it also says that it will establish everyone responsible for this incident and will do everything to bring them to justice. friday, visit the visit to the going, undergoing studios next to see who options engaging in conversation today, right up to the shortest, to bring the i'm action or sense here. welcome back to going underground broadcast to go around the world from west asia. what some of the cooling a 3rd world war widens limits mass censorship in nato nations of news information. and i'll give me a jump skin propaganda model and steroids with britain and the us building yemen in iraq and us proxies, wyoming,

syria and palestine. i'm 11 and expressing defends is never be more difficult. i mean, it stay declining american empire. joining us onto of wiki leaks, tortured in britain, is perhaps never be more emblematic of the savagery of a dying headroom on. and i guess today, assuming the former boss of the c, i a over him since the 7th of october, a john list, all media worker is being killed every 2 days in the gaza genocide alone. and israel is even kidding poets. charles lost as an award winning foreign correspondents. these common conflict in palestine, lebanon, syria, iraq, to somalia, and every trainer in western europe. his, they just broke his soul. just don't go mad about poets and he joins me now from florence initially. a josh good to see you again. obviously there's been so much kidding in gaza just this week. well i guess initially and invest in your a bed talking about retaliation against iran and a poet in god's a refund. that area was killed in december. i just before we go into the events of

this week and will go 3 arguably uh, tell me about soldiers go, go mad refund wasn't a soldier, but in world war one soldier as well, but many soldiers were power. it was a very well educated generation, particularly among the officers class. they were raised on sheets or cakes, and shelley and other famous british powers, shakespeare, milson, they could quote the metal legs, some particularly colored like rubber grays, or stickers. assume or wilford all or all of them were officers in the british army in the war. and all of them suffered something called shelf shot, which we now call post traumatic stress disorder. my book is really about the fact that the war had on those men were treated in a particular mental hospital called to create lockhart more hospitable for officers where seek for existing met wilford. oh, and together they include each other's poetry and also help each other to mentor

recovery is an exhaustive book about that. what we now cool b s. d. but do you think wilfred owens assume being red via said the british ambassador to the un let alone? linda told me is greenfield of the u. s. when they refused to veto that? sorry, they've veto resolution ceasefire resolutions that the un security council, because i don't know what you've been thinking uh as you've been promoting the book, perhaps as well as we hear the what a 100000 perhaps killed or wounded? mostly women and children, not soldiers in the gaza strip, or i don't know what different match reading these days. certainly in the past they want to read so. so now and grades the soonest occasionally relevant here because he was urging a diplomatic resolution of the 1st floor more much as people are urging at an end

to the smouldering browser through negotiations and diplomacy. rather than continue blush, it, he wrote a protest about the war and he felt that the british war aims for distributors and that they were really fighting for imperial gain to france was fighting to take parts of germany that um, the germans punctured and were they keep 70 and that and then they were not really defending freedom. they were actually killing young man like systems, entire generation in order to achieve their internal mystic paints. it would be worth reading that protest today. i think because that was wise to assume was sent to a mental what rather the court martian put the war on trial suit was a very prominent power in a very prominent person from a very distinguished background of the central mental spot. much of the soviet union used to send people to mental hospitals if they were just,

it was additional during the effect of political president. yeah, i mean, the psychiatric cases redlands of the us, i saw, you know, the, one of the 1st things done in ukraine after the 24 team go was they banned russian poetry. they took down the, i think more than 30 statues of pushkin. what was it like in west and what was your view of how, regardless of your view and what was happening? as regards the conflict in europe, why it was that nato power has back to i mean renaming a push can park. obviously, just a epsky was payments to be banned. russian soprano and electro banga band and the usa from the met conductors. valerie, go give this relationship between ok so important. so frightening to the nato nations that they need to band poetry and poets. this is the song that it's not usually more for people to overreact and to take out against the culture of what is

really a political issue in the united states during the 1st floor was drawn, restaurants were attacked german for lynched. the german language was effectively bad. united states used to have thousands of german newspapers which were shut down or, or how to convert to english or german was after english. the 2nd most spoken language in the country. this is not unusual in more time for people to forget that despite your differences, culture, united states, as a credit card hospital, for example, they never stopped playing german composers in the, in the saturday concept. because they felt that it was right to spectrum and culture, even though they were fighting enrollment. and except tchaikovsky, i understand the contents of his have been banned in nato countries. and you know, ts eliot is being red in most go no, no problem. i mean,

do you think the entire global south bunch of room supports a new world order arguably, i don't believe that there is world war 3 going on. whether it be grain, whether it be gaza, that the war has already begun. and they're allowing poetry an arch to continue, but it's not happening in nato nations. you think we'll do a 3 has begun or no, i don't think it will work for you just because it had the gun. we don't be dead there be nuclear weapons and destroying the entire planet. no, i don't really. what was the reason? i think that there are differences. russia as in the ukraine, people don't like that. they don't like it just as we do just just as people do the buy in west and europe and the like, raw data stance the, the, the, the issue is not to demonize the other just because you have a conflict with and that to me it should be universal, it's not right to talk kosky should be banned or that

a whole should have been banned or any, any of the german language newspapers should have been banned for the 1st one or just a that's just not right for me. i believe in freedom speech, i believed and respecting the cultures of others, but we can still have opinions about the justice or injustice of invading or the con is i'm would say that, that cultural uh accompany meant as it were, is as one with the way i circled mainstream media where you are in italy, in western europe, in the united states is never being so bad when it comes to the genocide in guys what have you felt about the reporting of when i remember there was a, there was, there was an interesting piece of the understand the intercept, which is a very good website about a memo of the new york times, instructing people not to use the word mastic for when it's a report but didn't know allowed to use

a word and share that lives. there's. there's a memo tool, employees at the new york times, they don't use the word genocide, occupied territory or even pilots. yes. and obviously that's just not you can't, you can't tell you reporters what to what out of how to frame their record. i think the, you know, you know, times is over sensitive to, to this issue they've done some, some of the recording has been as much of it has been this. it varies from florida to reporter and day to day. but overall is the editorial policy is to favor one side or the other than that. that's similar to all. you have to be fair and objective of actually both sides the same, but they're there. for the most part, they're not doing a mattress box, many just papers and bats, and some journalists and i, and you know, this one was either charlie or the b c. yeah. i do apologize for his reporting to the bbc jeremy bowen. some years ago, he's been here for 40 years in 1st grade in fair just just as least you said,

just as paul adams has been. she's been very good. jason burke at the guardian and gives her also very good. i die through the to differ about some of those reporters . but you know, you're a fan of chomsky you uh and i the i'm friend of no. yeah, i mean it will be on this show and the whole point of the jump ski model is you don't have to send memos from management to john list because there's a kind of censorship by default that goes on, that's the trunk. get model. what do you make of the fact that so explicit the come ons? is it what a journalist have you ever seen anything like that? i'm when i'm in places right. well i never received. i see that. no, i mean, it's unusual and maybe you know, times it just gone overboard because they've probably had a lot of complaints about some of the reporting which wasn't pro, is really and yet if you see the demonstrations in the united states, the poor poll numbers and important voting books. i had one of them is election. i

don't think we've ever seen such pro palestine movements in the united states. what do you, what do you make of the fact of what was once considered anti semitic? i, you just avoid even a 2 state solution that the one states vision has got so much traction in the united states. which is traditionally mean is a pro justice in the middle east. as probably the balls have for many years shown that the not in public has favored an independent artist in each state. i mean, consistently for years. but the, the, that doesn't mean that the filters from the congress or to the white house, the, the alex is, is as long favored a solution solution, preferably a 2 state solution to end this function that the lunch should now is so greedy, so, so on. do some over 30000 people, then women and children killed and, and probably 3 or 4 times that number,

severely wounded. and you see this can't go on and somebody is dr. stopped, you know, responsible material power overall power would have stepped in a long time ago. just saying this is, this is enough, enough software has been calls, it's going to be could it could lead to a regional conflict, a serious regional conflict in which american interest would be severely threatening. and it's time to put a stop to it in the public knows, but the leadership isn't, isn't following over. i mean, you being critical of it like a matter of solar diversity as regards to the palestine restroom because you know, in the past few months really is it, the chinese broken the deal between saudi arabia and iran. how important is that going to be in the coming week? perhaps? if one believes we, uh, uh somebody, it's a hysterical headlines in the other mainstream, easier so cold and less than your that there has to be retaliation from is

relatively rare to kind of re retaliation for the range in response to the bombing of their consumers in damascus, i think i think it's worth comparing the error reaction to the october 1973 war when egypt and syria went to war with israel in order to regain the territories that they had lost in 1967. and that time, saudi arabia led the way to have an arrow oil boycott on the west. the support it is. and that helped to bring an end to that word for it fairly quick and. and to give somebody talks, it show you the best time to go to boston state. this time where the cubic is much worse and, and the palestinians suffering much, much worse. the architects have not enacted an oil embargo on any one. they haven't done anything except pay a bit of lip service to the policy and calls in order to placate their own

populations, who are outraged by what's happening. and they've done basically nothing they haven't ever experienced that have given back the patients with this. you haven't given them separately if they have their reaction, but i'll send you. i just cannot rely on their products anyway. i think it's a bit like we used to say about the course of towards have no friends, but the amount of housing is only about josh, i'll stop you. the more from the award winning foreign correspondent and author a. so just don't go mad after this break, the, the world's largest democracy folks, the rest of the planet watches in an emerging multi polar world. india's voice matters. but who will be the power behind watches, almost 1000000000 people decide and billions more, react the

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the world winning foreign correspondent and older. a soldiers don't go mad. charles, last jobs we were talking about the response in this region in west asia to the terrible events and in gaza. i suppose both of us would love it if i could talk to

you right now. and then another box that'd be julie and assigns, giving is a diagnosis of a geo politics at the moment, as russia, china breaks get closer and yet in nato countries, the talk is continually of continuing war in europe. no negotiations. and there are no negotiations on the table as such as regards gaza. do you think us on just becoming more and more emblematic is case of a press freedom and secrecy. a song just as a victim of those who want to conceal crime for christ. and he is being punished for having made the available documents that were released to him by whistle blowers from within the establishment that pro with united states in particular and committed work. and he's, he's being punished for that. and he not only being punished for that. and also

being used as an example to others, so that they don't do the same thing. if julian were free now, and when he leaves for up and running, we would know a lot more about us policy on god. so we would know a lot more about what these raiders are planning and gone. so we would know much more about plans for the united states to deal with the wrong. um, but julian isn't cable, so function he's, he's locked up for 23 hours a day in a cell allowed out one hour a day and it can find enclosed space for exercise. barely have it has enough to eat a bunch of that. don't wash maximum security. prison is $2.00 a day for food. he's. he's suffering a great deal. he doesn't, he still doesn't know. his ultimately, he will be sent to united states to spend the rest of his life. and even worse confinement and american maximum security prison and his life, his life is hell and we're, we're actually homeless. the public are suffering,

lack of knowledge because he's not there because when he leaks isn't functioning, because we're not able to find out many of the state secrets that we used to have access to say about one. you mentioned all these journalist. i don't hear them talking about designs. you went to visit him. i understand. i haven't seen him since our interviews. people can watch them on a rumble channel from inside the ecuadorian embassy during a political asylum of what was it like for you personally to see him in that state . so, i mean, i think last time i saw you, we were maybe he was free of giving press conferences at the front 9 club which even that kind of turned against him. people. i remember telling me he's a sort of traitor. he's not really a journalist. he's a, i'm not sure what they told him, a russia and ask that who knows what a smidge and with so many, many, many journalists turn pad, turned against junior,

including editors of newspapers and others. the other slight patrick cockburn will make tom killed or um stood by and have the citrus and their defense of him and that is right above the there's a division in, in the drawing mr. community on. however, now that it's so close to your expedition as potential expedition or major newspapers in the states of the reporters without borders and other other to invest a conversation with the national union journalist in britain has come to his defense and say, you should not be punished and what was it like for you going there? the maximum security prison in london in december? well, i have seen, i hadn't seen him since he'd been put in. don't wash for 5 years previously. and i, as he doesn't look the same, used to simply pay, he hasn't seen the stone. indeed it hasn't. it's any sunlight of old years. he's

lost weight because he doesn't have enough to be. she's weak. where he's, if he's alert, his mind is still functioning. sharp as ever, he's aware of what's going on in the world. so he, he still is engaging and i'm funny because he always was right. i, i read choosing very highly is one of the bravest man. i have never been in my life and he still use that phrase. now. the united states, of course, gave an assurance this week. they won't kill him. why you suing the heads of the c i a has regardless, i'm not, i'm not doing this. i'm assuming the former, not me with the 22 lawyers and one other journalist and i are joining new, suing the former have this year i might on page 4 in 2017 and 18. he's dropping on our conversations with julian taking our cellphones and taking all

the information or cell phones and quitting spyware optional issue, which because we are american citizens. and because lawyer client conversations are pretty much oh, we are under the 4th amendment united states doing mike compel and the see i of that time. and yes, of course of us making this assurance. they don't want to kill him when bumpo bailey said. he wanted to kill him and every time we know said drone bottom, him understand a friend of a mile clooney was actually on the wiki leaks team bizarrely. i don't think she defends julia sands allowing these bizarre coal proceedings going through the what did you think of these assurances from the demonstration that they wouldn't kill julian or somebody to be for it for someone who was proposing an extra traditional assassination. now it's not that he should be execute, which he execution with us mentions are also truly, we have a,

a new condition which is due. the british court has said they will not be true and cannot be a 2nd order states because he's gonna replace the desktop because that's illegal. and then the rest and the rest of your so the us has had to give that a shot. they have not met only assurances at the courthouse who is also asked that he received the same protections on the 1st and then the 3rd american citizen received. and the us rather than give that short is says, does that, would it be up to the us quotes? so it is just put the base for an a very difficult position. i think they want to expedite him in order to please nice days. but the us has not met the conditions of the course yet. so i think you ins appeal will probably go through and it may, it may turn out that he won't be assured us about extradited. that's what we're old . because i understand they call and give the 1st amendment rights because of the guantanamo torture kind of which is still in operation. and the british quotes,

though, are they really in a difficult position? they have explicit a documentation explaining of assassination attempts were planning against a junior size, but we need more time. okay, so there's nothing to the 1st and then that's, that's something else. i understand the law as the for those people tried to get 1st amendment rights for captives that i mean how i might, i mean, i mean, clearly, i mean i'm, what's your problem they're not doing. did you get the issue or not? right. they couldn't give any genetic. in any case, the court is in a difficult position in britain. if it wants to please the united states, which the british embarrassed to try to do, but also conform conditional british law right now does not receive the assurances did his ass. and so they may not be able to extra document name or allow for is further appealed to go ahead. this, of course,

after the judge in the british court said, all the other stuff about the like, interest, all the other stuff about, about the assassination attempt allegations. you see global, you might want to tell us and remind us about that. all the relevant to the expedition request, only torture claims by you and robert of deals, mailed services being on this row. what did you think of the fact goal of that is judge irrelevant? well, that's why i'm saying they're trying to please united states or not. and you have the honestly, it isn't making it easy for them because they haven't given whole assurances that the court has asked for. and what did you make of the fact that we can think so as didn't apply for bail? but we didn't initially but to the court, the court already gave me when wouldn't brad? remember he had to search 50 weeks for a week of his original bail job. and then after that, they wanted him to be released home they over because the jump in the 1st time the court wouldn't print. i mean, can you see that in the global set of people are looking at this and thinking,

why would you expect court systems in britain which is being a party to georgia? i think only this week, the case on abu ghraib has being talked about and policies that need to the invasion of iraq. the united states, which has of georgia, can be in guantanamo where we know of black sites and so on. and the idea that the, they don't kill of people who, when do exercise 1st amendment rights is on surprising. well, this part, this major congress quotes mean united states. so they bind on wordpress freedom space and united states is dedicated to press free a minor accident. and at the same time he's, he's making sure we're doing this on just kept, you know, maximum security prison in britain, waiting extradition to a maximum security prison. united states and this is great and we all know it normally is global south people, united states and britain, and probably even in dubai or where and i haven't seen you on. so go mainstream

media in nato countries commenting that much about the genocide. i presume that is not for because you don't want to talk about it will be to the guests that these sorts of television programs have. um, it doesn't seem to be getting through the so called has a bar is rarely propaganda. what however, israel failing in getting their message across, as they normally have done over the decades. there's folks that are still getting their message out. i don't know if people leave, because their message is contradicted by what people are seeing happening on the ground. they're a little, they won't admit for him directly to his release and the addictions won't allow for, and drugs in 2012 for their main house didn't have drugs, many who killed many policy and drug was to or they're recording on video and audio writing about what's happening and every day it's on. so the,

the propaganda just isn't no propagandist and we're going to be good enough to conceal these facts. we know the generational impact of states ever and should dealer of the 2nd and divide and so on. i suppose going back to your book talking about the horrors of the 1st world war, as expressed by the simpleton classes in britain. how long would it take for this region to recover the people of palestine from what's been happening these past 6 months? this is not only what's been happening these past 6 months is what it's going to happen in the next 6 months. i mean, there is, there is a risk of a major conflict between israel and you're wrong. there's a risk of a further conflagration in dollars. i guess the idea goes into rough up the risk of the exit as of a 1000000 or more palestinians until the sign right. does or, or there's

a risk of war between israel and his ball in lebanon, which would mean, what is the total destruction of leather and destruction? many is really cities. and that was the what we've seen so far has nothing to what we might see in the coming months. it's. it's a terrifying prospect. i think it's, it's, it's worth mentioning that easily obtainable mat emission there another country. when i've kind of bombed american diplomatic missions in doris law and i wrote with us on the hell out against media, we have to get in here and find out there's nothing about this is there's a violation. the convention is it is a violation of international law, and it's like, it didn't happen. and like the iranian missile response was just, you know, some crazy thing of the lowest child's boss. thank you. and that's it for the show of continued condolences to the survivors. all of us, you get you nation. i'm kidding. in palestine, syria,

human loving and iran and iraq will be back with a brand new episode on monday with redacted co host natalie morris. and you'll then keep in touch, my role. i social media results centers in your country and had to have channel going underground. do you feel normal? don't come to watching you and all that is, that's of going underground. seem under the there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case of the med, most of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also absurd. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing press for so the funder line likes to say we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deal. so what is, let me let me on. you have very quick propaganda. you know a price here in your i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not

allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. the more questions ask the better the answer is will be the u. s. congress green lights, another $60000000000.00 for ukraine, despite the majority of republican highest members opposing the bill. also in the program this hour, the overnight is really strong on the residential building in the southern galvan city, a put off 5 kills at least 9 people, including 6 children, according to local authorities. adults. the police to the palestinians are killed during a multi day on df rate in the.