abandoned their homes. so as these declared an emergency in the region, i'm to the brazilian president met with the state governor vine to quote, reduce the separate a hard to election dive in. the states ruptured old rubbish. and so i said, leaving over $300000.00 without electricity, while the land size and the flooding devastated highways. local officials indicated that the torrential rains were treated by a high wind current, the humidity in colorado, from the amazon adams for a brokerage caused by heat waves. the reins assaulted on monday and expected to linger until sunday. a lot of this news as always, a pleasure to have you with us here on opting special duties at all to the com, the address and so is that also it will be back in about 30 minutes. the

i'm actually under 10 c, and welcome back to going underground and the final show of this season. after we've witnessed genocide in this region through the eyes of scholars, politicians and john les couldn't algorithm help the world of its moral catastrophe . the mathematical procedure shows algorithm, promises do 8 solutions to jump, politics, hunger, disease, climate change, even if it may leave the door open for cyber attack on the world's nuclear weapon systems. naturally laid capitalism is investing in it because the leads can honestly, algorithm for the power of physical financial services industry to create will beating investment strategies. political groups meanwhile, could use it to break the encryption on global bank transactions. the formula is shows algorithm its creator is the professor professor of applied mathematics. it

might be peter sure, he joins me now from cambridge, massachusetts, in the usa presence. your thanks so much for coming on alarming that the entire financial system relying on electronic bank payment transactions, nuclear codes, c i a file encryption, ms files. they might be good though for mid sin and joy's for pandemic and diseases. a lot of a lot of stuff is invested in sure was algorithm named off to you. i added simplest . what is your is algorithm. so source algorithm is a way of factoring large numbers using a quantum computer. so quantum computers are these hypothetical devices, which so far are only you only have very preliminary prototypes that show that they will work, but the prototypes are so small,

they can't actually do anything useful yet. but if you know, if they keep on growing the way they have been in the last 20 years, probably in the next 10 or 20 years, they will be able to do useful things. and what shows algorithm is actually, it's a way of factoring large numbers, which needs quantum computers. there's no rush that claims it as a 52 bit quantum computer. by the end of the year, there was a russian $116.00 at the end of 2023. ibm says they've got a 1121 cubic cubic being a unit, a like binary for the old for your laptops, binary switches inside be inside your laptop. explain exactly what a quantum computer is because most people think of their own computers. switching on and off and it's loads of these, which is would simulate sums that make graphics and games and all the other things

that you do on your computer. yeah, so uh to bit is, uh, well, it's basically a quantum binary switch, which means either it's 0 or one. the thing about 2 bits, as they know that they have a classical bed, it's either 0 or it's one. and there is no in between or cubits. uh cubic can be in a superposition of both 0 and $1.00 at the same time. just going to sub have the option as well as more than a 3rd option. that's a whole continuum of options. and you know, at 1st that far, you say, well, what's the use of it being and supervision, and 01 the same time. what can you do with it? well, the interesting thing is that there are algorithms you can do using cubits that you cannot do on a classical computer. and one of these is the one i discovered called shows up with

the ad. it's for factoring large numbers and 2 primes. okay, so we may have to go through another stage before we fully get it to your algorithm . then because the other day microsoft was saying, you figured out a way of error correction in these quantum computers. because if you're going to get a continuum rather than a discrete 0 and a one of the whole point of a laptops is they have systems in there because there's always a mistake going to happen. and there's a way of correcting it. i thought the whole point with quantum mechanics and you might have to explain that to split experiments as well. is that when you identify a particle, you change where it's at. so in your rec, quantum computer, when you find out where the switch is,

you all to where the switch is. yeah, that's right. so um, when quantum computers 1st came out, um, you know, the general a consensus, suppose that you would never be able to build these things because they were impossible to hit correct arrows on. and, you know, quantum mechanics is such a delicate 3 that there is no way of building a quantum computer that will do gates that are absolutely error free. i mean, we still think this true that you can never build a quantum computer with gates that are free, but what's different is that we figured out a way of correcting the errors. so quantum mechanics, if you measure something, you change it state. so if you measure the state of a bottom, peter, in the middle of a computation, the state will collapse and then the computation will no longer be valid,

you valid? so how can you measure errors without correcting them? and if you don't measure errors, how can you possibly know whether you have an error and correct? so the solution to this was to come up with a way of encoding the state of a quantum computer so that you can measure at the error without major in the state that the computer is actually. yeah. and then once you've done that, you know what the error is, you have a distributed computation because you didn't measure the state of the computation, you just measured the state of the error. so now you can correct the error i continue on is usually error related to where this is. well, not if you do it right. if you do it right, there's a state of a computation which is protected by the find them error correcting code. and that

are the errors which apply to the cubits, but do not change the state of the quantum computer. now, if you have a big enough, there are so suppose, you know, suppose you have an error correcting code, you should have an error correcting codes to allow to you to correct safe by the errors at once. but if you have one of these and you get 7 errors, then that is going to change the status of your quantum computer. but if you have a 5 error code and you only get 5 errors, then you're fine. you're correct. there's and keep on with the computation. ok, well back to the algorithm. then we're not advising people who have access to nuclear weapons systems to investigate, to show us how good them, uh, with respect to them. but at the moment, with normal computers, you can't break into the c, i a or whatever, because of cryptography. why?

what is, what are the reasons why you can't break into a code, say that edward snowden released to the world, that we were all being bugged, or whatever he had access to the documents. to break into the judgements you'd have to require the length of the life of the universe. so something to be able to break into it. why is that group dog or feet so strong? but why is it's a week in the face of your algorithm? so i guess before around 1975 or so if you know, if you had, if you wanted to predict the secret and you wanted to communicate by so good code to somebody else you needed to have gotten together with the other person and exchange the secret key and if you both have the secret key, then you can, one person can encode the message using the secret key and the other person can

decode it is what, what side of it and telegram and facebook messenger, all the social media apps used today as much i think yeah, but, but they, um, but you know it's, it's really cumbersome and awkward and too expensive to exchange secret keys, but every one you're communicating with. so 3 people, i guess we're best should. we're an edelman. i figured out how to exchange messages without using secret keyes that both people know and these are called public key, click the systems and they are basically the basis of most communication today. i don't know that, but they're used for protecting nuclear secrets and things like that. but i know banks how many um, you know,

why are they so secure this process? okay, so they're so secure because um, if you suppose you have 2 prime numbers like 11 and the 17, i can take eleven's and 17 and multiply them together and get $187.00. but suppose i give you 100 p, so it's much more complicated to take 187 and back to it and learn it. so 11 times 17, actually with 187. it's not so complicated. but if you had a 100 digit product primes, it's much more complicated had if you have a 300 digit product of primes, the fastest computers in the world don't know how to do it efficiently. so and what the rest should be or in hillman did was they came up with

a code so that in order to encode something, you can multiply 2 number 2 prime numbers together and get the product and use that as the basis of the criptos system. but to decrypt the system without knowing the 2 factors that gave rise to this prime, you need to factor this large number into primes, and that is, you know, basically impossible for computers today. so this is why our essays use so much. now i showed that if you have a quantum computer, you could factor numbers much more efficiently than on a classical computer. so the number of steps on a quantum computer per factoring a large number is essentially not much more than the number of steps it takes to take 2 numbers to get to take 2 numbers and most buy them together to get this

large number. so that means that you hope you have find them computers as a public key cryptography is no longer secure. and before anyone thinks that this is just a break into secret codes, even if it isn't in the public interest. the factoring in the primes of big numbers is an important concept in the whole of life on a, even genomes, dna proteins and met. i think you got that a little bit long. so factoring large numbers into primes is really, is not very important. the scheme of things. what is important is that quantum computers can solve quantum mechanics problems very quickly. and you

may not think that's important. but when you realize that, you know, chemistry is a quantum mechanical problem. designing drugs is a quantum mechanical problem. building new superconductors that start conducting a larger temperatures than ever before is a quantum mechanical problem. and if you could solve those quantum mechanical problems, you could really make great strides in our knowledge and a useful um technology and other things provides a visual. i'll stop you the more from the award winning computer scientists and divisor of shows algorithm off of this by the

end of the day. that's just letting you think. he said that then you can put them in. so facade indeed, and then put them in the car here to do it, assuming that the, to look into intermedia cairo is the most of the i'm seen, send the most of the, to the,

the most in the yellow, the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the award winning can be designed as an advisor show as albert and professor peter sure. the present show we were talking about, or you would correcting me about the fact that it's going to mechanics not too much was algorithm in the factoring a prime is that good solver? so many problems in health care and who knows? who knows what else of funding on basic science in your country, the united states is the lowest, isn't the lowest for 2 decades. presumably in favor weapons funding or something. is that because policy makers don't understand the potential of quantum mechanics and they don't understand what possibilities quoted mechanics offers or they're trying to cover it up. know, i'm sure they know china covered. oh, is it very expensive to research?

actually, quantum computing has a ton of money for it right now it's and that of course is presumably because it's useful for um, one of mechanics is also useful for cryptography. what doesn't have a lot of money is that more basic basic science? so i think they think of quantum computing as applied science, which is actually it's still pretty far from applied, but it gets classified that way by the policy makers. so if you're trying to, um, why don't know, understand the biological pathways and molecules that might be hard to get funding for that. of course, that is something that could profoundly affect medicine. so yeah, the policy makers are putting more money into more applied science and less money into the very basic science which may lead to

a deficit of knowledge about basic science. which could be very, you know, and this knowledge could really be useful for many years. and the future. yeah, millions of dollars going into that into that end of it. not at the beginning and just um, try and explain to the layman like myself. why or how one would write a program for a quantum computer because they probably code is out there thinking of how you write a little piece of code for a laptop. how do you, how do you write the basic computer program? honda sing quantum mechanics in a quantum computer. well, it's not so horribly different from reading programs for laptops. so what a platinum computer does is it applies want them gates,

which are really, you know, i guess control tulsa's if this then that yeah, things like that. so, to cubits and the basic um you know, and the basic control pulses are like i guess control not gates which say if this is a one negate this other bit too bad and if this is a 0, leave it alone. and things like rotate this cubit to buy 90 degrees and some basis. and um, and you can rotate things by 90 degrees because well, because 2 bits are continuous, so they don't just have 2 options. rotating it by $180.00 degrees would be and they're getting it so well they get by 90 degrees is the square root of negating it,

which is something does. it doesn't exist on classical computers. so what you need to do is you need to come up with a way of are giving these elementary commands that make the computer do what you want to do. and you know, just like classical computers, you have programming languages which take the sequence of steps that you want, but what would be the don't actually do and break them up into elementary gates. and i guess the difference is that there are some constructions, one computing which don't exist in classical computing. you make it sound so simple . why is it so difficult to construct a even a simple quantum confused event? what are they made off silicon? well, there are at least 3 or 4 different things they're made of. so

one way you can do one of the computing, so for compete for a q, but you need to you need a 2 state system which is either say on our, of our spin up or spin down or something like that. so and i end traps. the basic element is an ion and you use the electronic state of an ion and one state. this is 0 kind of another state because a one. and you manipulate these states in 2 ways. one way is by shining lasers on them and that will change the state of a single ion. and then the other way is if you have to i as in the am trap, there is a vibrational mode of the ion trap were all behind. so moving back and forth at once. and what you can do is you can shine the laser tune to the right frequency,

the couples, your electronic state of the eye on to this, back and forth motion. and then couples this back and forth motion to a different ion, and that makes the 2 ions interact. and that gives you a gate between these 2. i have these 2 cubits. so that's ion traps. and you know, there you have these little silicon chips and you have these little groove in them and in the grooves, you arrange electromagnetic fields to hold your ions. and another um you know, another similar method is neutral items where you have a very similar to high end traps, but you have neutral, adams, so they are not charged. and again,

they're held in traps and you can use lasers to manipulate their quantum states. and there's a completely different method which is superconducting cubits. and there you have a chip with some superconducting material, i guess the positive on it to sort of silicon chip with the sabrina thing material and the super conducting material. you have little integrated circuit elements called trance minds and a 0, there was a magnetic flux going around clockwise kind of one, there's a magnetic bucks going around the counter clockwise and manipulate these by how, basically electronics. okay, well i mean, is it, it seems relatively copper and simple yet mckinsey, very controversial log we, consultancy firm says it only about 5000 quantum computers by 2030. so what,

why is it going to take so long to get even a basic cubit computer like the one you just described, the maybe only 10 so which is maybe you can do much with that on the market. yeah, well i mean 1st if there's only time keep, it's only a 100 cubits or maybe even only a 1000 cubits. you really cannot do anything with your quantum computer because like a ball through thousands relate to is it right? yeah, it's not even as good as a poppy calculator, but um, because to do i mean for a while we thought that without error correction you still might be able to do something on the quantum computer. but it's looking more and more like to do anything is going on quite a bit because we do need care oppression. and to do error correction of the quantum computer as you need to build um,

i guess curve reckoning codes and find both color incorporations on them. and the best ones we know about you something like a 100 physical cupids, for each logical cubit. so suppose you wanted to do a calculation with a 1000 cubits. well, these would have to be logical cubits. so you'd need a $100000.00 visible cubits to do it. and i mean, we're haven't even gotten a 1000 cubits on the computer yet. so i'm a really you need and to scale up to a 100000, probably going to take at least 10 years and probably longer temperatures algorithm, it requires one in the 10s of millions. i think it's right to show the algorithm well shows out. actually, there is a recent discovery that says you can do shows algorithm with fewer then cubits than we thought before. and this is no oh,

then re gift came up with this. but it still is going to take an enormous number of cubits to even to biggest inflation of choice algorithm. and as you know, obviously the biggest are in these vendors, the pentagon over there and military. uh i m i t, uh famously uh you know, no, i'm jumps, case worker was funded by the military. ironically, a, do you think there are the dangers that the defense you're going to be using? shows algorithm together with the what do you on most because been wanting about profit driven a i a to create a little power of a tiny elite. um, well i'd be more worried about the to, um just the

a guy that shows up with them because um, it's not clear yet whether i mean, so people, lot of people are studying want of a guy. but it's not at all clear to me that quantum computers do anything to improve a i and you know, there's lots of papers, bridges about this, but so far i haven't seen any real convincing demonstrations that why don't we do is computer is going to prove a guy, so it could take a while before this happens, just the finally will all these uh, quantum computers be able to help solve via radical uh, solutions doubt, standing mathematical problems the, the still haven't been solved and they've been set, say a 100 years ago. i think it's possible that maybe one or 2 of these problems could

be solved by one computer, but i think most of them are not going to be amenable to quantum computers and you just need a very clever mathematician to come along. so find a solution. so will they have mathematicians in, in their work? um so the secret rather, you know, little know and secret about quantum computers is it, for most problems, quantum computers are absolutely no help at all. so you just have to have the right problem to have it solved by a math which isn't with the quantum computer. and probably one of these outstanding open problems will be solved this way, but most of them won't a progressive visual a thank you. thank you very much. it's been a very interesting conversation and that's the file show this season. we're back

very soon, but until then we'll be broadcasting some of your favorite episodes of the season. you still keep in touch of old social media is not sense in your country and i do i channel going on the run tv, all normal. don't come to what's new and old episodes going on the ground, continued condolences to those very by you can us, you, i'm boning and palestine, lebanon, him and syria and iraq. we'll see you versus the of your crime. never transitioned out of the 90s. county politics of the 90s continued or the what all the way for the articles to go see the crime that i never had a breach of trust. you come in with some stability is the power all site

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