right now with this because it's not in the interest of the company, it's in the interest of citizen, it's in the interest of humans. like you wouldn't be bad. any crime happens to us and we don't, you know, we can't even get the basic rights that can be enforced or need to be gone to justice despite having laws in place. all right, same authority international have next on going underground. the option redundancy speaks with labor journalists, hamilton nolan, about the soaring popularity of trade unions in the us and why the country may be at a tipping point to reclaim for her power by the the

action or tendency will get back to going on the ground broadcasting all around the world, from the way i had them in november's election, so called mainstream corporate propaganda. media in the united states will center analysis on personality and identity instead of clause. it wasn't always so once it was the working classes and organized labor that terrified us. it leads and threatened that controlled but as new liberal and the quality is risen over the decades. the workers back last year as well. over half a 1000000 workers across industries from automotive to a vibration to entertainment, his significant lines in nearly 400 strikes in the us genocide, joe biden even intervene to make transport strikes illegal. joining me now is labor journalist, hamilton nolan, north of the how much power and equality and the struggle for the soul of labor. hamilton himself played a key role in unionizing the workforce at golf media. you joins me now from new york, hamilton. thank you so much for coming on. i understand that your book has made the usa today best seller list. what drove you to right and how come it struck such

a cord, seemingly in the united states and in the election year as well. i have been a labor journalist for a long time and i, as you mentioned, got the opportunity to help organize my own workplace, a golf for media in 2015. i got a chance to see the labor movement of both from the outside of the journalist and from the inside as somebody participating in my own union. and you know, as a backdrop, to this book, 50 years of rising in a quality in the united states of america, particularly since the reagan era has let us to a point when people have gotten fed up. and public opinion polls tell us today that unions are as popular as they have been in 60 years in the united states of america . so i think that we may have finally hit a tipping point when people are ready to reclaim the work or power that has been lost to them over the past generations. yeah, it was the old, even to the academy awards to hear people talk about the successful writers strike

over there. but at the same time, what exactly happened with joe biden in the transport work as a he see you next to the law or to stop the strike. yeah, jo live in um, likes to town himself as the most pro union president of our lifetimes, which i think he probably is, although it's the extremely low bar. if you think even of democratic presidents like bill clinton and brock obama, but the ones in my lifetime did not really spend a lot of their own political capital to help prop up unions or promote work or power. so by, by those low standards, by that has been a very probably the president. however, as you mentioned when the, when the railroad workers went to go on strike, which would have been the biggest strike of his presidency. he did use his power to prevent them from going on strike, which is unfortunately, has become the standard for president to under the railway labor act, which is

a sort of a lot designed to contain worker power in those transportation industries. but he could have chosen not to do that fundamentally. and the fact that he stopped that strike, i think, is the biggest market against him. and his claim to be a real pro union president, some of the constitution coming to action that to protect workers. unfortunately, there's a, you know, us labor law is very and so i work are fundamentally and especially in, in those transportation industries which have their own law called the railway labor acts, which restricts them even more of the private sector workers. so it's, it's very difficult for those workers to pull off large scale strikes because the government has given itself the power to order them not to do so. so it's like if they really threaten corporate profits, that's what comes into action. i mean, in the fifty's, hollywood, of course, had marlon brando in on the waterfront, used as part of the cultural propaganda war to destroy the reputation of trade

unions across the united states. what are they using right now then? because seemingly people are saying, yeah, union is a good but at the same time as the railway work, as the strikes shows underneath the surface, there are a subtle ways the powerful can use to stop work is organizing as well. you know, since since the 1980s in particular, and since the ronald reagan era, the unions have really declined culturally economically, socially. mathematically in all ways, uni density has been on the decline with the rise of deregulation from the reagan era. and then with the rise of the liberalism, that was promoted by democratic presidents as well as public and presidents. i think that however, we have reached the time when that might be changing. and particularly since the pandemic years when tens of millions of american workers found themselves at work

found themselves in crisis, found themselves deemed essential. workers without the given pay raises all those things that serve to kind of radicalize a new generation of workers in america. and i think culturally and politically and economically we're, we're starting to see a potential turnaround in the way that people think about unions and labor in america. and the question is whether the labor movement itself, which is kind of been render weak overall, these decades of decline can take advantage of this moment. so if people are in the united states are watching this and want to form a trade union in a private sector business, tell me what obstacles are gonna they gonna come up against to prevent them from organizing their labor. well, the 1st obstacle is that the labor laws in america make it very easy for employers

to retaliate against workers for tried to form unions. even though it is technically illegal for employers to retaliate for, organize an activity. the penalties for doing that are almost nonexistent. and so big employers know that it's actually in their interest to do things look like fire workers and try to organize to intimidate workers who try to organize. so those tactics come with such small penalties that companies are really economically incentivized to crack down on unions. and pursue union busting so that that's the 1st obstacle that workers have to encounter. and the other obstacle really is, is again, the weakness of organized labor itself, all of those decades of decline have made it very hard for workers to do simple and basic things like get in contact with the union. are organizer find a union that is willing to put the resources behind them to pursue a successful organizing campaign, to fight against employers that already investing. so on both sides, workers are,

workers are dealing with obstacles, both of the company being able to step on their necks and then trying to find a union that, that is willing to help them out and back them and their struggle the a, f, l. c. i o in the book, you call them a media greenhouse loving for. it's known around the world that organization has something that is promoted death squads and torture, low across latin america. and in the global south, tell me what the f l c i o is. first of all, because many people might recognize as a cut out of the intelligence agencies have how, how it's supposed to help trade shinji instead work is around the world. but actually as being performing a different role to buy. so they have to also is a, is the largest federation of unions and united states of america. 60 unions. it has around, i believe, $13000000.00 total of numbers. so it is not a union itself,

it is a, it is a labor federation, the biggest and most powerful labor federation. america, as you mentioned, um, throughout the history of the esl, it has been played by a lot of problems, not the least of which are as long as foreign policy foreign policy positions that is taken over many years. it's also, it's also historically been a fairly conservative labor federation is always falling on the conservative spectrum of labor history. but the fact remains that when you look at organize labor in america for better or worse, the f o c o is the organization that sits at the center that most union members in america are technically members of the f, l. c. o. and so when you think of the starting point to build a stronger labor movement in america, it is going to start inside the f l. c o like it or not because that is the organization that exists. that is the table that. busy or most of the biggest students in america are sitting around. so it's a, it's an organization that has

a lot of potential um, domestically at least 2 to be the place that helps to rebuild the labor, proven in america. but it has always suffered from conservatism and a little bit of a lack of ambition and a lack of a vision. you called a mediocre. yeah. and a loving. yeah. um and you know, this statement i'm 3 gives you from the middle east on the genocide in the middle east. was they recommended a, a negotiated seized by they would even clear enough, unlike many other trades unions about what's happening here in the middle east to call for a purpose, east fire and goes yeah, i mean it's, it's always going to probably be disappointing to look to the f o c o for more leadership is the time to abolish it and it's not something new, like many unions are going their separate ways and they have done every day when they're a more conservative elements in, in the organized labor that it preventing them fight for their rights. yeah,

there have been instances in labor history when the more progressive unions and unions that really want to pursue, organizing have split off from the f l. c. o. it happened early in the 20th century when they formed the c i o. and it happened again in, in the late 20th century, when they found article asian called change to when, oh, those instances where unions that wanted to pursue the industrial organizing. and they were frustrated by the f l. c. a reluctance to do that. so it's always, it's always been the same thing with apple c o. however, abolishing it, the problem is if you abolish it, you just have to rebuild it again from the ground up. so i would like to see it taken over and used as, as a tool for good rather than abolished. so tell me about sarah nelson. i know in the reagan the error breaking the pilot's union was a major part of ronald reagan in the eighty's to forge the new liberal will be now exist in. and i also dennis could say that you were able to see our interview with him. you might be going for congress, a game, talked about all and the various ways attempts are made to destroy political power

. that helps workers. why is there analysis that you're here for you? in the book, sir nelson is the head of the association of flight attendance, which is the, the union for flight attendance, the united states. she is sort of the running central figure in my book. she's very passionate progressive firey, labor leader that i have always admired as the labor journalist. one is versed, union leaders that, that i ever interview, that i felt like really grasp the scale of the problems that we were faces in america and had to sort of drive in the ambition to try to fix those problems. um, she is a great progressive. she's an ally of bernie sanders, she is one of the most prominent left wing labor leaders. and in the book i sort of follow her struggle of how and whether to become a leader of the larger labor movement and some of the challenges with trying to pull together the leadership and a move at that is so disparate and divided politically and otherwise. so they have

being some successful strikes. recently, of course these are make the big headlines. ones at the amazon ends in starbucks, which actually is being the subject of boycotts in asia or over its relationship with the, with israel. how, how did, how did the starbucks strikes, succeed? a starbucks has been a very uh inspirational organizing campaign started a couple of years ago and they decided to, to unionize once toward a time. and they've, and they have successfully nice 400 stores now across america. starbucks workers campaign has very grass roots campaign, very worker driven a lot of young, ideologically motivated workers at the stores who's done a lot of the work themselves to spread this organizing campaign. and at the same time, the billionaire founder of starbucks, our shots,

i radically was born. sorry. i'm actually interviewed. oh yeah. yeah. yeah. he, i rightly was going to be hillary clinton's choice for labor secretary and now he's the, he's the most notorious union bus or in the united states of america. but recently they did, in fact, did starbucks to agree to come to the table and negotiate a contract with that union. so they, they have um, they have a light at the end of the tunnel for that campaign. and it's been very successful. and as you mentioned, they were, they were on the forefront of calling for us east fire and gaza of something that spread through a lot of other unions. well, we'll do now and i'll stop you there. well, from the old or the new books, i am a power inequality and the struggle with this sort of labor up to this break, the acceptance. and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. you do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different whitelisted opinions that

he won't get anywhere else. welcome to planes or do they have the state department c i a weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching. but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you when i 1st moved to rush i, one of the most amazing things i found was to moscow metro. in fact, the very 1st phrase that i ever learned and nothing was careful, doors are closing. so what makes this place so specially what secrets is of hiding to find out what the funded the city was. alexander pop off, even historian,

who studies the wonders of the moscow metro hello and welcome to across the board. here we discussed some real in the welcome back to going under grant. i was still here with hamilton. no, no the, the new book, the how the power in the quality of the struggle for the soul of labor. we were talking about the successes as regards the se, starbucks, but all these unions of backing joe biden, this november, and that includes uh, obviously the f l c i o f t a f, a c m i a f t, and then you people can look these up as all these acronyms that was difficult enough. i think we'll hear you a w, a shop for different numbers. so i think the 1st thing they need to do is make that unions easier to easier to understand like corporate logos perhaps. why is it they

back, joe biden, biden's choice of a federal reserve boss jerome powell, and obviously he was there before, says it is high wage growth is the problem in the united states. that's why inflation is the even full was magazine, is saying that's a bit harsh. is actually the ruge of all evil, high wage growth. do you think many of these union workers are seeing high wage growth and then blaming themselves because of biden's fed boss? well, i, you know, the united states of america is a 2 party system and, and this has always been a challenge that face of organized labor in america. is that there's a big incentive for the democratic party to take unions for granted. because of the, the republican party is a partner that wants to essentially abolish unions all together and staff out all organize labor power. and so the choice is always been the democrats because the other choices so bad at the same time, of course, biden, who has been relatively pro union, still has the drawbacks, you know, as a, as a,

as a president, even as far as labor is concerned, you mentioned the railroad strike and other issues. so the question, because the pro union, when enacting legislation against a powerful susie and just as you said, it's a, it's a very low bar to close all around the world buttons. foreign policy is being acting, arguably against unionizing. organize labor in foreign policy, right. i mean, because the question for unions is how do you exert influence on joe biden? because trump is a non starter you, trump is trump, is a guy who was kicked out of his own union for being a scab. i mean, he is completely as i union, so there is no other choice for buy them at the same time. unions cannot sit back and allow bite in a democratic party to take them for granted. so they have to figure out how to apply pressure and how to influenced by them in the right direction. so 3rd party candidates of never being an issue we had going on west on this row. you know, there are these other candidates. trade unions will just be looking to the powerful

to bestow their privileges to workers rather than seeking a 3rd party candidates, even though from weekly leaks. we know how hillary clinton say destroyed, but nissan does is trance of ever becoming president by using the dnc against a candidate like scientists. i think uh, bernie sanders, it was, it was a candidate within the democratic party would have been a great candidate for labor and had a lot of labor backing and was probably the most pro labor candidate that, that i've seen in my lifetime, who also had a viable chance of winning the democratic nomination. the problem again with 3rd party candidates, the united states of america is that unless they have a viable chance of winning, all you do is cut down a support to, to the candidate closest to your side. so there's, there's problems with the design of the american electoral system that make it very hard for 3rd party candidates to be viable. sources of power for you just to

support is another problem. but given biden's a valid choice for keynesian militarism growth in the us economy depends on the proxy war through ukraine, on spending millions of dollars of worth of weapons to israel, to kill in gaza. the necessarily, the big trade unions are going to be representing the weapons industry and the military industrial complex that any moral person wants to avoid and destroy in favor of a piece making infrastructure investor investment. well, this is certainly been a perpetual problem in the united states of america, particularly since we're or to, you know, a lot of a lot of america's economic growth as forward to, has been fueled by, by the defense industries and, and by various wars around the world. so that is a, that is an inescapable issue. i think that is even larger than the way room. and it is true that there, there are some of the actions of organized labor that are more concerned with their

own jobs. and they are with geo political issues. and so it's not uncommon to find union supporting anything that will give them jobs, even if, even if something bad is coming of it. on the other hand, it is possible for organize labor as a whole, to have more world positions and to, and to combine. and you see that, for example, in a big coalition, the unions that has come together to offer a ceasefire and gaza. and that, that includes some of the biggest and strongest unions in the f l. c o. and out of the day of l. c. o. yeah, but of them down tools that the big uh, have you know, lockheed martin raped beyond these big companies to effectively receiving subsidy from the american taxpayer or the american pause. and if it is the threat of nuclear war that we're headed for because of the war in ukraine, no sign that work as we'll see beyond their daily pay rates and realize they've got a down tools because of policy. that is giving them the edge of hoops because their

lives might be endangered to a. yeah, i mean, most of the anti militaristic sentiment within the labor movement is very much of the grass roots level of labor movement. so. so you see grassroots activists inside of unions, for example, organizing today to try to shut down orm shipments to, to some of the ports in america, and to get the long short workers to actually refuse to serve the ships. that is, that's an example of an action that is happening today. but again, very grassroots driven. those things are not coming down from the top of organized labor. they're not coming from the f l. c o, they're not typically coming from the present as they're coming from the workers themselves. and so, yes, it is true that we need to elevate that kind of sentiment up to the top of the labor movement. and there are not a lot of sites that 10 is going to happen anytime soon. you know, overseas the national endowment for democracy is known as union busting. and the

way it to a to has been accused of trying to stop or organize labor in the developed world. in the united states, there's been a history of sell outs. what about the cobra at action today in organized labor? have you witnessed as a labor reporter over the years? are there suspect the actors as it were involved in creating trouble? just stop was organizing like they used to during the mccarthy is you know, it's just, it's not something that, that i've really witnessed as a labor journalist and i think unfortunately the truth is like, they don't need covered after such a to give a trouble. see you in these days, i mean there, there are enough bad union leaders out there and there's, and there is so much power on the corporate side right now. and the laws are so tilted in favor of corporate power, that all they need to do is, is to simply union bust and they can be very open about it and they are very open

about it. and they have teams of lawyers that do it. and they have teams of anti uni consultants that do it and so undermine the labor movement. is something that the, the government, the federal government and particularly a lot of state governments are very openly involved in themselves. they don't, they don't need any covered actors for that in the united states, at least. so it stands at around 10 percent then membership now and well, famously trump speech when he was inaugurated, talking about the industrialization of the midwest. clear that many of those 10 percent will be voting trump, not for joe biden, given joe by and talked about the middle classes and doesn't really seem to appeal to the industrial base of the united states, which is clearly going to be required if the united states is going to prosper and grow economically is yeah, one of the reasons why new union organizing is so important in the united states is that is that our national politics have become so polarized. it is very hard to see

ways for us to break out of this read 1st blue to party head, the head cycle that we're in downward spiral that has given us the rise of trump uh now over to 3 consecutive elections. and one of the only ways that you can bring people together, particularly in those devastated american heart land states that that were economically decimated by new liberalism. and by offshoring is to get people into unions and to show them the potential of a truly democratic organization. not democratic like electronic politics, which is not in fact democratic, but truly democratic in the, in the sense of a well run union that can be the foundation to bridge that gap between red and blue, between all types of workers coming together to pursue a common goal and i really believe that new union organizing can be the path that leads us out of this impasse. however,

as you said at only 10 percent of americans having unions, we're not going to get there. that needs to be a very, very big, large scale effort to get more americans into unions. so we can use that tool. clearly ai is going to be used as an organizing tool by workers. and technology is going to be used by those trying to lo be send. it isn't going grissman against the corporate loving power for multi nationals, iowa. the boss is going to be using ai to destroy work about yeah, unfortunately, i think the 1st way the boss are going to use a i is just to eliminate jobs. i think that all of the, all of the jobs that are easily automated by a, i are going to be automated by a guy, particularly by bosses that don't care so much about quality and, and in industries that might have thought that they were safe from automation so the, the last wave of automation was in the manufacturing industries,

and now you're going to see a i, automation come for the knowledge industries and the white collar industries where a lot of workers had assume that their jobs were not possible to be automated away . and when he saw the strikes last year in hollywood, among the actors and the, and the screenwriters, a big, big concern of the strikes was how a i was going to be used in the entertainment industry. so those unions are seeing the, the dangers of a i coming down the pike and they're starting to regulate those things and union contracts. and you're really going to see, i think that you need contracts will be the place that due to the firewall and the protections for workers against a guy well before the government is ever able to do it. and so given that the book talks about, the union's being a paramount importance in reducing and equality which has been rising over decades . if unions conte, be as powerful as they used to be. because of all these innovations, like a i,

what else is it going to be disrupt the quality us? well, the only other thing that us that's capable of turning around inequality is, is the government action, federal government action in particular. and i am pretty optimistic about the prospect, i'm sorry. pessimistic pessimistic about the prospects of federal government action doing that because clearly for the past 50 years, the trend lines have been moving in the opposite direction. and so that is one reason why i feel so invested in the success of unions in particular, is that the options out there are very bad outside of building labor power and work or power in the context of unions and allowing working people to claim a larger a larger share of the nation as well for them something else. other than that you're depending on politicians and the track record of politicians is very bad on that front. that's what you're going to quote to kennedy. those who make peaceful revolution impossible being violent temper physician and ever full. while i'm

hoping for peace in any case, how the hell and thank you. thank you about the show, the new book, the how much power inequality and the struggle for this sort of labor is i've now remember we're bringing you new episodes every saturday monday until then keep in touch by the social media. restore the sense that in your country and had to our channel going underground tv on rumble. don't come to what you an old episodes going undergrads. you said the, the, the hello and welcome to cross the full board. here we discussed some real in

the the top story is this our ukranian troops to continue their retreat. while washington express aid package to cab is far from the reality of what the billions of dollars are intended for a mazda says it has no major issues. after considering israel's most recent proposal for along the way to the still and hostage release agreements in gaza as the groups delegation arrives in egypt also have the zillow has been delayed by a number of weeks at this point, and they are hoping to ensure that the ships leap as quickly as possible. protesters in turkey, a rally to support and international april until other gaza and a safe.