that's fine. thank you. thank you. thank you for joining our surface program life from most go. we are back at the top of the hour with more of your news the . i'm ask your time, so you're welcome back to going underground, broke out single, around the world from the middle east. what knew us? president johnson nixon, kenton obama, and by new 11 coming well, they have blood on their hands, a track record of death and destruction through and dimension in countries such as we have down bangladesh, cambodia, argentina, julie, by this time you have been serial rock. i've got a son focused on libya, some obviously done, that's just naming a few between them. they're responsible for millions of debts around the world, and it continues today is incumbent president joe biden is scheduled to meet with the prime minister of iraq. a country has been bombing in the last few weeks alone

. joining me now for most of the d. c. as an official who served in the obama clinton nixon, johnson and kennedy administration. he was director of the task was to produce the pentagon papers that exposed us in dimension in vietnam. it was the late daniel as well. you can watch our studio interview with him on going underground on rumble. who famously leaks impending defeats in vietnam. dr. martin helper and is currently the advisory council chair of advocacy group j straight. thank you so much, dr. albert, if i were coming on, you know, it's more than 5 years since british authorities captured julian, his sons in london because they are interviews with him. and one of his grades of support is, was daniel's bag. the late down those book like understand was your friend to see was uh, you know, before we go to the, the current state as well to a terrible state of the world. give me just remind us of how many, perhaps millions of lives you. and then in a way together, saved in the former endo china. it's very hard to know and it triggers to count

that uses opinion of the papers itself. did not show it in the war loans, nobody read them and the war continued and infected fix it escalated the corps after the recent, the pedagogy of papers. what did end up ending the war was located and where the gate was employed created because of nixon's display in distrust of daniel's birth . he was afraid to agree, i had papers about his administration and was going to release them and they have always tried to silence hillsburg. and that way to the plumbers, to break in its 10 psychiatrist's office. and then to the reactions which eventually led toward the gate and then to congress cutting off the funding for the more. and that's a millions of lives close to what would have caught on if not for the gate to the end of grease the end of the next in ministration and probably be on. so that was

literally a domino effect coming from your assessment through to dallas. but i mean, presume we do support like apparently so go mainstream media or in the united states, although they don't give it that much prominence. the release of julian, i sondra banner, the vitamins being pictured, perhaps not really understanding what the question was from a journalist that considering stopping the persecution of the way he makes publisher. they were to stop in the espionage wars because it is written should not apply to any action relating to release of information to the proceed the by government officials will blank certainly by the press itself. your size persecution was the 1st time the history that states that somebody, it was not a government official has been indicted for violated. yes. we know that for doing things that gave information to the public. and i think the last thing i said was

would be unconstitutional. if it covered that it would be for to go and we don't need any statute punishing that. we need more information given to the press that attempts to stop daily because it's so detrimental to the bible presidency. why do you think he's doing it? maybe it's something related to that story you just told me about. the pentagon papers is bible expect to julian, it's on somehow to have secret papers that will impact on november's election. what is the purpose of ruining the united states has reputation internationally for actually not really having a 1st amendment where the paper it's written on me. i think it started with obama. is responsible for this whole expansion of the espionage work to cover and things related to giving information to the press and then was continued onto the truck. but i think by the ministration just inherited an ongoing and it seems seems

to continue with. and that way that they gave me much consideration, but i think they're now concerned much more about the tax and they have some the west and issues that excite people in the way that the vote for boy. and i think they're looking for things to do that can help them with that a year with a cool white voters. it's one of the things would be to try the sun persecution. i'll get onto the circle left at the moment when we get there to get to gaza. but uh, what was your opinion then of uh, the jack texerra case tex early pentagon papers that you are the by the administration user. lensky is the so called counter offensive would fail. the british soldiers were in ukraine. you agree that jack texera should have been prosecuted under the espionage act to god 716 years. as i said, i think the jag has written these 4 to read the cover information

we to the press and i'm not sure we should have a statute. general recovery that would congress is done in certain feels like a complicated cheese, like the names of covered engines, like communications, intelligence has created separate, narrowly drawn statues. they cover those categories of information and make it a crime. to publish that kind of information. i think that's the way to either of them with a general, as much as you take covers more information that the company just try to keep secret. as things go, it was, it was something we know. edward snowden says now a mass surveillance, and i'll get onto your system, isn't it in a moment? did you not tell your boss is a bother and clinton about your worries of this whitening use of a little to prevent the american public from understanding other government work? no. clinton didn't do any of it, so we solve him for that. we could talk about other issues and bottom

administration. i was on the board upset because my new challenge corporation. so i think that have an opportunity raise these kinds of issues with present it to anybody in the industry. okay. well, have you absolved clinton? i'm sure some people talk about the yugoslav war in that regard. just as you could see, what happened to information during that war. let's get onto kissinger. i should say. he threatened me once on the phone. i'm not sure why. tell me why your boss, henry kissinger, the lady henry kissinger, was bugging your phone. he was your boss. well, i was working for him on the national security cancer staff in new tires close to story saying that the united states was seriously bombing cambodia and providing some of the details about how the board was being carried out. the next thing was curious because he was trying to keep the bottom

a secret. he sort of 50 k who is going to be it outright and he was expanding the war and he re forced to stop on. so he took them over take over that. yes, the hoover chosen his solution to every solution to everything was word so because in order to find that it was ricky his toward that. so makes it talk, isn't your figure out what to say? it might be during the weekend and give those names to whomever we've been going to tap those people. i think next some gateway, they could cases you gave my name because he's what i read the story because he switched over and mix it. so i agreed the story in the way to protect himself looks to give my name to the appeal. but what a lovely, lovely man, no cost kitchens. you had big doubts about the ukraine conflict before he he died. you, however, are as hawkish as ever on that you think that the united states and endangers its

national security. if zalinski doesn't win the war, i do. i always seem to clinton administration. when we were urging the, the ukraine government to give up its nuclear weapons, you remember when the soviet union fell upon nuclear weapons at several of the states of this new independent states, when we put so even you and one of those was ukraine, which had a substantial number of nuclear weapons, new training and where we looked at to give it up. and we got it together with the russians. originated to give up the new key with this to turn the back to russian pending return rusher. and the united states both promised that we would defend them because they were tact playing the state. there was a nuclear weapons power, and of course they happened. and we have 9. we chose and that's in their own troops,

which i understand. but i think we move in military equipment and support so that they can preserve their independence. yeah. but it is really to do in the us security. why over the dead bodies of ukrainians? and as for that nuclear weapon deal, which happened while you were working there in the clinton administration, you think victoria knew little of the range? the 2014 qu is mean fluid from that. the drone cool. if you crane had nuclear weapons, russia would have moved much more swiftly, arguably to protect the people in east and ukraine. don't you think? i'm not sure how you sort of those that nuclear weapons and that's usable. we've no state is you ever figured out how to actually use it to the page the policy entries . so i'm not sure what the difference. so i thought that's why you were, you were mentioning it in that regard. but i think the fundamental question is annoyed. austin was saying, congress in the past few days. look,

this is about helping the industrial base of the united states as much, and that's a quote from him as it is about ukraine. don't you think the rest of the world, which clearly is trading with russia? most of the world is ignoring these nato nation sanctions. they think if the united states really seriously thinks what happens in ukraine is a threat to the american people, the american military should be fighting their rather than the making the ukrainian a generation of ukrainians die for this. i don't think we're making the creative use. i think so as i can tell, the war is supported by the vast majority of the creed. people who do not want to be part of russia are volunteering and fighting the launch number is, i think the united states always in the support and to fight more because they

didn't care things which is fine to be part of a brochure in the united states. is not having an interest separate from your grades and keep them keep the russian. so green river report suggested that as a one to 10 fatality ratio in this conflict, desertion rates are rocketing any your every european city is one of ukrainians, a fighting age. that of a uh, i'll give you a left left the country. so you are a firm believer that the $61000000000.00 will make all the difference to the war effort, even though the fed lloyd austin. i think even said the 61000000000 is recycled. to arms companies in the united states as a landscape, we'll get any of that money for a few months. yet, even if it didn't locate the rooms designed to seem to get to work, it's what we're listening to saying is we use the money to buy weapons of american

weapons. manufacturers protect ship those reference to ukraine. so they hit the weapons, and money in effect stays in the united states. we simply bought a weapons and then ship him to create. i don't to help and i'll stop you there. more from beef over officially in the obamacare into nixon johnson. and you have gave ministrations after this break the the, what is part of the is it that the employee would post to isn't the defense you was input in the word or is it something deeper, more complex might be present? let's stop without cases. let's go to the product.

when the world's largest democracy votes the rest of the planet watchers in an emerging multi polar world, india's voice matters. but who will be the power behind watches, almost 1000000000 people decide and billions more, react the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with fuller officials because it'd be johnson nixon sent in a 100 bomber administrations the card advisory council chair of j street. doctor martin helper and a dr. alber and you were talking about how important it is to continue the war in ukraine. why do you think it is that, i mean, we had the reagan official on the show, the other week, a former assistant secretary defense telling us, you know, if necessary,

the united states would use its nuclear weapons, rams tinetta base if it became necessary. so important is ukraine. why? i mean, do you believe that russia is interested in invading poland or from so britain at that seems to be the kind of thing i have to be blinking says on a regular basis. if you, if you let them go into your grade and he's going to take over paris by the next year, there were a much more about the baltic states. and i do about why would you want to take finland? seriously? i mean, russia has a lot of history right for you. and with wayne, you and those states were part of the so we know silvia union, they broke away actually some of them before the breakup of so he put in a shown and in georgia and elsewhere around his boys. he's not satisfied with the borders that were joined during the breakup of the soviet union,

and i think he will continue to push until we stop for what purpose, res, purposes, to re recreate soviet empire. i think he, you know, you said it was a great mistake, the greatest mistake of a century was for. so you need to go out of this space to break or for inform separate companies that there won't quarter when they should have or he close at hand. that he has a secret obligation to try to reach to reset and i think he will push until at least well he always is as, as not the goal. but you don't see that there are echoes of what you're saying there about a present day. russian veneration. and what the, the nixon administration of the johnson i'm kennedy administration said about how important the war vietnam was. and the bolton size was nixon by the address of

a destroying cambodia. do you don't see any echoes of that? the truth is it is always difficult to tell whether wars one it's trust or not when it was one that is in the american interest to fight with that. and that is an issue that has to be faced to resume every case. but the fact that one concludes that the via, the more was not just for reason i don't, well, we can win because we run the wrong side. does not mean that ukrainian war is the one that we can read. and there's not a trust for the may be that it's also around just more because you asked separately about each more. and it's not the case that no worries, no worries friday. hey, that's not the case. there rewards for slightly. so each one has to be taken on its own merits, of course, of course. but then we now have the revelations of the c. i a had bases in ukraine

ahead of time. we have the cool about victoria newland talking to jeffrey pos. what was happening in 2014, if russia or china started putting the secret intelligence spaces on the mexican border of the united states, would the united states be justified in the, in the advancing into mexico to take them out. i mean, i need the context aside. be different because of course they were russian speakers being persecuted in east and ukraine. i don't think we would have the right to go into mexico. and i think it was a mistake to explain they always against their expansion. greer was mistaken, caught her ga insurance, is 3 a give it to russia. well, what we're happy to see you a tribute to be uniform and i think we should have made a deal if we could have that entirely clear whether it was past reservation that

you create would love to come by the video that nato would. that station any overt military forces or create this code? well, why not know why not have peace talks now? to end the was the landscapes made it an eagle to have peace negotiations that were of course the ones in his temple. why do you just support more weaponry being born in the visuals? i'm always in favor of exploring possibilities and the war. and i would certainly be in favor of offering the russians in agreement that these events you create with that become part of the day. you know, they are with that station forces in your crate and you over it forces with quite a dozen forces and that the weight, sorry, i know how, but this is exactly what the russians said. they want to dismiss. to see, you know, what usa is, what the, what was the in the independence if you train your original object when they

started to work this the captured bruno of ukraine? no, i the where are you getting that from? because the objective always since the minutes records was for a neutral ukraine just as you've outlined there. now, of course, the russian veneration says, look, it's too late because clearly these western pads got be trusted and they need to buffers a. but even then i don't know, maybe they are open old food and says he wants negotiation and it's now too late to negotiation. now gives me because previous negotiations of mean double crossed, never too late rotations. so i think it was clear that he wanted to capture on a few crate that's in there with ukraine's expected and president of ukraine. no was debating whether to leave the country or when i'm trying to go on to korea. but i remember that page right now, where were you? i mean, i think it is time to start to work. and as i said,

i think some concessions. some should be be soviet security concern slow, currently ran and getting it that much was deal and they could have before arguably . and as i said, roger is made it clear that they haven't had any interest in taking ukraine does not start with the let's go to that other war. the by the ministration is involved in the weapon ising and boring millions of dollars, annoying zalinski as well, because the landscape is the saying, the weapons that we're headed, his way of going to be sent to nothing. yahoo! why do you think the biden administration is continuing to pull weapons into israel to, to, to bum gaza when it doesn't help him elect? truly. it doesn't help him into nationally in terms of reputation. it doesn't help the united states is reputation. a and a part for me, i suppose, some profit making by weapons companies in the united states that say anthony

blinking consulted for and lloyd doors can work for what is the advantage of continuing to send 2000 pound booms to and that's in yahoo. well, publicly saying, don't, don't use them. i don't know. i think it's a major mistake. said those words. and i think the united states needs to make it clear that it does not support a new invasion to cause damage. weapons cannot be human. anything we support cannot be used for that purpose, and that it's time to open up the borders of when you made a terry assistance this surgery we needed. and i think by miss now finally beginning to push in that direction is a serious way. and i think he is really is really at least some of comply with that because they all have to pay the burg support. well,

mine's don't even appear rather than any great success with the tonnage of food coming in, but you didn't really on so me why is he doing this then? what does that mean? you being in these administrations? what, what are the, what are the conflicting conversations in the oval office about such an audience is, have you bring this community to life believing that you should be supported believing, then it's right to exist in scro you thoughts? but feeling the political pressure in that direction. i mean, it's always been the case up until now, but the pressure on president was to support issue and it's no, it's dramatically particularly teaching. and i think by this when i get caught up right now in standards, beginning to move in that direction. a debit is too late, isn't it? for the international reputation,

these cases will continue legally. obviously, you know, it's, uh, he's meeting with the rocky prime minister. i'll see donnie a while if he's bombing iraq in the past few weeks. obviously, britain in the united states bombing human for us all of their already action for their shipping and biographers. railing goods. tell me about modeling old bright what. what, why did you point new director policy planning under clinton? it was a little bright, is famous in this region of west asia for thing it was a price was paying when $500000.00 maybe children were killed by us sanctions on iraq. i'm not familiar with that quote, i don't know why she picked me. i you are right known or for years and people are a staff were there were some people receive very close to me and i think thursday reported me that. but she never said i got a quote or the asking whether i really except to try the policy planning direction

or if i was offered. and i said that would. and because we have that all the right of us, we don't, we are. what did it feel like when didn't and bomb, the chinese embassy in belgrade, and i handed the total destruct break up of yugoslavia. you were there and was there a fever of intervention? it costs but not the obviously, bombing, the chinese embassy and remember cookie. i never was able to get to the bottom of what, what that was, whether somebody to work with be busy and if so for what reason, what i think the intervention to stop. what was the site up against the customer? well, baby was justifying. i think the policy certainly went ahead, but if you're willing to recognize the cost of those or then you have no problem with letting me approve in recognizing crime you a lot of the russian federation the things knew there was no

ongoing effort. the part of the, of the government of ukraine, to massacre and dried out the russian speaker, so that he can try me. i think the right people to break away from the government, please condition going to be mastercard underway. we have a, you don't have a problem with referendums, and in this case, i have to rely on view as it was nato bombing. and then i some unilaterally against the international community and against any un resolution, recognizing cause or some kind of separate country. and then imposing a referendum where indeed they voted the way the washington like isn't very, are there any similarities between what that is and what the mesh and government taking reasons. usually mistake to recognize the independence because of the

agreement was the customer would come under the un security kansas supervision and the future. so determined by negotiations among the interested products, including the service and the costs of her paintings and subject to approval by the security council. and i think the decision to declare customer independence and to recognize that independence wasn't mistaken. a violation of the security council resolution, which way to the security council supervising? comfortable, and are great, pretty much it sounds to me. yeah. well, most countries, i don't think really breakfast isaac today except western european ones, but then do you think and clearly you voice concerns about donald trump's election? what's your view about his political persecution? as he says, it's leading opposition leader in the polls and on the cost of,

of jail all the time, every other week from pauses and political authorities allied to the by the justice department. as far as the you hear from the trump campaign, what do you think that looks like to the rest of the world? because it's trump, who's being done from under the espionage act we spoke of earlier. you will use using the g get seem is different because it's for a mess handling of classified information, not giving it to the press, but simply storing it where it can be stored and refusing to return when you're asked to return it. but it's a separate crime and it's one that doesn't comprise the 1st amendment issues. the way the assigned case starts. but i think there are genuine issues. and i think dislikes it's true in the field, visit lecture lines, people to the fact that when we used to be very careful about going down the page i was trying to indict. so the president's,

i think pets. very dangerous. but i'd much more comfortable with the january 60 day than i am with the doctor more than a helper and thank you. thank you. i and that's up in the show. i'll continue condolences to the survivors of u. s. u k. you nation, i'm kidding. in palestine, syria, yep, and 11 in the around that iraq will be back with a brand new episode on saturday. and you'll then keep in touch my role as social media, if it's not sent to your country and have to have channel going on the ground tv on rumbled up. com to let you know the episodes are going underground. so you said that the the hello and welcome to across the board. here we discuss and we'll in the

the speakers found hold the data center. they cannot musicians, the west and consumer shoot. appreciate these, let me republicans to run through strain. i'm responsible actions toward disability and safety in the region as concerns the balance of and even broad a war rough thing in the middle east. and rob says the west to be praising as measured response to israel, not condemning it. and we get feedback in the program or from a jewish iranian m p. the seat and is right there. the idea if we use it strikes on god the following. and the idea of relative con, displaced palestinians trying to return to what's left of that homes in the north. they all of a sudden find themselves directly.