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tv   Going Underground  RT  May 6, 2024 9:00pm-9:31pm EDT

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most of then died 6 was incredible genocide. the sooner it had to welcome back to going on the ground broke out single around the world from the middle east. today, the so called world cool to gain puts the u. s. u u k. on israel, on trial for another genocide like case, tens of thousands, mostly women and children have been killed by nature weapons in gaza, while russia and china repeatedly vote to the un security council for sci fi. egypt is now wary of his riley ethnic cleansing of more than a 1000000 palestinians at the rough crossing. it's opposed in public, even by joe biden, and his western european proxies whose bottoms have now attacked. iraq, syria,
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human lebanon and palestine professor at the time was given the lifetime achievement award by the british academy, author of the new book, 3 wills, memoirs of an arab. julie's emeritus professor of international relations at oxford university consisted one of israel's new historians. you joins me now from oaks with. thank you so much for visitors trying for coming on the show. so. well, i used to be with you. you said that the industrial scale small as a may have taken israel to the verge of committing genocide. why the verge on want evidence you so far? i've seen in recent days as well, because i made this comment by some time ago when there was some doubt. but today, i have not hesitate action in saying that what user id is doing does all amounts to genocide. genocide is defined by the prevention of genocide. convention is the attempt intestinal attempt to destroy info
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oh you taught and they actually grew. and this is precisely what israel is doing. and for some time these really is been consuming estimates ending on the west bank. and now they want to to the ethnic tendency of guys as well. and the forcible displacement of civilians is a whole crime. so that can be no doubt about the fact that p 0 has been committing all crimes by telling civilians to against the will. and i'm the one to 2300000 people in gun. so israel has already forced 1 of them to move south north ones, but 1st the 0 to the civilians can move from south to the center then from the
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center to the south. then further, instead of south and miles out, most of the civilians to block a 1000000 in the prop, concentrated in rafa on the border full of egypt. so best thing cleansing is beyond dispute. um, uh general aside, some people may dispute, but the lady is riley. next, the holocaust study, it said that this is the smoke k textbook case of general song. and you don't have to listen to the expense or to me, look at the ruling of the international court of justice, which said that south africa has made implausible case of genocide. yeah, i want to get on the return to is rarely the 2nd. but then if it is, then obviously the last holocaust was involving germany, co conspirator cases,
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then, i mean, no one is acting as of the genocide convention mandates. does that mean an open the way for britain snack and and bite and in the united states and those live on the land, as co conspirator has given day of pouring the weaponry without which the genocide could not take place. that i believe is a breach in and other european countries while supplying is rather with weapons. countries saved in euro's war crimes. that is for america, i'd like to go further and say that the america is not just country states in these ways. you will, cries any in genocide, but the very cases, the enabler of use wally gym assigned. and i say these for 2 reasons. one is that the international community um the while ago wanted
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to order the complete a comprehensive ceasefire. and there was a resolution to that you said in the security council. so if you members voted for the resolution, beecham, i've stayed, and the united states use the veto and um, and be to this resolution. so we could just have a ceasefire. but for america, who prevented the ceasefire. and secondly, america continues to supply weapons and relations to israel. and america could threaten to withhold with them, said munitions. and these are a lot have no choice, but to stop the fighting. so the very top is doubly guilty of obviously patient active participation in the israeli genocide in
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gaza. then it is probably for this reason that joe biden is on himself and unique day, which is a genocide. jo. well, as you know, they are quite open about the fact in the united states and still bug of nature that this will improve the job situation in the, in the united states, increasingly scarred by disparities of power and wealth. actually comparisons between the nazi war economy and the massive pumping of billions of tax dollars into the united states economy in terms of manufacturing artillery shells with which to mass murder, children in the middle east. it's this not to make any comparisons between nazi germany and israel. it's best to look if he is or us read code and america's
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record. it's bad enough. so we don't need to draw any comparisons. and we don't need to exaggerate the scale of these really destruction income age in the guys a split street is for the american or economy. it's always being the case that the weapons manufacturer is well located in the south of the united states and republican areas. love israel, because america, do you see a stroke $3800000000.00? a milli create a here. so this means the american tax, this money goes to use, wrote as a grow and comes back as a proceed to the american military industrial complex. that's number one, number 2, because the cell is with the state of the art equipment, the other states,
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one can we address the balance of cash out to some extent, and therefore, buying american weapons. so if somebody makes a profit off the floor and it's the warlords, they, it's the military. industrial complex in america, which is always supported, was everywhere. for this reason. they supported the war, montgomery style and they supported the invasion or from you out in 2003 iraq later on because you were born. the reason i mention the not jesus because genocide that the world quoted so ready to learn to all of the, not the experience of, of course, i mean we're lender of was one the prior occasion. but of, of course, it's the cause that costs the shadow when one starts talking about genocide is 81 years since the was we'll get through uprising
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a 10th of those who are being killed and guys of what killed. of course, the use of the word resistance in the, in the way media talks about it in britain where you live. how do you see the debates about what is justified is resistance for some reason your, your prime minister. so now continues to say is realize the rights of self defense, which because it doesn't given it's an occupying power. do you think they understand the historical perils? i promised the did not see comparison question. do they understand the historical barrels with the war? so get through uprising they must be, it will be the north of dust and the town is, uh, but no, do they understand the international which is quite clear on the subject, but sooner i can stop uh, repeat, however, like what the items says. they never move,
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i'm really made to from the american position and they keep repeating the israel has the right to defend it so that he doesn't because i'm to international. ready that you have the right to defend you also, if you are attacked by the state. but thomas is not a state. secondly, um, if the a tech comes from an area that you occupied, then you don't have the right to self defense. to put it simply, you don't have the right to self defense against the people that your chris, i'm more of a, it's a mouse. if the palestinian student goes out, who have the right to release of the occupation,
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including the resistance. so international law is quite clear that the 0 doesn't have the right to self defense. in this case, what's the state of freedom in your country? because you're an eminent scholar at oxford university. i've talked to other oaks and professors on this program actually, who i talk about the scale of debate events and help them they sit in in britain. what is your understanding of the freedom of speech in britain and in western europe given? you mentioned storm a globally, people that know who he is, but he's the person who was promoted by jeremy colbin. the then leader of the opposition labor policy and who says the things, things like what you being telling me in this interview are anti semitic user is mounted. the global campaign to d, legitimize the supporters of the vs, or quote divestment sanctions,
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which is the global rudsford don't pay to end the occupation. and this is a long violent global civil society campaign. it's non violent. i stress that all the main, the minds of the this in trying you mean to national the right of free to, of the 1948 refugees, the right of a senior citizens of the state of israel to uh, uh, a quote to equality. and um, and then the 1st few patients, it's the most important bonke. well, he's, i am trying to name connection a little, but he's well and it's many friends around the world's point that i'll conducting a campaign against critics a p as well. and the width of my eyes and the somebody please them and embraced
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them very uh, the government has adopted the international total cost memorial association definition off semitism. and it's a non definitely nation. it's completely vacuous. and the definition itself is useless. it doesn't define anything but then a series of 11 examples or from a list of what made a cost acute county semitism and $711.00 examples relate to you through the a of these definition is not to protect you is a game. so i have to send me to them, but protect israel against legitimate criticisms of the occupation. so i could say maybe as being weapon i in your, in germany in america ending the united kingdom and the government in this country . there's time down on pro palestinian products, professor ivy shy,
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miles stuff you've asked for from the author of 3 worlds. memoirs of an arab due after this break the, the, the the,
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the welcome back to going on the garden. i'm still here with america's professor international relations at oxford university professor ivy shribel through 3 wills ma'am, was when i heard you present time, we said in but one we were talking about this conflation of anti semitism as designed as either fact. clearly, those countries that express solidarity with the palestinians, suffering your birthplace, bagdad was bought them in the past few days, weeks by british and american. the bomb is a, syria,
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or of course is being bombed. gammon has mean bombs. it's even more serious for countries that express all of that already. then for scholars there, i said, any examples that you personally have had that you witness a lack of freedom and you're not being able to speak on these the issues or are you given free reign in the british media to tell us about your views as regards what we're witnessing as regards the gaza jealous, like, i mean, i have been the professor international relations have talks that over the last 36 years and no um, it's my university as a try to restrict my freedom of expression and i still enjoy. ready is i've always enjoyed complete freedom to express my opinions as i am doing to you in this interview now. but the general picture in the country is not so signs.
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we know the general picture is that the british government is extremely repressive and it keeps bossing legislation, even though the truth strict freedom of expression on israel and the palestinian issue and the goblin keeps giving the police powers to come down on pro palestinian purchased the government but there was a nature major pro, but his protest in london a few weeks ago. and i went with my wife and my daughter. they were something like 800000 demonstrators. i do see, i mean, hey, so she knows all those. those are very good spirited off for our friend displayed, or solely diety, with the palestinians, both of them on 6th street. so a brother of mine said the piece was i think to mount and she wanted the police
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stop them out the police to the refuse to. so we have an extremely repressive government, which is the enemy of civil rights and which is a blind support or if he is a dr. young quickly to support a fee as well. and that is a situation here today i have and i cannot complain that nicely them it has been restricted, but i've also had one encounter which is kind of super seem to my take off the going in toner is off both supporters of palestine in this country i was invited to give a lecture, but we have a portal hope university on the subject of my moss. and the title was design is and the use of the rock personal
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perspective, the beauty of skill and narrow copy. and yet the jews even leave a poor complaint to the university. i'm sorry to use that this would be on safe and it raised my top would raise appropriateness of safety. and the university didn't ask me to cancel the lecture, but they asked me to postpone it. and i would find right away, i said, butcher, i wouldn't come now. and i was never time to go university because this is not an issue of safety. it's an issue of economic freedom. so academic freedom in britain is being eroded all the time for critics of israel info supporters or from palestinian right. and the best example i can give you of these trends in britain is the decline and fall off. jeremy colby,
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the previous lead to the labor party who was praying, who was accused of 2070 piece and what was an empty racist downpayment all these life into the opposing anti semitism. there wasn't any evidence the gays to happen, so it is, he's actually mean he's been on this program and arguments of he started firing people that were close to him on those fake, to jump to bad. these images and charges it has to be said on israel. again, one of the arguable founding minutes was that it was a safe place for jews. so do you think actually, given israel is now giving me the most dangerous plays in the world would use? do you think that we on the some see minds are really nothing yahoo and those who enable his government in the they conflate, being jewish with being is riley. i do think that and
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let them know who is a very good example of this combination because many of his friends i can see might like greek to open in hungry like the previous government imposed on the previous government in brazil. these went on to see mites, but the pro israel and therefore let them yeah. who doesn't care about anyone, please anti semitic, as long as the pro is riley. and this reminds me of something that them feel to hurt. so the vision, really, if they drew state road to my evenings diarrhea at the end of the 19th century, he said the mtc minds will become of the strongest supporters. and we have seen this phenomenon today at that israel
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that got mixed up with very nasty company. and this is a slightly different point. these real supplies um, um inside the um, equipment. and um, you stopping equipment on photos to, along to it and drove countries on the world, including including some of the most repressive regimes. so these are plays a global ro is supplying weapons. and spyware, too, so large range of from, to actually some trees you write about your background in baghdad, in your latest book, what does it make you feel? knowing your government in britain is bombing iraq. again, i am absolutely horrified by british policy
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towards these rarely palestinian country. and this is just one example of the contemporary example. but it's a whole swedish policy towards the israeli. palestinian conflict is doesn't this computer also is computer rubbish? it doesn't make any sense. because peter says that the 2 penalties should negotiate directly the resolution of the conflict between them. that's the home being any peace stokes for 10 years israel, the president galvan refuses to have any peace stokes. and we've the palestinians. and to say the 2 parties should get together and resolve the differences is like putting a lion in, arrive between the cage and telling them to sort out the differences, the 2 state solution. you have changed your level now and recognize that actually
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only a one state solution is possible. what do you feel and people completely ignore the idea of a one state solution and continue to as joe biden does as a nature of nation. leaders continue to do what is wrong with them going on and on about this 2 state solution. i used to support the 2 state solution which would have given the nature of justice to the palestinians. and since 1967, this being the broadest possible international consensus between the 2 states behind the idea of a 2 state solution, it has become fashionable to say that the two's said solution is dead. it is indeed dead because these ro, community, these are up to date by building supplements and expanding supplements on the west
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bank and by an exceed east jerusalem. and by building the circle separation wall on the west bank, the separation war is closed behind the apartheid war. so use rel, eliminated the cost of the p. o for variable palestine estate, all the to the left of the products. females on the west bank is inc. have surrounded by use, regularly settlements and military bases. so i say my starting point, now you said this 2 state solution is dead and these are all has to be a good for her to say. the 2 state solution was never bone. it was never born because nobody's really done when since 1967 as a offered a palestinian state on time,
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such would be acceptable to the most moderate understand leader the 1st of all. and secondly, no american government is a push this through into a 2 state solution. so this is just a convenient phrase for people like buying them. some of them delayed and they keep you on about the 2 state solution. but the reality is that you come to have a 2 state solution and that's why i have change my views. and now i support the projects solution to this conflict, which is one state from the jordan river to do me to a nancy with equal rights. equal rights for all the citizens, regardless of nationality, office needs to be all religion. yeah, i think the only way i think you are a police force is over there. don't seem to realize that the, from the river to the c means for jews, christians and muslims, is just, finally,
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you mentioned the apartheid will. nelson mandela strategy was of course violence, and the great mount you bridge on the peaceful, much great, but you were to and resulted in tens of thousands killed by us, u. k. you um the weapons at that border, a blog type will what, what would you do if you were a palestinian teenager right now in gaza? would you, would you go with mandela? would you go with guntee? it would go. we've monday the um, and i would put my trust, you know, civil society because i have no confidence that the western governments would change the position on israel. but there is a gap. there is a disconnect between wisdom governments in the publics. the publics are
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increasingly pro palestinian, the demonstrations around the arab world, and these nomic with the rest of the world in support of the palestinians. so public opinion shifting very, very dramatically now because of the genocide in gaza against these around any pharaoh for further spin use. and therefore i would, um, um uh, i think that the steam is the only who, or the best hope is that public opinion will continue to change. and the international criminal court will take action. we're to seriously investigational real crime scene the occupied territories. and that the international court of justice will eventually issue an opinion which would told israel to be guilty of genocide. professor,
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every sign. thank you you. that's it for the sure. well continued condolences to those surviving the getting and guys of jerusalem 11 and iraq, him and, and syria will be back with the brand new episodes and saturday until then keep in touch by will that social media or if it's not sensitive in your country and add to our channel going underground tv, hon, don't com to let you handle the episodes of going underground. so is that the more expensive? and i'm going to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show search like why watch something that's so different opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please do the have the state department to see i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead,
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change and whatever you do, don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you, i'm comfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, it's not, we don't want to watch it because it might just change the way inside the, the.

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