[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered on peter level while the by the ministration many of its close as allies continue to shield israel with diplomatic cover. the international criminal court and the international court of justice speak for much of the world. if there is to be justice, it must be applied to all the

prospecting palestine. i'm joined by my guess, lionel in new york. he's a legal and media analyst in town. we have well, how many mirandi is a professor at the university of to rent an interior of what we cross to solve takahashi, he is a former deputy head of office of the un human rights agency in occupied power assign. alright gentlemen, comstock rose and i think that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciated mohammed, let me go to you 1st here. i mean, this is not the 1st time that we have talked about the i c c. and usually on this program is in the midst of terms, i don't have much liking for the i c c, because if it's to put city is how it's politicized. and then it does something like this and ask for a indictments against to, to leading is really officials. of course, they had to balance it out with having 3, a mazda officials. for me. it's a very mixed bag. i have mixed feelings about it. they, they the very fact the justices people want to start approaching this in

a more balanced way. applying the law to everyone, i suppose is a plus, but because it comes from the i, c, c. i just really don't know what to think about it. what do you think? i agree, i don't think dice se has much credibility if any credit ability at all and no, do any of the international institutions that were created since the 2nd world war . they're all dominated by the west. more or less, some or worse, some or if it better. but this particular institution is very much under the influence of the united states. and its head is on very much under the influence of united states. but it does show something on it just like the 3 european countries that are recognized palestine. it doesn't change anything, but it does show something. and that is the global public opinion. and western public opinion are putting pressure on these institutions on these regimes

where they have to be seen as behaving differently. i. i'm sure that dicey had no intention whatsoever of doing anything against is where it is. but things have become so bad that if they don't take some slight steps, then they become completely discredited in the eyes of even the most naive of people. you know, so it's in a way, it's kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't. i mean 7 months and they decide to do something like this. again, trying to create this false equivalency. but nonetheless, it is something that i didn't really expect when we 1st heard about this. we came out of tell a b and not from anywhere else, not from the hague. that's for sure. and then it's happened here. so i know i, i'm a cynic, i take victories where i can take them. i do take, this is a victory. but it, we don't even know if the icpc is going to exist very much longer considering the, in the reaction of the americans and its allies go ahead. so as well. yeah, i mean like you, i think a, you know,

of course there's certainly an element of both sides isn't in the fact that the i c . c. not only indicted are not only is asking for an appointments for the 2 is really the leaders, but also for the 3 majors of how much. so that's something which i think is not, not nothing tastic but um you know, that having and said, i do think, you know, this is a pretty positive step. it's an important step and it could lead to some, you know, really positive change to it. so now you know, we have to see, i mean what's happening now for sure is biden, and the rest of the american administration is making phone calls, trying to strong arm dear opinions and probably my government does have a nice into saying that they will ignore the ice and you kind devices, the indictment, maybe that they're trying to fracture them to do the funds of the i c c. and like you say, to destroy it. let's hope it doesn't happen. i mean, you know, i spent most of my career a 1st lobbying for the creation of the i c. c. and been trying to convince people that you know,

despite its faults. and despite the fact that it had only indicted african leaders for the, for 20 years of it, for the average, the end, slobs, africans, and slobs. ok. well afterwards, yes. for the 1st 20 years. and then 20 years later, of course it was, you know, it was present food and then the russians in the dock and it was very interesting. the other day khan was interviewed. i think it was by cnn. and he said that he had been told point blank by a certain, quote unquote, a certain investor leader didn't say who would have been interesting say they would have been interesting to hear room. but he was told point blank that you guys can see is not to, it's not to indict israel, it's, it's for africans. and i think it was the so those like put in, i think that was the quote, the to the told. so you know that very much shows that hip hop proceed and double standards, but, you know, here we are. and like you say, i mean the evidence against israel, the evidence of you know, he's real, committing then aside and committing the surrender. war crimes and crimes against

humanity is so overwhelming that there's just no way that they could have gotten out of doing this. and let's you know, let's see what happens. well, between one of the interesting things, one of the interesting things about this indictment that they are coming out of the i. c. c. is that there's more of a highlight on the they have pocket see of western institutions not really on the merits, because as always just pointed out, i mean, this is over what is sign that you're trying to convince people that the sun comes out in the day and it sets at night, i mean, the evidence is so overwhelming, but watching them dance around and twist themselves into pretzels. that is the spectacle or, you know, line or, you know, the, i looked at western media a mainstream media. and it feels like treated as the 51st stage. i mean there is no difference between israel and the united states. i find this truly bizarre. but if they want to go down the path, then blinking and biting, and sullivan, they're going to end up in the dock using the same logic here. i guess that's what

they're afraid of right line on. and i don't know because i'm trying to try to explain to you gentlemen what it's like to live. as i say in the 1st ball i am living in the parallel universe. sometimes i have to look to see where there is evidence of change elsewhere to it. just a while ago people were saying the i c c is great. they don't know what the i c. c was. he thought it was a perhaps it was a federal commission. so somebody called to the international call cajun court and they were africans or whatever. and they got poking and, and it's great. didn't make sense. what about nothing, yahoo and yeah. oh and that loved the way they never even mentioned the names of that much and 3 other, whatever. they don't even mention it. so all of us are, there's that word them. it doesn't make any sense. excuse me, be careful what you asked for. you said it was great. yeah, but, but wait a minute. now was a runaway court, but we didn't, but it wasn't before. the next thing that's interesting is and you're gonna laugh at me gentlemen. so let me apologize in advance. all of a sudden those people who, who idea of,

of i guess news is people magazine or whatever. all ma clooney. george clooney is wife george clooney, the, the high priest of the, of cabal, whatever you want to call the woke left is his wife. not only is the is mr. conduct her mentor, but she research just now the left and the right. and we've talked about this better, they don't know what to do. and they're also saying, why do you think this came about? why do you think this came about, all of a sudden, what was it that changed everything in my lifetime? i've never seen anything like this. let me tell people are saying, you know, maybe these, the protests which are deriding as being stupid and ill conceived and manufactured by children trying to try to regroup with some healthy and days of the sixty's.

maybe that did it, maybe the world do use the cloud, schwab or maybe this is the great reset, but nobody saw this come here, but this is a really, if this problem, it's a reset that the establishment wasn't prepared for. it's for sure. you know, how many do i mean one of, you know, and looking at the yeah, i mean, i get, i agree with kind of saul, you know, i, i, it's a move in the right direction from a very flawed institution. but even looking at the long description of what, what, how this process is going to move forward. you, the reader doesn't get the impression that palestine garza, the west bank, is under occupation, israel as the occupying power. it has responsibilities. i don't see that in the text. maybe i don't know enough about the lot to pick it up. go ahead mohammed. and it's not only does that. it's also the west bank just yesterday, 11 palestinians were murdered in the west bank a spilt, i think 2 school children, one surgeon and one teacher were among those were killed. they're split it of the,

of the, of the children being shop on the streets lying down dying. but that doesn't register anywhere. apparently. uh, as a is, of course of the scenes of guys that we can only find them online. we're not going to see them in the way mainstream. western media in western government officials are not going to say anything about it. and there's not going to be any kind of nation from any of the western embassies in tel aviv. but um, but i, but i agree that uh, with both of your guest there has been a sea change it i, the israel is about the 51st dates. i think it's the that sort of like the district of columbia. but the guy, well the, how about how many, if that is the case, then it means it's is really occupied territory. keep going, it is, is really occupied territory. but there is a see change. and i do think that not only is it the protests across the world,

and the governments across the global south that are looking in the harm. but it is young people across the western world and in the united states in particular. and i would stress, young jewish america has the same issue or opinions yet, that putting pressure on the political system. and that i think is what is forcing them to make some slight moves in order to decrease the pressure. yeah, but it's interesting, a slight mood can turn into of an avalanche and i think that's what we're seeing right now. you know, so, so you know, i'm not a psychologist. i know a lot of people go on tv and pretend to be one. they're also military experts and they're also experts on russia, etc, etc. but i get this feeling that so you know, uh, somewhere like, um, uh. com is thinking about his legacy, how he is going to be remembered during these times. so i think a lot of people get beginning to realize that they're going to be judge maybe not

now, but history will judge them harshly. go ahead. well, i certainly think, i think so. you know, i don't know. i don't know, constantly ecology. so i can sort of, you know, speak for him, but i'm, i'm pretty sure that, you know, a lot of people are looking around and saying, seeing that they are on the wrong side of history. and the way the want to get on the right side of history. unfortunately, the us present by them doesn't seem to have done that yet. but you know, one of the things about this whole, you know, the whole discourse about, you know, what the eyes see has done and what you, what we're talking about about gaza. and of course, because it's not just because it's also the west bank and west bank also includes east jerusalem. and all this is, you know, this is extremely important as well. but it's also important not to lose sight of the fact that he's real isn't a part of state. and this is not just about nathan, yahoo and you know, just a couple of handful of is really politicians. no, i mean each and every point is really politician from at least $67.00 if i saw from solve solve all that thought, i have to go to a hard break and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on palestine. stay with

the the, what is part of the blog post that isn't the deepest view of us and in the word part, is it something deeper, more complex might be present? good. let's stop without pleases. let's go. part of to take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures, design to simplify will confuse really once

a better wills. and is it just because it shows you fractured images, presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground again? the

parts of rick sanchez and i'm here to plan with you. whatever you do. do not watch my new show seriously. why? watch something that's so different little opinions that he won't get anywhere else . welcome to please or do the have the state department c i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the wayne state the welcome back across. ok, we're all things are considered. i'm peter, the belcher manager were discussing palestine. the okay, let's go back to solve it before we went to the break. here, we're talking about how much further culpability there is. if you're going to be

indicting the prime minister of israel and the for a and the defense minister of these are not accurate, these are actors that have enormous amount of power. and we all know to, and i think this is what it is. so a stomach churning is that this is a genocide that is being actively found online. we have is really soldiers, me a pricing their, their crimes on, you know, into the camera. i mean, we all can see it. okay. i mean, the one, the most glaring one for me was watching that they were blowing up the university. i mean, the whole building, i'm and it was, it was very well staged. i have to say, and he's standing there grinning. i don't understand of a hebrew, but i mean, he was really happy that he was part of the destruction of something that is one of the basis of civil society in palestine. and so, i mean how much for this go. i mean, if you're going to bring these 2 guys to trial, you're going to have to bring

a whole lot more. go ahead so well, that's exactly my point. i mean, it's not just a handful of it's really politicians that are, you know, problematic here. and that's, you know, the problem with the whole sort of the most extreme right wing government in israel narrative that we see a lot of, you know, we've got to look at also what's been happening within the borders of israel, of 40 the 48 palestinian territory. and you know all of this, the whole ser narrative about the 2 state solution. the 2 state solution is the only way for the to say solution is the only way the piece will ever come to say solution is the only feasible, blah, blah, blah. we've heard this, you know, ad nauseam from all of our so called leaders over and over and over. but the fact that the matter is a 2 state solution, you know, is, comes from this partition resolution that the un general assembly adopted in 1947. now, 1947, there were 55, maybe is 56 member states in the united nations is completely dominated by the west and it's ours. so that's how we have this, you know, quote of a 2 state solution. the only reason that we're even talk to you about this,

and this is somehow because the default option is because it goes back to 1947. and basically, the, you know, the western dominated united nations come into the policy and people and say, well, why don't you give half of your country over to these western colonized? boy, that sounds like a great idea. and we've got to look at the, you know, sheer injustice and hypocrisy of that to what, you know, and mohammed the, the argument, you know, you hear all the time a, i'm in my entire life. you know, israel has the right to exist. israel has the right to sell to spend those of the favorite ones. oh, and the 3rd one is it's complicated. okay. that's, that's kind of the, the, the, the design is propaganda that we're all side fed all the time. but i mean, if you look at that, we have a 143 countries in the world recognize palestine as a state. okay. and uh, tony blinking says, we don't want to do anything unilaterally. well, a 143 countries that's not unilateral. that's kind of like the vast majority of the world. what we're getting down to is it and the question should be, you know,

should does, what is real, have the right to exist, but it is a desirable for it to exist as a design estate mohammad. well peter, i think over the years we've, we've seen a lot and things are now very different from the past. the last 78 months has really changed the world. i never thought i'd see the things the key or the things that i'm seeing and hearing today, the world is turned against this regime. and there's a lot of awareness about what sign is. i'm actually means what at most of the premises i'm in apartheid is. and they can't hide this anymore, and it's really changing everything by the way. even now, western media they've for the last 3 days since president rest raised the passed away in the helicopter accident. they've been saying that the ronnie ends are celebrating and then online and social media. we see millions of people in the different funerals in tap, ron,

and right now and mass side and elsewhere. and no one believes the west anymore. no one believes is ro anymore. no one believes the united states anymore, they've destroyed themselves and they're, they're destroyed their credibility, their soft power. and so now people across the world are saying that there's really wishing does not have moral legitimacy. and that the only real solution is for a single state where all people have equal rights and people when they hear that, they say yes, that makes sense. make sense? yes, it makes sense. they're all human beings equal human beings. they should all be able to live together and they see as you point out that the is not, it's not just the palestinians who are showing a footage of daily slaughter. and the massacre is happening 24 hours a day. they are seeing this really is i just as you pointed out, tearing up atrocities and laughing about it and in doing what they're doing and

none of them being punish. and none of them be why because that the regime itself backs this sort of behavior. so them kind of has no clothes, and i think that that is going to have enormous consequences in the years to come in a line or it's the uh it's, it's well known, the iron clad support the united states has for, for israel. but it's always funded, really mystifying and truly disappointing is that if you could put it into the american contexts, who today defense jim crow, who, who defends that kind of apartheid like system that the united states had. we mean, how, you know, hollywood goes to the bank every, every single year, you know, you need to, you know, grow. so i, when i grew up on roots, i remember watching it as a child. okay. i mean, why can't that kind of explanation be honestly displayed to people saying if you support israel and what it's doing, then you support what they did in the south. and jim crow, i have

a friend of mine who is a, who's a bigger discount, a movie fan and said, remember movie jango. i see. yeah. is it what, what does that about? is it what does that about? that's about a slave who basically comes back and utilize that, didn't you? a 2 things. thank god for an unfettered social media. thank god for twitter. i have, there are some sites i don't wanna mention now. all of depths of absolute. and i'm a former prosecutor, i've seen murder, see, i have seen it all. and the thing that i, i try to tell my friends are people who the unenlightened. i said, look, i'm not trying to explain one way the other just look at what's going on. tell me what this is about. to look at the looks in the face of these people who are going through and picking a body, look at the look they. they have almost like they're just the 1000 yard stare there . they have. they've been doing this for too long the other day there was a quote, comedian, i'm not going to mention his name, who decided he's going to address the crazy left young people. and i've got to tell you gentlemen what he said,

which is to me. exam exemplifies the fact that people don't know what they're talking about. he said, you know, people in gaza would find it a lot better and a lot easier to live if they could go to tell a beep, especially if you're gay or there's or whatever that particular phrase was. it'd be great if they could go to tell the be and the, and the whole said, that's the idea. that's what we're talking about. so what occurred to me, we're talking about basically a rudimentary absolute basic misunderstanding using trumps and means that ideas 30 years ago, 40 years ago. and this is an idea of these, of this new kind of a. ok. we're going to look at this again. no. the best way to expose the truth is to let this load se prevail and just listen to one and say, i don't have to correct anything. this is self correcting. just listen to this. i don't know what they're talking about. forget talking about zion is, and we'll just look at this, ask this question. do you want this to continue?

as somebody helped me here, or they don't use the word genocide to say, okay, how about massacre? you're like that? is it okay? maybe as a god, you prefer that we, we, we are sold from totally as over specific definitions. missing the entire point that we as a space you to say this is got to stop. well, talk about the other stuff later, but this is got to start having not, you know, why don't we, you know, the people that support the, the slaughter in, in, in gaza and in the assaults on the west bank they, they want us all to lose our humanity like they have lost their humanity, but i refuse to do that. i refuse to close my heart because i feel that i am comfortable. if i don't talk with the way i'm talking right now a. so is israel's worst enemy itself. i guess you can say that. yeah, i mean, definitely i look positive change is never going to come from within is really

society. i mean it's just not going to happen. it has to be forced upon them. and really it's united states and the europeans, but more than anybody do another system, this really has to happen. you know, you mentioned before, this is really starting into the 51st state and i think somebody so there's actually the, you know, it's, it's the, it's the district of columbia. and you know, we used to jokes out to washington dc was the a tunnel and on divided capital of israel. and just a, just a few days ago, i read the to republican congressman introduced a bill which if it were passed, it would mean that the us funds would go to american citizens who had served in the is really military. so they would get like equivalent benefits as american veterans who had served in the american military. this is just insane. i mean, never in the history of i, you know, me, the, i don't know, but i certainly never heard of anything like this in the history of mankind or taxpayer funds would go to the board of people who had served in for an army. yet this was completing center. yeah. yeah. but yeah, and it's like, oh what,

what does it make? it makes it even worse. i agree with you there. it's a form of a mercenaries, but what makes it worse is that the tax payers would be finding the same people to commit crimes. that's what makes it even worse. keep going. well, exactly. i like you say, i mean is real is as we're sending me in a way, but it's, it's out of control. i mean, is really, society is completely out of control. and you know, i saw of course, i live in palestine for 5 years and i, i interacted with menus rarely as, of course. and i saw how they were socialist into believing that the whole world was against them. and you know, the next whole, the cost of just around the corner and they've got the, you know, they've got to give before somebody. yeah. but so let me, let me becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. i'll get the last minute to mohammed should be because of what they do. the world is touring against them. it's a self fulfilling prophecy mohammed. yes, they are their own worst sending me because they hum us and hezbollah and,

and sought out on the others. and you run with them have defeated these really, really, militarily, but is rarely do real. the feet is the fact that the israelis have destroyed their image in the eyes of the world by committing these atrocities that defeat is far greater than anything else. and people won't forget that, that's what happened during the 2nd world war to the nazis and others. and there's ran, these are the worst anti semites themselves because they are doing all of this in the name of judaism. and that's why that the, the courage of these young american and european jews is so important because they are paving to and there. and what they're saying is that they have their own self determination. and because they have their own, they want to see others have it as well. gentleman, that's all the time we have one of the things i guess in new york, sorry about and into that. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. at our key, see you next time. remember custom rules,

the the, the funding, the on off. what strikes it all out? o'neill slow, was it when you talk with bob,

bob got them to move the weight of the money for the theatre. if as little as human views to them, please just give us just do it really well. i get those go coordinating a lot more. all the doors of the year was as simple as i said. let's see, i don't know the shape but just as daily about making sure that we have kids in there with which assessment when you put in your article here, that'd be the, the one you did that you attempted to collect as extra a month. i thought she sat there for the show have any coverage uh to las

negotiated. all of it is uh, international stuff is defensive to separate the setup button and the printer doesn't want to do is it ask you like that? if i said the media, i love people, there's only 2 reasons to just say with the city, the new country can be new service or they're going to be present the deals for them. i didn't want to work it on stimulus the industry on these little less money will process the left. so should william farmer shots, monuments who have got cash door to go or decisions in my lab. and what was that man was the ones that ridiculous funds. i put it in the midst of them one today and but you know, so that's what it was that strong to set. i mean shows tools or suspect, pretty shock journals on patient data for she's getting those are best do what i mean. there's a push out the