is in the world's only full scale reactor, whole simulator. and what are your friends? i lies saying the bottle this that russia should stop? stop waltz. exactly. we continue to call in russia to withdraw its military and civilian personnel from the plan to return the full control of the plan to the competent ukraine authorities and refrain from taking any actions that could result in a nuclear incident at the plant. well, it's the so called competence and crane in a forward sees that are, it's hacking the nuclear power plant that's putting the whole world in danger. so maybe it's telling them to stop would be far more beneficial for mankind. but that side seems to be more preoccupied with demonizing russia, while kids is working hard to to cover its tracks. to tell you russia decided to yusef baby drill was to simulate shedding supposedly from the korean side. ukraine's position is clear, concise, and i'm vigorous with enough. carry out in the middle of the reaction. so publications against nuclear facilities, the rest and mostly the nuclear power plant. you get the idea arrive,

if it looks like a dog swim is like a duck and quacks like a duck then. no, it's not a dock. it's the russians that made it look that way. it was, seems to be easier to accept any explanation, no matter how ridiculous, as long as it doesn't implicate them, or key of failings on the stand at the right. so a nuclear catastrophe is very real and totally in their hands. marina cost read them, and that's a rough for this round up. our social media channels have you covered for all of these big developments. so give it a follow up wherever you see that green and black party logo. bye for now. the . the

guy in february admitted with a release of a report from the bureaus inspector general that it had recruited an informant to infill trade. and despite on the civil rights group, black lives matter, denver, that informant went so far as to try on successfully thank goodness to convince 2 members of black lives matter to assassinate the attorney general of the us state of colorado. was this in forming a whistle blower? of course not. he was a wreck. he was a snitch, a criminal. but what happens when the width of lower is not the stereotypical truth color? after all, was the blowing comes in many forms. i'm john to reaku. welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 charles little john has become something of a controversial figure in whistleblower circles. the 38 year old former contractor

with the us internal revenue service was recently sentenced to 5 years in a federal prison for leaking. donald trump's tax returns to the new york times and to the investigative journalism website, pro public in 2020 little john also sent the times the tax returns of billionaire a long musk and others. he said to show that the very rich pay little or no taxes, dividing campaign seized on the revelation to portray trump as out of touch with the working man. reasonable people can agree to disagree about whether a little john did the right thing or didn't do the right thing. but 2 aspects of this case stand out. first little john sentence of 5 years stands out as unduly harsh, especially having come from a judge appointed by joe biden. and 2nd, in a sentencing statement, the judge said disingenuously, that little john's actions put a mere can democracy at risk. and she compared him to protesters and rioters who

took over the capital building on january 6th, 2021. and who tried to overturn the 2020 election? that's absurd, of course, but that's the ugly current political atmosphere in washington. we're very happy to be joined by line on he's a noted media analyst, substantive expert and conversationalist line. oh, thanks so much for being with us. it's good to see it again. indeed. sure, it's great to be a substantive expert and you are a non substantive. that's the problem. that's the problem. there is so much to talk about on this issue. let's start with the case of charles little john. i personally believe that charles little john is a whistle blower, although at the same time i can actually see why people might disagree with that. so give us your opinion on this case and this little john's motivation matter when determining whether he's a whistleblower. i don't think it matters at all. i'll be honest with you because the, the, it's the action of what you do,

not why you did it. and the same thing goes, for example, in law. it doesn't matter why i hit you or why unless it and the gauge or vitiate shouldn't tent, right? but in this particular case, when you're talking about somebody who goes in any here, here's the problem. we have somebody who works for a government and an e t by virtue of a variety of natural agreements. you're not to divulge information that could affect the operational integrity of the organization. whether it's the post office or the irish or what have you. right? yes, it's nash rational, but let me ask you this. what happens if i work for a pharmaceutical company or an insurance company? and i find out that does that you, by the way, you have a particular disease or the you were denied somebody because of your sexuality. or something, and i think, you know, i think society would benefit and i violate several laws,

right. like the vote do it. now it doesn't. and i hate to say this, but this is number one legal, uh, answer it just, it depends. it depends on what these are, but you said, i believe somebody is a whistle blower. let me ask you something, please determine what you bridge between a whistle blower and a snitch, and a rack, or a confidential informant. i mean is, is somebody who, who basically is caught me and says, look, i'll give up my co defendants. if you leave me alone, i don't think that's a whistle blower or is it? i don't, i don't know. it depends upon, i think your culture here, the ation. yes. and then your, your intent. and that's, that's really part of the debate because in many of these cases one man's whistleblower is another man's rat. one of the things that we often hear from prosecutors is that they ask for these ridiculously long sentences as a way to frighten. yeah, there are people who may be considering going public with sensitive information

that has always struck me as outrageous because 1st of all, there will always be whistle blowers, 2nd whistle blowers are what to help secure democracy, openness, transparency, and 3rd, and i don't mean to sound cynical, but prosecutors get promoted by pushing for the longest sentence as possible. after all, they can't make careers by asking judges to impose short sentences. oh yeah. so what exactly, by the way, but by the same token, you know, when you have people who are public defenders and people who run for office, i knew in florida where i'm from the public defender run for office. how do you run for an office just by the way, if you vote for me the person that breaks into your house and while that's your animal, right? yes, i'm going to do everything in my power to get some off still vote for me. it was on here, you know, nice. this is a very strange thing, but you know, you, you talk about something um a while back. i'm sure you're aware of this sentencing guidelines came out and the sentencing guidelines this spirit behind it was that we're tired of setting this

discrepancy and we're tired of judges of finding people different different levels of sentencing, depending upon where they're from. it's like no, no, no, no, no, this is the judge who sits in and listens to this case. not somebody, not in alabama. they hold cocaine differently than let's say california. so what happened was we had this ridiculous sentencing guidelines, which i think was one of the worst days possible because it applies this idea that you could put something into a formula and get an answer. but also, i think society, that should be something kind of commentary right here, where we say, wait a minute, the worst possible, the crimes against humanity, i think, you know, children and murder should get the worst punishment. and somehow a boat gets bitcoin were high, are always critical early. i don't understand and so i'm with you. but let me ask you this again. i'm, i'm sorry, i'm ruining this because maybe i'm, it was a blower. there's an opening of wine that all prosecutors do and they tell they

tell your is during, during for deer or during opening statement. let's say if you're going to try to bust the devil, you don't get angels to help you. they don't know. we don't know what they do unless we enlist somebody from within that circle. so you might call them all right, you might come a whistle blower, but how are we supposed to find her? so i don't know what you think about the notion of the pentagon papers, but without ellsberg what i've never heard of now, how do you think of the julian, the signs news, a journalist? not even in my opinion, not even a whistle blower. he's a journalist. so this is some of it we, it consisted, we are skits of front of good terms of how we a portion of respect and admiration for people who are basically as you say, make society run. why don't you brought to my attention a situation in new york city where undocumented workers, who are injured on the job and who then report their companies to authorities for

workman's compensation fraud, can get papers from the government to legalize their work status in the united states i had never heard of such a thing until you pointed it out. tell our viewers what this is all about. it's called deferred action, and it works like this. a lot of these under scrupulous uh, businesses will take these poor. and i say this sometimes because anybody who's, who comes into this country to benefit their family, i got a piece of the american dream. i understood a 100 percent. ok anyway, but, but they'll come in to work in a work site. let's say it's, it's yours. and, you know, you've got this guy from, you know, ben as well or something and he's illegal. and you, you, you maybe don't equip him with the best safety equipment, right? maybe you don't really care. she hurts himself. and you say, listen, i tell you, well here's a couple of bucks, go to the hospital, don't tell anybody where you're from because they're going to do it for you. and normally, if it was a regular, a worker,

i'd have workmans comp. i'd have to be union, it'd be all kinds of considerations, better safety consideration. so what they do is they use these people benefit from their hard work, and then when they're injured, they threaten that would do for jason or whatever. so now just call the defer and action where the judge and others and state labor agencies will actually not only protect these workers, but accelerate in green light a faster application. we just kind of argue that one, but i think in, in, in, in syria make sense because if you're going to benefit from these people working at sub standard late wages, not paying social security, not enjoying any of the projections you have. you've got to have somebody to help them in india, but they're injured so it does make sense. however, here's the downside. let's say you own a construction company and, and i'm the, the worker. i'm going to say, guess what? gary are good. i'm going to get hurt within 5 minutes a started. mm hm. i'm heart. i'm heart, right. where's my paper?

i mean, i got hurt. i just thought about guns not pay. so i can see where this could be kind of abuse. where all of a sudden they're dropping things on their feet, they're taking, you know what i mean. so it sounds terrific, but don't think that the criminal minds can't interrupt the, the sagacity of the program. yeah. well, i don't. thank you for these insights. stay with is there when we come back we're going to ask lionel about an even more absurd sentence for an even more important list of lower. so say to the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 a, a, a, the,

the russian states never as i've started as soon as the most sense community invest in most all sense and up in the system must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the russians cruising and split the ortiz food net keeping our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube. the services for question, did you see a request for chance? the

19 sixty's were a turning point. the advertise struggle for liberation. however, in the south of the continent, european races decided for a long v agony of colonialism. these 1965, the white minority, unilaterally declared the state of rhodesia states authorities pursued the policy of racial segregation. the indigenous population was deprived of rio political rights and subject them merciless economic exploitation. african bait variance with the support of the soviet union and china oppose the splinter of the colonial system coalition of pro western centuries, just the side of road. these are the gorillas carried out bold raids from the territory of zambia and mozambique and inflicted painful blows on the races. as the

situation worse in the road, easy, an army turned to chemical and biological websites. the races boys in the water and food and planted contaminated medicines on the gorillas. this caused an epidemic of cholera end to end directly and lead to masturbate to ality. however, the attempts to break down the applicants resistance were futile. the white minority relief was due in 1979. it could be delayed a year later, free elections warehouse instead of racist road. the just the state of zimbabwe appeared on the world map and became a true best just of the ideas of man african is of the. 2 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto were speaking with media critic, analyst, and all around well informed guideline all about the different forms that whistle blowing takes line. oh, thanks again for being with us. indeed. why don't in late january a former c,

i a software engineer by the name of joshua schultz, was sentenced to 40 years in prison after being convicted of sending documents to wiki leeks that have come to be known as volt 7. the c, i a has said that this was the worst breach of classified information in the c i is history. shulty though was adamant that he was not the source of a week. and indeed, there was no direct evidence that he had actually done this prosecutor said that there was no evidence because he was such a computer genius that he was actually even able to cover his electronic tract. and he was convicted. there is no pearl in the federal prison system, and so the shortest sentence that he has to serve is 34 years. so it's 40 minus good behavior time 34 years of which at least the 1st 14 years will be in a maximum security penitentiary. shulty was accused of releasing evidence of this.

the i is ability to turn smart tvs into microphones so that they could even drop on conversations, even with a tv turned off. he was accused of releasing evidence that the c i is able to take over cars by hacking into the vehicles computer system and then to force the car off the road or off a bridge or into a tree. and there were at least a dozen other programs that he was accused of compromising to me. this fits the bill of whistle blower. what are your thoughts? should we fear people like joshua shulty or should we celebrate them as well? for as far as what you just told me, you think about what you just said, i'm thinking myself, you're doing pregnant, have guys to give them an award? yes, that's number one. number 2, the, the ca says this is the worst breach ever did it or heard you pack. did it heard you were there already? machines compromise or was it really a breach if i broke into your home but didn't take anything?

i mean technically that's burglary, but don't you to that you be getting back or what if for example, i said there is a person who is dead there were, there are no fingerprint, no forensics? no, nothing, no here, no fiber. what were you to charge you with giving you a murder? what about the lack of evidence? that's how good you are. you're so self like in your mercury. now you also under federal sentencing, there is no parole under the truth in sentencing act. you have to serve 85 percent . right. let me talk to you about that very quickly. do you know what prison guard say? great. take away the incentive. in the old days, in a regular system, when you would have somebody that says, listen, you play your cards, right? can you g r e work out and maybe save a guards live? we will knock all this time a large of the help people learn to trade out there for a rise. and i said, oh you're saying now you're saying just sit back. and i remember years ago when i was the prosecutor, there was a discussion of should, should we take away weight,

lifting and from the presenters because no, because this gave them something to do. and the guard would say, no, let me go back to what you're saying. for the case of michael hastings has made all of us on his car just right out of nowhere. it seems like what was this about and well, we don't know, we're not really sure. and i love what do you see? i don't want to get conspiratorial, but that is a bit odd. yeah. all of a sudden you pay for a lot of money for a very expensive car that lo and behold does something that a you go doesn't do. you know, it just doesn't make any sense. but let's go back to what we're talking about here . we need these folks. remember in the case of julian assigned, when they said to him, he said i did. and by the way, there is a supreme court case called the bar nikki against viper. and it says, even if you as a journal, this received information that stole it. let's take a showcase information. and when he passed it on,

don't know what she owes the journalist, theoretically, easiest part nicky case except in the case of julian assigns because he said i didn't break any. what do you think they came to me? yeah, but you might have help them. and so here is the question. number one, this is what i want everybody to answer. do you america, or do you not want individuals who are involved in government agencies and offices to never tell you what your government is doing in violation of some real? do you want that? so if your government, if there is water in flint, michigan or some radioactive chemical, that's it, do you or do you want to live in a whirl? and the answer is, of course no, i want, especially if it helps me. great. now how do you propose to protect people? are we going to have a, i submit, just like we have queen tim legislation, which,

which allows you to benefit in the proportion of money use that you save by, by alerting the government to fraud. well, that's whistle blowing, which i'm legislation, people make for change of that, right? we ought to have almost a separate bureau or some type of a, of a, of a, of a, a tribunal. that determines yes. the information also, did you try any other methods of letting the country know about this? some people do it out of desperation. she'll be able to or not. that's not their 1st move. maybe they want to, uh, a newspapers maybe, maybe, maybe they, they met with people in the agency. listen, boss, you know this stuff is these a, we're, we're, we're, we have um, you know, toasters that blow up and you know, something that people might want to know. what, what did they do prior to this? is there any, any agency, any, any tribunal that somebody can go to at least determine the legitimacy of it?

because i don't want to live, i don't know about you. i don't want to live where, where people are this incentive i, it's right from warning me of my impending dev warning me, of, of somebody that, that, that could kill me and my family to having people better know what we're talking about. and you want a new name, whistle blower. how about um you know, uh, you know, make shift journalist. what's a journal is to somebody who report somebody who's a reporter, right. we need a different name to his teller. yes, the member number, there's no such thing of being a whistle blower if it's fake. that's right. it's like, you know, no label is only liable if it's fate. if it's wrong, if it's false, but yeah, never get just, it's just like a conspiracy theory is always right. how does the problem? it's this thing that so these people actually warning us. i've never heard of anybody who was put in prison for a frivolous,

unimportant whistle blowing me nothing. you know, when you save the government $0.30 a year on packaging, or, you know, it's always something that's drastic. critical affects people's lives. that's, that's up. so the more time you get in prison, the more important it was for the country to find out about it. think about that. what kind of a message is that? yeah, i think that's exactly right. no, getting back to the notion of long sentences serving as a deterrence or not serving as a deterrent. i actually find that to be disingenuous. in 1996, when i was working at the c, i a, i sat next to a woman who was having an affair with a journalist with cnn. in the course of pillow top, she revealed classified information to him, which he then promptly repeated on the air. the c. i investigated the leak and they immediately found that my coworker was the source. she was not charged with the

espionage. she wasn't even fired by the c i a instead, she was suspended without pay for 2 weeks. a strongly worded letter was put in her personnel file and she was not eligible for promotion for one year. that was enough . she never revealed classified information. ever again. what do you think that says about the draconian sentences that we've seen in recent years more than 5 years for reality? winter, for example, more than 4 years for daniel hale. now, 40 years for joshua shopping, what are we supposed to take from all that? and this is interesting because this is not a whistle blower. by the way, there's a terrible pun that it can be using, but i'm not going to do it because it's a family show. this is not a whistle blower in the classic sense. this is somebody who actually reveals like a, uh, let's use it was a boy, that's

a squealer. a reverse racked somebody who was, you know, a veritable trader. i don't know what you would have called somebody who is a government agent. who base a summer general portray is got into a little oh yeah, but with somebody perhaps oh yes. um uh number that one there which is very different. denver and oh really? yeah. and have, you know, you wouldn't use sake, don't you think that somewhere there's some school that they take, you do is like no less. here's torture. this is how they want to avoid charger and water boring. but when you're in bed with somebody that that's what we're really double down on. imagine the training they go through just to simulate that, just to make it real like life fire anyway, i'm getting off into this. but what happens is think about this message. she's not, what was her self interest? what was the whistle blower says, i'm trying to do something to help society shut up, jo, 80 years. no,

you don't understand. kids are needing ground glass yo measurements, 80 years. this one is i'm trying to make time with this guy. i'm just trying to impress him. i'm just, i'm not benefiting anybody. i got a big mouth. it's not like welf, crammed. i'm just, i'm just, yeah, get it up for no reason. this is the worst. this is negligent, it could be if you think about it, treason is you still, you weren't tortured back shak it up, we're in a bad a couple of hits a she. 8 name jr. now, what does this tell you? this would be the worst. and by the way, you know that everybody in her division or our area was say, wow, let's see what, imagine what's gonna happen to this one. a letter in her file. yeah. the right and the files apps a great it is. yes it is. uh huh. yeah. so. so which i double secret

probation. i mean does this, this is good. so frantic. this is the worst. what kind of training the do, do you think i'm and, and also a message? so i think i, i hope that if we can, if anybody you're watching this today as they are, i hope people realize they come away from the speaking stuff. didn't make any sense precisely. exactly. that's exactly the point. well, i want to thank our guests be uncomfortable, lionel, for joining us today and for sharing his insights, we were happy to have you line on. and thanks to our viewers for taking the time to be with us. charlotte louie, this account on the 18th century, french judge and philosopher, known as monk esque you. once said that there is no greater tyranny than that which is perpetrated under the shield of law and in the name of justice. i believe that is exactly what we have seen developed right here in the united states over the

past 20 years, and its treatment of whistle blowers. what remains is for the rest of us to fight. as edmund burke, one said, all that tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for good people of good conscience to remain silent. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers john curiosity of we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the, i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're so shorter is that conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient. we should be very careful about visual intelligence. the point obviously,

is to create a trust rather than fit the job. i mean with artificial intelligence. we have somebody in the, in the a robot most protects his phone existence was alexis the,

[000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered on peter lavelle. sometimes words do matter. nato secretary general stilton burke says ukraine may have to compromise with russia what that compromise might be is left on answer. nonetheless, it is an acknowledgment nato's proxy war on russia. it is ending in failure,