ross, and also nato secretary general and stilton birds who is musing over the weekend that you friends defense, ought to now mean all sensitive strikes on russia. back home, used about sending friends trips to ukraine and said, just over the weekend that europe is multiplying, external and internal enemies, even german shotzel. i've schultz has said, look, we gave you create our weapons under the conditions that they don't use them to bomb russia. and we're not willing to move those goals, hose and risk more problems. spain is also sad now forget it. even those ones, the personally went there to push for it recently from spokesman. dimitri pest golf qualified to use current vive as quote, war time, ecstasy, and hum, gary, and for a minister peter see how co said over the weekend that europe has fallen into war psychosis and that its foreign policy has become a one trick pony beginning and ending with ukraine, black to which we don't look at them and the ukraine and casualties and becoming more than more than bearable you korean man, i'm not being allowed thought of ukraine. and now they ones that contribute to

being used in as a war. and obviously, as the escalation hates, this neighborhood, the 1st one can almost clearly hear the argument that the soldiers should be sent from the geographical proximity. first, all these means that they want this in central european youth, including him getting used to the war with mandatory your being conscription and what seems to be happening here overall is that there are leaders at the very top of these institutions of global governance, light burrell, at the you and stilton berg at nato, neither of whom are elected through any kind of popular democratic vote. giving a blessing for an escal atory joy, right of sorts, and some u. p. and countries are following right along with it, while others are desperately right now trying to hit the brakes on the clown car before it goes straight off of class a. all right, well that is going to do it for me for now, but do stay with our to international. my colleague, nicky aaron will be in next in less than 30 minutes. that was more of a sudden it started by the

the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . it is the common place to hear that ukraine is on its last legs. its collapse is only a matter of time. in many ways this is true. however, this overlooks the fact that nato is unwilling to accept defeat in this conflict for this aggressive military alliance. more escalation is on the agenda, the cross hunting nato. i'm joined by my guess. angel juliano in hong kong is a political and financial analyst and assemble. we have conic. so real amar, he is

a historian, political commentator, as well as associated professor at cox university. and in dallas we cross the david while ago. he is a jew, political analyst, author, and veteran, right job in cross type roles and effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate a topic. let me go to you 1st and assemble. obviously your call go following the events surrounding is that you create as closely as the rest of us here. but you know, you just can't help, but notice all the fishers going on. you have and out of capitals of nato, you know, you have a prime minister saying this, a president saying this, and then you have stilton burge, the general, the secretary saying another thing. who was actually calling the shots on ukraine policy. because for all this vantage unity there seems to be an enormous amount of divisions going on. go ahead and assemble. and i think it has raised of an extremely important issue which is that it's entirely unclear who was ultimately calling the shots on ukraine policy. i would have said, usually in the end it is the white house in the end of this americans,

because the american sup actually told me that mental. and one thing that i've seen in this conflict is that the americans that have subjugated so your team partner. so clients of us so, so i would actually say as never before as a p, and so really subordinate that themselves. but, but here's my tab here. my cabinet is the beautiful also seen another thing i meant . i would argue that over the last 2 years, that has been sort of extremes sunday to hawks if you want. and the half looks to be moderate, so don't get me from pen not to be up on the route, so not pass it 1st, the russian. but the less extremes and extremist, so sing, for instance on one side you have kaya carlos from a stone you had on the other side, you have a little of salts from germany, right? extreme is moderate. and the big problem in natal is that the extremists don't always get what they want, at least not immediately. that's very important to note. but the extremist always

start the term substitute bait and then never go away and then never take no one answer and the others the moderates, insight new to insight, to collect the best more broadly. never make the stream is take no for an on. so this is the very dangerous dynamic that is happening in nature right now. we are looking at the reasons for that. i don't want to take up too much time. but if you're looking at this as a situation, visit extremis, x, you don't necessary call all the shots, but they're constantly dominating the game. and this is 5 years of seeing this long term escalation, right? first of all, it's never f sixteens because that's what we'll see, you know, be at f 16. so just find the example right. so the, and let's say that the extreme was, i'm not going to dr. of all the files that had what's glo, see of it and tell them a bank originally, but what makes it very interesting. i'll go to angela on this one right now. i, i agree with everything you just said here, but it seems, you know, and we have these divisions going on and, and the question comes about who's calling the shots. i feel like it's really not

about ukraine, but it's really about the fate to nato and nato. is mission, it will, it refuses to admit defeat. it refuses to admit that this is ridiculous project from the get go. has very little to do with ukraine at this point. go ahead and hung count. yes, absolutely. i think this could be a defining moment for natal east need to use news as gains to russia. these 4 projects falls apart and it could be actually very damaging for you on the long run . but what uh, what is an interesting, what happened? what be sold to this you paying conflict? this especially me to help ration or just to realize how d u is just a bus. so entity of the united states and i think it's really important just to go back to history. people do need to understand the dispute project was on the 1st place to see how you project yours. a way, just to show a, control you up to make

a united the market for you to us product and on the long run to the solve the story nation states. so the europe is actually expanding, though, is trying to expand. it's a fading project. people are dissatisfied. uh and i think what we saw with the brick street is just the beginning, more copies before. and we see that the visions know is the 3 countries we have on believe we have slow back yet. and we simply verse was very surprising. you had the some of the new device from yeah, the uniquely actually decides the lovely evey directly spoke to back. you said you either apologized. oh, you resign. and i think those are science that's in europe, in the nato. there at the visions. and i think we, we have some great thoughts that as she, it can be sustainable for you up and countries economically, but also decisions. because people, if you were to do a surveys around you, up people up clearly uh,

nothing to state about this. your cleaning was these no supports people are interested in tangible face. yeah. what do you mean by tangible? how much do i put on the table? can i put my kids to university, those and both and things. these divided in control. the a project is not working anymore. people are yeah, maybe the problem is here is they, they can use ukraine is a national security issue that europe is threatened, then you could, you, you dismiss, so a civil liberties. you have a war economy. this serves a lot of different purposes except for helping ukraine. you don't, david. one of the interesting, the top it in the last few days is that we had this early warning radar attacked inside of russia, which is extremely important for a rush is nuclear deterrence. and the west, i mean deterrence is something that's what works both ways that has nothing to do with what's going on the battlefield in ukraine. that's why i'm asking,

who's calling the shots here? because that's a nato's interest. it doesn't change the facts on the ground and in ukraine. david, well, it's because, uh, they always were like, same daddy's who has lost the dial on, on, on an individual. the funny thing is because the fragmentation within nato became a very obvious it's, it's, it's slow cigarettes. it's, it's, it's obvious to everybody. ukraine is done for that's why suddenly thing is the idea that now what labor is going to be doing, just stay relevant. when in reality no isn't really the best. we all know this, there is no use for nato anymore. we're now the problem is, in my opinion, is when you will have voice is like what just happened? yes. in paris when and that's how it's saying, well wait a minute, we can let the restroom when, because that if they do, that means we will be next. this is not there by hyper voting no more,

no less because they wanted to keep the ball rolling within the reality. nato's done for and rushed up us to think strategically on the architect and strategically by now, go in the into the sort of the preparation. if i may use the term or even a drill for the tactical notes, because the conversation though is moving into, are we gonna be, are we meaning nato in this case? are we going to be place in the news on the polish soil? yeah, and i, i don't believe a rush hour window or a something. now you're in anticipating one of my questions and i'll ask it now. topic is, is article 5 going to be tested before this complex is over, because i said that from the get go in the beginning of this complex. eventually we're going to get there, go ahead tati. or, what is its test? right? then we have the 2 outcomes. one is it phase, and then they to is discredited. emphasizes credibility, it's completely useless. it's useless. and you know, as far as that goes less,

but it uses lose a sense of sensations because on the actual, right, or it's not tested feel or very lucky. and here's why i think there's a possibility that it won't be tested in the end, and it has nothing to do with the west. and it has to do with russian behavior. because what we have seen during this construct on the russian side is a very high degree of restraint. so on one side, russia is not bluffing. absolutely not how to be noticed because that's how we got into this escalate to the conflict. because at the end of 2021, they told us ness has talked to you about settling this or something is going to happen. visa? no, and something did happen. that's where we are no rush. i was not laughing. but on the other hand, to be also, i've seen a very consistent problem of russia not taking bates right. so for instance, this attack on the rate of states. no, maybe it was to attacks on similar beta stations icing. this is the ukranian, ostentatiously demonstrative, launching

a type of attack that speaks directly to one of the points of the 2020 degree by the voucher. the president on van nuclear weapons could be used. yeah. but it might be cutting to, i'm sorry, teddy, but that would been an american decision. not a decision made in cube. right. the icing bowls as possible. i. it's something that they're doing together this the american citizen entirely possible agreement few or it is already worked. the dog in a very extreme form, right? because ukraine also has shown a pattern of trying to drive its allies or sponsors deeper into the club. the reason why i say that is how do you hear me? oh, as a angelo this here. i mean, interestingly enough, a person that we hope had been long gone was victoria knew and suddenly starting started going back into the media, talking exactly about a deep strikes into russia. at the same time, in this early warning radar was hit a coincidence or, or what, angelo. and it's hard to say we, we,

we making some speculation here. i try, i tried just to just start to look at the actions. there's lots of words, and i think of what they're doing. i have impression, especially when you look at my call. i gave you an example of my cold, say the, i want to send the dogs and soldiers. what guess what? yes, problems sending a soul just do you kind of don't know because you guys don't lympics the or the fix roll top desk and you know who was helping in your asking all the countries to send police man to help phrase fast doesn't have the capacity in addition to that, we all know that need to those in the have, i mean, nation sufficient. i mean issue because the metering does for complex ease, coffee base is not purpose based. those guys did the matrix that's a corpus has been a money laundering machine. not for making weapons for defense. he wasn't for making money for the meat during the conference. and for all this cover jumped up

in, in, in the, you know, it's really interesting when you know, when we talk about what's going on with neo liberalism, their financial ice, everything including security gentlemen. and that's why they were in the position that are in right now. and it's something that they're going to have to pay for again, asking the question why there has to be escalation. before we answer that question, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with our team the, the russian states. never as tired as i'm one of the most sense community best. in

most, all sun set up the same assistance to progress be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on russia to day and split the r t. suppose next, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the streaming services for the question, did you say a request, which is the welcome next across stock? were all things are considered computer lavelle to remind you were discussing ukraine?

the ok, it's go back to david in, in dallas, in the publication responsible state craft. uh, occasionally it has something worth reading and it did have, this was their main article or as we speak right now, posted may be at the door. why is bite and ignoring the bell, which of course is being making a reference to a writer story, a couple of new cycles ago where the, the kremlin officials have made it clear that the russian side is interested in talks negotiations. no details given of course, but the door is cracked open as it were. if we can keep using that matter for the west has no interest in negotiations. why, david? it's the, the simple answer, peter is that if will many, it will mean that the west has to admit is the beats. and they are not willing to upset. that's reality. because what this, what this conflict shows,

it showed really the disparity between the strength or the rushing military and that of the west. how the western institutions, militarily speaking, as a former military myself, i can tell you, the west has no strength whatsoever to face the rush. long if we only read in history to understand the history over of the soviet union of the russia and kind of whatever you want to follow and how we went through and it was never defeated. i mean, most of us in the west here have no idea the world war 2 was one because of the soviet union, not the america but, but it's, i'm sorry, david. yes to on monday of this week we have the president of the united states memorial day in the united states saying that the united states, one world war 2. again. oh, all right, yeah, i agree with you i, this is a, what does it say? a revision that we have 3 in the front. yeah, americans are no good, weird there. but let's say bob, 6 years ago,

we're going down faster than that. we've been able to understand hope of doing now with the usually in any way. it shows now the hardware, for example, the military hardware into west is in comparable to what the russians have built. why? because the russians have developed and spend a lot of yours in training, finish cohesiveness. there is more around the which are also david, one of the things they didn't go down the neo liberal path. they didn't, they were they, they have an integrated military, they make all of their stuff, all of their stuff. okay. look whats going on, let me go to topic here. look what's going on. and ukraine. we get some of that. a little bit of french dressing here. we get a little dutch dressing there and you put it all together and you think it's good to work. i mean, these people are out of their minds. ok, in hundreds of thousands of people are losing their lives because this thing just wasn't thought out. all they thought with the sanctions will crush the economy.

they'll be a revolution here, and we'll have a colored revolution that's the depth of their thinking to go ahead and assemble. yes, i think i've said right, but one thing we have seen is, is less than fiasco, and that's what it is over the last 2 years. is that these guys never consider a plan b because they never think they need a plan but, and the reason why they think they need know, can be a set that consistently about consistent the under estimate the advisory. but as of almost with less mistakes, you can obviously american geo politics center and bore and the thinking about dresser. but it came up with honest want to can do what it kind of stand for the vision tend to stand and so on and so on. seems to be based on the most of all the exterior types. they simply act all of these for thinking of the problem is that never want to abandon it by now it's been a paragraph tested as you pointed out, sanctions of not at all. i've worked. i prefer to call it a good on my welfare. it's the most to be economic, both applied since the end of the cold war. and it is a complete failure. in fact,

the russian economy, and specifically the russian boy economy has gotten strong goes the data is in, and the rest has actually gotten beacon in several ways. they don't want to accept as they don't want to accept the failure. also we volunteered ukrainian condo fences with all these best america weapons that also they just don't computed. now where is this going to lead this inability to learn? and i think you all up so that you write the problem here is the west is not yet ready to concede that it has lost. it caught the band of color into 1021 because that funds of rest and perspective as a risk, as most for the afghans was a mine how to feed and the could basically hide it away. then no, they cannot do this once. that being defeated open the by russia. this is already happening. but stephen austin moment of truth the moment, but it would have to admit that slow cutting this isn't that i but i think that we can have i absolutely agree with you, but i think there's a coffee out here. i'll go to angel about this and, and it was just mentioned,

afghanistan was disciplined. well, that was a 20 year gripped, and a lot of people mean a lot of money off that thing. that's why they wanted to keep it going. okay. it wasn't too when it wasn't the lose, it was to make a lot of tash ok. the same thing is happening with ukraine right now. i mean, you know, everybody who talks about on november elections and all that, these people are saying how much longer can we keep this group going? that's, i'm sorry, everything was said here is true, but we don't forget that. i mean, this is a, a cash cow angelo. what i think it's so it's important to keep in mind that the system of, of funding and you know, having a, a deep pocket to fact to fund $1.00 to $10.00 a year. what's possible, as long as there was, there's a us dollar had gemini. now the problem is that we are looking clearly there's a detail, reputation happening around the world. many copies are actually bypassing the dollar that creating their own currencies. and uh, as. ready so luckily we received this trend and this will not allow the us to spend

as much money. so i think so it's a, we need your lucas or for the aspect, have a big picture and looking at what is happening in terms of financing terms of exchanges in terms of actually p, but the, the, the center of gravity of the what the economy and the world power is shifting towards the east. a new where these happening. what we look at the collective west is, are they the is what is it like 1550 percent of the of the, of the world is nothing. there's a whole world which is waking up out there, 80 percent of the world population. they've been caught a nice deal and i look the revised. very important. yeah. a lot of people get confused or confused. they think that the multiple, what would be the, the rest of the, what, what the market point of what was to do is to go to the us and the collective west . it was to collect the west, becomes adults more rational, less emotional. there's a big door open because it's not about either you do uh,

with us or against us. it's about how we can work together. and i think if we, on the key, we might go into a transition where we have maybe a, those are some kind of bailouts. a big all of the wisdom economy is trying to find some compromises. but we don't go to war now and how i, i'm sorry i am i the, i don't, i don't see it happening either. i hang on just because heads, you must never give up. hedge funds never to go ahead and jump in. go ahead. i have one point about 2 argument about good, this is i think to spot on. so the interest in enrichment to your writing and then 10, dr. complexes going fet onto ukraine. but there's one cabinet to your copier, which is these guys know how to get rich this out any given more. so like you can imagine the future that because he likes this by trump becomes president. he actually stops as more. but this is running mess of prophets ends. i'm going to

turn to us or complexes and labeled under which they will to, yvette is no be it has to be ready for wind rush. i was going to attack us in 4 to 8 years. and when you look at best and rhetoric now in germany and other parts of you, this is actually what they're saying. they're not just talking about the covering for their already prepping the probably to think of russia is long term thing that against which to me is need a lot to be able to rush over his realize that if you look what's going on in their defense capacities, and what they're doing now, when cleaning up the defense ministry, they know this is long term. so it sounds like you, you're telling me that every time there's an election in, in america, we did john mccain. huh. and i was like that, but yes, it's fine. i mean, what actually actually if i know if i'm in there, jump in there, i don't think there's some truth to that figuratively speaking. this is not washington operating, but do you think in terms of now this is why you are noticing the state department

now is announcing when, when can i use your a to your bring in about to grant? this is about the upcoming elections. what's, what's the americans do not understand? he's the best uh, sort of the maybe to the complex has to be set up since the 1950s. vamp septic has always been to be involved in a conflict, not to win or because we need to drag the conflict for as long as possible to make money. that's what was at the heart of it. now these sensors that the less you post on the russia backfire completely unexposed as, as a little motion on the financial aspect. because mark by or don't this, when the, the upcoming brick stomach into us on going to be in october of this year. my, my work is going to be a major announcement on the financial front. okay. which basic. okay, yeah, you're talking about a common currency. yes. that's the big buzz right now. i've got my fingers crossed to, we're rapidly running our time. i. um, angelo,

they're the estonian president. uh, a lot of congress. he said we will do everything possible to bring russia and put into their knees. and i read that and i reminded me of the film, the mouse that roared. and so the stony and president sound like he's the he's from the duchy of grand fenwick. ok, i mean here's a little a sonya telling the whole world about the power and, and resolve of the west. it seems almost comical. reading a particularly from a tiny country like that. go ahead, angela. well, peter, do you know how we cold then domestic states or cold, that she was states? why? because with the same time you just don't have much power. but the, when they bought the make a huge noise and that's the bug states. they are absolutely ready. but the interesting part is that there's a high selected up. so if you look at the, the big stays on the map, the tiny, and they should be depending on the neighbors. russia, what did they do?

they isolated themselves from russia and they're still from china because they managed to make an enemy of china because they started with k one. that's just up. so i, i think it again, those elected leaders that was actually pre selected by being the back and the end the wasn't going on for him by the way. the not working for the country dealt working against their own interest. it is time to jump and copy stuff. well, those lead the stuff working for their own interest, but add to add to those readers. this is what i, you know, with this the scholarship talks about the lead capture, you know, and to lead a bare buck. she works for washington. she doesn't work for the german people. she's even said that we have an entire european class that has been subjugated by washington, and they don't give a hoot about their own people. and that is, gives me reason to be optimistic because eventually people will get fed up about it . you know, losing an afghanistan didn't change the price of eggs in europe in america,

losing in ukraine will. all right, general exception. i guess i will. i'm a big, long winded here to make as all the time we have them. and i want to thank my guests in hong kong is double and in dallas. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are to see you next time. and remember across on the the mortgage which is supposed to why not experience as the, the, because the new ones are out there. so some of this, so basically of course we need, the last name was needed, read it was can when we used

to live imagine we have more than one by us or someone was this, we weren't sure. i knew people to the, the, the car acceptance and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. search like why watch something that's so different. i listed of opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome, but please do have the state department to see i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want my shell stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, it's not,

we don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you the so called events that we can see no stain from the desire of the us being at the head of the collective west to not lose the gemini on the international marine, the russian foreign minister view as attempts to keep the great phone world as fast as more western countries, easily sick to open the door for ukraine to use allies is loan grange weapons to strive to russia on the, on the shopping much before 21 people are killed in an alleged id of strength on the refugee camp, near rough timeframe, the palestinian demonstrations of what the owners of the world.