the, the i'm not sure there's not so you're welcome back to going underground, broke out single around the world from the middle east. what knew us? president johnson, nick's attention obama and by new 11 coming well, they have blood on their hands, a track record of death and destruction through and dimension in countries such as we have down bangladesh, cambodia, argentina, julie, palestine, you, i'm in syria, iraq. i've got a son packaged on libya, some obviously done, that's just naming a few between them. they're responsible for millions of debts around the world, and it continues today is incumbent president joe biden is scheduled to meet with the prime minister of iraq. a country has been bombing in the last few weeks alone . joining me now from washington dc as an official who served in the obama clinton nixon, johnson and kennedy administrations. he was director of the task was to produce the pentagon papers that exposed us in,

dimension and be at the it was the late daniel as well. you can watch our studio interview with him on going underground and rumble. who famously leaks impending defeats in vietnam. dr. morrison, how for it is currently the advisory council chair of advocacy group j straight. thank you so much, dr. albert bye, right. coming on, you know, it's more than 5 years since british authorities capture julian assange in london because they are interviews with him and one of his grades of support as well as daniels bag. the late down those book like understand was your friend to see what's uh, you know, before we go to the current state of, well, the terrible state of the world. give me just remind us of how many, perhaps millions of lives you. and then in a way together, saved in the former endo china. it's very good to know how to trainers to count the uses opinion the papers itself. and that shouldn't be war loans. nobody read them

and the war continued and infected fix it escalated to pour it to the reset. the pedagogy papers, what didn't end up ending more was work 8 and one cake was employed created because of mixes dismay and distrust. then ellsberg. he was afraid of creating papers about his administration and was going to release them and therefore was trying to silence hillsburg and then went to the plumbers to break in his pain psychiatrist's office and then to other actions which eventually led to woody gate. and that the congress cause to find the v. is it more? and that's a millions of lives close to where we're going on. if not $48.00 to the end of the grease, the end of the next administration, and probably be on. so that was literally a domino effect coming from your assessment through to dallas. but i mean, presume we do support like apparently so go mainstream media or in the united

states, although they don't give it that much prominence. the release of julian, i sondra banner, the vitamins being pictured perhaps not really understanding what the question was from a journalist that considering the stopping the persecution of the way he makes publisher . they want to stop in yes. village was, it is written, should not apply to any actions relating to release of information to the privacy the by company officials will bind and certainly by the presence of your science. persecution was the 1st time the history of united states that somebody, it was not a government official, has been indicted for violating the screen on deck for doing things that gave information to the public. and i think these as we actually was, would be unconstitutional if it covered that it would be for to go. and we don't need any statute punishing. then we need more information given to the press that

attempts to stop daily because it's so detrimental to the bible presidency. why do you think he's doing it? maybe it's something related to that story. you just told me about the pentagon papers is bible expect to julian assign somehow to have secret papers that will impact on november's election. what is the purpose of ruining the united states has reputation internationally for actually not really having a 1st amendment where the paper it's written on really, i think it started with obama. is responsible for this whole expansion of the espionage work to cover and things related to giving information to the press and then was continued onto the truck. but i think by the ministration just inherited an ongoing and it seems seems to continue with. and that way that they gave me much consideration, but i think now concerned much more about the tax and they have some the west and

issues that excite people in the way that the vote for boy. and i think they're looking for things to do that can help them with that a year with a combined voters, and one of the things would be to trap the sun persecution. i'll get onto the circle left at a level when we get there to get to gaza. but uh, what was your opinion then of uh, the jack texerra case tex early pentagon papers that you are the, by the ministration use of lensky is the so called counter offensive would fail. the british soldiers were in ukraine. you agree that the jacks, etc. shouldn't have been prosecuted under the espionage act. he got 716 years. as i said, i think the jack has written these 4 to grade the cover information we to the press and i'm not sure we should have a statute. general recovery that would cameras is done in certain fields like a ton mccain. and she liked the names of corporate engines,

like communications. intelligence has created separate narrowly drawn statues that cover those categories and information and make it a crime. to publish that kind of information. i think that's the way to hear the problem with the general espionage said she would take covers more information at the company to try to keep secret. as things go, it was, it was something we know. edward snowden says now a mass surveillance, and i'll get onto your stuff, isn't it in a moment? did you not tell your boss is a bother and then clinton about your worries of this whitening use of a little to prevent the american public from understanding other government work? well, clinton didn't do any of it, so we solve him for that. we could talk about other issues and bottom administration. i was on the board of some because my new challenge corporation. so i think that have an opportunity to raise these kinds of issues with present it to

anybody in the industry or. okay, well of you adults clinton, i'm sure some people will talk about the yugoslav war in that regard. just as you could see, what happened to information during that war, let's get onto kissinger. i should say. he threatened me once on the phone, but i'm not sure why. tell me why your boss, henry kissinger, the lady henry kissinger, was bugging your phone. he was your boss. well, i was working for him on the national security council staff and me up tires close to story saying that the united states were seriously bombing cambodia. and providing some of the details about how the board was being carried out. the next thing was curious because he was trying to keep the bottom a secret. he sort of became public. so it did outcry that he was expanding the war and that he would be forced to stop on. so he talked to them over take over that

your hoover chosen his solution to every solution to everything was wired. so hoover told them where to find that it was ricky his to words have. so it makes it talk, isn't your figure out what to say? it might be during the weekend and give those names to whoever, where they're going to tap those people actually make some gateway. they could cases, you gave my name because he's what i read the story because he switched over and mix it. so what i read the story in the way to protect himself looks to give my name to the appeal. but what a lovely, lovely man, no cost kissing jad big doubts about the ukraine conflict before he he died. you, however, are as hawkish has ever on that you think that the united states endangered it's national security. if zalinski doesn't win the war i do,

i was seeing the clinton administration when we were urging the, the ukraine government to keep up its nuclear weapons. you remember when the soviet union fell upon nuclear weapons at several states said this new independent states when we put so we one of those was ukraine, which had a substantial number of nuclear weapons, new training. and so we wanted to give it up and we got together with the russians, harrison i have to give up the new cri with this to turn it back to russian pending return rusher and the united states both promised that we would defend them because pay return plan the state, there was a nuclear weapons power, and of course they happened and we have not. we chosen that's in the troops, which i understand. but i think we move in military equipment and support so that they can preserve their independence. yeah,

but it is really to do in the us security why over the dead bodies of ukrainians? and as for that, a nuclear weapon deal, which happened while you were working there in the clinton administration. you think victoria and you live within the range? the 2014 qu is mean fluid from that. the phone cool. if you crane had nuclear weapons, russia would have moved much more swiftly, arguably to protect the people in east and ukraine. don't you think? i'm not sure how you sort of rules and nuclear weapons and that's useful. no status . you ever figured out? i'd actually use that to paid state policy interest. so i'm not sure it would be the difference. so i thought that's why you were, you were mentioning it in that regard. but i think the fundamental question is annoyed. austin was saying congress in the past few days. look, this is about helping the industrial base of the united states as much. and that's a quote from him, as it is about ukraine. don't you think the rest of the world,

which clearly is trading with russia? most of the world is ignoring these nato nations sanctions. they think if the united states really seriously thinks what happens in ukraine is a threat to be american people, the american military should be fighting their rather than the making the ukrainian a generation of ukrainians die for this one. i don't think we're making the creative use, i think. so i can tell the war is supported by the vast majority of the creed. people who do not want to be part of russia and are volunteering and fighting. i'm going to number is i think the united states always in the support and to fight floor because they didn't care things which is fine to be part of a brochure in the united states is not having an interest separate from your grades and keep them keep the russians how green river report suggested that as

a one to 10 fatality ratio and this conflict discussion rates are rocketing any your every european city as will of ukrainians are fighting ages of uh uh, i'll give you a left left the country. so you are a firm believer that the $61000000000.00 will make all the difference to the war effort, even though the fed lloyd often, i think even said the $61000000000.00 is recycled to arms companies in the united states. there's a lensky, we'll get any of that money for a few months yet, even if it didn't locate the rooms, the design is easy to get the web. it's what we're listening to saying is we use the money to buy weapons. so american weapons, manufacturers protect ship those weapons to create so they hit the weapons and money and the tech stays in the united states. we simply bought

a weapons and then shipped him to crate. don't to help. i'll stop you. the law from beef over official in the obamacare into nixon johnson and you have gave ministrations after this break the and the world's largest democracy votes, the rest of the planet watchers in an emerging multi polar world. india's voice matters, but who will be the power behind watches, almost 1000000000 people decide and billions more, react the the, the

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with fuller official to the category johnson nixon sent in 100 bomber administration. the card advisory council, chair of j street, doctor morton help her and a dr. alber and you were talking about how important it is to continue the war in ukraine. why do you think it is that, i mean, we had the reagan official on the show, the other week, a former assistant secretary defense telling us, you know, if necessary the united states would use its nuclear weapons,

rems tinetta base if it became necessary. so important is ukraine. why do you believe that russia is interested in invading poland to front? so britain, at that seems to be the kind of thing i have to be blinking says on a regular basis. if you, if you let them go into your grade and he's going to take over paris by next year, you're really much more about the baltic states. and i do about why would you want to take finland? seriously? i mean, russia is the line i sent this to you, i for you. and with wayne, you and those dates were part of the so we know sylvia junior high, they broke where to a some of the before the breakup of associated you appointment, shown in, in georgia. i had elsewhere around his boys page not satisfied with the boys that we joined during the breakup of the soviet union. and i think he will continue to

push until we stop full purpose res purposes, to re recreate soviet employer. i think he, you know, he said the reason great mistake the greatest mistake of a century was for so union to allow this states to break or for inform separate companies that there won't quarter when they should very close at hand, that he has a secret obligation to try to reach to reset, and i think he will push adobe stuff. well, he always has as, as not the goal. but do you don't see that there are echoes of what you're saying there about a present day russian veneration. and what the b nixon administration of the johnson i'm kennedy administration said about how important the war vietnam was. and the bolton size was nixon by the address of a destroying cambodia. do you don't see any echoes of that?

the truth here is it is always difficult to tell whether wars one, it's trustworthy that when it was one that is in the american interest to side with that. and that is an issue that has to be faced and reserved every case. but the fact that one concludes that the via, the more was not just for reason i don't, well, we can win because we run the wrong side. does not mean that ukrainian war is the one that we can read. and there's not a trustee. it may be that it's also around just more projects as separately about each more. and it's not the case that no worries, no worries friday and it's not the case. there rewards for slightly. so each one has to be taken on its own merits. of course, of course, but then we now have the revelations of the c i a had bases in ukraine ahead of

time. we have the cool about victoria newland talking to jeffrey pos. what was happening in 2014, if russia or china started putting the secret intelligence spaces on the mexican border of the united states, would the united states be justified in a, in a balancing into mexico to take them out. i mean, i need the context is slightly different because of course they were russian speakers being persecuted and east and ukraine. i don't think we would have the right to go in to mexico. and i think it was a mistake to explain that i was against deal expansion. greer wasn't mistaken. country to insurance is 3, a give it to russia? well, we're happy to see you, i'm sure, but it's a beautiful. and i think we should have made a deal if we could have that entirely clear whether it was past reservation that

you create with that become part of a, of that data with that station, any over in military forces or create this code. well, why don't know why not have peace talks now to end the was it landscapes made it an eagle to have peace negotiations that were of course ones in his temple. why do you just support more weaponry? being born in dogs and diesel? i'm always in favor of exploring and i see what even the war and i would certainly be in favor of offering the russians and agreement techniques that you create with that become part of the day. you know, they don't, without station forces in ukraine and you over it forces with quite this and forces and that the weight, sorry, i know how this is exactly what the russian said they wanted this me. this is, you know what you're saying? there's nothing more than just in the independence of ukraine. your original jack,

when they started to work, is to capture bruno of ukraine. no, i the where are you getting that from? because the objective always since the minutes records was for a neutral ukraine just as you've outlined there. now of course, the russian veneration says, look, it's too late because clearly these western pads got be trusted and they need to buffers. but even then, i don't know, maybe they are open a little food and says is he wants negotiation and it's now too late to negotiation . now gives me because previous negotiations of mean double crossed, never to wait to the rotations. i think it was clear that even with the capture of ukraine, it's similar to ukraine's expected and president of ukraine. no was debating whether to leave the country open trade or want the crew for that please. right now we're, we're, you're lot read. i think it is time to start to war. and as i said,

i think some concessions, some should be made to soviet security. johnson slow currently ran and getting it that much was deal and they could have before arguably. and as i said, roger is made it, terry, did they ever had any interest in taking? ukraine does not start with the let's go to that other war. the by the ministration is involved in the weapon ising and boring millions of dollars, annoying zelinski as well because the landscape is the same. the weapons that we're headed, his way of going to be sent to nothing. yahoo! why do you think the bible to ministration is continuing to pull weapons into israel to, to, to bomb gaza when it doesn't help him elect truly. it doesn't help him into nationally in terms of reputation. it doesn't help the united states is reputation . a and a part for me, i suppose some profit making by weapons companies in the united states that say

anthony blinking consulted for and lloyd austin worked for what is the advantage of continuing to send 2000 pound booms. and that's in yahoo. well, publicly saying don't, don't use them. i don't know. i think it's a major mistake. said those words. and i think the united states needs to make it clear that it does not support a new invasion and to god's advantage weapons cannot be anything we support cannot be used for that purpose. and that it's time to pick out the borders of when you made a terry assistance, the surgery we needed and i st. binders. now finally beginning to push in that direction or the serious way. and i think here 0 is will at least some of comply with that because they all have to pay the support. well, mind story about appear rather than any great success with the tonnage of food

coming in. but you didn't really answer me. why is he doing this then? what does that mean? you being in these administrations? what, what are the, what are the conflicting conversations in the oval office about such an obedience? if you have, you know, bring this community to life, believing that israel should be supported, believing that it's right to exist. it's clearly thoughts. but clearly the political pressure in that direction. it's always been the case up until about that. the pressure on president was the support issue and it's no, it's dramatically in the category chain. and i think by does not get caught up. but i think pay now in standards beginning to move in that direction. a debit is too late, isn't it? for the international reputation, these cases will continue legally. obviously, you know, it's, uh,

he's meeting with the rocky prime minister. i'll see donny while if he's bombing iraq in the past few weeks. obviously, britain in the united states, the bombing human for us, all of their already action for their shipping and biographer, israel in goods, tell me about the modeling old right. what, what, why did to your point you direct your policy planning on through print and it was a little bright, is famous in this region of west asia, for thing a, it was a price was paying when 500000 maybe children were killed by us sanctions on iraq, i'm not familiar with that quote. i don't know why she picked me. i knew were right known or for years. and people in our staff were there were some people to see if we're very close to me and i think very soon with me. but she never said i got a quote or the asking whether i really accept a job, a policy planning direction or if i was offered. and i said that would and because

we have that all the right of us, we don't, we are. what did it feel like when didn't and bomb, the chinese embassy in belgrade, and i handed the total destruct break up of yugoslavia. you were there, was you a fever of intervention costs, but not the obviously, bombing, the chinese embassy and remember cookie. i never was able to get to the bottom of what, what that was the way that somebody deliberately did. and if so, for what reason. but i think the intervention desktop, what was the piano side up against the cause of all babies and was justified. and i think with the policy side, we went ahead, but if you are willing to recognize cause of us are then you have no problem with delight to be a proof. and recognizing graham you, a lot of the russian federation, the thing was new. there was no ongoing

effort play the part of the, of the government of ukraine to massacre and drive out the russian speakers where you can try me. i think the right people to break away from the government is condition going to be mastercard underway or we have a you don't have a problem with referendums. in this case, i have to realign view is it was nato bombing. and then i some unilaterally against the international community and against any un resolution, recognizing cause or some kind of separate country and then imposing a referendum where indeed they voted the way the washington like isn't very, are there any similarities between what that is and what the russian government thinking reasons using mistake to recognize the independence. because though the agreement was, the customer would come under the un security kansas supervision in the future to

determine negotiations among the interesting parts, including the surgeon and the cost of her paintings and subject to approval by the security council. and i think the decision to clear customs on independence and to recognize that independence wasn't mistaken. a violation of the security council resolution, which way to the security council supervising, comfortable, and i great, very much. yeah. well, most countries, i don't think really recognize it today except western european ones, but then do you think and clearly you voice concerns about donald trump's election? what's your view about his political persecution? as he says, it's leading opposition leader in the polls and on the cost of jail all the time, every other week from pauses and political authorities allied to the by the justice

department. as far as the you hear from the trump campaign, what do you think that looks like to the rest of the world? because it's trump, who's being done with under the espionage act we spoke of earlier. you will use using logic. again, same is different because it's for a mess handling of classified information, not giving it to the press, but simply storing it where it shouldn't be stored and refusing to return it when you're asked to return it. but it's a separate crime and it's one that doesn't comprise the 1st amendment issues. the way the assigned case starts. but i think there are genuine issues. and i think dislikes it's not in the field visit where she winds people to say what needs to be very careful about going down to pay us trying to invite sonya presidents. i think that's very dangerous. i but you're more comfortable with the january

60 day than i am with the doctor more than to help her and thank you. thank you and that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to the survivors of u. s. u k. you nation, i'm kidding. in palestine, syria, him and 11 in the round of the rock will be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then came in touch. my role as social media results sense in your country and had to have channel going on the ground tv on rumble, dot com to let you know the episodes of going underground. so you said that the the hello and welcome to class stuff boulevard. here we discussed some real in the

this was like a reading wall, and i mean, this is a declaration of war. the spiral of retaliation is around content based xavier as well as the wrong. we kind of puts the sack wrong conducted as the buttons. but this is really s bike parts close to the civic for ron did not respond to it would increase the possibility of both because they would make israel more aggressive process says the west has exposed his own hip hop for seems like and that me or ron for his, with how the agent i'll remain silent about is williams initial that the attack a new wrong comfortable decade ago ukraine declared is input most said pulled antiques.