steve, we're never going to change them on something and never change their minds about video. they think i was wrong. and that's it. the i'm action or times. you're welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world, from the middle east, 24 hours ahead of his rails plan deadline for prisoner released by hamas. otherwise threatening. would it be, has to be a total extermination of the people of gaza as the holy month of ramadan begins. all this is us, president joe biden continues to supply weapons through his regular head of a u. s. presidential election that may very well see for my president, donald trump hardly facing for criminal trials back in the white as one of the world's most famous lives who has defended julian assigned daniels, but donald trump, mike tyson, and will controversially jeffrey epstein harvey weinstein, and o j simpson,

his friend of is really pm that in yahoo, professor island, joshua it's, he's emeritus professor at harvard law school and his, the older 2 new books get from the threat to civil liberties, due process and our constitutional rule of law and war against the jews. how to end time? us barbarism. he's in miami, florida. thank you so much advertising graduates. we're coming back on before we get to gaza. i mean, how do you feel about the state of democracy in the usa will be at the supreme court? the verdict was one you'd probably would agree with, given these attempts to prevent the u. s. as leading opposition lead a drum from being elected president lin running and in november, i know you were supported by them in case anyone thinks your grades of what your donald trump as well uh, in my past i award bananas uh on a scale of $1.00 to $10.00 toward a banana republic, and i had gotten up to 6 bananas based on the 4 charges that were made

against donald trump. but when the supreme court refresh the colorado case, i eliminated one of the banana. so we're down to 5 now. and i hope we don't get up to 6 or 7 democracy is at risk of both from the election of donald trump and also from attempt by trumps enemies. to assure that voters can't vote for him, or that he is not on ballots or is prosecuted before the election. so i see trach from the democracy on all sides just for our international audience. explain how victoria is donald trump, but the outcome you wouldn't want if uh, if you one like socialist eugene debs, he could still become president and pardon himself while he was in jail. but then there would be a problem if it was a federal conviction, as opposed to state conviction. what exactly happens? but we can't pardon itself mistake conviction. so if there is a conviction or even new york or fulton county, florida,

he couldn't pardon himself. and the law is not clear as to whether he could pardon himself from a federal prosecution, but nobody knows the answer to that question. and it's unlikely that he would try to do it. but he probably would not be sentenced to serve a prison term while he was president, if he was convicted of a serious offense and then elected president. and he'd probably be able to serve his terms president and then faced possible imprisonment thereafter. a yeah, more unprecedented stuff. uh meanwhile, um binding. uh well the authorities just as department of trying to get julian assigned to the united states despite the opposition of all the journalists all around the world, the australian government, the german government. i understand that you defended daniels bugs the late den. elizabeth is being on this program, things worse than the 1970s, given what's happening to judy and assigned his health as he was tortured in

britain, according to the un, special are up to it is much worse. i was one of the lawyers on the pentagon papers case and there is we stuck, people were treated with the degree of decency assigned has really been made a horrible martyr to free speech. and i'm honored to have been part of is legal defense team. and if we use extra guides the united states, i hope i can help him avoid prosecution. i think he has a strong case. remember he's the one who stole any secrets like daniel ellsberg good. he's more like the new york times. he publish them and the new york times wasn't even prosecuted galesburg was, but eventually the case was one. but i don't think i son should be prosecuted for publishing material that other people provided to him. and when he gave them to, to any of the, the, any grand jury in virginia as well. you don't get an attorney in front of the grand jury,

but the attorney can say outside the grand jury room and he can come out and ask up questions. um, but the real question is will we be confined pending a resolution by the grand jury and he's been to find far too long. already i met him in england before he was confined and he seemed to be in far better health and spirits. then he was after we went into the ex, during embassy, and then in find and he's likely to, we can find in the united states. and that would be too bad. i mean, he comes as close to being a political prisoner as we have had in a long time in the united states. and so again, i represented many political prisoners in, in my life ranging from nelson mandela to not tundra for ascii. and i'm honored to continue to defend political prisoners of, of, of every stripe and background against the pressure of government persecution. well, actually, mandela may be relevant here to the usa, sending accuser persecuting truth tellers or publishers preventing democracy as

a trying to attack their opposition leader being led according to a special counsel by mentally ill, the president and, and now people across the world in the, in the not in the nato, a nation countries, arguably saying that the united states, as a co conspirator, in genocide you've written a new book where you talk about you talk about the october 7th. the taxes being totally unjustified. does the book didn't mandela justify his, the bombing of restaurants as the, in the apartheid struggle as a perfectly part of the struggle that is required to overthrow regimes on the basis of their apartheid systems. and he was wrong to do so, and he apologized for doing so and stopped using that kind of terrorism against civilians. i think the deliberately willfully targeting civilians,

particularly for rate, which is what happened. and when, when i'm ice crush over the boat or the u. n. is now confirmed that there were rapes and sexual atrocities, and yet there were some of the still who still denied that there would be headings . i had dinner with a man whose son was be headed and they are homeless opportunities just tried to sell his son's head is guys up to $10000.00 before it was retrieved. so there's no comparison between what happened. yeah, the u. n. report premium, a path and this we collected no evidence to support any of the claims, unfounded in, interact, inaccurate forensic evidence is collected by on train volunteer 1st responders. there was, this would be you and report this week not to potentially valuable evidence, wasn't there. you an expert statement said uh, well, actually you inexpensive said we're particularly distressed by repose, about a simian women and girls in detention of being subjected to multiple forms of

sexual assault. and that's what they've been headed may be story. we now know that these really government had to admit it had no evidence of what the claims by nicole is the deck of the i 24 news and repeated by, by them. but then we'll back by the, by the white as well. i mean, the photographs that proved conclusively that women were rate, that they were shot in their vaginas that their breasts were cut off. i've spoken to the man. yeah. who does around has their photographs. yeah. their photographs and i've seen them and they're there. why did you know give it to the you and are they are on voice and it is really well the you and officially says there is none. there is no eyes there's. there's nobody of that occurred in israel is equivalent to a holocaust. and i are of you cannot deny the reality. there were rapes from us, a brag about it, a moss was proud of it. and if you start denying the reality of rate

and the reality of this young man, i'm not talking about babies. this young man, 19 years old, who was be headed moosehead, was offered for sale. there's a boy and i've got a good contradicted evidence. and as you remember, another thing the head of home are seeing why was found to have said he does not want a ceasefire. he thinks that if israel kills more civilians, that bahamas cause will be strength. and he will, i think the see fires rather than negotiations over the hostages on both on both sides. but we're just back to this. i raped stuff because the big headed babies stuff isn't even talked about. i said above it, but it says clearly in the united nations report, it was determined by the un mission team. the crime scene had been altered, viable, misquoted, the bodies moved expanding the separation of the body of the girl from the rest of the family. are you seeing, or maybe you're seeing a altered photographs, gosh,

you're just not telling the truth, the un and you you and the trust, apologies to view is for the audio coming out of that old professor judgments. but we will continue when it comes to israel, because they're very anti israel. same organization that called zionism, racism, but even the un said. but it was clear and convincing evidence of right, very strong evidence of rake very. and that was after discounts. all this, the evidence is clear. why deny it why become a holocaust, they're not there. why deny? that's in. we'll watch the uses human shields and he wants israel to kill as many palestinian babies as possible because that helps home us in the court of public opinion, palestinian, how much leaders have bragged about the use of children and women as human shields . they have okay, i just have to say, i just have to say, oh, i only see i'm off to deny any of these a be headed babies. these, these are raped claims and i have to say the united nations,

i'm reading the u. n thing here. the latest report which has they didn't find actual evidence for that, but on your human shields point, i mean, i know, and you and your book, you cool amnesty international. so i'm kind of apologised for how something, but you know that there is no evidence a tool for human shields. rent easy. and yet seeing that repeatedly said that there was no human shields or not, bobby, with the situation and quite the opposite. it's the is riley's use of human shield, palestinian human shields. you from one of the leaders are from us uh 5 to ahmad of to the power of city and people. death is becoming industry which women excel as a people living on those who i'm to hold on the heads of a mass. i'm not talking about operatives dropped me. this is why they have formed human fields of the women, the children, the elderly animals. yeah. diane, in order to check alan's design, is bombing machine. it is,

is if they were saying design, does that mean? what do you desire just like you desire? like there is a videotape of these words coming out of his mouth. you can be a rated i, or you can be a hot snyder, but you cannot be a human shield. and i are because there are multiple leaders of almost who have brag about the use of babies and children, and women as human shields. you take that word over amnesty international ass, which is a conclusively, there is no evidence for these are human jails. the amnesty international filed a report of the harvard amnesty international group on october 7th, saying that the killings were all the fault of israel. and that how mos, uh, did not do anything improper. no, i don't trust them to stay international at all. i trust photographs, who are you going to believe the photographs or you're lying eyes who you believe the video tape of the liter or from us. now this video tape was not used by

understands and national when issues they denial that human shields were being used . okay. well, lumen fields are being used. so people know photographs that have been publicly available, but to propose or advertisements. i'll stop you that i'll just, i'll stop you the more from the merits as professor at harvard law school and pulled a little. i have little jump engineer designers. after this break, the

in 1941 with the nazis health relation, ultra nationalists, the massages claim, the independent state of croatia. shortly on the seizing power. they built the scene of us concentration camp a place associated with the was the trustees committed in yugoslavia during world war 2. use dashes, use the cam system to isolate and exterminate subs, roma, jews, and other non catholic minorities, and political opponents of the fascist regime. conditions in the scene of us come when the gods tortured to arise and the prisoners they send them the concentration camps. so most of them died. it was incredible genocide. the

welcome back to going on the ground. i'm still here with the full of the trump lloyd america's professor at harvard law school in alter the new book war against the jews have to end how mass is barbarism. pres island jesuits, we were talking about, well, you said you have photographic evidence alpha the atrocities on october the 7th. but now that we have a upwards of tens of tens of thousands of children, palestinian skilled. you haven't changed your mind at all about what is going on, even though the country is, which is the buying the weapons to israel. clearly the populations that the populations in the united states, daily auto running against israel, a wide strace in my view because of the numbers. let's take the numbers. let's assume the palestinian authority. that is how mazda is right, that there are $30000.00 totally killed. they don't distinguish between civilians that combines 13000 according to israel, our direct combatants that leave 17000. we then have to deduct from that the number

of people who've been killed by eric rockets, for example, the one that was sent to the hospital. we know hundreds will killed by and islamic jihad rock and we have to take away from that civilians who would voluntarily human shields or allow their homes to be used for build tunnels or allow their homes to be used to fight how most people, if we get that down probably there are a number of, of civilians killed and terrace killed. in other words, the ratio is probably about $12.00 to $13000.00 of each. that is the lowest ratio civilians, bigger bands in the history of urban warfare. there is never been an army that has killed, fewer civilians and fewer children. remember, children is defined by a mazda is any 119. they recruit their terrorist, 131415161718. so many of the so called children are terrorist. the same thing is true of the women, just because you are a woman doesn't mean you're not

a terrorist. and so many of the women who are killed were actual terrorists for complicity and terrorism. and when israel has the best ratio of civilian to lowest ratio of civilian band desk, and that's called genocide, it shows you have no idea what the meaning of genocide is. genocide is the live partly willfully targeting an entire will. it really will get all the genocide the 2nd, but i read these rarely paper. i read sociology professor the be over the rest of israel has said that the ratio is significantly higher than the average of any in depth stolen or conflicts around the world from the 2nd level. to the 19 ninety's is regard some lindsey called with a razor and we talk about children. i've got a list here. i have an actual list here of one after another of people, children, infants, 0 years old, one years old, 2 years old, 3 years old. i mean, i got this right here, i got the names of all these people then or 80,

or i'm do they have a list of the 1000 or 2000 children. but from a total of $30000.00 people kill that still makes it the lowest ratio of civilians, 2 combatants in any history. and i challenge any, well, this is a 3 or the account phones in gaza. 2012 to 2022 ratios. civilian death tells us 44 percent major decline to 33 percent operations yield in error in the 1st 3 weeks of this current operation and 61 percent. but let's just take, i mean, aside from all these contested by both sides, this takes the actual woods off the president gets, i could still go, i think, you know, the president of israel, i know quotes it is an entire nation who are responsible this rhetoric about civilians, so professionally the rhetoric both of us are arguing about supposedly not being involved is absolutely untrue and we will fight until we break their backs. and of course he's really defenders enough to use right. gaza has declared warren is real

. gaza is an unit. gaza is real off of who my children. so vast majority of gardens support what, how much did the vast majority of the west bank did? and what president hertzog merely said is there is responsibility in the way the german people were responsible for the nazis. the japanese people responsible for what happened there and, and yes, when you elect people as the guidelines elected a mouse and the boss act on your behalf and commits atrocities, there is collective responsibility. that doesn't mean there should be collected punishment. that doesn't mean that there are some people should be killed and israel goes to great lengths to avoid the killing of civilians more than any other country. they give warnings, they tell in advance were their attack is going to be and yet civilians are killed because they use the human shields. when you used to go as human shields, civilians die as i said, there's no evidence or human fields as being officially seen. but i mean,

that argument can go on and on. yeah. but in your book and you would just the mentioning the 2nd world war violence, i mean the, the file bombing of tokyo with the bridge bombing of dresden, i know it used, i've never heard of them being used as excuses for the war. nobody's using, i mean, if anything, these are atrocities that i mean the film oppenheimer, they may win oscars that it's not so much the 0 schumer and i guess like a were necessary, some people debate with it. they should have happened to tool the bombing of dresden and so. and whereas you, again and again say they were clearly necessary in the fight against knots is a and i oppose. i was opposed to the bombing of dresden, i'm in favor of, of the bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki bombing, if the machine mercedes, more than a 100000 american lives of soldiers. you know, that's the point. there was already a deal with russia as late as joins are found or later. when japan did in pearl

harbor, you put your civilians at risk and military to make decisions. i would not have supported the decision on that. exactly. but it's real different do. there is real, is engaged in efforts to try to destroy how much they have the right to do that this part of american policy. that's part of british policy, this part of nato policy. israel has the right to destroy from us. it should do it in a way that the boss has the right to destroy israel. then under 2334, and the right to struggle in un general assembly resolution the body 3 rate and be head and assault and kidnapped intake has told you about the beheading. there's no evidence your lawyer. no, you have to defend the evidence. and i and i saw the picture i had, i know the person is had it's, it's online. his head was over just for sale for 10. that was all i is. none of this being validated by the official un reports into

a trust is. and it has been validated and it's absolutely true. i sat next to the father crying his eyes out, showing me the picture of the sun. well, the white house has walked back by moves. why these are right. you know, so and for $10000.00, you destroy your own credibility when you dispute that. when do you disagree the race? when you dispute the use of human shields, you destroy your credibility. you just will the world clearly like a hi there. remember nazis? the $9.00 cost the so many years and that destroyed their credibility. and anyone who says there was no rates, anyone who says there is no human feels does not deserve to be listened to on any other subject. their credibility is gone. okay, well we haven't seen the evidence the new york times is walking back earlier pieces and then you know, without the use of rape at quite the opposite, i read new york times. that's there been efforts by some radical head to israel,

people to get them to walk it back and they have refused to walk it back. they're standing by their view in the us standing by issue that there is clear and convincing evidence that is a very high, okay? and that's no evidence of rates, not only rates individually, but rates as a policy of a boss, which is one of the worst one. why is this folks both of whom keywords, gary rejecting these kinds? why is it a family of the one family over the woman who is allegedly reg said, this is not true. why the new york times publishing? there's a lot of this exposed by the grades and of course, max bloom and tools, max only. but the big ex blumenthal is a big it, these bonanza israel from the very beginning. he is not to be to sit and there are many others who are not to be trusted. look at the photographs. the, the videotapes, the israel has produced at the times,

relied on looking at what the united nations relied on. you will see clear and convincing evidence as far as the know i read the whole report and they clearly say they collected no evidence. that is the words of a promotional pat this week. why? oh, tunnels underneath hospitals. if they weren't using the hospitals as human shields, you know what i called these hospitals. i called up my mazda tunnels, under the heard of garza but why put guys under siege? but anyway, fundamental to all of this is the right of the palace. getting people to um, struggle against a, a struggle. they were offered a state and 48 and 67 in uh, 9 uh maybe through but they still have the right to um, struggle against occupation or direct me. there wasn't a state in 2005 the night in 2007, 800 omer, offered them to stay on 98 percent of the west bank. a 100 percent is bizarre,

levant. well, and they turned it down so no, they have no right to struggle. they have a right to diplomacy. they have the right to accept a tuesday solution to argue for, but they have no right to rate at the head as you assault as a kid. now, to take a one year old baby and hold the hostage, we didn't even know that babe used to live. no, they have no right to do that. how many children palestinian children are in? is riley's james. none none. mary jane, no children. and is there anything you roles? yeah, there are so you so you agree with friend be our friend president had so what about you? i've got on there will be no electricity. there will be no food, no fuel. everything is closed. we are fighting animal people, and we are acting accordingly. do the we, why the well, i mean actually does, does get onto this. people have said joe biden, maybe the last pro israel president. what do you feel as a defender of his right as a friend of nothing, you have

a knowing that you've lost the narrative. now in the united states, the rest of the world clearly is not supporting the a pack mugs. these really line is this. the end of it, these riley projects we approaching the end of the as rarely project of israel support among american voters is higher and very high, particularly among people of voting age. they have lots of support among young people. of israel is militarily strong. israel will never give up and they will always be in is role in until the palestinians recognize that and understand that into you know, i sat across from a boss, the head of the palestinians are free and i sent them over a dinner. if you will say the following words, i hear, but recognize israel as the legitimate nation state of the jewish people. i will get you to stay solution. and he said, i can't do that. i cannot recognize israel as a nation saying the jewish people. that's the problem,

that's the core of the problem. i support the 2 state solution. i have just i i do they everything. i don't think many experts do support the tuesday. they want one state from the river to the city with both jews, but christians and muslims all living in. and you know how much except in these riley states and that change of that traffic with 1967 borders. i truly say, look in my book, i quote the charter words the word and i quote, the revised joiner. i challenge anybody to read it and tell me that her last day was it is rarely say, let me tell you, if i'm us, leader with a, get up and say, i favor the establishment of a nation. stay with george people in israel. he would be assassinated immediately. no, i'm just finally and briefly then. so 50 to the majority in america, according to pollings, is against sending weapons. now, to israel, you think they being influenced by george soros and i'm just the international and do you think that's what's happened and how often do university,

why is it the majority now? do not sending it well. i think the majority probably opposes any web is to any country in the world. there are many i salacious, but the majority support israel majority support, the destruction of a mosque majority support president budge, policy of allowing israel to destroy him. us getting the hostages back with less than a mentor says until they stop the attack, no weapons to be sent. no, that's the, that's the, that's the you go. and number 2, the, the american policy is supported by most americans, and that is the structure from us getting the hostages back and trying to move toward the possibility of a tuesday solution. but the can't be a 2 state solution if i'm honest or amazing power, let me tell you the most greatest beneficiaries of israel destroying how much would be the palestinian people, the palestinian people without a moss could thrive. there can be

a democracy. what israel ended its occupation of all gods in 2005, 2006. they could have built cynthia. what was that time to continue your patient as we go? there was no occupation until i'm us took over on a cool kill the palestinian authority. was also that as a rockets in israel said it has to guard the borders and it has to have control and it's still eligible and everything. but the other professor, how long does your wits thank you as well. thank you. let's stick to this act. ok as right, that's it for the show. a continued condolences to those bereaved by u. k. u. s. u on bombing in palestine 11 in yemen, syria and iraq will be back with more and the nature of nation war, limited, least on monday, until then keep in touch my role as social media, if it's not sensitive in your country and had to our channel, the grantee, the normal dot com to watching you and all the episodes of going underground to you monday the

the when the world's largest democracy clouds, the rest of the planet watchers in an emerging multi polar world. and.