the, the, the dates. so why is bradley's and bringing this up now? well, at this meeting that just took place in brussels, breathing down the neck of europe's own. defense ministers was ukraine's defense chief roost. him are off and also nato secretary general and stilton bird who is musing over the weekend that you friends defense, ought to now mean off, pensive strikes on russia, back home, used about sending friends trips, ukraine and said just of the weekend that europe is multiplying. external and internal enemies, even german chancellor or schultz has said, look, we gave you create our weapons under the conditions that they don't use them to bomb russia and we're not willing to move those goals, hose and risk more problems. spain is also sad. now forget it. even those ones, the personally went there to push for it recently from spokesman dimitry pest golf qualified to use current vive as quote, war time, ecstasy, and hum, gary, and for a minister peter see how co said over the weekend that europe has fallen into war psychosis and that its foreign policy has become

a one trick pony beginning and ending with ukraine. like to go to the cam and the ukraine and casualty. so becoming more and more than bearable you korean man, i'm not being allowed to of the grain. and now they want to contribute to being used in as a war. and obviously, as the escalation hates, this neighborhood. first one can almost clearly hear the argument that the soldiers should be sent from the geographical proximity. first, all these means that they want to send central european youth, including hunger in youth, to do more with mandatory your being conscription. what seems to be happening here overall is that there are leaders at the very top of these institutions of global governance leg burrell at the you and stilton berg at nato, neither of whom are elected to any kind of popular democratic vote. giving a blessing for an escal atory joy ride of sorts and some u. p. and countries are following right along with it, while others are desperately right now trying to hit the brakes on the cloud car before it goes straight off

a cliff. co director of the international action center sir flanders says the us fear is the last of its dominance. but western countries are deeply divided over sending support team crane. so i think they're using what they call plausible denial. where they're saying one thing and doing another, they are providing ukraine with unlimited billions and billions of dollars worth of weapons. and at the very moment they're saying phone don't do this at the same time . they're saying, well, it's up to the ukraine, whether they do this or not. of course, they do the same thing in palestine and gaza. they provide unlimited arms weapons and encouragement to these realities. and at the same time, say that they are for some sort of other resolution. right now, us imperialism fears complete loss. well, there's deep divisions and they don't wherever there's pressure from the mass

movement to be self. so my cronan france, so they put up a trial balloon on sunday, nato, and sending french troops to ukraine. it was overwhelmingly, by mass sentiment pushed back. but it's nevertheless out there as a proposal. so you have political leaders that are acting exactly against their own population. and here in the u. s. over whelming, the majority of the population is against any more a to the same, let alone us military involvement, troops involvement. and yet, it continues say with our to international effects on cross talk, peter levelland, his guest discussed nato's unwillingness to accept defeats in the ukraine complex. i think the

hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all, all things are considered non peter lavelle. it is that common place to hear that ukraine is on its last legs. its collapse is only a matter of time. in many ways, this is true. however, this overlooks the fact that nato is unwilling to accept defeat in this conflict for this aggressive military alliance, more escalation is on the agenda, the cross hunting nato. i'm joined by my guess. angel juliano in hong kong is a political and financial analyst and assemble. we have conic. so real amar, he is a historian, political commentator, as well as associate professor at cox university. and in dallas we cross the david while ago. he is a jew, political analyst, author and veteran,

right job in cross type roles. and in fact, that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciated tati. let me go to you 1st and assemble. obviously, your call go following the events surrounding is that you create as closely as the rest of us here. but you know, you just can't help, but notice all the fishers going on. you have and out of capitals of nato, you know, you have a prime minister saying this, a president saying this, and then you have stilton burger, general, the secretary saying another thing, who's actually calling the shots on ukraine policy? because for all this vantage unity there seems to be an enormous amount of divisions going on. go ahead and assemble. i think you raised the extremely important issue, which is that it's entirely unclear who was ultimately calling the shots on ukraine policy. i would have said, usually in the end, it is the white house in the end of the c markets because the american sup actually told me that made it to. and one thing that i've seen is, is conflict that says the americans that have subjugated so your team partner,

so clients of vessels i would actually say as never before as a p. and so really subordinate that themselves. but but yes, my carrier, my cabinet is the vehicle also seen him other than i meant. i would argue that over the last 2 years, they have been sort of extremist sunday to hawks if you want. and the half thoughts will be moderate, so don't get me wrong then not to be a lot of routes in a pacifist, the rushman, but the less extreme than 6 treatments. so say for instance on one side you have kind of carlos from a stone you had on the other side. you have a little of shots from germany, right? extreme is moderate. and the big problem and natal is that the extremists don't always get what they want, at least not immediately. that's very important to note. but the extremist always set the terms of the debate and then never go away and then never take no for an answer. and the others, the moderates, insight, new to insight, to collect,

invest more broadly. never make these streams take, no, for an on. so this is the very dangerous dynamic that is happening in nature right now. we are looking at the reasons for that. i don't want to take up too much time, but if you're looking at this as a situation, visit extremes, actually you don't necessarily call all the shots, but they're constantly dominating the game. and this is 5 years of seeing this long term s collection, right? first of us, never f sixteens because that's what we'll see, you know, be at f 16. so just find the example right. so the, and let's say that the extreme but so i'm not going to drive us on files. i had what's going to be a bit and tell them about how much they spend, what makes it very interesting. i'll go to angelo on this one right now. i agree with everything you just said here, but it seems, you know, and we have these divisions going on and, and the question comes about who's calling the shots, and really, it's really not about ukraine, but it's really about the fate to nato and nato's mission. it will, it refuses to admit defeat,

it refuses to admit that this is ridiculous project from the get go. has very little to do with ukraine at this point. go ahead and hung. com. yes, absolutely. i think this could be a defining moment for natal east natal. these news is against russia. these 4 projects for the past. and it could be actually very damaging for you on the long run. uh, what uh, what is an interesting, what happened? what we saw through this, you paying conflict, this special to me to help ration, or just to realize how d u is just a bus. so empty t of the united states, and i think it's really important just to go back to history. people do need to understand the dispute project was on the 1st place to see how you project yours. we just to sure control you up jamaica united a market for you to us product and on the long run to the solve the story nation states. so the europe is actually expanding, though, is trying to expand, it's

a fading project. people are dissatisfied. uh, and i think what we saw with the brick street is just the beginning, more copies before. and we see that the visions know is the 3 countries. we have hungry, we have slow back yet, and we simply verse was based uprising. you had the some of the new device from. yeah, the uniquely actually decides the lovely evey directly spot the back. you said you either apologized. oh, you resign. and i think those are signs that are in europe, in the nato there at the visions. and i think we, we have some great thoughts that as she, it can be sustainable for europe and countries economically, but actual decisions. because people, if you were to do a surveys around you, up people up clearly uh, nothing to state about your cleaning was these no supports. people are interested in tangible face. what do i mean by tangible? how much do i put on the table?

can i put my kids to university? those are important things. these divided and controlled. the a project is not working anymore. people on the bed and the problem is here is they, they can use ukraine is a national security issue that europe is threatening. then you cut you, you dismiss of a civil liberties, you have a war economy. this serves a lot of different purposes except for helping ukraine. you know, david, one of the interesting, the top it in the last few days is that we had this early warning radar attacked inside of russia, which is extremely important for russians, nuclear deterrence. and the wes, i mean deterrence is something that's what works both ways that has nothing to do with what's going on the battlefield in ukraine. that's why i'm asking, who's calling the shots here? because that's a nato's interest. it doesn't change the facts on the ground in a new crane. david. well, it's because they always were like,

same daddy's who has lost the battle on the, on the field. the funny thing is because the fragmentation within nato became a very obvious it's it's, it's no cigarette, it's, it's, it's obvious to everybody. ukraine is done for that's why suddenly thank is the idea that now what labor is going to be doing to stay relevant. when in reality, now here's a relative clause, the best way on those is there is no use for nato anymore. we're now the problem is, in my opinion, is when you have voices like what just happened? yes, in paris when and that's how it's saying, well, what does that mean? we can let the restroom when, because that if they do, that means we're, we'd be next. this is another by far i propose no more, no less because they wanted to keep the ball rolling within the reality. nato's done for, in russia as to think strategically on the architect and strategically by now,

go in the, into the sort of the preparation. if i may use the term or even a drill for the tactical notes, because the conversation though is moving into are we gonna be, are we meaning nato in this case? are we going to be place in the news on the polish soil? yeah, no, i don't believe the rush hour window already. something now you're in anticipating one of my questions and i'll ask it now. topic is, is article 5 going to be tested before this complex is over? because i said that from the get go in the beginning of this complex, eventually we're going to get there. go ahead topic. what is it the test? is it right? then we have the 2 outcomes. one is it phase, and then they to is discredited. and this office question, feel it, it's completely useless. it's useless anyhow. it's supposed to be useless, but it uses lose a sense of sensations because on the actual, right, or it's not tested feel or very lucky. so here's why i think there's

a possibility that it won't be tested in the end, and it has nothing to do with the west. and it has to do with russian behavior. because what we have seen during this construct on the russian side is a very high degree of restraint. so on one side, russia is not bluffing. absolutely not how to be noticed because that's how we got into this escalated conflict. because at the end of 2021, they told us not to talk to you about settling this or something that's going to happen. visa, no, and something did happen. that's where we are. no rush that's not bluffing. but on the other hand, we also have seen a very consistent problem of russia not taking bates right. so for instance, this attack on the radio station on maybe it was to attacks on some of the beta stations icing. this is the ukranian, ostentatiously demonstrative, launching a type of attack that speaks directly to one of the points of the 2020 degree. but it's about some precedent on van nuclear weapons could be used. yeah. but,

but it wasn't heading to, i'm sorry, teddy, but that would been an american decision. not a decision made in cube. right. the icing bowls as possible. i. it's something that they're doing together this the american citizen entirely possible. i agree with you, or it is already work the dog and the very extreme for right, because ukraine also has shown a pattern of trying to drive its allies or sponsors deeper into the club. the reason why i say that teddy gave me, oh, ask a angelo this here. i mean, interestingly enough, a person that we hope had been long gone was victoria knew, and suddenly sconces arctic going back into the media. talking exactly about deep strikes and russia at the same time. and this early warning radar was hit a coincidence or, or what, angelo. and it's hard to say we, we, we making some speculation here. i try, i tried just to just start to look at the actions. there's lots of words,

and i think of what they're doing. i have impression, especially when you look at my quote, i gave you an example of my coal, say the i want to send 16000 soldiers. what guess what? yes. problems sending a soul just do you kind of don't know because yes, you're lympics the or re enrolled in the top does and you know who is helping in your asking all the countries to send police man to help phrase fast doesn't has the capacity. in addition to that, we all know that need to those in the have, i mean, nation sufficient munition, because the metering does for complex ease coffee based just not purpose based. those guys, right, did the matrix that's a corpus has been a money laundering machine, not for making weapons for the 1st. he wasn't for making money for the me during the so complex. and for all these cover, jumped up in, in, in the, you know, it's really interesting when, you know, when we talk about what's going on with neo liberalism, their financial ice,

everything including security gentlemen. and that's why they're in the position that are in right now. and it's something that they're going to have to pay for again, asking the question why there has to be escalation. before we answer that question, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with our team the the

welcome back across the dock were all things we considered on peter lavelle to remind you were discussing ukraine. the ok, it's go back to david in, in dallas, in the publication responsible state craft. uh, occasionally it has something worth reading and it did have this was their main article or as we speak right now, posted may be at the door. why is biting, ignoring the bell, which of course is being making a reference to a writer story. a couple of new cycles ago where the, the kremlin officials have made it clear that the russian side is interested in talks negotiations. no details given of course, but the door is cracked open as it were. if we can keep using that matter for the west has no interest in negotiations. why david?

it's the, the simple answer is that it will a minute. it will mean that the west has to admit it's the seats and they are not willing to upset. that's reality. because what this, what this conflict shows, it showed really the disparity when the strength of the rushing military and that of the west. how the western institutions, militarily speaking, as a former military myself, i can tell you, the west has no strength whatsoever to face the rush. little long if we only read in history to understand the history over of the soviet union, the russia, empire, whatever you want to follow, how we went through and it was never defeated. i mean, most of us in the west here have no idea the world war 2 was one because of the soviet union, not the americans, but, but yes, i'm sorry david. yes to on monday of this week we have the president of the united states memorial day in the united states saying that they the united states one

world war 2. again. oh, all right. yeah. i agree with the design in relation to the front. yeah, americans are no good when i'm there is birth control it say 56 years ago when i went down faster than that, we didn't even understand hope of doing now with the issue only in any way. it shows now the hardware, for example, the military hardware into west is in just barebones of what the russians have built. why? because the russians have developed and spend a lot of yours in training, finish cohesiveness. there is more around the which are also david, one of the things they didn't go down the neo liberal path. they didn't, they were they, they have an integrated military, they make all of their stuff, all of their stuff. okay. look what's going on, let me go to the topic here. look what's going on. and ukraine. we get some of that . a little bit of french dressing here. we get a little ducks dressing there and you put it all together and you think it's good

to work. i mean these people are out of their minds. okay. and in hundreds of thousands of people are losing their lives because this thing just wasn't thought out. all they thought with the sanctions will crush the economy. they'll be a revolution here, and we'll have a colored revolution that's the depth of their thinking to go ahead in this symbol . yes, i think i have so right. but one thing we have seen in this less them fiasco, and that's what it is over the last 2 years, is that these guys never consider a plan b because they never think they need a plan b. and the reason why they think they need know, can be a set that consistently of a consistent, the under estimate the advisory. but as long as there's less mistakes, you can obviously making geo politics and war and the thinking about the rest. uh, but it came up with honest want to can do what it kind of stands for the vision and the stand and so on and so on. seems to be based on the most exotic, stupid types they, they simply act out of lease for thinking of the problem is that never want to

abandon it by now it's been a paragraph tested as you pointed out, sanctions are not at all worked. i prefer to call it on my welfare, it's the most to be economic, both applied since the end of the cold war. and it is a complete failure. in fact, the russian economy, and specifically, the russian boy economy has gotten strong. does the data isn't. and the rest has actually gotten beacon in several ways. they don't want to accept as they don't want to accept the failure. also, we volunteered ukrainian condo fences with all these best america weapons that also they just don't computed. now where is this going to lead this inability to learn and i think you all up. so you right. the problem here is the west is not yet ready to concede that it has lost. it caught the band of cowboy in 2021 because that funds are best and prospective as a risk, as most for the afghans was a mind 90 feet and the could basically hide it away. then no, they cannot do this once. that being defeated open would be by russia. this is

already happening. but this, steven austin moment of truth the moment funded would have to admit that. well, this isn't that i, but i think that we can have, i absolutely agree with you, but i think there's a coffee out here. i'll go to angel about this. and, and it was just mentioned, afghanistan was disciplined. well, that was a 20 year gripped, and a lot of people in a lot of money off that thing. that's why they wanted to keep it going. okay. it wasn't a weight, it wasn't the low as it was to make a lot of task. okay. the same thing is happening with ukraine right now. i mean, you know, everybody who talks about a november elections and all that, these people are saying how much longer can we keep this group going? that's, i'm sorry. everything was said here is true, but we don't forget that. i mean, this is a, a cash cow angelo. what i think it's so it's important to keep in mind that the system of funding and you know, having a, a deep pocket defective fund, one to them dollars a year. what's possible, as long as there was, there's

a us done that had gemini, know the problems that we are looking clearly there's a detail, reputation happening around the world. many copies are actually bypassing the dollar. they're trading their own currencies and the is. so gradually we will see these trend, and this will not allow the us to spend as much money. so i think so it's a, we need to because, or for the aspect have a big picture and looking at what is happening in terms of financing terms of exchanges in terms of actually p, but the, the, the, the center of gravity of the what the economy and the world power is shifting towards the east. a new where these happening. what we look at the collective west is, are they the is what is it like 1520 percent of the of the, of the world is nothing. there's a whole world which is waking up out there, 80 percent of the world population. they've been the color nice down. i look at the revised very important. yeah. a lot of people the confused or confuse they think that the multiple, what would be the, the rest of the what,

what the multiple one wants to do is to go to the us and the collective west, the worst to collect the west. it becomes adults more rational, less emotional. there's a big door open because it's not about either you do uh, with us or against us. it's about how we can work together. and i think if we, on the key, we might go into a transition where we have maybe a, some kind of bailouts, a big out of the wisdom economy is trying to find the compromises. but we don't go to war now and how i, i'm sorry i am i the, i don't, i don't see it happening either. i hang on just because heads, you must never give up. hedge funds never go to the go ahead and jump in. go ahead . i have one point about your argument about good with this, i think to spot on. so the interest in enrichment to your right mean intend us to complex us going fet onto ukraine. but there's one cabinet to your copier,

which is these guys know how to get rich this out any given more. so like you could imagine the future, let me put the lights as my trump becomes president, he actually stops as more. but this did run in massive profits ends. i'm going to turn to us through complexes and labeled under which simple tools that is no be it has to be ready for wind rush. i was going to attack us in 4 to 8 years. and when you look at best and rhetoric now in germany and other parts of fuel, this is actually what they're saying. they're not just talking about the covering for the already prepping the probably to think of russia is long term thing that against which the need a lot to be able to write. it has realized that if you look what's going on in their defense capacities and what they're doing now, when cleaning up the defense ministry, they know this is long term. so talking to you, you're telling me that every time there's an election in in america, we did john mccain. huh. a lot. i wouldn't have good luck but, but yes,

it's fine. i mean, what, i, what actually actually if i'm a, if i'm, if they're jumping down there they, there's some truth to that figuratively speaking. this is not washington operating, but do you think in terms of now this is why you are noticing the state department? no, it is announcing when, when can i use your aid through your brain and about your grant is about the upcoming elections? what's most americans do not understand? is that this uh sort of the, maybe to the complex has to be set up since the 1950s. being obsessive has always been to be involved in a conflict not joined or because we need, but to drag the conflict for as long as possible to make money. that's what was at the heart of it. now the sensors that the less you post on the russia backfire completely unexposed as, as little mention owns, the financial aspect was marked by warrant on this web the, the upcoming bridge summit in touch on going to be in october of this year. my work

is going to be a major announcements on the financial front. okay. which basic. okay, yeah. you're talking about a common currency. yes. that's the big buzz right now. i got my fingers crossed to, we're rapidly running our time. i. um, angelo, they're the estonian president. uh, a lot a congress. he said we will do everything possible to bring russia and put into their knees. and i read that and i reminded me of the film, the mouse that roared. and so the stony and president sound like he's the, he's from the duchy of grand fenwick. okay. i mean, here's a little a sonya telling the whole world about the power and, and resolve of the west. it seems almost comical. reading a, particularly from a tiny country like that. go ahead angela. well, peter, do you know how we cold then domestic states, all cold? did she what was states? why? because with this, they kind of maybe they don't have much power. but the,

when they bought the make a huge noise and that's the bug states. they are absolutely ready. but the interesting part is that there's a high selected up. so if you look at the big stays on, the might the tiny and they should be depending on the neighbors. russia, what did they do? the isolated themself from russia and they're still from china because they managed to make me out of china because they started with k one. that's just up. so i, i think it again, those elected leaders that was actually pre selected by be in the back in the, in the, what they called them for him by the way of the not working for the country. dealt one king against their own interest. it is time to jump and copy stuff. well, those lead the stuff working for their own brain tree, but add to add to those leaders that this is what i, you know, with this the scholarship talks about the lead capture, you know, and a lead, a bare buck she works for washington. she doesn't work for the german people. she's even said that we have an entire european class that has been subjugated by

washington. and they don't give a hoot about their own people. and that is, gives me reason to be optimistic because eventually people will get fed up about it . you know, losing an afghanistan didn't change the price of eggs in europe in america, losing in ukraine. will the right gentleman, that's just a desk. i, well, i'm a big, long winded here to make as all the time we have gentlemen, when i think my guess in hong kong is double and in dallas. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are to see you next time and remember prospect the, the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the executive because they have maybe the idea of the current mazda is, of ukraine to a located overseas, is to place the burden of making on popular decisions on the current executive branch. as the current in our snatched off the street for the front line, the russian president call the kids strict at mobile ization loss. sane and western backers have a convenient scapegoat. millions of south africans go to the poles and the country is general election labeled as the most of the vote since the end of apartheid. submit a type bible between the ruling party and the opposition 21. people are killed