sure is still going strong. the hello and welcome across by bullhorn john peter labelle. here we discussed some real news is you are preparing for direct military conflict with russia. evidence suggests the answer is yes. also international law and the real global community is working to hold israel to account how much isolation is the us willing to accept. to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, jordan, send me while we in budapest, he's a pod cast with the goggle which can be found on youtube and locals, and in marrow cash. we have martin jay, he is an award winning journalist and commentator. alright gentlemen, cross black rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want, then i always appreciate it. all right, let's start. i was injured with george in budapest, over the last week,

particularly we've seen these rumors of war as it were, coming from particularly something like the hum, gary and prime minister, but your urban but many, many others in the that obviously escalation of the conflict in ukraine is on the agenda as ukraine continues to fault, or i think as we speak right now, they're opening up the jails in the ukraine for convicts to go to the front. um, uh, we have a, a plethora of videos of, uh, circulating online but continued on for cannon fodder to send to the front. and we have simultaneously, we have people like david cameron, green line use those weapons deepened, or russia, british ones, by the way. and, and to be blinking, the state, the part of the, the secretary state, i'm trying to corral people into some kind of a forceful agenda to escalate even more. so george, where is this all going?

is this a because the way i think you can interpret in many ways the, you know there, unrelenting unwilling to accepted this whole project was as far as from the beginning. or this is an opportunity for to mobilize the west where a very long term agenda and not just against russia. george, that's a very good point to the, to and i think of the answer is both the, the hon. gearing and finding this the, the victo or bands interview a couple of days ago was a very interesting because he's a little hungry is taking part in these needs. so me things and i can tell you that in these meetings they are planning for and made. so, uh, involved and being ukraine and he said that, um, you know, if this continues, essentially, um hungry will have to opt out. now, he didn't exactly spell out what it means, opt out, but what, what type of se, but the fact the country will just simply the seems to be a member of the major. but he's saying that,

and he said this explicitly that europe is now in this situation. he wasn't in 1914 and then 19, so it denied it's on the brink of a well well. and then you have to say, well, why, why is that? and then you talk about this, the crisis in the ukraine. the problem arises that uh, you know, when do was breakout of who's breakout when great powers refused to give up. they can give up because if they gave up, they used to be great powers. they, they, they just seems that they will be seen to be they for tigers. and therefore they just have to, uh, go home and like a wounds great powers, a very reluctant to do that. and hence the escalation of this rhetoric, i mean one of the things you didn't, you didn't mention was it was a good friend. major secretary general youngster oldenburg gave names of you to the economists thing, which he also said, yeah, absolutely. we have to take a whole restrictions on the use of us and any messiahs given to the brain,

but they just don't know the body to the conflict. and um, and then we have um, the, the out probably i was going you k prime minister risky. soon i can also what he's going to introduce national solve is within this which somebody description. everyone can say exactly exactly. conscription and now it's true. these are unlikely to when any strew of labor has a criticize them. however, labor is the anointed one. these obviously they, they going to be in that. but i me say that doesn't, a labor itself is not going to introduce this in due course. so everyone is, is getting ready to boil big and why because they cannot admit to lose it because you lose then basically you will need done it's, it's interesting because, you know, when making you made reference to the, in the interview that, uh the on gary and prime minister, victor are the main with the economist a martin. i mean, he's absolutely right. i mean, looking at the,

the precursors of the conflict for world war one in world war 2. but i think everybody needs to stand back here is that if this is a conflict that the nato european countries want, i mean russia is not attacking any of these countries whatsoever. there is no in pending invasion of western europe by russia. there is no, and i mean even the, the, the biggest proponents were ukraine but probably wouldn't admit that it least not in pending right now. i mean, this is a craven choice on the part of your opinion. the leads in american awaits is to prepare for a war that they want. go ahead, martin that go nowhere else to go. i mean, that's through the problems, you know, wait back to minute themselves into this corner where by now they have run out sort of new plans, new ideas. and now what is the real point, the real objective. now all of these at least is just self preservation, you know, and unfortunately, indirectly the grading elite i would say because that's something else here. but

i'm talking about your team leader to see to how those, how the people that shows in my crone, and also to seem to keep that political base when it, even the device missing phone frenchman or german, can see that we're losing. and ukraine and russia is gaining a certain point that will be a tipping point. web mines will be focus on, the total will go through 3, will be more realistic rather than just to announce that i think what we origin closer to is. just recently the russian investor london told a british m b. but we know the little storm shadows being flooded by british soldiers. we know you didn't train your finance, you sent your own people to operate them. i think if america follows through with that, with his own equipment, she sends us on soldiers to find them. you know, we're a cigarette people away from the world. well, 3 scenarios, you know, i'm very, very dangerous. talk to the camera and others talk about hitting the inside rush.

so you know how, how much computes and take, you know, i mean, even, even, even he has a breaking point. his generals will be ongoing for, for a much more decisive, honestly against night. so because this nato is doing this, but in the midst of this, when i see from a distance, i suppose is lack of dialogue, lack of debates, lack of effect on, you know, met press coverage. you know, i mean what happens is when you completely pump down those, this when you start arresting john, unless, oh, you lost the sized them for taking a different line. you know, what happens is the lead start to believe the around b s. and this is really part of the story is like, you know, just recently last week there was some, as of, we gave soldiers in the british, panama. shameful, absolutely shameful. i'm not one british newspaper. right? well, so we had, we had the secretary of state anthony blank and sitting at a piece of pizza re and in care of with his counterpart with the nazi we go,

we own the walls. ok. i mean, george, you know anthony blank and went to israel. is a jew like is he a jew when he goes many visits key of when the scene, the nazi regalia. i'm george there. when you writers just reporting number of reports. okay. they had put in is agreed to freeze the con. uh, conflict. okay. uh i would like to read um, you know, i'd like to see those reports myself because i think everyone obviously once you see the complet come to in precinct complet plus neutrality plus change of reason. they don't mentioned that they just talked about one thing. but it's really interesting when we go back to the interview that put and made with ad with tucker carlson. why don't you just test the russians if you want to praise the conflict of tell me more, but they won't even do that. george. good less. exactly right. the to, and i don't think that i would probably say, we don't know that roy does ripple, which is a true, but it's not impossible because really is there is only one on file to that is the

growing up in the room and, and that's a built in and put in does not want to world war because this is crazy to escalate to was that? um and so i think he's putting forward, i mean maybe, i mean i, i find that plausible that he would put forward a scenario that again he thinks the west going to accept without feeling that they've been humiliated without feeling that they, they have now seems to be a great powers, i look, you know, if we freeze it along these lines, um, you know, you can at least say then you've got something we can say with the something and then we can bring this very dangerous confrontation to an end. the problem is that easy, living, there are no take goods and this goes back again to the, the, the discussions of man's coming. it is stumble, rusher made enormous concessions, really, very on favorable to russia. and it was the west. i said, no, no, we can, we can go away. we can actually conflict the total devastating strategic defeat on

russians, total humiliation for russia. and we can get away with then of those you comp. but it's the same reason you can't just simply the faith is you really a great power, but that was, it was the west but active there was balls. when is the west now, then instead of engaging and a serious dialogue because roof is clearly open to dialogue, have these nonsensical peace conference in switzerland to which russia hasn't been invited even today to say this is an entirely a public relations exercise. nothing to do with a peace conference, but just simply repeat, oh, we own it. was the landscape based plan, which was russian capitulation. you know, you know, martin, it's very interesting. we, we have heard repeatedly, particularly from the likes of the french president, mac chrome. you know, russia should not be allowed to win. well, that is, that is a wish list. that is a political statement, but that doesn't have anything to do with security. and moving forward, and that's always been the key issue that the west never really will open will

admit, is that the core of all of this rest of the security demands. and we had, we had this process during the cold war, b o s. c. we had the health in the process. no one in the west. no take there's, as george said, go ahead martin. yeah, i'll, they're going to be intake is now, you know, it, it doesn't seem to be so it, i think we have to wait for something quite a catastrophic to happen before head. so thing together that nascent level of a, you level for people to actually start talking about some the realities of what we can do, you know, made so count when this will what it's now looking at some diseases. i mean, i've been told by some of my m a g sources in new kinds of some ministers in the british government. now saying we need to get out of the crane. so these people are now starting to say, look, the reality is, this is what company one kind of be a will, which with is that can be some dignity and some grace and losing either can we step back from is, but i don't see any real of this scenario, so you're not seeing,

we're going round around in circles and um, i don't think names. so is the building really? it doesn't have the people in it who can really look at this realistically, and i've come up with anything intelligence, you know? so i think there's a, there are a number of elk similar ones that play here, even the narrative, you know, we keep hearing russia is coming. but that narrative is really nonsense because the people who bump bang, bang the drum and say the same countries that have completely depleted their own stocks, the minute of hardware. so, you know, you, you obviously don't believe in that in that well, i mean, in another, in decatur georgia. last 30 seconds here is that victoria new and it's suddenly back in the newest. i mean, i mean, you know, teach dislodge from her as perch. but she is actually leading the fight for the military industrial complex and the neocons 15 seconds george. yeah, she's and she's also echoing this has been, you talking fine, no restraints. that's all on the use of missiles and the, and that's what i have that everybody is on board for that. i'm just going back to

the mouth. you were saying that tory m p who said that it's the the, the, the british oh actually firing the storm shadow. miss us also says that with the, with the new care style and the government will actually we will be told that we are more than you just so he said that right on that dreadful thought gentlemen, we have to go to a hard break and that's about hard rig we'll continue our discussion. so me on the staying with r t the hi . i'm rick sanchez and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do the have the state department to see i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want my show state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again,

we don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you scott bennett, i'm a former united states army psychological warfare officer, really served in the state department counterterrorism office under investor del daily the . so i wanted to come here to russia in the dawn bass area and to gather the facts, to take back to the american people, the hold on bass of the front line. so this is where the bombs and the bullets are

raging. this is where people are dying. this is where the buildings are exploding the all. i wanted to see 1st hand the scars of war, the welcome back to prospect boulevards and peter labelle. here, we're discussing some real news. martin is, i guess, you know, you and i in george have been observers of politics for our entire adult lives. okay. and i never thought in my wildest imagination that b i c j and the i c. c would be so focused on, on a, been focused on the activities of israel and it's a legal behavior and it's a small town gone. so,

but here we are right now. but the problem with all of this is that the israel is isolated, but it's been isolated and for much of it's existence is a per of many countries in the world. i've always considered it a pariah. not a big difference. okay. maybe in magnitude and maybe um, uh, in breadth, but israel has been used to that status. the united states is not. okay. and the, the, the, the problem that is facing the united states and needs, it's close as allies. is it the more and more that the can genocide conventions are studied and applied? then you have complicity, and those that are complicit are in the same category is committing genocide itself . this is something the western world is slowly and terrifyingly waking up to go head martin where he up to. and also, i think realizing that the more we go down this right, the more that we start issuing these rips from the i c j. so definitely i missing,

i know those, you know, and the more america shows is really what is all about, what's in a, what is the i c, j for america? it's his, it's america's own to, for germany. nothing more, nothing less. and i think when i think it was instagram who said recently and in some sort of congressional meeting, you know, it's like going from this and yahoo and he's raised and will it be us next? and i think that really was martin if i can interrupt that was during a congressional hearing and they were protesters in the crowd witnessing that committees proceedings and they applauded it and he said, go ahead. you can applauded if you want. that was in the amazing moment. sorry for the reps, interrupted was absolutely amazing because it really left the cut of the back. now now with now there was clarity. now, you know, even the last few weeks we will be discussing, i had to wondering, you know, where is this heading on rudy? and i said to you, i think at the very beginning of the conflicts on the show, i sent them the current balance of the i. c j will really be hills now to it'll be

a real issue now. but in the very beginning, when it and it had his ruling a couple of months ago, you know, i think that point now is, is a fund even more and i'm not putting myself on the back. excellent questions. what i'm saying is that if the i see jack loses credibility, you know, of the shoot institutions around the world. i think i'm gonna follow because global south leads are just looking at his institutions and saying, well is last just now, just to help america squeeze. but as deals manipulates people, i'm sorry, people to jail, they kind of have a fascinated you know, then why should we be part of it? and what happens is that just accentuates a momentum towards breaks towards the east. you know, so i think come these recent announcements by the button administration following this, the, the legal case which is building up number the i c j. i think that's a real, that's a really bad signal towards huge wisdom to control institute what i mean. but martin if, if you look at the i, c, j,

then i'll go in and george right now. i mean, these are all what the inventions of the west in the, in the post world war 2 posting are in bird environment. these are all western institutions. i mean, it, and particularly the i, c, c, you know, the international called asian court, which so many people call it. but i mean it's, it's of these institutions. it is the legitimacy of the west to, to continue to lead and, and them, and make the demand that they have the right to lead, cause they can, they stand taller and they see further in the, all this other nonsense that we've heard, that is all at stake right now, it's just not institutions. it's this the, the very legitimate legitimacy of the western experiment for the human race, george us as a also to write these letters and just going back to your, the original question, which was that the, well, we could, yes, israel has often been isolated indians that actual community, but not the united states. and what's really going on now is really a kind of

a self inflicted wounds on the cause of the united states. because there's no reason for it because you know, yes, obviously the united states is in the best, most of the, in the global hedge them on once a bit dominate the world in a full spectrum dominance that talks what the united states has been about. but this unremitting support for israel stands in the way of that because the dispenser go for the for many, many reasons antagonizes unable for a lot of countries this way. it is completely isolated being the middle east. it has to be of war with its neighbors ever since its foundation that isn't likely to change any time. so america is on board, is that and then you exchange from nothing. so in right, good, isolated. so, and for a for goes, that's actually the chief, nothing for the united states. so now it's, it's, are issuing threats against me until i feel criminal court. doubtless it goes us up

issue and threats against age and i for the board of justice and bid that stands in the way all american global hatred. whenever you guys are a bunch of bowers, who are more than happy to be american ply and states do with america's bidding, but not on this issue, particularly in the middle east on this extra bit by calling follow the united states. so describe an ex road rate that of the self inflicted wounds that the united states. but in fact it probably was still the deep one. let me take even more dangerous for it. so, oh, you know, and because martin, if me in israel does what it does, because it deals, it has the privilege of impunity. and because it has american backing, it's all we have shielded. but that's why this happens. this is something the united states is allowed since the inception of visual, particularly since the 67 war. and now it's coming back to haunt them because this is not only is georgia is, you know, what does the us get out of this when they, when it looks it, it's global hedge. a monic rich not much is that is may,

may affect goods negative returns, but now this is impacting domestic politics in the western world. we see these huge divisions going on. and it is quite true a fine, you know, i mean, when do you know, george and i covered russia gates early when you know there was a new mccarthyism. what's going on now is books that level of mccarthyism and it's small potatoes in comparison. and for, for what, okay, so this and p energy is destroying the very fabrics of the ideals the, the values that we use. we claim to hold. go ahead martin. yeah, i think next and put it very well when he was talking about the book. he wrote, you said, you know, we don't really get much out of the relationship with israel. and the main reason why we're so close to these writers is because of the holocaust because the history you know, but i think to take george's point so very well. you know, self inflicted wounds such and such really and one that is gaping now, but it wouldn't be the button administration that looks at this from with any

objective perspective they want kind of had a cup to view. i think about the, the implications of the next 2010 or 20 years. it might be the next about this generation of politicians and leaders in america to question this relationship. you know, in the old days it was, well, we need is one in the middle east because if the sort of rebellious children otherwise 9 knows the adverb stays, but become a little bit naughty. and a bit difficult to deal with is real. be that a crack the width, i'm going to show the rest of the region, you know, who's really running the show, but well, and i big and also, and also martin unity. they mean the end of the soviet union. george, this has this has impacted the greater middle east. amazingly, because you had the, the, we have israel was within the context of a cold hor rivalry when that disappears. that's when it became actually far more dangerous, because israel, because of good sense of impunity, would be able to pursue its goals. go back to the westbank for example,

and now attacking causal repeatedly. if we'd been in a cold war environment, it's doubtful that would have happened george. so that's exactly right. and this is very interest. say, because if you go back to the cold war mentality, it was really henry kissinger who defined the issues in the middle east in terms of the cold war. somehow. israel is the look the west league. they've been living cyber lied, or you know, waging a soviet sponsor and the west and the world. and of course, it was nonsensical names, nonsensical at the time, and the science major mix of did not agree with that analysis of the middle east. so suddenly his secretary of state william rogers did not think of that view, but that was the case. and you again, he kind of voice that this idea onto the united states. that the reason why we're providing is row with this up on question. unremitting support is that a israel is fighting the cold war against soviet aggression. all now they love,

they get them because once a cold war ended, you had to invent new things. and so even as the islamic jihad and the global islamic revolution now it's about the work is a global work is um and israel is in the full front the sides or is, or at least people get into fights with national silver energy and your gains, globalism is always something new, the sides that be as well as in the leader of because it isn't. and then it's just a way of avoiding ever talking about what, who bostic real issues are in the middle east. and that's, and that's why on this it goes on is that, you know, everything venting these uh, new media. ology is why, why we have to above the support the israel unconditionally learn. wait, wait, we have the u. k. elections coming up very, very soon. how is this issue with the israel palestine in the i c j gotten playing out in that election if at all but it's going to have a huge impact on both of the huge blogs because um, it's a general purpose to jump. perception is the labor are going to get how much

because of the ridiculous, some sort of support of the genocide of, of a on israel side. but also i think that too, as well, we will these boo boo to be hit very hard only because the lack of decision, lack of strategy on all of other issues. by this time, at least this is just wanted some. what's gonna happen is the legal part is gonna be split right down the middle. but jeremy cool by now looking to be ready to perhaps try and try and make some sort of stand against overlay because we know the tory is going to be desecrated. you know, so i think the emergence now of some of the parties like george kind of ways, but others as well. you know, i think it's going to be a real issue. you know, we, we went, this has been so long. since you've had real foreign policy, that makes any sense well known, it's been so long since we've been able to distance ourselves from america. you

know that i think people are sick. i'm sick the death of really having foreign ministers and, and the british government who basically whatever the state department, you know, so i think israel and palestine will be an issue, a big issue. but i think you hit slave a honda doing well in the same questions and george with we have november elections coming up. what's the difference between trump invite and when it comes to this issue? i ask that because i know it's a short answer. not much, but if that's an interesting question, what we've seen in the last few weeks have been big donors, hedge fund managers, people who didn't like chrome now. so they moving towards the trunk because they think by the end is betraying israel by them is throwing israel under the bus and they think probably be a more reliable friend of israel. and that could be very interesting within the i think when it was when it the house. and i think what it tells us is this, this line is by the ologies, is corrupted western politics to the core. unfortunately, gentleman,

that's all the time we have one, i think my guess in america and in budapest and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are to see you next time. remember, across the rules the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the, well interestingly enough, that was one of the most valuable things that i wanted to do was question, shall we say these ukrainian prisoners? because i wanted to get inside their minds. i wanted to disentangle the strings that tied them up in knots that enabled and animated their actions. what was their decision making process? what were their biases, their prejudices? what was their psychological profile? i wanted to study them in very deep detailed ways. i am an american i see army officer and i've come to ukraine to try and understand and take the understanding back to americans about what has been happening here. so i'm very glad that you will sit down and talk with me,

and i'm very glad that you speak english because my russian is that good. i myself june to pull the regiment as though i live combo a girl and won't have girl on them or somebody to read over it. you want us of my name is can auntie my sony is called to look up. and my goal sign was that i had and what i found with the 1st prisoner who was a very bright historian, economic minded individual, was essentially no one in ukraine really wanted to fight. they were pushed into what they were and grabbed off the street. they were captured by zelinski, they were threatened and they were so he didn't want to die. so he followed orders, but he'll have to pay the price for, for crimes that may have been done in those orders. so he was, he was also a little light because he said he had been told that the zelinski government had