a ruse, shed light on the atrocities announced a numerous questions that have remained an onset for many years. watch on see the i'm action or sense. you're welcome back to going under ground broke. i was to go around the world from west asia. what summer? cooling a 3rd world war widens limits mass censorship in nato nations of news information. and i'll give me a jump skin propaganda model and steroids with britain on the us bombing human in iraq and us proxies. bombing, syria and palestine, i'm living in expressing defense isn't that would be more difficult. i mean, it stay declining american empire joining us onto of wiki leaks tortured in britain, his maps. and it would be more emblematic of the savagery of a dying hedge them on. and i guess today assuming the former boss of the c,

i a over him since the 7th of october, a john list, all media worker is being killed every 2 days in the gaza genocide alone. and israel is even killing po, it's charles. las is an award winning foreign correspondent. these common conflict in palestine, lebanon, syria, iraq, to somalia, and every trainer in western europe is they just broke his soul. just don't go mad about poets and he joins me now from florence initially. jobs good to see you again. um obviously there's been so much kidding and gaza just this week. well i guess initially and invest in your a bit talking about retaliation against iran and a poet in god's a refund. that area was killed in december of just before we go into the events of this week and world war 3 arguably, uh, tell me about soldiers go, go mad, reflect wasn't a soldier, but in world war one, soldiers were boats. as many soldiers were probably, it was

a very well educated generation, particularly among the officers class. they were raised on sheets or cakes, and shelley and other famous british power, shakespeare, milson, they could quote the metal legs, some particularly colored like rubber grays, or stickers assume or wilford all or all of them were officers in british army in the war and all of them suffered something called shell shot, which we now call post traumatic stress disorder. my book is really about the fact that the war had on those band were treated in a particular mental hospital called to create lockhart was students or officers where seek for existing maxwell sit on one hand together. they improve each other's poetry and also help each other to mental recovery is an exhaustive book about that . what we now cool. b s. d. but do you think wilford owens assume being red via

said the british ambassador to the un let alone linda told me is greenfield of the u. s. when they refused to veto that? sorry, they've veto resolution ceasefire resolutions at the un security council because i don't know what you've been thinking as you've been promoting the book, perhaps as well as we hear the what a 100000 perhaps killed or wounded? mostly women and children, not soldiers in the gaza. strip or i don't know what different match reading these days, certainly in the past they wouldn't read so. so now live in m graves, the soonest potentially relevant here, because he was urging a diplomatic resolution of the 1st world more much as people are urging at an end to the smouldering browser through negotiations and diplomacy. rather than continue blush, it, he wrote a protest about the war and he felt that the british war aims for distributors that

they were really fighting for imperial gain to france was fighting to take parts of germany that um the germans structured in the world, 8070 and that and then they were not really defending freedom, but they were actually killing young men like systems, entire generation, in order to achieve their imperialistic pain. it would be worth reading that protest today, i think because that was wise to assume was sent to mental work rather than court martian and put the war on trial suit was a very prominent co. it's in a very prominent person from a very distinguished background of the same to a medical student, much of the soviet union used to send people to mental hospitals. if they were just, it was a decent or an effect of political prisoner. yeah, i mean, the psychiatric cases, rather than to the us, i saw, you know, the, one of the 1st things done in ukraine after the 24 team go was

a band russian poetry. they took down the, i think more than 30 statues of pushkin. uh, what was it like and listed you or what was your view of how, regardless of your view and what was happening. as regards the conflict in your why it was that nato power has back to, i mean renaming a push can park. obviously those 3 epsky was payments to be banned russian soprano and editor banjo band and the usa from the met conductors. valerie, go give this relationship between ok so important. so frightening to the nato nations that they need to bend poetry and poets. it is something usually more for people to overreact and to take out against a culture of what is really a political issue in the united states during the 1st floor or german restaurants were attacked german for lynched. the german language was effectively bad. united states used to have thousands of german newspapers, which were shut down or,

or how to convert to english. german was after english. the 2nd most spoken language in the country. this is not a huge rule in more time for people to forget that despite your differences, culture, united states have the credit card hospital from temple, they never stopped playing german composers and the sunday saturday concept. because they felt that it was right to spectrum and culture, even though they were fighting enrollment. and except tchaikovsky, i understand the contents of his have been banned in nato countries. and you know, ts eliot is being rated most go no, no problem. let me do you think the internet global south, bunch of whom supports a new world order, arguably, and believes there is world war 3 going on, whether it be green, whether it be gaza, that the war has already begun. and they're allowing poetry an arch

to continue, but it's not happening in nato nations. you think we'll do a 3 has begun. you know, i don't think it will work for you just because it had the gun. we don't be dead there be nuclear weapons and destroying the entire class. no, i don't. we're 3. and i think that there are differences. russia as in the ukraine, people don't like that. they don't like it just as we do just just as people do the buy in west in your opinion. right, right. i understand the, the, the, the issue is not to demonize the other just because you have a conflict with and that to me it should be universe. it's not right. that cost you should be banned or is it a holding should have been banned or any, any of the german language newspapers should have been banned for the 1st one or just that's just not right for me. i believe in freedom speech, i believed and respecting the cultures of others,

but we can still have opinions about the justice or injustice of invading over time . is i would say that, that cultural uh accompany meant as it were, is as one with the way i circled mainstream media where you are in italy, in western europe. and the united states is never being so bad when it comes to the genocide in guys. i what have you felt about the reporting of when i read the there was a, there was an interesting piece of the interesting me interesting, which is a very good website about a memo of the new york times, instructing people not to use the word mastic for when it's report within the allowed to use the words each other lives there is. there's a memo tool, employees at the new york times, they don't use the word genocide, occupied territory or even pilots. yes. and obviously that's just not you can't, you can't tell you reporters what to what out of how to frame their record. i think

the, you know, you know, times is over sensitive to, to this issue. they've done some, some of the recording has been as much of it has been this, it varies from reported a report or in day to day. but overall is the editorial policy is to favor one side or the other than that. that's all you have to be fair and objective and see both sides the same there. for the most part, they're not doing, not just ignore docs. many just papers on bad said some journalists and i and you know, this one was either charlie or the b c. yeah, i do apologize for his reporting to the bbc jeremy bowen. some years ago, he's been here for 40 years in 1st grade in fair just just as least you said, just as paul adams as because he's been very good. jason burke at the guardian of goods are also very good. i died through the to differ about some of those reporters. but you know, you're a fan of chomsky you uh and i the i'm friend of no. yeah,

i mean it will be on this show and the whole point of the drum screw model is you don't have to send memos from management to john list because as a kind of censorship, by default that goes on, that's the trunk model. what do you make of the fact that so explicit the come on does it, will it to john, have you ever seen anything like that? i'm when i'm in places right. what i never received. i see that. no, i mean, it's unusual and maybe you know, times of just gone overboard because they've probably had a lot of complaints about some of the reporting which wasn't pro, is really and yet if you see the demonstrations in the united states, the poor poll numbers and important voting books. i had one of them is election. i don't think we've ever seen such profile as 9 movements in the united states. what do you, what do you make of the fact of what was once considered n t some easy. i just avoid even

a 2 state solution that the ones that solution has got so much traction in the united states, which is traditionally mean is a pro justice in the middle east. as probably the goal is that for many years on the teen or can public his favor an independent obstinate state. i mean, consistently for years, but the, the, that doesn't mean it would be ex officer to congress or to the white house the, the public. this is as long favor a solution solution, preferably a 2 state solution to him. this function of the bloodshed now is so greedy, so so on. do some over 30000 people, men, women, and children killed and, and probably 3 or 4 times that number, severely wounded. and you see this can't go on and somebody is dr. stopped, you know, responsible ontario power overall power would have stepped in a long time ago. just saying this is, this is enough,

enough software has been calls, it's going to be could it could lead to a regional conflict, a serious regional conflict in which american interest would be severely threatened in his time to put a stop to it in the public knows but the leadership isn't, isn't following over. i mean, you being critical of it like a matter of solar diversity as regards to a power stand restroom because, you know, in the past few months really is it, the chinese broken the deal between saudi arabia and iran. how important is that going to be in the coming week? perhaps if one believes the, uh, some, i'd say hysterical the headlines in a lot of mainstream easier. so golden western europe that there has to be retaliation from is relatively the kind of re retaliation for the ring in response to the bombing of their consumers in damascus. i think i think it's worth comparing the error reaction to the october 1973 war when egypt and syria went

to war with israel in order to regain the territories that they had lost. in 1967 at that time, saudi arabia led away to would have an error, oil avoid cost on the west disabilities. and that helped to bring it in to that word for it fairly quick and, and to give somebody talks, it show you at a bad time to go to boston state. this time will accumulate as much worse. and, and the palestinians suffering much, much worse. the architects have not enacted an oil embargo on anyone. they haven't done anything except pay a bit of lip service to the policy and calls in order to placate their own populations, who are outraged by what's happening. and they've done basically nothing. they haven't ever states that have given back to patients with this. you haven't given them separately. is their, their reaction. the palestinians cannot rely on their products any way to account.

i think it's a bit like we used to say about the colors, the terms have no friends, but the amount of housing is only about josh, i'll stop you. the more from the award winning foreign correspondent and author of soldiers don't go mad after this break. the known in vietnam as the american war, the vietnam war, lost it for almost 2 decades and dragged in numerous countries. not any terms we have now, and then you can just swing them. wow. it's all i'm empty. hundreds of thousands of american troops was sent to the country to back the south vietnamese on me. i thought about that not, but the american soldiers murdered resistors. most of the slaves burned down entire villages and spread dangerous chemicals. and even lee by all

right, did the americans ever fully acknowledge what they did on the vietnamese veterans ready to forgive? yes, that's the way to the the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the world winning foreign correspondent and older. a soldiers don't go mad. charles, last jobs we were talking about the response in this region in west asia to the terrible events and in gaza. i suppose both of us would love it if i could talk to

you right now. and then other books that'd be julian assigned to giving is a diagnosis of geo politics. at the moment, as russia, china breaks get closer and yet in nato countries, the talk is continually of continuing war in europe. no negotiations. and there are no negotiations on the table as such as regards gaza. do you think us on just becoming more more emblematic is case of a press freedom and secrecy to do this on just as a victim of those who want to conceal crime. ready crush id he's being punished for having made available documents that were released to him by whistle was from within the establishment that prove the united states in particular and committed work. and he's,

he's being punished for that and he not only being punished for that, but also being used as an example to others. so that they don't do the same thing. if julia were free now and when he leaves for up and running, we would know a lot more about us policy on god. so we would know a lot more about what these raiders are planning on is that we would know much more about plans for the united states to deal with the wrong. um, but julian isn't cable to function ease. he's locked up for 23 hours a day in a cell allowed out one hour a day and it can find enclosed space for exercise. barely have it has enough to eat the budget. don't wash maximum security prison just $2.00 a day for food. he's. he's suffering a great deal. he does have, he still doesn't know his ultimately he will be sent to united states to spend the rest of his life. and even worse, confinement and american maximum security prison and his life,

his life is hell. and we're, we're actually homeless. the public are suffering electric knowledge because he's not there because when he leaks isn't functioning, because we're not able to find out many of the state secrets that we used to have access to say about one. you mentioned all these journalists, i don't hear them talking about designs. you went to visit him. i understand. i haven't seen him since our interviews. people can watch them on a rumble channel from inside the ecuadorian embassy during a political asylum of what was it like for you personally uh to see him in that states. uh, i mean, i think last time i saw you, we were maybe he was free uh, giving press conferences at the front 9 club which even that kind of turned against him. people. i remember telling me he's a sort of traitor. he's not really a journalist. he's a, i'm not sure what they told him, a russian asset who knows what a smidge and with so many, many,

many journalists turn, had turned against junior, including editors of newspapers. and i was the other slight patrick cockburn, late john killenger stood by and have come to the surface and their defense of him . and that is right above the there's a division in, in the drawing, mr. community on him. however, now that it's so close to his expedition as potential explanation or major newspapers not states of the reports without borders and other other journalists, organizations, even the national union journalist in britain has come to his defense and say, you should not be published. and what was it like for you going there? the maximum security prison in london in december? well, i have seen, i hadn't seen him since he'd been put in. don't wash for 5 years previously. and i he doesn't look the same used to simply pay. he hasn't seen

the sun indeed has any sunlight at all and yes, he's lost weight because he doesn't have enough to eat she's week. here's the keys alert, his mind is still functioning. he's a sharp as ever he's aware of what's going on in the world. and he, he still is engaging and, and funny, as he always was, are i richard and very highly is one of the bravest. and then i have never been in my life. and he still is that right now. the united states, of course, gave an assurance of this week. they won't kill him. why you suing the head of the c i a has regardless, i'm not. i'm not seeing the hands you. i'm sitting a former not meet with the 22 lawyers and one other journalist and i are joining me . suing the former c. i might on page 4 in 2017 and 18. he's dropping on our conversations with jordan,

taking our cellphones and taking all the information or cell phones and 45 or i'll show you which of because we are american citizens. and because lawyer client conversations are pretty much, oh, we are under the 4th amendment. united states showing mike on peo and the c i of that time. and yet of course the us making this assurance, they don't want to kill him when bumpo clearly said he wants to kill them and every time to as we know said drone bottom him understand a friend of us a mile clooney was actually on the weekly leaks team, bizarrely, i don't think she defends julia sands allowing these bizarre coal proceedings going through london. what did you think of these assurances from the bye demonstration that they wouldn't kill julian or somebody to be the 1st one who was proposing an extra traditional assassination? now it's not that he should be execute, which he advocates use us mention some are also truly we have

a a new condition which is due. the british court has said they will not be true and cannot be asserting noted states as eastern as i used to jessica, because i to legal in britain and interest, and then the rest of your so the us has had to give that a shot. they have not met only assurances at the courthouse because also asked that he received the same protections on the 1st and then the 3rd american citizen received and the u. s. president give that sure. it is said that would be up to the us quotes. so it is this point, the base for an a very difficult position. i think they want to actually document order to please nice states, but the us is, has not met the conditions of the course yet. so i think you is appeal will probably go through and it may, it may turn out that you won't be extra. that's not expedited. that's what we will hold. because i understand they call and give the 1st amendment rights because of the guantanamo torch account, which is still in operation. and the british quotes,

though, are they really in a difficult position? they have explicit a documentation explaining of assassination attempts were planning against a junior decides, but we need more time. okay, so there's nothing to the 1st event tonight that's that's something else i understand below as the for those people tried to get 1st amendment rights for captives that um the how i might, i mean, i mean, clearly, i mean i'm, what's your would you give the issue or not, right? they couldn't give any can any. in any case, the court is in a difficult position in britain. if it wants to please the united states, which the british directly tried to do, but also conform commercial impression. all right now does not receive the assurances disaster and so they may not be able to extra document name or allow for is further appealed to go ahead. this, of course,

after the judge and the british court said, all the other stuff about the like, interest, all the other stuff about, about the assassination attempt allegations. you see global, you might want to tell us and remind us about that already relevant to the expedition request. only torture claims by you and rep with a deals mailed services being on this row. what does he think of the fact goal of that is judge irrelevant? well, that's why i'm saying they're trying to please united states, you know, and you have the honestly just making it easy for them because they haven't given whole insurance is that the core is asked for. and what did you make of the fact that we can make the lives didn't apply for bail, but it didn't initially but to the court. the court has the very beginning. when wouldn't brad? remember you had to search 50 weeks for origin. his original bail job, and then after that they wanted him to be released on bail, but because he jumped the 1st on the court with granite. so i mean,

can you see that in the global set of people are looking at this and thinking, why would you expect court systems in britain which is being a party to georgia? i think only this week, the case on abu ghraib has being talked about. and policies that need to the invasion of iraq, the united states, which has of georgia, can be in guantanamo where we know of black sites and so on. and the idea that the, they don't kill of people who, when do exercise 1st amendment rights, is on surprising. what is this major poncas quotes mean? united states a bit by non real press freedom and a said united states has dedicated to press freedom. my action of him at the same time he's, he's making sure we're doing this on just kept in imagine security prison in britain, waiting extradition to a maximum security prison. united states is this great office. we all know it normally is global south between all the states and britain and probably even in

the buyer where and i haven't seen you on. so go mainstream media in nato countries commenting that much about the genocide. i presume that is not for because you don't want to talk about it will be to the guests that these sorts of television programs have. um, it doesn't seem to be getting through the circle. it has a bar is riley propaganda. what however, israel failing and getting their message across, as they normally have done over the decades there's folks that are still getting their message out. i don't know, people leave them because their message is contradicted by what people are seeing happening on the ground there. although they won't admit for him directly to his relays, any objections won't allow for in drugs into dogs. the truth for there are many palestinian girls many who killed many paulson and john was to are their recording

on video and audio writing about what's happening every day. or something. so the, the propaganda just isn't no propagandist and we're going to be good enough to conceal these facts. we know the generational impact of states ever and should either of the 2nd and divide it and so on. i suppose going back to your book talking about the horrors of the 1st world war, as expressed by the simpleton classes in britain. how long would it take for this region to recover the people of palestine from what's been happening these past 6 months? this is not only what's been happening these past 6 months is what it's going to happen in the next 6 months. i mean there, there is a risk of a major conflict between is real and wrong. there's a risk of further conflagration in dollars. i guess the idea goes into rough up the risk of the exit as of

a 1000000 or more palestinians into the sign right. does or no, there's a risk of war between israel and his ball or in level, which would mean what is the total destruction of love and destruction? many is really cities. and that was a what we've seen so far has nothing to what we might see in the coming months. it's. it's a terrifying prospect. i think it's, it's, it's worth mentioning that easily, obama digital magic emission in another country. when i've kind of bombed american diplomatic missions and doris, mom and i wrote with us on the hell out of the canister media, we have to get in here and fight and says nothing about this is this is a violation. the convention is it is a violation of international law, and it's like, it didn't happen. and like the iranian missile response was just, you know, some crazy thing at the lowest child's boss. thank you. and that's it for the show . i'll continue condolences to the survivors,

all of you as you get you nation. i'm kidding. in palestine, syria, human loving and iran and iraq will be back with a brand new episode on monday with redacted co host natalie morris. and you'll then keep in touch my role, i social media results centers in your country and had to have channel going on. they're going to be on normal. they'll come to watching you and all that is that's off going on the ground. see monday, the dns on the news goes as been choose for many centuries. the way that they made best acute did once bullshit games oppressed and nobody can know, it seems that the bodies spoke you by the same the

the man, the northern tabs written down when you said, you know why the.