colonialism for decades until june, easy, a gained independence in 1956. the the hello and welcome to the cross stock were all things are considered on theater level. among the casualties is resulted. israel's genocide will assault on causes included suspension of international humanitarian law, but also free speech across the western world. perversely, being pro palestinian and pro peace is condemned as anti semitic. the cross i can call us 9. i'm joined by my guess, lionel in new york. he's

a legal and media analyst in berkeley, we actually but so what i see is the director of the institute of middle eastern is la mac and strategic studies. and in rome, we crossed to romano roberto. she is an author and the managing editor of the palestine chronicle. alright. crosstalk rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciated. um, theresa, if i can go to you 1st thing in berkeley, it seems like astoundingly there. there is a pogroms going on all across american academia. people are triggered, people are fearful. the police are being called in. what in the world is going on here? i read it and looking at the image is that people are, are protesting against genocide and wanting piece. i mean, i don't think that's such a radical idea to protest about, but that's just me go ahead. it is not a radical idea to protest about this movement has been growing every day as the results of the interference by politicians. and by,

i believe in organized movement against pulse time that's been operating for some time, even before the 7th of october. and according to that move, now, you know, people cannot say palestine, they cannot say into plaza, they cannot say from the river to the see. different states have lunches, flimsier gloss, allowing businesses to fire employees who are caught speaking out on palestine. so i think this is part of something larger, and the student movement is acting on uh, you know, it is triggered by what is happening to so. so here in berkeley, we had a dean of the law school who had a student wearing his job,

who stood up to speak at a dinner. he invited all the law students to and shouldn't even get to speak before he asked her to leave and said it was his apples. and this was written up in the nation. you know, and, and no we haven't in camp 9 and on the students are, are very galvanized. the problem i think, is that the general public has been reading this media spend for some time the, a pro tell us starting tomas or terrorist. therefore, protel's steiner chairs and yeah, but i mean a for the, you know, line or it, but this is criminalizing speech, isn't it? i mean, it's really quite extraordinary. i mean, speaking facts, i mean, we can,

i don't want to waste time on this program, but we could quote, as really officials about what's going on and guys, it's all part of the public record. ok. i mean, repeating what they have to say is that being criminalized to go ahead. while i always say, i remember i told stories line that history would be a wonderful thing if only it were true. well peter, let's go back through memory lane. we always do this. 1970 kent state, the national guard, the saws, ohio crosby, stills, and nash. in 1968 in columbia university, they took over the president of the office. a debate or protesting against columbia is involved with military official. okay. the same people, the same people who remembered the house in days of smoking dope and protesting the same day go on the same place. we're talking about bringing in the

national guard and i'm saying, can't state you know what somebody told me that said, no, this is columbia said now and stayed. they've forgotten what i thought was in boys and did my collector memory. peter, we, we, this wasn't that long ago. and 11 more thing, what people are seeing sometimes these events that have happened to columbia, others have said, this isn't even on campus. yeah. because some of the events, so this is an absolute dial follicle targeted misinformation, this information distortion product. and i, well, i can't live or what it is. you know, i'm glad you brought up the 196 these because i remember watching it very young on television. they were against war. that's what we're seeing now as people are against war in genocide and has nothing to do with anti semitism whatsoever. let me

go to ramona in room. you know, it's really quite a sounding do i see all of these news reports here, but children in gaza are still being 2 families. entire families are being decimated. i'm, i'm sorry, maybe a few students in america. i'll get, i'll get triggered. but i mean, are we missing the bigger picture here? go ahead. romano. of course we are. and you know we are misty, the big picture because intentionally the big picture has to be side lines. of course, what is happening in gaza is you know, attendance how you doing work and of course, dot ease in the go and that should be punished and people should be held accountable for that. but nobody, a sanctioning doc, nobody's forwarding, is what accountable for it's clear, war crimes and crimes against humanity. but, you know, people who are protesting are now becoming there is

a witch hunt against them. and there was a witch hunt in the united states. there was a witch hunt here in europe, and of course the justification of the anti semitism is used as usual as a, as most queen because no, nobody wants to talk about the crimes, the ministry occupation, the upper side, the racism. and ultimately now the genocide that unfortunately we're seeing a foraging in gaza. so this is used as a smoke skin as most screen. and it's incredible, but may do is intellectuals are actually, you know, protesting this. they are saying that this is actually against the safety of, you know, of jewish people. and i think it's true, a bare nice time. the road recently an article for the harvard crimson saying that, you know, these mechanistic tactics shouldn't be used at all. but unfortunately they are, and the fees and or strategy and or this kind of latasha to ease with and sign if

people have own with used to cover up their crime. yes. but, you know, if i go back to our guest in berkeley, i mean, this is, we all should not be surprised here when we've been told all of us. so, you know, we have a younger folks older folks like mine on myself here. but you know, they're, they equating zine isn't with israel with jews, and this is the problem that we have here because they are there. this is a false pairing of these, a different topics here. and so if you're a design is and people are saying stop the genocide and zine is in the problem. of course they're not going to like it, but it has nothing to do with anti semitism. i refuse to let them do that to me in the discourse. go ahead and berkeley there are of course, many jewish students in the movement against genocide. and that is a very difficult situation for those who want to cancel free speech on palestine and prove the on calling for

a ceasefire in gaza. and, and i think that those students at columbia have issued a several important statements clarifying their position and, you know, trying to ask not to be kidnapped into this, this course about and send it to them which is essentially irrelevant here. yes. so um, but yeah, that's where the mainstream media it has been going. if you read every story the they in jack to paragraph or 2 about inside semitism and yeah, but also with the media, you, one of the things that media line away, i'm sure you've come across it in the passive voice is used all the time. people were killed, people were bombed, buildings were destroyed. where is the predicate, who's doing what to whom?

and of course, and we've all pointed out here, don't mention occupation. i mean, there are so many words that are for bit right now. i mean, these people are antithetical to what all of us were brought up in as a free society to speak. what you think go headlines. another history i, i'm in new york, i'm on the west side and during the, our own b, l. m. uh, the george floyd during the riot and the, the, these very same media fault for say, listen, protest is unfortunately, supp protesters uncomfortable. this is when buildings were on fire, they were plywood everywhere. people hide from see it on because i mentioned their names. this is the way it goes. do you know what fascinates these very same people today as to the protests in columbia? who's buying their tents? they're eating sushi, it's. there's marginalization of these people as crazy. who are the

oh the lead be, i'm the daughter of the congressman of this. what she how, how dare she who are these people reading drums. we did the same thing during occupied wall street, and i ask people as a, do you remember doing great moments of protests, martin luther king's, i have a dream. i'm sure traffic was backed up. they might have littered, i'm sure during an admin pettis bridge. and these civil rights moments, i'm sure these, these moments. now we're looking at decorum, ad drumbeat and, and the way they look from people, let me just finish with who are sworn by virtue of their media status to understand and appreciate it to the 1st amendment. they don't understand when it comes to doing this on it or they, they just, they, they're aparadh checks their proxies for a government. they actually enable and in noble if you will, a,

the crack down to free speech. it's on be livable. yeah. but line, or at the same time is this is all going on. the congress voted for another down payment of the genocide. i mean, it's really hiding subordinate, the, the, the people that are experiencing genocide are not even part of the discourse. so this is extraordinary. and it's a 3rd, at this point, i'm going to jump in, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion of houseman and state with our to the

from the world's largest democracy votes. the rest of the planet watches in emerging multi polar world. india's voice matters. but who will be the power behind watches, almost 1000000000 people decide and billions more, react the, the, the, the, the, the unit on the

what sky o'neill slow, was it when you talk with bob. bob got them for the for the move, the new weight of the money for the theater. if as little as human views to that please just give us just do it really a couple i get those go for need a lot more of the doors of familiar with this one. as i said let's see i don't know the shape legit. sincerely. as i think it's my the pnc and then with which assessment planning put, is that correct? uh yeah, that'd be the the

welcome back. across stock. were all things are considered. i'm peter the bell to remind you we're discussing palestine. the okay, let's go back to our guest in room. um, let me get a quote to benjamin netanyahu. the israeli prime minister. this is what he said. it was the last new cycle. what's happening in america's colleges, campuses is horrific. anti semitic mobs have taken over the leading universities of all people to be quoting and american media. when they, when we look at that, how much, how many journalists that have been killed in gaza and palestinians, and non palestinians and, and it, that's good been so much more airtime, but they're only a snippet and that's why they're getting rid of picked up because people actually can see the truth. ok, the main stream media just want the waters a down completely, like i said, using passive speech where you don't really understand who's doing what to whom. so,

i mean, this is what the western media prefers is to allow out and outside or meddling and american domestic politics go heading room. yes, mainstream media is trying to serve, you know, the agenda of power as usual. it's their job. absolutely, and you know, they're highlighting things that shouldn't be highlight, highlighted at all at nissan. how at this moment is also worried about the possible arrest warrant and that should have come, you know, so sometimes it go if we want to to see this. but i think here what we are experiencing garza has exposed many lies, has exposed many contradictions. what you're seeing here is that, you know, it's even more than a crisis of representation. we are seeing that liberal democracies are, you know, lying so openly, that is even difficult to justify, at the lies a,

at all at let's think about the fact that 1st of all, it is not a democracy. if i can only speak if i am basically speaking the language of the system and of the power, it's not the democracy, but you will not even speaking about the rights of the minority to speak out. we're speaking about the right of the majority because every poll in the united states and in europe is actually saying that the majority of people, once a heart is the fire in gaza at once a has to is really work crime in gaza and, but we are see politicians, you know, basically a trying to impose something on the majority of the people. and these, these carry like these should concern every body. not the only people who are now currently sticking out for college and for posting and rides, or are protesting just wonderful students who are protesting and campuses all over toward the united states and turn over to what it should concern every body. yeah,

and particularly if we look at western universities, these are the most privileged people of that society. okay. you know, let's go back to our guest in berkeley. i know a lot of people the don't really understand that. um, i actually prefer a culture and i, and, and social movements and in philosophy, not necessarily politics. and what i see happening here is the entire enlightenment project being extinguished and, and in the light min project of liberalism that the west exported all around the world. sometimes and very often using force they were banned doing it themselves. remarkably, it is the global south, it says, no, no, no, no, we kind of like some of those ideas about freedom of speech and assembly, you know, all, but we kind of like that. it's hard, it's because of the, uh, impair, uh, colonial experience, but we're making our progress. the west is a jet, a 2nd away completely. go ahead and berkeley as well. this is the thing people

that have been told, and the general public in the united states has a rather different in our student population. and it's rather different than our student population who happens to be posted in, or era, or a most one or jewish, who may have inform themselves more on this conflict. so, you know, people will say, well, why can't they attain palestine through peaceful means? have they not tried? have they not used every single apparatus that they can, has there not being processed in the international court of justice? was there not a un ruling for a ceasefire? and then i'll tell people about the movement to, you know, go to go to the border act cause the various movements to overcome the blockade. they haven't even read about it. yeah. they, they don't, they don't know that and on. so i think, you know, the,

the action of the students, not just the students, but uh, uh, so a little while ago, the 4 zeros the locking of the bay bridge here and the golden gate bridge. and this is being met with criminal charges of the and for some to kidnapping that to explain the motor which really caught her. but what's, what's extraordinary? okay. someone is blocking a bridge. okay. sorry. you're going to be a little late for work, but they're not charging the people that are committing a gen. it's like, i mean being the, the iron, the whole business extorted. lionel, is it all about money? you know, it's a donors, i mean, look at, we look at these ivy league schools. we have big donor se, if you don't fire this person, you don't rest of the students that will have actually paid money to go there and lived there. is it all about that? is that where it gets to the very top?

is that money? does it money talks? yes. and you know, what else walks? what i can't believe are the number of, of a college professor, a president who you think would be in to drills. because we have a congress person the least to find out who will bring you in and say, what have you done? what have you done to, to of, to, to stop hate. and i would immediately, i wish somebody would say here, here's a list. tell me, what should i do here? you want to run the code that my cap is here. tell me what words i can say. here's the best part. i'm living i told you in a fish bowl last week on a saturday when we can get, we didn't even know where congress is. i saw american congress, people waving ukrainian flags singing you, craig, you, craig, not america. at the same time, there was,

you mentioned the israel legislation then guarding our surveillance laws. meanwhile, i'm turning to friends of mine, supposedly conservative, supposedly lovers of the constitution and liberty sitting back and doing nothing. and i ask these people as a, do you think this all began on october, the 7th? and 11 final word, they asked as one politician. what do you think about the house on the publish a new situation. he says, release the hostages and all are, well, somebody gave him these, these add these tried answers to say this, that doesn't even these politicians are like mine, a birds their, their sac puppets. they're told say this, and you will be fine. yeah. but they're cowards. they're all cowards and they're all it being paid. okay, that's their hot. and that's what, when it gets to their value system, that is at the very top your, let's go back to room. remember, one of the things that i find really interesting,

and i think it is something we need to think about for a long time moving forward. is this the ultimate expression of what zionism is all about? because with this project here, it is intensely races. it's intensely violent and it works with impunity. and what it does is it corrupts everything around it. look at the us congress, look at the british parliament. they've corrupted them. they've corrupted the media, they've corrupted everything. go ahead. the absolutely it is, you know, the very, the very essence of design is project was finalized. it's reaching this moment. but now the vanish project also feels correct. and because there is a paradigm shift in towards economics, you know, in towards balance. and this is so scary for them and disclose the so scary for the empire in a sense. this is why i think the west is so keen on tracking down on these protests

because there is a shift in the power dynamics and even in the ethnic composition, the students who are protesting. many of them are, you know, the outcome of what happened of these, and i'm a full, big environmental to, to look into us after 911. and now they, they read fight. today i read the banner, one of the students saying the i me to start the site and now you want us to forget what we did, study a. so there are new priorities, i think even in academia, and he's going to be so difficult for them. this time around a to escape from the paradigm shift that is blue ball and it's a movement that is, you know, very grassroots movement that he's talking to seek. basically, they're the basics of, you know, of power and their own system. i knew it would take time, but i really can see that there is a way out of this, you know,

a racist echo route to steps stink zion is and so far and basically avoid it's too who did that accountable for all of its crimes throughout the years, it's sort of back tomorrow just in berkeley here. you know something that online or i'm thankful he's been joining me on a weekly basis for half a year talking about this here. does the, the cleaning of calling someone anti semitic it? does it have the same sting is it used to have? because if you say it's so often over and over again, then nothing's anti semitic. so i sent the problem is this some chapter has gone deep into our society. it's in the department of defense which has $10000.00 employees. if anyone accuse us you of them, i symmetric speech, so i work for them. and as you may know, they have a public affairs office, which calls you up to in the so as we'd like you to be on this program, here's the points we'd like you to cover. you're allowed to say, oh, respectfully disagree. i'm going to talk about apps,

and then as soon as you finish, they call up your boss. so she was hands has submitted, she was supporting terrorist and then okay, the state department, very much the same. so it isn't. and it isn't just the overt calls for, let's say, cease fire. and so i mean, as i hope that people can see how, how organized this is and then it will take organization to, to break. and there is our, our speaker in rome alluded to this. i mean, jamaica recognize the state of palestine just recently and joins the lives of many countries around the world to recognize palestine. but united states does sense. right. and on i, i,

i agree with her i. so i've been rapidly running out of time here, just want to make a closing comments here. remember, and i were speaking with for the show that there were people saying that, you know, this is resembles the 1930s in europe. yeah. does authoritarianism is on the march? that's the comparison. you need to make as all the time we have or anything my guess in new york, berkeley ending room. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here in our dc and next time and remember prospect goals the the of the every spring and summer, the melting optics move reveals abandoned machinery, millions of rusty barrels,

and the detritus left by human expansion into this most inaccessible of territories . yes, i used to move forward to a customer both as a simple, someone from yours at the bus to be joining us. an issue called them to us from clean optic travels the highest island home to the biggest opponent station on the friends of joseph land. occupied a go. yeah, they asked me what i was and i was or more you have to do should. so it means if you have, when you feel when we see that's one way and then put some of the, some will stay on the old stuff last time i feel like you are a mess almost here. let me see means membership. when you to, i've got the serial no boys to the middle of please to join me instead of the optic plan is main objective was to explore and comcast, these harsh lands they had no time to think about waste management now and. and then can see kids remain for centuries. that's my of my choice of so it's pretty at the course you system is the most upon your scope of the team that the deal to

issue. the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just, are shifted reality distorted by tell us tired vision with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse really

one say better wills. and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented as 1st? can you see through their illusions, going underground can the same people who still preloaded with a new film like base to the auto time the motto, traffic to the company, started thinking kid, now he's are attacking what i want to wait on. this was a cut off on a significant, an on small audiences and also sites in a country, lot of issues and lots of problems are there which can be, was again, the women voice. and then obviously that one of the things we've additional bottom due to the move intended for them to make up with that full team as me and i think proud of already. yeah. and especially if you've seen from.