message has been clearly understood. it has been discussed for 2 years. the fact that that also remind wells that we know that this is about neutralizing ukraine as a threats and, and making sure that russia will be safe is a very different approach. and this must be heard. i mean, but public media in europe. i mean to us, this is a completely different thing. it's propaganda. the propaganda is on a different level and it is still on a different level but,

but we now see that the people in power actually do understand that what, what they publicly say and what, how they actually interpret russia are not necessarily the same. so this is the best chance that we have that actually, you know, the people who are responsible for about the diplomats and also the military people will start talking things into the politicians in, in, in, in europe telling them, look at some point we need to actually discuss with the russians what they want because they are winning or difficult. they want all the winning ukraine is something you know, these to get much worse. we have to buy really. the house calls it, you know, right. in december of 2021 before the start of the conflict in the february after the russians told the world, telegraph the whole world what they wanted. that's exactly what they want today. nothing has really changed. they want security, okay. they don't want, they want

a neutral ukraine, and they don't want a nato moving eastward, no to distance. still the same things. let me move over to, to matthew here, the, the undertaker of the west pony blinking we step of to not to new cycles ago was standing next to the training for ministers. i. ukraine will be part of nature. we haven't gotten much progress here. have we, matthew, you know, yeah, all, all you, all that needs to happen is russian needs to be defeated and then you praise is going to become part of nato. that's. that's easy because obviously the 2nd then you create as part of nato. that's world war 3 because there's a lot of, obviously, a powerful interest itching to invoke the article 5 collective security packed. so that's not something that, that will happen directly unless you really do want an all out throw nuclear war, which i don't think that there is that in seen. so i don't think that there's a lot behind those. the and matthew, you're, i'm a, i'm sorry to interrupt,

but you're absolutely right. the, the in lieu of saying something else, they don't have in lieu of something else or just say, and of course, you know that there's no time table. there no condition you just will be you, you will eventually will be. i mean if i with you crazy and so i said, i would say we need to negotiate the end of this thing here because you can't trust these western partners. i'm sorry, matthew, keep going. yeah, absolutely. but then you, you have like, uh, what's the name of alexandra up of leo? public. who is the, the, the land force commander saying that all citizens must be prepared to buy and thus implicitly die under throwing up people. paraplegics, people who are mentally described a you got a lot of a lot of people just being thrown his ken fodder right now. and they're doubling down and ukraine on the fact that they're the gospel from 2 years ago, somehow still applicable. and it's certainly not. the reality is completely completely showing a different picture and they're not able to conform to it. so i don't know with, with blinking. why he chose to say that it's just that they're incapable of

shifting away property from their narrative. that's right. there's only one gear. these people have only one gear up here in menu. well, what, what is interesting with, with the french proposal, i'm not really sure wouldn't be crowned really means a french soldier as nato soldiers. and is that a blog? it is a bless and i think it in narrative mistake as well. because or a 20 we have to understand the context for your pin addictions, your pin permits and door variable, position pots you'd, i could look in potty is file hair red ahead of the box you of a menu item. a cool and the pop to remind you, go to my code, choose full feel, not teeth to, to, to push the fact that to be on the side of you play the freedom of democracy against a view to russia and to accuse the loop and paul to you to be

a promoter of the russian, the objective son, and to be put to the agents. this is totally ridiculous and envy you can pay. you can notice a french paper doesn't suck this narrative very. they, they want to vote to more, more for nation are from so reset, they'll talk, narrative said all on the same time also. and when you get a mock hole, want you to make friends relieved or of you uh. entered by supporting your queen and gets rush out to, to take advantage of in an opportunistic way of the situation and do to be able to lead or in competition with germany. because french was always in competition. germany to lead your pen project as required. notice about nobody in you want. busy this to be told anything and to be led by you are a money order my co on especially to put troops on the ground. it gives russia which one to go to, to with front our wall and continue,

but many expired. so many to or even know it's not possible, it would be a disaster. so it has to be a mistake in terms of narrative and also jump words. all right, hold on to that thought the wrong of it. we have to go to a hard break. gentleman and asked about hard break, we're going to continue, continue our discussion on ukraine, stay with us, the, the,

the, the high acceptance that i'm here to plan with you, whatever you do, you do not watch my new show search like why watch something that's so different whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to planes or do have the state department c. i a weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your facts for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want my shelves. they main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way

the the welcome back to across stock were all things are considered. i'm curious about your mind you were discussing. you create the hey, let's go back to pasco and, and carol. so i think one thing and if we look over the last 2 years of a few things, i think um, we could all agree on this as an elite warm up here. and manual was telling us about how friends people feel about it. this is an a lead ward. they, they expected rush, it would collapse instantly. you know, the sanctions we did with the rubel would become rubble and all of these type of thing. but the only thing they seem to have in common right now is that they don't

know how to win because they've lost. so their alternative is just to keep it going . that's what they're doing, just keep it going. pasco, i mean, you're, you're set that there is no timeline, but there actually isn't, that's november of this year because that's the big election in the united states. and it is to me relatively clear that all the democrats and he was a trying to do is to keep it going until beyond the election, either to abide any save and to saddle for another 4 years. and you can like, you know, committed paper out. um, whatever it is, or donald trump wins, and you can pin it on him. so really like for the, for the americans at this point is to have to have it going for another house a year without ukraine collapsing for reputational purposes for the europeans. it's a completely different games, europeans, as, as he said, they, they, they hung themselves in their own words. and that's why we see my call trying to one up the game and even maybe go further then what,

what nature would be would be willing to, to do one on their own. but this is such a risky gamble. they know that would be because they provide as in world war 3, but also it, it, it, it backfires, you know, he loses credibility in, in europe. so to europe, he ends at the bottom and go from a bad place to the worst, play it out of their own miscalculations and so well put, matthew, you know, the, the, the, the adage in politics never let a crisis go to waste. i think that's exactly what your opinion leaders are thinking that would be sleep. but brussels is that this is a catastrophe. so let's take advantage of it. let's, let's pursue greater federal ization. let's allow brussels to start directly taxing the end of the individual citizens of the you not nation states, but brussels gets the do it. i mean, this is one of the reasons why i think there's a big competition in europe who is going to be harder on the russians. because this is an opportunity to transform europe in a way that voters will not have no say in whatsoever. matthew, will the, the,

the destruction of any type of legitimate democracy in europe has been a long time coming in has been part partly the manifestation of the sorts of ideas we had originally seen where the century going merge out of the mind of people. i couldn't hold the colored z with his a pen, europa of fascist movement that had a variety of, of hyper fascist, like you almost shocked me. circles around, but benito, mussolini, many, many of the most hard core you genesis with global as we're all circulating around, couldn't hold. declared these idea of creating a united states of europe. which ended up even adopting the outline that, that he himself, designed with beethoven's 9th symphony bid hoping would not be happy with that as the anthem. and ever since world war 2 ended, there has been an immediate effort to try to re purpose and, and put back into play. but churchill was a big follower of, you know, we'll amerys kid julian and many others were all a advocates,

including the head of the british, a fascist party himself. oswald moseley, would it be promoter of this thing? and this became increasingly a federal rely structure that would have more power as far as an unelected bureaucracy above those elected components of the nation. and elizabeth treaty was just a more recent example of this thing, advanced and forward in opposition to the actual democratic will of the people of europe who didn't want this. they would be voted, knowing it didn't, it was still forced down the throats of the irish and others. and so i think you're right in this crisis is being used to advance a more gifted tauriel up or down shift of, of this whole new world order. again, but yeah, but if you don't fall in line like hungry or slovakia you will pay the consequences as you are a slave underlay. and so we have the tools. okay, very famously. um yeah, it's fairly menu. well, i mean what, what is the, what does your get out of, of this supporting this war? i mean, i, i see no upside whatsoever. you see your opinion, a leads

a band doing their own self interest, their sovereign interest, or opportunity. we have to, to seize on the part of you all for very the you are p and i, you want you to a, always to push for a federal auto integrated europe before the crisis in ukraine. the europe and projects was already in a very bad situation. because babies, lester's, on this report from the people are economically, doesn't work anymore. but your role is a disaster and the european union as no voice in the world. or will the claim to be jo, put the car, actually, or between the venue is rashad china in your they all week or on the week or, and this crises in ukraine. they'd been money to date it. they'd be no, actually this one west approval to buy your buy. you a nate to a national month of the fuser off of washington to negotiate. we brush

a new or your pin 6, your which, which is wrench meant as the e u. member states, they photo the yours are 20 the, the government's wide fable of it. you would and the integration like your friend sure of adjustments they use it no fault. you're new to opportunity this way to save the european project to, to find a new enemy. russia to push for more european integration, orval people are less, less in favor of you. so actually this you, this is a sign of the saudi zation over you to natal under the same time. it's because internally v r a week or on more almo divided between member states. that's a reality tv. it tried to hide, you rush up, the kids escaped. go to or are you open? you and your problems? yes, and in the parent manuel. it also gives them reasons to put a push censorship in the plaid forming people, all the,

all the name of national security, of course here, you know, pets go one of the things that to it. we have the 75th anniversary of the official 70. and if it's an adverse or a party of nato in washington, in july and, and then, you know, nato is good at p r. i mean, that's mostly what they do, but they're facing as catastrophic strategic the feet. and that's something they can not contemplate. pasco, i warn you though, you know, a, this is a war that nato didn't win, which is different from the defeats. i would really not want to see an actual real fight between nato troops and russia, which will be weight uglier than what be seen so far. so guess, nato will, it gets, moves, and nato and the nato countries will try to improve their entire industrial chain. because they didn't know the news strategically, the last, the, the, the production game of, of, of a major war in,

in europe. and they will try to improve that over time. but they didn't, they just didn't we, ukraine. i would not want to see them challenge to the point where they would actually go into the field and shifting to a different gear, which would be world war 3. well, i mean, if there's one or 2 ways you can go, there's a path a is a, is, is pascal side, you know, okay, nick, you won't, you didn't when you crane. okay, but that's not the lesson learned. tier one downside of this is that now nato and certainly has an enemy, remember all before this, you know, rushes an adversary. we haven't, if we're not threatening russia, this is not about nato expansion all their nonsense, but now they can say, well, we got a real adversary here, which really interesting. matthew is the only 37 percent of the members of nato. actually spend 2 percent of their g, d, p on defense. so, i mean, if russia is such a huge threat to the european con in why on are the all the countries spending 110

percent? go ahead, matthew. know that that's a fund data point that i was just reading how the us investors, the data was chest izing, the, the other non paying members as, as you're correct. if this really was a threats. if there were this was a serious, a high priority. you would imagine that a much more than the 2 percent minimum would dispense, we see rushes spend well over 6 percent of their g, d p on dealing with what they value as a very high priority to deal denazi's me encroach nieto, insert them into their country that's what you do when you're, when you have a real threat, you spend the appropriate money. and as it turns out, they've wise, we'd be able to solidify a vast amount of positive relationships with your res road that is provided to a greater pope for real integration of your asia and stabilization, based on progress of real durable friendships and trust that anything we've ever seen before, so that's good, but no, you're right. there's just no actual follow through. so you can see that people are

just being strong arms by a sort of force that, that must not be spoken about in polite society in public, to say certain words. but there's not an ability to actually act in walk the walk, which is just part of this whole, you know, detached technocratic scripts which, which wants to impose their opinions reality onto the world without actually recognizing that the world isn't that way. yeah, and they're just to use the plain god for too long. that's why we have this program . we, you know, we're not, we're not polite society. okay. right here. very well. one of the, the, the greatest um hopes of the european union is 2 things. peace and prosperity. they're neither are in place right now. we're meeting europe. it is a single, the biggest loser outside of ukraine, of course. and this entire ridiculous can. but go ahead us. yes, actually the program is your pen union is not

a or to them was project from a washington. actually your, the open project is a set the strategy of for washington to control the read milan to, to, to against russia. because the washington, that's the strategy or for controlling your racial. we for your banner, we blonde on the one side on into pacific on the other side. and european union with these crises more on move us. how used by a need to need less security instead of for any sharp project of a group and project west piece on their way used as a weapon against russia. and or this is why the, the, the project with a good, we need more and more in a crisis on never less on this reports of, of people are on the 20, the european union or so is not defending europe a set you up and civilization or you're open balance of power, which will include, of course, of rush because of rush i spots of european civilization and is neighbor and you

raise your to, to, to europe and are actually european union became a little more a tour to defend you. a trunk space under i would say the western dominance of award, which is not working anymore in front of emergent so nurtured, put on words sylvia are losing, in terms of the school system, each or the system of international relations. those of us why we are still afraid of is confident. well, i think we could just say, thankfully, it's the end of the rules base order. all right, gentlemen, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest intel, so montreal and here in moscow. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time, remember, cross circles the of the,

the russian states never as one of the most sense community best most i'll send, send up the progress be the one else calls. question about this, even though we will ben in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on the russia to day and split our t. suppose next, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services. what question did you say a request,

which is the headline stories washington dismiss? is paul michelle statement from office go accusing? are you printing and company linked to joe biden? psalm on sponsoring terror attacks against russia. as a republican senator of bloss washington for spending too much show new cream of the calls for taxpayers dollars to be used on solving multics domestics, problems in my staff looked into it at about $300.00. be in their best estimate right now we're, we're printing our bar and $80000.00 per 2nd, 4600000 a minute. we can sustain that much longer. we gotta find the best way to spend our