of the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered on peter level while the by the ministration many of its close as allies continue to shield israel with diplomatic cover. the international criminal court and the international court of justice speak for much of the world. if there is to be justice, it must be applied to all the pro, sucking palestine. i'm joined by my guess, lionel in new york. he's a legal and media analyst in town. we have well, how many mirandi is a professor at the university of trend? and in, sorry, of what we cross to solve takahashi, he is a former deputy head of office of the un human rights agency in occupied power sign . alright, gentlemen, costs are gross and effects. that means you can jump any time you want. and i

always appreciated mohammed, let me go to you 1st here. i mean, this is not the 1st time that we have talked about the i c, c. and usually on this program is in the midst of terms, i don't have much liking for the i c c, because if it's to put city is how it's politicized. and then it does something like this and ask for the indictments against to, to leading is really officials. of course, they had to balance it out with having 3, a mazda officials. for me. it's a very mixed bag. i have mixed feelings about it. they, they the very fact the justices people want to start approaching this in a more balanced way. applying the law to everyone, i suppose is a plus, but because it comes from the i, c, c. i just really don't know what to think about it. what do you think of i agree, i don't think dice se has much credibility of any credibility at all. and no, do any of the international institutions that were created since the 2nd world war

. they're all dominated by the west, more or less, some or worse summer if it's better. but this particular institution is very much under the influence of the united states and its head is on the very much under the implants of the united states. but it does show something, just like the 3 european countries that are recognized palestine. it doesn't change anything, but it does show something. and that is the global public opinion. and western public opinion are putting pressure on these institutions on these regimes where they have to be seen as behaving differently. i. i'm sure that dicey had no intention whatsoever of doing anything against is where it is. but things have become so bad that if they don't take some slight steps, then they become completely discredited in the eyes of even the most naive of people. you know, so it's in a way, it's kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't. i mean 7 months and they decide to do

something like this. again, trying to create this false equivalency. but nonetheless, it is something that i didn't really expect when we 1st heard about this. we came out of tell a b and not from anywhere else, not from the hague. that's for sure. and then it's happened here. so i know i, i'm a cynic, i take victories where i can take them. i do take, this is a victory. but it, we don't even know if the icpc is going to exist very much longer considering the, in the reaction of the americans and its allies go ahead. so as well. yeah, i mean like you, i think a, you know, of course there's certainly an element of both side isn't in the fact that the i c . c. not only indicted or not only is asking for indictments for the 2 is really leaders, but also for the 3 major is a how much. so that's something which i think is not a not, not fantastic, but um, you know, that having and said, i do think, you know, this is a pretty positive step. it's an important step and it could lead to some, you know,

really positive change to the top. now, you know, we have to see, i mean, what's happening now for sure is biden, and the rest of the american administration is making phone calls, trying to strong arm of europeans and probably my government, the japanese into saying that they will ignore the ice, any kind devices, the indictment maybe that they're trying to fracture them to do the funds, the i c. c. i like to say to destroy it. let's hope it doesn't happen. i mean, you know, i spent most of my career a 1st lobbying for the creation of the i c. c. and been trying to convince people that you know, despite its faults. and despite the fact that it had only indicted african leaders for the, for 20 years of it's like the average, the n, slobs, africans, and slobs. okay. well afterwards, yes. for the 1st 20 years. and then 20 years later, of course it was, you know, it was present food and then there were the russians in the dock and it was very interesting. the other day khan was interviewed. i think it was by cnn. and he said

that he had been told point blank by a certain, quote unquote, a certain investor leader didn't say who would have an interesting site that would have been interesting to hear him. but he was told point blank that you guys can see is not too. it's not to indict israel, it's, it's for africans. and i think it was um, so it was like, put in, i think that was the quote that you've been told. so you know that very much shows that hip hop proceed and double standards, but, you know, here we are. and like you say, i mean the evidence against israel, the evidence of you know, he's real, committing to set aside and committing the surrender. some more crimes and crimes against humanity is so overwhelming. yeah. that there's just no way that they could of gotten out of doing this and let's, you know, let's see what happens when we're doing. what does the interesting thing, one of the interesting things about this indictment that they are coming out of the i. c. c is that there's more of a highlight on the they have pocket see of western institutions, not really on the merits, because as always, just pointed out, i mean,

this is over what it's fine that you're trying to convince people that the sun comes out in the day and it sets a night, i mean, the evidence is so overwhelming, but watching them dance around and twist themselves into pretzels. that is the spectacle or, you know, line or, you know, the, i looked at western media a mainstream media and it feels like treated as the 51st stage. i mean, there is no difference between israel and the united states. i find this truly bizarre. but if they want to go down the path, then blinking and biting, and sullivan, they're going to end up in the dock using the same logic here. i guess that's what they're afraid of right line. oh, i don't know because i'm trying to try to explain to you gentlemen what it's like to live. as i say in the 1st fall, i am living in the parallel universe. sometimes i have to look to see where there is evidence of change elsewhere to it. just a while ago people were saying the i u. c. c is great. they don't know what the

issue was. he thought it was a, perhaps it was a federal commission. so somebody called to the international call k using court and they were africans or whatever. and they got poking and, and it's great. didn't make sense. what about nothing, yahoo and yeah. oh, and i loved the way they never even mentioned the names of them. us and 3 other whatever. they don't even mention it. so all of us others that way them, it doesn't make any sense. excuse me, be careful what you asked for. you said it was great. yeah, but, but wait a minute now was a runaway court, but we didn't, but it wasn't before. the next thing that's interesting. is and you're gonna laugh at me gentlemen. so let me apologize in advance of all of a sudden those people who, who idea of, of i guess news is people magazine or whatever. all ma clooney. george clooney is wife george clooney, the, the high priest of the, of cabal, whatever you want to call the woke left is his wife. not only is the is mr.

conduct her mentor, but she research just now the left and the right. and we've talked about this better, they don't know what to do. and they're also saying, why do you think this came about? why do you think this came about, all of a sudden, what was it that changed everything in my lifetime? i've never seen anything like this. let me tell people are saying, you know, maybe these protests which you're writing is being stupid and ill conceived and manufactured by children. try and try to regroup with some healthy and days of the sixty's. maybe that did it. maybe the world to use a cloud swapped, or maybe this is the great reset, but nobody saw this come here, but this is, it really is. it's a reset that the establishment wasn't prepared for. it's for sure. you know, how many do i mean? one of you know, and looking at the, i mean, i get, i agree with kind of saul, you know, i, i, it's a moving the right direction from a very flawed institution. but even looking at the long description of what, what,

how this process is going to move forward. you, the reader doesn't get the impression that palestine garza, the westbank, is under occupation, israel as the occupying power. it has responsibility. i don't see that in the text . maybe i don't know enough about the lots to pick it up. go ahead mohammed. and it's not only does that. it's also the west banks just yesterday, 11 palestinians were murdered in the west bank uh spoke to i think 2 school children, one surgeon and one teacher, while i'm on. those were killed. there's footage of the of the, of the children being shop on the streets lying down dying. but that doesn't register anywhere. apparently. uh, as a is, of course of the scenes of guys that we can only find them online. we're not going to see them in the way mainstream. western media in western government officials are not going to say anything about it. and there's not going to be any condom

nation from any of the western embassies in tel aviv. but um, but i, but i agree that the, with both of you a guess there has been a sea change it i, the israel is not the 51st dates. i think it's that, that sort of like the district of columbia. but well, the how well, how many, if that is the case that it means it's is really occupied territory, keep going. it is, is really occupied territory, but there is a see change. and i do think that not only is it the protests across the world and governments across the global south that are looking in the harm. but it is young people across the western world and in the united states in particular. and i would stress, young jewish america has the same issue or kins, yet they're putting pressure on the political system. and that i think is what is

forcing them to make some slight moves in order to decrease the pressure. yeah, but it's interesting, a slight mood can turn into of an avalanche and i think that's what we're seeing right now. you know, so it's all, you know, i'm not a psychologist. i know a lot of people go on tv and pretend to be one. they're also military experts in they're also experts on russia, etc, etc. but i get this ceiling vents, you know, uh, somewhere like a. com is thinking about his legacy, how he is going to be remembered during these time. so i think a lot of people get meaning to realize that they're going to be judge, maybe not now, but history will judge them harshly. go ahead. well, i certainly think, i think so. you know, i don't know. i don't know, constantly ecology. so i can sort of, you know, speak for him, but i'm, i'm pretty sure that, you know, a lot of people are looking around and seeing, seeing that they are on the wrong side of history. and the way the want to get on the right side of history. unfortunately, the us present by them doesn't seem to have done that yet. but you know, one of the things about this whole, you know, the whole discourse about, you know,

what the eyes see has done and what you, what we're talking about about gaza. and of course, because it's not just because it's also the west bank and west bank also includes east jerusalem. and all this is, you know, this is extremely important as well. but it's also important not to lose sight of the fact that he's real isn't a part of the state. and this is not just about nathan, yahoo and you know, just a couple of handful of is really politicians. no, i mean each and every point is really politician from at least $67.00 if i saw from solve solve all that thought, i have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on palestine. stay with the

russian states. never as one of the most sense community best, most all sense and up the in the 6595 and speed. what else calls question about this? even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on the russians to day and split the ortiz food, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services. steve, steve, the says world war 2, united states has fostered extremist and to russian prejudices and hatreds among

the ukrainian. the asked for in, at least in canada, united states and countries in eastern europe, probably everywhere. and it doesn't matter what these groups say or do it will support them. here's it. here's the groups are causing hatred and chaos within the target country. so it might done on the choose the gun scale or do you sort of do well, i suppose for the middle, i know my surplus leads up and it was so easy just to keep all the way of reach me get the ca, uses anyone and anything if there's a religion the,

[000:00:00;00] the the welcome back across sack, were all things are considered. i'm peter the belcher manager were discussing palestine. the okay, let's go back to solve it before we went to the break here talking about how much further culpability there is. if you're going to be indicting the prime minister of israel and the for a and the defense minister of these are not accurate, these are actors that have enormous amount of power. and we all know to,

and i think this is what it is. so a stomach churning is that this is a genocide that is being actively um, shown on line. we have is really soldiers, me appraising their, their crimes on yeah. into the camera. i mean, we all can see it. okay. i mean, the one, the most glaring one for me was watching the they were blowing up the university. i mean, the whole building, i'm and it was and it was very well staged. i have to say, and he's standing there grinning. i don't understand of a hebrew, but i mean, he was really happy that he was part of the destruction of something that is one of the basis of civil society in palestine. and so, i mean how much for this go. i mean, if you're going to bring these 2 guys to trial, you're going to have to bring a whole lot more. go ahead so well, that's exactly my point. i mean, it's not just a handful of it's really politicians that are no problem, maddox year. and that's, you know, the problem with the whole sort of the most extreme right wing government in israel narrative that we see a lot of, you know,

we've got to look at also what's been happening within the borders of israel, of 40 the 48 palestinian territories and you know, all this, the whole story narrative about the 2 state solution, the 2 state solution is the only way for the to say solution is the only way the piece will ever come to say solution is the only feasible level of love with her. this, you know, ad nauseum for all of our so called leaders over and over and over. but the fact that the matter is a 2 state solution, you know, is, comes from this partition resolution. but the un general assembly adopted in 1947. now 1947. there were 55, maybe it was 56 member states in the united nations is completely dominated by the west. and it's all us. so that's how we have this, you know, quote of a 2 state solution. the only reason that we're even talk about this. and this is somehow because the default option is because it goes back to 1947. and basically, the, you know, the western dominated united nations coming from the policy people. it's like,

what, why don't you give half of your country over to these western colonizers, boy, that sounds like a great idea. and we've got to look at the, you know, sheer injustice and the policy of that to what, you know, in my home, in the, the argument, you know, you hear all the time a, i'm in my entire life. you know, israel has the right to exist. israel has the right to sell to spend those of the favorite ones. oh, and the 3rd one is it's complicated. okay. that's, that's kind of the, the, the, the design is propaganda that we're all side fed all the time. but i mean, if you look at that, we have a 143 countries in the world recognize palestine is a state. okay. and uh, tony blinking says, we don't want to do anything unilaterally. well, a 143 countries that's not unilateral. that's kind of like the vast majority of the world. what we're getting down to is it and the question should be, you know, it should does. what is real? have the right to exist, but it is a desirable for it to exist as a design estate mohammad. well, peter, i think over the years we've, we've seen

a lot and the things are now very different from the past. the last 78 months has really changed the world. i never thought i'd see that things are key or the things that i'm seeing and hearing today, the world has turned against this regime. and there's a lot of awareness about what sign is. i'm actually means with those departments is i'm in apartheid is and they can't hide this anymore. and it's really changing everything by the way. even now western media they've for the last 3 days since president rest raised the passed away in the helicopter accident. they've been saying that the ronnie ends are celebrating and then online and social media. we see millions of people in the different funerals and tap ron, and right now and mass side and elsewhere. and no one believes the west anymore. no one believes is really anymore. no one believes the united states anymore,

they've destroyed themselves and they're, they're destroyed, their credit ability, their soft power. and so now people across the world are saying that there's really wishing does not have moral legitimacy. and that the only real solution is for a single state where all people have equal rights and people when they hear that, they say yes, that makes sense. make sense? yes, it makes sense. they're all human beings equal human beings. they should all be able to live together and they see as you point out that the is not this, not just the palestinians were showing a footage of daily slaughter. and the massacre is happening 24 hours a day. they are seeing this rain. these are just as you pointed out, tearing up atrocities and laughing about it and enjoying what they're doing and none of them being punish. and none of them be why because that's the, the regime itself backs this sort of behavior. so them kind of has no clothes,

and i think that that is going to have enormous consequences in the years to come in a line or it's the uh it's, it's well known, the iron clad support the, the united states has for israel, but it's always funded really mystifying and truly disappointing is that if you could put it into the american contexts, who today defense jim crow, who, who defends that kind of apartheid like system that the united states had. we mean how, you know, hollywood goes to the bank every, every single year, you know, you need to, you know, grow. so i grew up on route, so i remember watching it as a child. okay. i mean, why can't that kind of explanation be honestly displayed to people saying if you support israel and what it's doing, then you support what they did in the south. and jim crow, i have a friend of mine who is a, who's a bigger discount, a movie fantasy. i remember movie jango, i say, yeah. is it, what is that about? is it what does that about? that's about

a slave who basically comes back and you likes, i didn't you. uh, 2 things. thank god for unfettered social media. thank god for twitter. i have, there are some sites. i know what i mentioned now. all of depths of absolute. and i'm a former prosecutor, i've seen murder, see, i have seen it all. and the thing that i, i probably tell my friends are people who the unenlightened. i said, look, i'm not trying to explain one way the other just look at what's going on. tell me what this is about. to look at the looks in the face of these people who are going through and picking up bodies look into look they, they have almost like they're just the 1000 yard stare there. they have. they've been doing this for too long the other day there was a quote, comedian, i'm not going to mention his name, who decided he's going to address the crazy left young people. and i've got to tell you gentlemen what he said, which is to me. exam exemplifies the fact that people don't know what they're talking about. he said, you know, people and gaza would find it a lot better and a lot easier to live if they could go to tell

a beat. especially if you're gay or the, or whatever that particular phrase was, it'd be great if they could go to tell the be and the, and the whole said, that's the idea. that's what we're talking about. so what occurred to me were talking about basically a rudimentary absolute basic misunderstanding using trumps and means that ideas 30 years ago, 40 years ago. and this is an idea of these, of this new kind of a. okay, we're going to look at this again. no. the best way to expose the truth is to let this load se prevail and just listen to one and say, i don't have to correct anything. this is self correcting. just listen to this. i don't know what they're talking about. forget talking about zion is and we'll just look at this, ask this question. do you want this to continue? as somebody helped me here, or they don't use the word genocide to say, okay, how about massacre you like that? is it okay maybe? and i said, god, you prefer that we, we,

we are so from totally as over specific definitions, missing the entire point that we as a space, you to say this has got to stop. we'll talk about the other stuff later. but this has got to stop. yeah. but not, you know, why don't we, you know, the people that support the, the slaughter in, in, in gaza and in the assault on the west bank they, they want us all to lose our humanity, like they have lost their humanity. but i refuse to do that. i refuse to close my heart because i feel that i'm comfortable if i don't talk with the way i'm talking right now a. so is israel's worst enemy itself? i guess you can say that. yeah, i mean, definitely i look positive change is never going to come from within is really society. i mean it's just not going to happen. it has to be forced upon them. and really it's united states and europeans, but more than anybody do another system, this really has to happen. you know,

you mentioned before that is really starting into the 50 for state and i think somebody so there's actually the, you know, it's, it's the, it's the district of columbia. you know, we used to jokes out to washington dc was the a tunnel it on divided capital of israel. and just a, a just a few days ago i read the to republican congressman introduced a bill which if it were passed, it would mean that the us funds would go to american citizens who had served. yeah, these really yeah. military. so they would get like equivalent benefits as american veterans who had served in the american military. this is just insane. i mean, never in the history of i, i, you know, me the, i don't know, but i certainly never heard of anything like this in the history of mankind or taxpayer funds would go to reward people who had served in for an army. yet this was completing center. yeah. yeah, but yet, and it's like, oh what, what does that make? it makes it even worse. i agree with you there. it's a form of mercenaries, but what makes it worse is that the tax payers would be finding the same people to

commit more crimes. that's what makes it even worse. keep going. well, exactly. i like you say, i mean is real is, is worse than him and you know, way, but it's, it's out of control. i mean, is really, society is completely out of control. and you know, i saw, of course, i live in palestine for 5 years and i, i interact with the menus rarely as, of course. and i saw how they were a socialist into believing that the whole world was against them. and you know, the next whole, the cost of just around the corner and they've got the, you know, the got to give before somebody. yeah. but solving it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. i'll get the last minute to my home. it should be because of what they do. the world is touring against them. it's a self fulfilling prophecy mohammed. yes, they are their own worst enemy because dates, hum us and hezbollah and, and sought out on the others and you run with them. have defeated. there's really, really, militarily, but is rarely do real. the feet is the fact that the israelis have destroyed their

image in the eyes of the world by committing these atrocities that defeat is far greater than anything else. and people won't forget that. that's what happened during the 2nd world war to the nazis and others. and there's ran, these are the worst anti semites themselves because they are doing all of this in the name of judaism. and that's why the, the, the courage of these young american and european jews is so important because they're paving to and they're, and what they're saying is that they have their own self determination. and because they have their own, they want to see others have it as well. gentleman, that's all the time we have one to think, my guess in new york. sorry about and into that. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c a next time. remember, the

the when the world's largest democracy votes the rest of the planet watches in an emerging multi polar world. india's voice matters. but who will be the power behind watches, almost 1000000000 people decide and billions more, react the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. a fixtures designed to simplify all confused who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few. fractured images presented as fast? can you see through their illusion going underground? can

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that thank you so that we can see it on there, which is central funding put, is that correct? uh yeah, that'd be the of the great news here and i'll see you tonight. so rough enough, so these have couldn't fun the inc. whitney movie until it is was involved in the deadly terrorist attack on a most comfortable 2 months ago. well then 20 suspects of being arrested. football was calling him and a host members of kids in new not see as the but how the and the form of pm far as don't some schools i'm scared of the. ringback the