[000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the, i'm actually understands the welcome back to going undergrad, broadcasting all around the world, from the u. a in a week of the 5th anniversary of the beginning of britain's torture and incarceration of june innocence. we don't even need wiki likes to tell us that the us has lost its proxy war on russia through ukraine, even us deputy secretary of state. good campbell is acknowledgements because military success with nothing to stop the war of attrition. ukraine is down to using homemade drones to attack russia. and according to moscow, a cab hatched plan with a hunter binding link company to carry out much as most good constituted atrocity

even the amazon washington post revolt, ukrainian presidency. lensky was abolished. elections is quickly running out of options. the international community, rather, the trading with russia is meanwhile, a gast, of major nation military support for genocide in gaza. in this region, former nato analyst kind of jack bo was in ukraine after the us back crew that kicks off the war in europe. in 2014, he left the piece policy and doctrine division of the u. s. department of peacekeeping operations and is just publish operational acts up loud, the defeat of the vanquished and the russian author of war. how the west that ukraine to defeat, you joins. we found the home of nature, headquarters, brussels in belgium, con. no, thank you so much for coming on as i was saying, the international community, a more concerned with how they have a the nation economic sanctions when it comes to ukraine. if they gonna think about ukraine, because clearly genocide and gaza is the big story internationally. but just take

us back to what you saw off to the us back, who in cabin 2014 has a name to a worker, someone who's on the nato payroll. so that's a special lead the matter inside. because as you know, i'm a swiss cologne, switzerland doesn't belong to nato, and i was in nato in the framework of the partnership for peace. but i had a position as head of a small unit dedicated students, struggle against a prey for ration of support arms and i in to in 2014. as natal suspect to that, the don't boss. we both received what happens from the russia, from russia. i was in charge of money training and get that conflict. and in fact i had uh, 2 different i, i went to to ukraine under different hats. the 1st one was under the hat of this. uh, uh, the struggle against pretty for ration of. oh,

so what on site it just said, i gotta have to was that because i'm also a un experts on the role and reform of security change institutions. and what happened in the, the 20142015 is that the ukranian army which was in charge of the repression of the, the rebellion, not just in the done best, but in the whole science of, of u. k. we have forgotten that after they abolition of the law or the language in the ukraine, it's the whole south of ukraine. in fact, i started big protests from what they saw to up to, to done yet as well, but the costs are given and therefore they, the ukrainian army was involved. but the problem is that the ukraine army was composed both by ukrainian speakers and russian speakers and very soon the ukrainian or russian speakers in the ukraine. now,

i mean just the effect of the rebels. and that's, that's, that explains, in fact why the red bows got so, so much a weapons and so fast. because complete the regiments in baton ions from the ukraine unami just defective pseudo rabbits. and based on that, the ukranian government ask naples to assist in a kind of restrictive string of the armed forces and improve the goal. so all the matters of each turn, the discipline and all that. and i was involved in that, and therefore i had the opportunity to watch the, the conflict from within the ukraine at that stage. and what, what the, what a dot point, what, what surprised me was the difference. we good notice between what i could see in the field and what the western media are reported. in fact, we have, we had a totally different picture as the what, what was happening in, in ukraine,

by the way, oh, the protests that happened off the 23rd of february 2014. nobody talked about this in the west. uh, and, and in factories directed strongly, the whole security within ukraine and the whole relationship between ukraine and the, the, the, i mean, you're creating a new t s and the difference of loss of, of, of, of ukraine. and you will have the dying crypto naziism. uh, in terms of uh, anti russian culture that was occurring even back then of course we so much more into the landscape the, you know, the, the go in 2014 was in fact engineered by a very small, full amount of individuals. that's where is each of those. in fact, those extreme right, we could only try nationalist groups, which some have named neo nazi, some well known as the older or the recipient. their tradition noticed. but in any

case, this was a very small group. the, the majority of the, especially government forces you had a lot of people were just consecrating, fucking, there was a conscription army at the time. and a lot of individuals, in fact, were not so keen in supporting the government, because this was the, the new government that emerged from the euro. my done, i do as it became known, i did this new govern plus, has, was not elected. and, and all the, this the, the russian part or direct. yes, the russian part of ukraine didn't accept the, the changes that were led to by these, this new got undetected the government. and in fact you had, when i was there in, uh, september 2014. that's the time when the rebels is declared to date, your director because nobody was here. and in fact, you had popular republics,

not just in the don't boss, but also, you know, they saw in naperville drops. it had a son. you had popular republic. that's where, in fact, i created, well they, they didn't stay very long because the oppression was very hard. and because the ukraine army couldn't manage that because of the presence of russian speaking soldiers. that's the reason why the government started to recruit or military forces. and those for me to 3 forces where in fact of tradition i used to at the same guys who did the, the, the might on a price, i think in fact, mean the 2nd stage of that the uprising and those guys were sent to meet the repression in the south of the country and that became extremely violent. and in fact, you had the, in the south, i mean, they saw fit a saw a neighbor,

but drugs could this, you had really mess checkers and, and kind of of, of the trade union building famously. but just actually, that's what exactly you a quick jump to today, because uh, yeah, i mean, so your contention is that the landscape is facing. if we just leave aside the $61000000.00 number that's being thrown around, they do a nation valuable propaganda media at that. so let's get in terms of getting the soldiers together. people in the south, as well as the still want to serve on people in the west of ukraine, even well, even around. you wouldn't so as it lensky led to the army for the next. what happens next to the us proxy has in school? well, in fact, what happens is that since last year, i mean especially off to the failure of the costs are offensive in 20 to 23. what's you had is that you had a division within the of it forces you had a neighborly,

you had the materials allusion, a who became a investigator in the u. k. by the way. and you had the general serious, serious key who became the, were replaced in fact, that lose me as head of government forces and between the 2 have a fundamental difference in the, in the approach of the defense of the country. in general, is that those me, here's a little bit more russian, if you want a nice way of waging war, he's probably more interested in having more, more by the welfare and using operation arts in the, in the weight in defending the sumo, by the operations was this is on the same line, a zalinski, and he was to defend every single square inch of the country. and this is, this is where you'll have the,

the big problem either into ukrainian army because the russians never strive to try to get the territory. the purpose of the, the, the russians in, in the intervening in, in ukraine is basically to destroy the threats to the population on don't boss. that's exactly what we're glad to get put in said the 24th of february 2022. and in fact, that's exactly what the russians are doing. so the russians are not trying to gain territory. they are just trying to destroy a potential. and therefore, the id of defending every square inch of the territory inside plays into the strategy of the, of the russians. because the russians, they just, they, they just destroyed. but and so these are the visuals, they, the story equipment, the destroyed a weaponry, they destroyed everything. they don't, the don't needs to have be advanced and big arose on the map. this is not the,

the idea, but just to hear his actions, you know, things and i ask, is a russian spy presumably, but then uh on uh, on developments right now though, there have been a tax on is that for each or reactor in the past few days the i yeah. so even that to make us arrest statement saying that all of west and europe wasn't about to be destroyed by boys and this radioactive gas. presumably i'm not sure what he uh he meant. but you know, you make the terrifying observation in your new book that these high mas, kamikaze drones from the united states, the britain stones from britain. and the firing is monitored by these native nations does not mean that they know the targets, like that for reason or the targets in elder, all the civilians. it'd been happening in the past few days. well that's, that's exactly what to this is that to my observation effects off shows the, the phil said that that's the, the rates and the french where in fact, assisting ukrainians in targeting and, and, and making those uh,

the cruise me sizes, especially the sort of try those and the scholar for me, so i'm, besides which are in fact the same me so i but one is to read this one, the french one. but in fact, the, the western western military is assisting in targeting a for the those besides the that you rush or to 5 me. the responding, given that we heard from boots in the, if they're with nato troops and said you in ukraine they would be a response. we know that well, from the leaks phone. cool. in germany that the british troops that i'm not sure we will talk about is illusion the what his role is they have with the intelligence services. and that may 6 in london as russia just too frightening, of attacking the source of those who are talking weapons in belgrade and in moscow i don't think so. i think you're a very small groups of individuals who are not talking about huge but timelines and things like that. you have just a few experts. so that's that,

that's just the so it's probably, i have no idea. i don't know if the russians know where those guys are and where they are able to do. in fact, the target them. but if, if they would, they would able to do so the, the russian would certainly do so. in fact, in january or early february 5, even the wrong the, the russians targeted a hotel in a hot calls, which was a full of a french soldiers. and in fact, probably even personnel was sisters for the handling gun maintenance of the enter across 3 sides. that's why delivered by friends to ukraine. so in fact, the versus i looked afraid at all as soon as they was detect them that will destroy them. so that's, that's what, that's for sure. now the issue of that footage, as you mentioned, the problem is that, okay, the kind of will have to get back to the nuclear reactor. i'll stop you. the more from the author of operation, alexa flooded the defeat of the vanquished and the russian, not

a war. how the westland ukraine's you to feed off to this break the the, what is a part of the employee would posted isn't the defense you of us entered in the word? or is it something deeper, more complex might be present?

let's stop without collision. let's go part of the the will go back to going underground. i'm still here with retired, so it's on me come home and they to alice jack bow, connell, i rudely interrupted at the end about one is you were talking about, you know, what could be the in the west and your body could be this week. it could have happened this upper region, nuclear plant and the nato and weaponry that went to attack it in the past few days . well if frank, this is not the 1st time to recreate and try to, to attack this uh, this power plant. and the purpose of that is just to, to, to provoke, they do your opinions to, to intervene in the conflict. in fact, this has been a constant trial policy or strategy of the ukrainians. this,

the beginning of the, of the war in fact, trying to have a kind of a no fly zone or some kind of intervention from nato eden. ukraine. and, and now this is exactly what the repeating, what have done last year and the year before, the just trying to provoke the intervention of the, of the western armies. the idea would be to create some kind of a, do me to try zone around the, the, around the power plant or something like that. that would in fact, present a movement from the, from the ukraine side. that's the idea. and they, they have done that, as i said in the past, so they would probably try again this year, this year. i'm the, that's the, don't the city of and it's clear from, you know, lloyd austin, the boss of the pentagon. so it's cancer who, when they will from the pentagon, recently he was testifying, begging for money and congress this week. clear that it isn't even about ukraine.

he's honestly talking about how the $61000000000.00 is more about the rejuvenation of the weapons industry in the united states in the industrial base that is about anything to do with ukraine. why do you think the john, let's don't ask about if it really is so important for us security, boring the money into ukraine or weaponry into grain. the, the why is it, why are they outlawed us troops going to help the ukrainians or? well, i think it has never been about to crane. and in fact, the 1st strategy regarding you created a new fact i was trying to get describes exactly what we have seen in the last 2 years. was written in 2019 by the rank cooperation. that's outlined a strategy with 6 points. that's this, that's uh, in fact, i'll tell you exactly what we have seen to also. and the purpose of that strategy

was not to help you create it also to instrumental eyes, ukraine, you know, to, to weaponized ukraine. if you want to, we can russia is less confirmed a few days ago by uh, by joseph brand, the head of the, uh, the final phase of the european union. who said that this conflict is not because we love of ukraine. it to be. it's because we want to support the us interest. so it's, it's amazing that even a very high ranking guffy show of the european union confessed that it was about, about just supporting us interest, by the way, in the rank operation, the report or strategy the night or 2019 that's it is explicitly right, right. the that's applying or implementing the strategy would close to ukraine. huge loss of territories, huge losses in personnel, and will force ukraine into

a disadvantages piece. so we knew from 2019 that's implementing the strategy would, would lead ukraine to look at this real feet. now that, again, the purpose of the whole thing was too weak in russia. why do we can rush out? because at the, the, the, the, the, the, the, let's say, the center of gravity i would say of the us strategy is in fact china. and the problem is that they, they wanted to present russia to be a strong supports to china, and therefore they had to weaken a restaurant these, even in the state department, there is an initiative. and you had us in the last 2 years, 3 years, you had at least 7 in 7 international conferences about this. it's about the so called the, so a so called this, the cut on these i did go to nice, think russia,

it's about dismantling russia. and creating out of russia about between 18 and 32 countries based on the, the city of the different republics. and in fact, to 2 completely dismantled russia as the state. and again, the one of the conference they've been happened last year in processing the breast of the department, the department building. so we have talking about something which is actually the offer schultz, which is on the website to of the state department by the way. so, but it hasn't worked out very well. okay, because trying to rush or close it together. we don't match it. okay. i take the opportunity to happen, but you mentioned the rand corporation people can watch on monday. we have a modem to help or a new road be ran documents that will leak by down ellsberg friend of the show, the late then those with the to help stop the vietnam war last only after a few 1000000 it'd been killed. why is it that when you talk about the rand corporation daily explaining what the ukraine proxy, what it was all about? it's in the public view,

and yet the war is unstoppable. can we about the fatality ration desertion rates? why is it that when you quote the rand corporation and information on like the vietnam, or it doesn't stuff this, this catastrophic well for the grading and people tomorrow as well. in fact, even the rank corporation has written several separate reports recently stay is saying that in fact, there is no point to continuing to swore the problem is not know we are in a problem of a face, a face saving and both in united states and in europe and, and, and don't are understood and i estimate europe in fact, so many sanctions for as an example many sanctions. that's where applied to russia . where in fact, made by the, by the, by do your opinions against the advice of the americans. like, for instance,

the sanctions about the old pro or products or even of hosting a rush out from the swift system. this was a, it was advised by the americans not to do that, but the you pins decided to do it. so no, we, we, we, we all know we in a, in a kind of, of us peril if you want. and nobody has the courage to stop it. and the we are and it is a kind of of, uh uh yes, it is a spiritual violence, not the violence, not yet, but the europeans are in fact engaging to that to listen to what the micro said. i mean, the ease, right, paid to sense troops even if its own population is against that. you don't think that's gonna happen though, right. i don't see any, you don't think basketball. that's a i'm not sure it will happen. but you know, the problem is that it's so you rational, it's almost impossible to say whether it's will or we'd not, not happen because we are no longer in a kind of rush. or if the,

the decision making in the west was, was the rational. we would have stopped that last year. in fact, you know, he's been here before clearly and as the book makes clear how they completely misunderstand the proxy war and what rushes responses to they through nation policy . why is it the major powers are so convinced? maybe it's just western european ones that against the advice of washington that say the ministry defense building in london or the count deposited in paris. what would be taken out by potomac miss out from russia? because the united because russian and the russian federation needs to make a boy and say, look, just cut it out. now we've had enough of this where i'm not sure exactly what, what you want to just continue with fraud ation. like as you said, macro, announcing the deployment of 2000 or the 1000 now french, foreign legion to ukraine. in defiance of what the, as the kremlin and the duma has been saying, i,

why are they so convinced the rush will not respond to any of these nato countries and tests that so called optical 5 as well. optical size is so if it is, is property and excluded upfront from that equation, by the way, because if, if uh, friends, find some sense troops. it's not based on the natal treaty, but on, but under bilateral treaty, which in fact doesn't based on the washington treaty. so in fact and, and, and the americans have, have said they would not send troops on the ground and probably they would try to avoid that. especially because they are in a presidential election year. and therefore it was, it was probably be not to be very wise to start a new war to engage the us actively in a war a, this started this period. so the, the, the americans don't want to do that. the, i think the,

the problem and the concern i have is that the, the recent a drawing toilets, a communication between france and, and u. k, especially with david cameron, a trying to have kind of a joints type of activity in ukraine. you know, if been in an effort to provoke the u. s. to intervene. that's, that's, is that what? because they could, that could lead to a situation where the americans had no choice but to intervene. how you doing things like that? exactly what, you know, the biden actually wants this uh 61000000000 to go through it would, it would help him because as defeat approach as well a to pounds, you can then say it was the republicans fault that we lost another war. after i've got assigned to syria and it'd be, are of iraq and uh, yeah, i'm, and then who knows what i, where else? i think biden would like to have those 61000000000 a for you. okay. your 1st of all, just emotionally,

because i think this conflict for biden is, is just a question of emotion. there is no nice thing, nothing. brushing all into that. the problem comes probably from other parts, including within the state department because they're, they're all different opinions about this. and apparently even, even we, we didn't to the state department. so i'm going to be just would like to stop the whole thing because he doesn't bring it in. and by the way, even depending on apparently, would probably not to be unhappy if, if this would stop because everybody sees the discount effect is going up. so, you know where he's probably, it's just reinforcing russia a, just an additional embarrassment for the president in fact. but the problem is that again, well, i come back on this point. we are not witnessing a rational decision making in the west,

and especially certainly not at the level of biden. and even at a, to my call, i'm even camera or on the property, and we'll shut off on the allow you and, and also the so called new your up. i'm talking about the baltic states and the boat and where you have people who are so enraged against russia, that in fact, whatever happens that would be happy as long as you times directions. and that's a, that's a, a, a kind of a desperate situation that we have, which is, in fact concerning because i come from the strategic asians background and my own working culture, if you won't, is that decision making should be rational. and based on the factor lanai says when what's going on on the ground. but what we have seen there in the last 2 years in, in the ukraine, shows that in fact,

no decision was really based on the factor analysis on the ground weight with just as it was based on assumptions. and even on a totally false narrative. i mean, a, wait, wait for 2 years we, we kept saying that the russians were losing the war. they had no immunization done . no thanks anymore. the ad pool commanders did, the soldiers didn't want to fight, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. and today we are exactly the opposite situation. well, just say that russia is about to attack. the rest of europe has more weapons than the rest of europe as low besides the rest of you and so on and so forth. so we are in the total contradiction with all sense and that in fact, nothing that we have heard in denied to you the last 2 years was based on any evidence. it was just based on even assumptions. kind of would love to talk about that like so far. the other book uh, hopefully when does this east wind garza so that kind of jack boat. thank you.

thank you. thank you very much. thank you for having me. thank you. and that's it for the show, continued condolences to those very by you k u. s. u, i'm bombing in palestine 11 and m and syria and iraq. the new books operational alexa fly, the defeat of the bank for sure, and the russian. a lot of war. how the west that ukraine defeats arrived. now we'll be back on monday with the us official who worked for obama clinton nixon, johnson and kennedy administrations. until then keep in touch, why will i social media if it's on sense of your country? and i draw a channel going on, they were on tv, hon dot com. don't you know that besides of going underground, see you monday, the and the world's largest democracy votes. the rest of the planet watches in an

emerging multi polar world. india's voice matters. but who will be the power behind watches, almost 1000000000 people decide and billions more, react, the no one else seemed wrong. just the safe house to conduct the application and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look for common ground, the of the