is really forces so far in the conflict, and most of them have been women and children. there's no end in sight to the conflict. here in the united states, the initial shock and sympathy for israeli civilians quickly dissipated with the fast rise and civilian deaths. thousands of students set up and camp minutes on university grounds, calling for peace and for the universities to divest from investments in israel. the logical next step would have been for university leaders to engage the students in a conversation and perhaps to consider their demands. but instead, the protests which had been almost entirely peaceful, were met with violence police arrest and students by the hundreds. they fired tear gas and rubber bullets, and they forcibly uploaded the 10th and cap mintz destroyed them and threw them away. even worse, many of the universities led by columbia, had the students charged with crimes including criminal trespassing. but if a student is trespassing, that means that he or she can't go to class and worse,

it means the student can't even go to his or her own student housing. so not only were the students arrested, they were also essentially thrown out of school and made homeless. it was a pattern that soon was repeated across the country. our guest today has followed this issue very closely. he's been on campus with the students and his written about developments extensively. we're very happy to have chris hedges with us. chris is a pulitzer prize winning journalist who was a foreign correspondent for 15 years for the new york times, where he served as the middle east bureau chief and the bulk and bureau chief for the paper. you previously worked overseas for the dallas morning news. the christian science monitor and national public radio. he's the host of the show, the chris hedges report present. thanks so much for joining us. we're glad to have you. thank you, john. chris, i'd like to begin with a very powerful piece that you wrote for consortium news about the university

demonstrations at the very start of the article. you said a scene where the campus at columbia university is locked down, police of sealed off the entire neighborhood. nobody can get in or get out why we're seeing so severe. these were peaceful demonstrations aside from a broken window and a little bit of graffiti. why the heavy handedness? because these universities are not responding to the internal realities of these peaceful encampments. and uh, there they are responding to external pressure uh, from powerful donors who support the design is uh, from uh, the administration, the democratic party. uh, they're, they're not responding to the reality on the ground. so in fact, of course, they've exacerbated the problem. they've made it worse, they have sought and unfortunately the media has echoed this to define these

encampments as an assault, or are i against israel against jews? i've been in several of these and cameron so many times in columbia in princeton. and i would say 30 or 40 percent of the people demonstrating are jewish. uh, in fact i found it quite moving. they both at columbia and at princeton. uh. they hold uh friday evening prayers and then they hold siobhan services for all of the students. and then on sunday, actually i'm ordained, actually priest one sunday at the service up with the president and cabinet. oh they sir. we serve communion to everyone. so it's, it's really moving. uh, but that's why they uh, uh and, and, and, and that of course is in rates as it should. these student protesters be as administrations, are not only not carried out in kind of, in,

with very few exceptions carrying out any kind of meaningful dial up. but they're using drag pony and floors probably. in the case of colombia, we saw police and, or, uh, renamed hamilton all hines. oh, with their guns drawn in facts shot was fired inside. all a student was knocked or thrown down the stairs and knocked unconscious. people have been beaten you so that's the reason the reason is they're not actually responding to what's happening internally on their own campuses. they're responding to their attempting to play to external pressure. and that's why you saw the president of harvard and university of pennsylvania to do them any good. they're both on a go down in bravo, like the president of columbia before these right wing troglodytes in congress. you make what i think is a very important point in this article. columbia university's president minutia feet is a british egyptian baroness who may her career in places like the bank of england,

the world bank, and the international monetary fund. she was in no mood to negotiate or even to have a conversation with students who were demanding change. is this actually a class conflict edit score? i would say it's a, it's in a way. yes, it's so universities, and of course i've taught at columbia, princeton n y u in a few others they are, they have been corporatized and so they are now run on a corporate structure. so in the case of to fix it doesn't come out of academia at all. she comes out of the corporate world. she comes out of the world of finance and they, they build, they've, they've reconfigured or to form these universities a long corporate lot. so you have highly paid administrators. these are people pulling down salaries and hundreds of thousands of dollars will often come out of the corporate world. and then you have,

this is not so much true at the very least private universities. but it is true at most universities, you then have the, the burden of the teaching of falls on the shoulders of adjuncts who essentially replicate workers in the gig economy. they have no job security. they are actually paid by the course and not very much. uh, $4000.00 is not a he is off in the north, so they're, they're making $24000.00 a year without benefits. but they're carrying most of so they replicated the corporate model. they have attempted to monetize departments at the university where they have to raise their own money. not only for research, but often for salaries. well, that's very hard to do in the humanities, which is why the humanities are withering away. and why you see an increasing emphasis. and this is true at universities like stanford or princeton,

which are private universities. you focused on stem and science, technology, economics and map. and that is what the corporate world and i should add the defense industry wants. so some of this reaction i think is engendered by the fact that the people running these universities don't actually come out of academia. they are not scholars. they, they, uh, have been for a, by the corporate world. and corporate hierarchies are of a very totalitarian you, you are not allowed to, if you work for a corporation, have any opinion that the corporation deems uh, controversial or, and palatable. and that is also what is infected universities across the country. one of the things that confused me from the very start of the demonstrations was why administrators didn't just let them run their course. they started near the

very end of the school year. students were going to go home at the end of the summer, they were going to graduate or start summer jobs or internships. so why the arrests, the expulsions and the desire to snuff these demonstrations out? because their job, i'm talking about the administrators and the presidents. their jobs were in jeopardy. of course you're right. i actually was speaking at the encampment at princeton and somebody came up with a megaphone. it was mine and held it. there was a few 100 students. and uh there was a ban on amplified sound. there was also a band on tents. so these poor kids are sleeping out sometimes in the rain, wrapped in tarts and blankets are not allowed to bring sleeping bags. and so cap of security came over and didn't stop and then they, um, i couldn't see it. they were behind me. they started moving to arrest me and the students got off and linked arms and surrounded me to uh to prevent it.

um, uh, but of course the whole reaction has been again for an external audience, not an internal audience. i. and when i was speaking afterwards to the head of campus security, i said look, you know, you said let them put their tens up and deliver them pieces every night for precisely the reason you just set um. but in fact, what they have done is, uh uh, by not, not only not responding in a meaningful way to the demands, but by using this kind of outsized forest across here it is that it spread like a wall far um and that is uh, but again, it's because uh at, for the point to point out, uh, they, uh, they, it, a rational response would have been the response that you just elucidated. but this is not, this is, they're not responding to the kids. they're not responding to what happens on

campus. i mean, you know, they're, they're arrested for trespassing, but these are students who have a valid id is they're arrested for trespassing on their own campus. i mean, the whole thing is you can kind of make it up. one of the things, one of the lies the university city and put these leaders have used to justify the crack down, has been that there were what they called outside agitators. people who were not students, but who went to the demonstrations to provoke violence. it's my impression that this was a red herring, that there really were no outside agitators. what was your experience? well, there are people from the outside who joined the protests, but this is a student driven protest. so what they're attempting to do is say that it's not, uh, you know, it doesn't come it's, it's not born out of the university setting, but it has been provoked by people on the outside. that of course is completely on through a just like the idea that these encasements are somehow anti semitic or anti jewish

. in fact, of course i would say to students who receive the most harassment are those joy students who are supporting cabinets from zionists. but we have seen a series of not only with the violence by design is mob against the in camera that you see a way but at columbia and other places, people have been jeered, pushed, punched in any case. so we have 3 former israeli soldiers were students at columbia use gunk spray that is in front of these rallies. it's a very noxious spray. they sprayed 3 protesters on the steps of low library of columbia. and i think that's another frustration on that, that the wheel assaults are being carried out by designers and they're overlooked. and then of course, the group itself, or the king cameron's themselves are mischaracterized as you point out, as being run by outside agitators and mischaracterized as being anti semitic. and

this is just really a way to divert and the media. of course, my old employers in your time has been off on this. it is a way to divert attention from the fundamental issue, which is the genocide that's taking place and got present. i'd like to ask you to stay with us. we're going to talk about some, some of the effects that we're seeing in the media stemming from these demonstrations. and i'm including the so called independent media. we're going to take a short break, but stay tuned. we'll be right back. 2 2 2 2 2 2 the the language, the behavior is, has become really extreme in the west. so i think again, it's because they're,

there, empire is on the, on the decline. it's wrapped with the decline, the, the declining b. c. it following. and it just makes them more angry, more fast style, and more full of patriots. the sense world war 2, united states has fostered extremist and 2 russian prejudices and hatreds among the ukrainian d. as for in at least in canada, united states and countries in eastern europe, probably everywhere in the it doesn't matter what these groups say or do. it will support them. if it is, the groups are causing hatred and chaos within the target country. done on the cheese,

but it should bounce page sort of do well as well as what is the name of my socialist needs? the potential is usually just $50.00, and that's the way of reaching the good news is anyone at any time if there's a religion the the welcome back to the list of players. i'm john 3. i'll go we're speaking with chris hedges. he's a pulitzer prize winning journalist who was a foreign correspondent for 15 years for the new york times, where he served as the middle east bureau chief, and then the bulk and bureau c. for the paper he previously worked overseas for some of the most important news outlets in america. he's the host of the chris hedges report. good to have you with us, chris. thank you john. chris,

you have what i consider to be one of the most important and informative programs in independent journalism. it's called the chris hedges report and has been available not just on your subs deck, but also at the real news network. you recently interviewed former congressman dentist percentage for the show dentist is a serious political figure, a long time peace activist and even a former presidential candidate. but out of the clear blue sky, the real news network, a major independent outlet not only decided to drop you, but also removed your interview with dentist percentage. what happened at the real news was this a result of outside pressure? i can only speculate what happened or why the official reason was that the interview was dentist as well as my own show jeopardize their non profit status . nothing that i said with dennis i did not endorse in,

which would have jeopardized non profit status. they couldn't point any examples of any show that i've done where that was true because i haven't um, uh, but the, they really have one major funder guide mtm scruggs. he's come for me before i wrote a column for share post defending alice walker from charges that she was an anti semite. and he demanded that the publisher of the post bob should remove the article, or he would revoke the funding. he was a major funded for the side, bob refused, and he cut off the funding. he has told the real news, according to max alvarez, runs the real news that if they do anything to contribute to the election of donald trump, they will lose their funding. that's just an inverted way of saying support joe biden, and the democrats, i have been a long supporter of 3rd party candidates. indeed i was ralph nader speech rider. he

knows that i and a dentist is running as an independent dentist and the interview was critical of both of the parties. and so that episode was removed and then i was in my show was immediately terminated. but this was part of the diminishing space within the news industry member or a decade ago on myself, matt t r i e b, glen remote, we were main street we. we have voices within the main street, and that's all been shut down for you when you have wealthy donors controlling new sites. this is true. and so on. it's which was founded by david talbot and its inception, was very good alternator in other sites. and then they essentially destroy, i would call it any kind of journalistic integrity. in fact, the voices of people like dennis, it's important that we give a platform to the voices, those voices because of the legacy media,

commercial media blocks them out. they, they have no platform at all, so that's what happened. i'll reconstituted and it won't be, it'll just be a technical attic, but it can be reconstituted. and i would say, you know, the other thing that i find very cynical is that i drove most of their traffic. i mean, no shows have hundreds of thousands of views. several shows over a 1000000 a few shows over 2000000. there's nothing on the site that comes close to that, but what they care about obviously was the money, not the content. and let's talk specifically about the extended interview. i watched the interview and i kept waiting for him to say something, outrages something offensive or dangerous, and of course he didn't. he was his normal self. so what was it that the real news network was objecting to? or did it really have nothing to do with the dentist goosenich way? had it tangentially, it has something to do is dennis and that he's not running as

a republican or democrat. and also the fact that he was critical of both binding and trump. uh, and that was just unpalatable. i mean, if you read the statement, it was uh, they cancel the show because i might jeopardize their non profit status, which is ridiculous because the shows are not alive their, their pre tape, if there was anything i said to jeopardize their non profit status, it could be corrected or they wouldn't have to run it, but i wouldn't do that anyway. i mean i understand the rules, but i do think it is important to give a platform to people like dennis. he's a very serious politician. serve many years in the house, as you said, was a anti war presidential candidate to credibly thoughtful a former mayor of cleveland. um, uh so yeah, i mean, i think this is unfortunately the power of donors. um no, there was nothing in the interview. it was, there was nothing incendiary at all in the interview. it was by this thoughtful, careful reason, discussion of our political situation and the kind of

a death trap that we've been forced into with these 2 major ruling parties. i mean, having worked for nater, i saw how the 2 ruling parties conspired or conspire to essentially make it impossible for 3rd party candidates for independence. the amount of credible can't pay. and they do that because they're funded by the same forces, northrop grumman and race, you know, out in goldman sachs and citibank and everyone else. um, so yeah, it was, it was, it didn't make any sense. i mean, there are the reaction, of course, has been quite fierce against what they did as it should be, because i didn't violate any rules or norms. i just waited into a discussion. and i, i don't know this for a fact, but they were, you know, pretty strongly suspect enraged their principal, donor. and they decided that that donor was more important than myself. but because

they, they wanted their money. and where does independent journalism go from here, chris? it's tough enough to make a living as an independent journalist, it's tough enough for those outlets to raise enough money to keep going. how can they and how should they confront outside pressures to either skew the news or shut them down? well, the only model left the works is clearly the model of the wealthy donor doesn't work. we tried that. it trusted. we had a wealthy publisher who funded the site and then she tried to fire the editor in chief box. here i organized a strike among all the 2 of the staff and then she fired all of us on the site still exists, but as a shadow of itself, i don't think anyone reads it, nor should they. um, so the model is the subscription, so i'm on subs stack that article that you spoke about, the nation's conference originally came out on sub stack. so some people pay like

$6.00 a month and that funds my work that works. and that's how that's how you be survives, that's how glen green will survive. surprised. i think it's difficult for people who are known quantities to get enough of a subscription base to continue their work that worries me. so young journalists, you know, i, when i began my journalism career in the early eighties, i freelanced for all sorts of newspapers that far was overseas in central america, a freelance for the philadelphia inquirer, the baltimore sun, the boston glow, the christian science monitor a national public radio that's dried up that even that freelancing work is dried up . so i worry, i worry about the state of journalism, especially on the local level. um, uh, yeah, i think it's a, it's a serious problem. i mean, those of us who have established reputations can get enough uh, subscribers to be able to do our work. uh,

but i think that's because we to come into the public consciousness as known edits and um, yeah, it's a, it's, it's very frightening. and i of my entire career, i have seen the collapse of an industry, however, fluoride and i work for publications like the new york times that have many flaws. however, the, you know, the death of turtle is maybe the major city papers now or a shadow of what they were. i was in the philadelphia inquirer newsroom. they actually sold their building, but before they sold it, they used to have 750 reporters and editors. they were down to $200.00. so that meant that more than 3 quarters of the desks were empty. it was really frightening . really here i drove home. the point of that journalism as an industry is collapsing, i mean everything's going down the vice news. i mean, i don't read sports illustrated. that's gone. it's yeah, it's, it's and, and, and if my friend sidney sandburg, if you ever seen the killing,

feels was based on his reporting with this problem. another friend in cambodia, you know, he was pushed out of the new york times, but he said, you know, we may not have made things better. but maybe we stop things from getting worse. and i think that's right. because once a communities, once the police department, of course it goes dark, there's no outside observer at all. then we see an escalation of the abuse of power . so yeah, and then let's not forget julian, the so they, the persecution of doing a search is done quite consciously, to essentially intimidate and shut down any investigations into the inner workings of power. and, and the persecution of julian, or what niels males are, cause a slow motion execution of 2 in a search in bellmarks prison, where it's now been held for 5 years. is a message to the rest of us, it doesn't matter is not american. it doesn't matter where you're from,

what national it now, what are you from? if you expose the crimes that we commit, then we will find you anywhere in the world, expedite you and put you in prison for the rest of your life. i mean, to see i discussed worse than that. of course, they discussed the kidnapping him while he was seeking refuge in the ecuador, an embassy in london or assassinated. one final question about the situation in palestine. chris, you're in old, middle east, and is there any opportunity for peace in the midst of all this devastation can you envision a change in global public opinion that could result in these re lease or the americans finally allowing the palestinians the same rights and freedoms that these rallies have not in the short term um, but in the long term. yes. i think that the uh, the older biden generation, they have a kind of an emotional tie to israel. i think we see now, and i'm speaking of course, even among american jews. those ties are no longer there is real,

has been exposed for what it is and apartheid state that carries out either a slow motion or in this now and draws a very fast motion ethnic cleansing and genocide. i don't think that's recoverable . but in the short term, especially because we give them billions and billions of dollars of weapons they can decimate causing and there are those within and that's in yahoo capital. want to turn around, decimate the west bank in the short term. i don't hold out much hope in the long term, i think is really which already has the kind of parias status as essentially created, including in countries in the united states, a generation that no longer has that kind of fealty to israel much less the etiology is i some so, but unfortunately for those palestinians in gaza, i think the situation at the moment is pretty bleak. chris, i just thank you so much for your time. former israeli prime minister golden. my

year one said disingenuously. that piece could be achieved in the middle east, only when errands loved their children more than they hated israel. i would say that the opposite is actually true if these really that must give their palestinian brothers sisters and neighbors the same respect and rights that they demand for themselves. and here in the united states, the government, the universities, the media, and indeed all of american society must practice what it preaches, whether for themselves or for palestinians. thanks for joining us for another episode of the width of lowest. i'm john curiosity. please follow me on subsets add john to reaku will see you next time the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the,

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the as a result of why it's can be started by line, please. kennedy started by turn, the importance of, we could never be of a station, so that transparency is next for to rejoin mystic. patrice then just succeeded in finding documents that existed in making them available to the world public. i mean, what could be more holding back by publishing information and sharing information with the public. he was exercising the right to free speech. he did so in the public interest, wants to so long realize tends to me uh and endlessly, to relate to seriously. i know why advice may assume that no

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