they never the as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best most i'll send send the send, the 65 to 5 must be the one else calls. question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin mission, the state on the russia cruising and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for the question, did you say a request, which is the, the, i often say that the c, i a,

is a big, slow, lumbering bureaucracy. it's not the kind of quick moving on mission, super agency like it is in the movies. sure. it's had its share of successes, even a broken clock is right. twice a day is the old saying goes. and at the same time the c i a can be a means plateful and vengeful organization, especially for whistle blowers. and when was of lowers are involved the cia often will not release its breath until the whistle blower is ruined. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 if you're a regular viewer of the show, you know the stories of thomas drake, the n a se whistleblower, jeffrey sterling, the c i, a whistleblower daniel hale. the drone was the blower and edward snowden, who worked both for the c i a and n. s. a, i believe it was so on the sea ice torture program. you know that the c, i a,

comes down on whistle blowers like a ton of bricks. and for those officers whom challenge them and who are found guilty in the see, eyes preferred court. the eastern district of virginia sentences are getting longer and longer. so what is a potential whistleblower to do when he becomes aware that the agency itself is breaking the law or plotting against the sitting president? let's say what happens when a potential was of lower, realizes that the deep state is real and it's dangerous. pedro orta is a highly decorated former c i a officer in his 18 years in the agency. he won 8 exceptional performance awards for his work in the middle east, afghanistan and then the office of inspector general working, ironically, one whistle blower issues. pedro, thanks so much for being with us. thank you so much john for having your show today . the pleasure of mine, pedro, your story is different from the stories of most other c i,

a whistle blowers and snowden, jeffrey sterling. and i spoke to the media about human rights and civil rights issues. that was hard certainly. but i think that you did something that was even more difficult you took on a political issue and you did it from inside the c i a. so let's start at the beginning. this is actually quite a complicated case. can you walk us through it and tell us how this thing developed? there were multiple episodes of instances where i basically spoke truth to power. i was doing my job in disclosing what i recently believe evidenced waste fraud abuse . so for particularly significant and specific endangerment of public safety, i was a manager and awards on the i had very specific guidance from headquarters, from leadership in that particular division. in years of training at the time i went to afghanistan in 2014, i had 6 years of wars on experiences and having worked for a dozen leaders who became high up officials in the director of operations. so i

knew very well what's accepted, what's not accept that. what is right, but it's not right. i was working for a chief of base who turned the base into a social club on steroids. we were making personal moves in times of indirect fire attacks, high threat alerts, and which we weren't shooting not been moving at all unless it was essential movement. we're moving out for yoga classes and stuff for food. and then one of those episodes, we crossed the idea of headstone and 10 minutes later a rocket impacted. uh, and on top of that, there were other issues, personnel issues where a person now one officer was favored over another. so you basically had any going employment opportunity problem, right, which happens all the time. as a manager, there was a liability for the agency if i saw it and i didn't speak up. so all i did was speak up to the appropriate authorities. the psychologist, the, you know,

chief back at the, the station and the end result of me speaking up was i was sent home of course and they basically kept this chief a base in place. and they catered all operations and personnel to cater for her social need. i mean, we were not meeting the military, we were not collecting information for the military. or for that matter, helping the military at all. i had a military officer telling me please, we need to meet with you. we haven't seen you in a week and tom sir, a very busy and then tell them we're busy cooking and viking, but that was the truth. so that was the 1st episode and that led to a roger reprisals. hm. that basically got me. i got to the point that the bureaucratic billing from e o i g human resources and everybody was so severe that i literally went on 2 months leave without pay. and i accepted a joint duty assignment where i went to work for the office of inspector general of

the intelligence community, ironically. and that got me out of that 1st instance. yeah. but the, but there's much more because it, instead of the problem being result. now i own cover that e o is phenomenally broken beyond repair and not only that, but there potentially violating civil rights laws. yes. on top of that, the i jeez plotting to defraud whistle blowers by failing to investigate a legit reprisals and all sorts of conflicts of interest in the office of general counsel literally being a big bully, trying to deny complaints from getting appropriate legal recourse you know, on the one hand, this reminds me of what we saw in cost. what 15 years ago, where you had a chief of base who had never been a manager before, at least not in the director of operations. and. and she had a walk in somebody who volunteered classified information. the walk in turned out to be a counter intelligence penetration from all cater. it happened to be the source is

birthday, and so she big timber cake told security hol let him come around the the metal detector. it's his birthday. after all, nobody paid any attention that he was. he was muttering a law who bought under his breath when he got out of the car and then he blew everybody up and killed 7 of our officers. sometimes the security just goes out the window and then if you have a whistle blower who raises these issues, it's the whistle blower who, who pays the price. it's. it's like the see i never learns. it's lessons even when those lessons are very hard. but this was a cost to scenario. well, it was basically both of these chief of bases were friends. both of these were women that were not qualified to be there. they were highly qualified for other career choices. mm hm. uh, both, both of them had like certain experiences that we cannot a so we,

we have to acknowledge. but particularly this chief of base i was working with, just like the coast of chief of bass, was there to basically make 5 years overseas. exactly. so they can switch career plans. exactly, and that's why they kept her out there. so once this started happening, i guess the next logical question is, what were you able to do about it? you, you saw evidence that the c i a was seeking to undermine as a sitting president eventually, but you're not there yet. right? so you see a breakdown in management. then what did you do? well, i took shelter in the office of inspector general for the intelligence community, and there were other whistle blowers in there who also has taken shelter. me. daniel p meyer is one, and there was a couple of others. they'll send out a se whistleblower as well. that and what happened is, you know, i'm in my environment, working inter agency where i had always shined and excelled here. i am working with

some fine officers from n s a d i a d h s the o d, and i called re employees. and i was working in not interagency team and we started doing an evaluation and to evaluate the enforcement of ppd 19 presidential policy directive 19 whistleblower protections. so in, in our work we find that all we've got is basically ink on paper for the paper of a presidential directive that's not being enforced. and not only is and not being enforced. but the reality is you have people trying to undermine that, trying to water it down, dilute it to make it of no effect, right? and we stuck to our findings and we refused to budge into the pressure of senior level managers in the i c i g of trying to water down to finding saying

that yeah, we got protections in the work. and so eventually what happens is because my attorney had filed the lawsuit against the c. i a under the administrative procedure act. yes. the to compel the c i d to do its job. mind you by law. they had $240.00 days to do a whistle blower investigation. yes, a reprisal investigation. when i 1st reported those facts in april of 2015, the lawsuit was filed in december of 2016. where well past that point, yes the i c i g decides to send me back to c i a in april of 2017, and the c i g has still not done anything in my efforts to get any information. basically came back still under investigation, nothing new to report. so the last it was filed, the i see i did claim i had a conflict of interest and somebody back to the c i o. i go back to the c,

i a for what i call around 2 with the doubles i called see i the pit of hell. shakespeare is quote, how is empty and all the doubles are here because literally it was hell. just the amount of bureaucratic bullying that i was going through all the different offices . i mean jobs were being advertised and re advertised and we advertise jobs that i had the language for it. i had the training, i had the, the work history to basically be able to be given that job. they refused to give me the job and it was just insane. so in this process, eventually what happens is, so i have to escalate and i have to start using the intelligence community was a board protection act. mm hm. i went straight to the i g for the i, c i g. this was the in from my g, wayne g stone and he acknowledged receiving them. i mean, basically tell me as long as you do what you're supposed to do, everything will work out fine. because all this time, i kept everything internally using all those internal processes. because by law,

you're supposed to make an authorized disclosure. that's right. blowing the whistle, that's right. to authorize the officials to authorize channels. i did all that well, when i followed up 2 weeks later about my i c w p, a no response. i followed up no response. i months later, eventually my attorney and i, we crafted a way to get congress interested. the lawsuit was faxed to congress. new congress meant responded back, wanting some details. so we were able to get part of those disclosures to, to congress, but the c i office or congressional affairs began to basically threatened me like you're not supposed to have contact with congress. if you do, you may be fired. basically what they're trying to tell boy, and you know, when i provided to o c a, all the documents i had passed to the i c, i g. they had the audacity to tell me, well,

we don't pass all those things to congress. so they actually with whole things from congress on to this day, i have no idea what congress got, but it didn't, it continues to escalate. it does indeed you were speaking with c, i, a whistle blower, pedro florida about his experience is blowing the whistle pharmacy. busy from the c i a and the damage that comes with both personally and professionally stay tune. we're going to take a short break and come back and talk about his important new book, which we have right here will be right back. the

quint biden's master for an aide package was passed by the us congress. it was met with much fanfare and political bluster. however, as even mainstream media cast out on whether the state will change military realities on the ground, the illusions they would see die hard. the welcome back to the whistle blowers and john kerry. uncle were speaking with former c. i a officer pedro order, who despite his years of faithful service, his 8 exceptional performance awards and his high ethical standards was forced out of the agency. why, for telling the truth, pedro good to have you with us. thank you john. pedro, you have written a very important book entitled the broken whistle, a deep state run, a mock have it here. tell us why you felt compelled to write this book. and how did

and how did you get started? and what was the reaction once you started writing from the c i, i was compelled to write this book because i, as a whistle blower, blew the whistle. and i had to withstand such bureaucratic boeing that eventually what i ended up doing was blowing the whistle on the broken whistle. right. i started escalating, taking this to director mike pill. the dna daniel coats taken you straight to the i g himself trying to make congressional disclosures that went nowhere as if the shredder ate them. and these were 1st hand disclosures the what they ended up doing was sending the officer security as a mafia hit squad to come after me. first they sent a messenger from the director of security himself. be happy, you have a job. oh boy. so they're threatening, you know, they're threatening me like trying to tell me we can take the job away from you. at that point. i go, well, okay, well, the director securities interested. so i actually wrote back saying,

why don't the directors agree? and i need to discuss these issues because they're extremely important. well then they actually sent a hit man, the personal security chief who threatened to take my job from maine and to take my security clients away from me, which would have been the end, not just of your job at the c, i a, but of any career you might have aspired to in washington. exactly. and it was a war with them wells and i refused to break down and i, which did my ground. and so they pulled the perfect plot, surveillance and all that and denied me entry of building. i got kicked out of the building, i got put through the personal evaluation board process, which is basically a kangaroo court because it's comprised of officer general counsel and psychologist 2 offices that were against me. and some of them were trying to claim that i was an insider threat. i wasn't trouble employee for that matter. whatever that board decides, ultimately it's the director of security and his deputy who decide the final outcome. mm hm. so they basically terminated me and fired me. and in this process i

had gone back to the i, c, i g with my i, c, w, p, a's, those lawful disclosures. first hand knowledge me that. and they told me we filed them with this particular form called form 401, which is that infamous form that would come up in the future future. mm hm. so when i finally get around to filing those disclosures, the i c i, d e immediately response for the 1st time and they tell me, well, you're no longer employed so you can no longer file them have a nice day chase. it's incredible. incredible. so that this all compelled me because eventually september 2019 comes around. and now we have the so called ukraine, whistle blower, or making a lawful disclosure using the i c w p, a right using a form that had 2nd hand information here say and from a light. so he wasn't even a 1st hand witness of what happened. now, and all of

a sudden you've got congress interested, you've got the i g pushing forward. you have all this avalanche of help for this individual. mm hm. where's my experience was, they had sent me a form. oh, he's become rich and famous and is now running for congress and you were ruined. so, but basically at that point in time, i blew the whistle publicly through twitter, letting the whole world know they changed the form to weaponized this process to go after trump. and the story is so unbelievable as far as how deep and corrupt this whistle blower redeem is that it compel me to write this book. it i but by the grace of god, i was able to write this in 10 and a half weeks, very intense. and then months of self edits and then professionally copy, edited me professionally, improve read. so a lot of time and money was invested to make sure we have a high quality product. so my time i submitted it to the c,

i pre publication review board. it was tight. well, let me ask you about that. when i 1st wrote my 1st book, i sent it to the c. i is publications review board for clear. it's just like you did. they rejected the entire book. they called the entire book classified and then they actually tried to file a criminal charge against me for it. the bottom line was that it took me 9 months to write my book and then 22 months to get it cleared by the c i. and they ended up taking out a $120.00 pages. that's despite the sweetheart treatment that they gave books written by former c. i a director george tenet, deputy director for operations, jose rodriguez and others who told a, a pro c i a story that you did not tell a pro c i a story in this book. so what was the experience for you? like once you sent the manuscript to the c, i a for clarence the, there's a particular trade craft that i follow. when i wrote this book, the one i knew i was going to have to sell it to the p r b. right?

and in that process, i wrote it in a way that made it very clear that i was not a broken employee, that it's their e e o and what's the process that are broken? yes, and it has severe implications for national security because as we know, it's known and refused to use this process because he knew that if he would use it like thomas drake binion's and others, they were to come after me. so i make a compelling argument that they have to fix these problems in this book. and i wrote it in a way that i did give the i just a credit where they were good at. but i also called out when they were bad at. so they're able to use this book as a means to get a message out that, you know, there are some bad apples at the c i, but at the same time, there are some good people to see. i sure that and last would be i wrote it in a way that made it very obvious that i was going to publish this book. my pro log, the truth must be told. and i made it very clear that the truth needs to get out.

and the truth is going to get out, and i end the book with a prologue who will speak for you when they come looking for you. exactly. i and i make a very strong compelling argument in this book. so what happens is they knew that the book was going to be published. and the moment i submitted it on august 1st, i immediately already launched it live on a website. uh and i also put it available for worldwide distribution with ingram sparks, but not available to be purchased until 19 february 2024. so the book was available online for people to see it. wow. so a kind of a kind of forced them that was a risk to expedite the process. yeah. and they turned it around in 10 and a half weeks. remarkable. what kinds of changes would you like to see at the c? i a, you know, i actually talked about this every once in a while in, in speeches at universities and things like that. if there is, there has to be a c,

i, a, we all want it to be law abiding. do you believe that the c i a is salvageable and if so, how would you change it to a very complicated issue. mm hm. because there are needs for a security establishment for us national security for intelligence collection intelligence operations. but at the same time, how do you balance that with the need for protection of civil liberties and so forth? i mean, the biggest problem we've run into is the political station issue, etc. i me where it's become weaponized against political descent. is it so i would do both. i mean, we can look at certain case studies look at the iraq coalition provisional authority in 2004. the entire saddam hussein regime was deemed to be basically not salvageable, right? so they disbanded all the security elements, the military, and they started from scratch. yes. another approach in columbia, south america,

their f b, i equivalent dash d a s the, but the main domain is that they will, they were caught weaponized in their powers against political opponents. with the wire taps and so forth, they deem they could not salvage it. so the shut it down to start a new one. so where are the breaking point where we really need is a new type of church committee. me with fast powers. to do a, a, just a big general oversight to look at everything and determine what, what is the best way for it. and we also have a lot of redundancy in the intelligence gives you a tremendous amount of collection being done running into each other. yes, d, i a defense, you meant c i a n s a and a say other agencies doing humans? that's true. so, i mean, in reality, there needs to be an assessment of really what are the intelligence needs? and based on the intelligence need reconfigure the intelligence apparatus to meet those needs. you know, i'll add to that too. um, 1st of all,

i think you're exactly right. and i'm going to add something. you cannot have an organization like the c i a that has, however many people it has 203040000 people. i don't even know anymore. and have it overseen by congressional committees that have a dozen or 2000 employees, right? 20 or 25 people cannot oversee something that is 1000 times its size, right? that's not oversight. and that's why on capitol hill, these, these oversight committees become cheerleaders for the c i rather than overseers. i agree with that 100 percent and that's where the problem has been. the senate select committee of intelligence, the house permanent select committee of intelligence have become cheerleaders for the intelligence community and do their bidding. there has been a lack of oversight and i've seen cases where the c, i will skew spin and not tell congress all the details or give them part the

details. but in a way that makes it look like a bad program is good. they manipulate what congress gets. that's right. and the other thing is they control the clearances for all the staffers. that's exactly right. that's exactly right. peter's how this where people can order your book and where they can learn more about the work that you do stuff. i have a website called broken whistle book, broken whistle book dot com. it has links for amazon, barnes and noble, direct links to ingram sparks for hard cover with dust jacket and paper back. it's available and also an e book. so that will be the best way to get the book, or if not just go to amazon or barnes and noble, and you're not in the sea on anymore. so what are you doing now in the past the time i am an ordained minister. i have an itinerant travel ministry, and my website pedro is real, ortho dot com pedro as well or to the com has some details about my minister, real credentials. i've done some evangelism training. i've been to tanza neo for

christ, for all nations. and i've been somewhat sidetracked with the book. i mean, this book has been a full time project for me, how to down, but i look forward to getting back out to ministry work. fantastic. well, thanks again for joining us. appreciate you taking the time to have the conversation. thank you. it's been a pleasure. former c, i a director gina hassle home, many of us called bloody g. now, because of her strong support of the torture programs set in her senate confirmation hearing quote, i would not allow c, i a to undertake activity that is immoral even if it is technically illegal on quote that was a laughable lie. the moment it came out of her mouth, it was under gina has that much of the c i is alleged actions against donald trump took place much if not all of that might have remained a secret, had it not been for paper or he paid for his honesty with his career, but we need more people like him. pedro,

thanks again for being with us. thank you and send you to our viewers for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the the the, the

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the, the have seen the 2 judges who had direct injury to the or brain reduce the snap of shots. and they had brain damage to do that for and officers share stories of children in gaza being deliberately targeted by is rarely snipers, as benjamin netanyahu announced as a ground invasion into rafa. we'll go ahead with or without a p still with some us. also i have the new york police bridge colombia university with pro palestine. protesters barricaded inside as scuffles and the rest to take place to the ivy league institution.