that's a must be saved from the sea, and this is why it's, but it's also say that that africans, foreign policy will be more, will be one rather of the pocketing points as the see engage as various potential coordination part is outside of the da as well but in terms of reactions, many are against this partnership. some those have come out appraising it. listen to this today much the beginning of an u. e. right? with a, put our differences aside. and united for the benjamins of all south africans, were main humble and continued to sit in the 7th administration selflessly. and despite those sentiments, the political parties which we according to now, they've announced themselves as the progress of cool cause. and they said there was no government of national unity in the country to begin with because the n c had already had the parties in place and the mind some in the cool cuz infected was the

if, if that says it will form part of the savings administration, but not the one, including the race listed in paperless parts. he's referring to the d. a know that a government of national unity should include many political parties, but in this case it seems like it's v d a and in c. and that's why these other political parties is even said they are not the bridesmaids in the a, c, n, d, a reading. well, definitely looks a big change from the horizon for the south african government, as always helping us to understand what's going on. that was all she correspond to known as a good. thank you very much. i well that is uh a rock this. i'll hold that up to the top until then it's cost will enjoy the the,

[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock. we're all things are considered. i'm peter le, about us secretary of state anthony blinking is an odd character. he says he longs for peace and justice for the people of gaza. but all the while he acts as israel's lawyer on the international stage. such a lawyer is merely an undertaker of the rules based order, the cross hockey in palestine. i'm joined by my guess, lionel and new york. he is a legal and media analyst in tampa. we have larry johnson, he is a managing partner for burg associates, a former c i, a analyst,

and us state department counterterrorism official and in oklahoma city request of joshua atlantis. he is the federal mackey chair and director of middle east studies at the university of oklahoma. or a gentleman, comstock rules and effects, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate joshua, if i go to you 1st, what do you make of the us secretary of state? we had the us president at the end of last month. suddenly bizarrely announcing a potential ceasefire agreement that was came from israel came from the is released, but he is introducing it. and then we had the secretary of state and go on his 8th trip to the middle east. i don't know why you have to keep going. if you're not getting any success, why don't you keep going back? and, and he, i watched him during his press conferences. he seems to have him in his mind some kind of pre a piece process. but nobody else can understand. i mean, what do you make of this as well? uh,

i think it's really you have to understand american politics and bite and jumped in to this. um this freight and the gaza, almost immediately on the side of israel saying that there's, there's no life between israel in america. and i'm going to back israel completely, instead of withholding american approval and trying to get a gauge on the conflict and bring both sides into negotiations. america has really, has really per site and it's um, it's mediating position. and now biden is in real trouble. i think he thought this would be a short affair that he could jump in on the side of israel. reap the rewards of that which are, which are very important in the united states. because we have to remember that most americans do sympathize with israel and certainly on, on the money side of things, which i think are extremely important here. pro is rarely, americans have tremendous, hasn't had much more money. and then then the air of americans,

and that even though you might lose some air boats or air of american votes, you, the money will make up for the difference. and that's been by the strategy since he began campaigning in delaware many years ago. he's a died and what was honest, and i think that was the calculation he made and it was a good calculation. the trouble is that nothing yahoo has dragged us. we're on and set goals that are impossible to achieve. and by just trapped, he's trapped supporting somebody that he feels increasingly more uncomfortable supporting. but his entire machine is designed to. he cannot abandon israel, and the republicans are taking us to the bank. they are there. they are according jewish votes, jewish money, and they are laughing at the democrats who are beginning to cave in front of this, this war that is so bloody and as turning international opinion against america. and ruining is you say, the rules based order that america for you to get very,

we're going to dive in on that one in the 2nd part of the program with larry. so he the draft. yeah, well, it's a, it's a trap. obviously, larry, i mean again what we're seeing if we look at what's been called the peace process in the middle east, which i think all of us would agree. it's been a sham from the get go. but the united states now is ever taking to for itself being the sole arbitrary, decide or of what this policy should be. it hasn't worked for 30 plus years. why do they think is going to work now? and on top of it, larry, with all of these meetings, they blinked. it has been going to 8 times. now, what are you bet? my friend always talking about is normalizing relations between saudi arabian israel has nothing to do with god. so go ahead, larry, a hey of blankets trying to lead a parade with the problem is there's no marching band behind him. so what, what it was transpired over the course of this uh,

this war is that the started on october 7th. and the, this coupled with what's going on in ukraine has led to the increased isolation of the united states. and look, us us play book has become, it's got 3, it's well, you know, 3 things. either you do what we tell you to do, or we're going to impose economic sanctions, or we're going to go to war with you, or we're going to run a cover colored revolution against you as well. those 3, the diplomacy is going out the door, you know, blinking is proved to be in my memory. and so, you know, i'm, i'm old enough that i go back about 70 years, all the singularly most incompetent secretary of state we've ever had. because part part of being, you know, this leading diplomat is to have some credibility of the world compare and contrast blake and with love for all laughed ross is not always he a big man physically. but he literally as a giant's,

in terms of diplomacy on the world stage, he's somebody that the other countries respect, they listen to him, but with blake, and he just flat out lied and, and, and the lies are not even there are artfully done. they are there crude and there are of c, and it's live is put on display with this latest to ride climbing, the peace plan that israel came up with it. israel rejects. okay. yeah, that's it. yeah, i mean i, you know, i've, i've often said on this program you know, that the saying is future historians may explain to us, but i think we're going to need psychologist to explain how some people been behaving in a line on the one of the things that i think you and i have noticed and you've been my wing man here all along since october and i re, we appreciate that. but you know, every time we talked, it's how the narrative has changed no way. right? where shifting, you know, the words the means the, the, you know,

the emotions you know, of, or will you condemn her mouse, you know, israel has the right to defend itself. you know, we must condemn and tie some because it doesn't move the needle at all. and i think that's what makes the secretary of state and, and the people around to look like the phones. sorry lionel. a good addition to them. emetics. now we have the troops in the trope, as you know, years ago there was a law professor mind what i said, that doesn't make any sense. and he says, no, you just don't understand. well, in this particular case, not only do i not understand, it makes no sense. i am trying desperately to figure out what is this particular plan. and why would i ask for anybody agreed to their disillusion? i don't understand that that, that is not a point that makes any sense. in addition, you have this recently, i should say with andrea mitchell is the grand inquisitor. the torque ramada we're not exactly is, is somebody known to be hostile towards the, by an image pressure, basically just disassembled blanking,

who sounds in this timorous sort of style of prevarication. i've heard hostage videos that come across more certain. if your diplomacy is based on an upcoming election, if what your doing and what you're telling the american people is to satisfy voter blacks and demographics versus actually trying to solve the situation we're doomed . one final thing here in the 1st of all is, well we saw the, the issues that absolutely activate the news as of this particular issue. or quote, either pro, how much pro palestinian or anti semitic rabble rousers in subways. or people who did face homes or the activities of groups of people showing violence representing this collective drug by means of this pro palestinian anti semitic pro terrorist bunch of hooligans and, and uh, and we'll pull drones and,

and that, that, that's what we're say. that's what we're talking about. so again, i'm in this desert island in this parallel universe and i come out of this be, what do you want to wait where i get my kind of just re injection of reality. but then i returned back to this world of does anybody know what's going on or when the answer is resoundingly, nope, well, you know, to show it talking about reality here. i mean, i, i how i can help but think that, you know, the by didn't ministration and, and, and it's a allies in europe in particular that what they really are irritated about is the perception. everyone can actually watch this in real time. that's what irritates them. i don't think it's, they're particularly bothered by the atrocities that are being conducted here. it's just but they're all associated with it. that's what bothers them. it's not the fact that the genocide is actually happening. maybe i'm wrong, joshua, i know you're absolutely right. the, the, the effort to turn the page in israel's effort to get al jazeera out to kill,

to kill journalists, which is really been extraordinary. and to, to clamp down on the narrative and to set up all of these bots on twitter and other places to try to push out the as rarely narrative has been extraordinary effort and the united states has aided in this effort. we've seen it on that college campuses . we've seen major donors to both presidents say that they're going to switch parties if they, if they don't line up and continue to support in the united states, that his effort and his real in his effort to destroy what is really a wholesale destruction of gaza. you know, as we know, every university has been destroyed and many schools, mosques, all the various hospitals and particularly the news agencies. so this is this, this effort to hurry, medically, seal, gaza is, has failed though,

because i think the international community and particularly air of americans have woken up as a force and they're not intimidated and they are getting their story out. now of course it's reached mostly young people in the united states. we don't, we haven't seen older people really begin to turn against this policy. but increasingly you are, and there's been a ton of intimidation on campuses. on on the news shows you look at wall street journal and you hardly see a photo of a dead palestinian. it's amazing how the contrast between somebody for joshua, how heavy have you also notice in the coverage of it, the, the use of, of the passive voice. people were killed. people weren't bombed, but you don't know who was doing the bombing. okay. or a place. you know, they don't even want to say the word power, stein, they, they built the, they didn't nice, they make it, they make it a historical and it's very present to us. have you noticed that as well?

well, i think that, you know, it's all over the social media. people are constantly pointing out the hypocrisy of these papers who that who, who generally decry passive voice. but here when it comes to headlines for the gaza, it's all passive voice. there's no subject doing anything to anybody, and everything is a big mistake. so this is, you know, big the, the, the, the, the edifice of the us narrative is really narrow. all right? we've got to, i have to jump in here gentlemen, we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on palestine. stay with our team, the

the, the russian states. never as tight as on one of the most sense community best to him, then i'll send, send up the progress be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin mission, the state on the rush of funding and supports the r t supposed neg, keeping our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the senior citizens stephen twist,

which is the known in vietnam era to the vietnam war. last, it's almost 2 decades and dragged in numerous countries. not any time right now. and then you don't see it now. what is all on the empty hundreds of thousands of american troops who was sent to the country to back the south vietnamese on me. i got to say no not that not, but american soldiers murdered resistors mercilessly burned down entire villages and spread dangerous chemicals. and lee by all right, did the americans ever fully acknowledge what they did and on the vietnamese veterans ready to forgive? yeah, yeah. yeah,

that's, that's a ways to the late but yes, the welcome back. across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter le belcher mind. you were discussing palestine. the okay, let's go back to joshua. unfortunately i had to interrupt people to go to where break. now we're back, go ahead. right, well, you know, the speaking of the narrative, the international community has really begun to sally forth and put a lot of pressure on the united states and israel, isolating them. and there's been a steady drumbeat of efforts to push back on this, whether it's from the international court saying this is tantamount to genocide whether it's from 3 european countries, ireland, spain, i believe, norway,

recognizing the palestinian entity in the un and, and vast majority of the international community, i've now recognized um the palestinians as a national entity. so, so this is the product and there's been widespread demonstrations across europe and it, and this is beginning to take a toll on america step, standing in the international community. yeah, well, you know, larry and this administration like talented you know, the rules based order. i've done programs honored outcomes, quizzing everyone, what does it actually mean because it never is explained. it's just understood. but larry, you know, i have um, mockingly on this program called blinking the undertaker. and he's the undertaker of the rules based order. you cannot, you cannot back a genocide of a people and say that this is part of the rules based order. i mean, this is the us has turned into a mockery around the world. the reasons the joshua just explained,

go ahead larry. but is trying to understand u. s. foreign policy. you need to be were in a neck brace. what is your head? so it'd be spinning in both directions, you know, you're gonna have to call some uh, a lawyer to go get you some compensation. but the narrative breakdown on all across the, the front number one, united states, all we support international law. but we're going to punish the international court of criminal court for daring to issue a warranty against the israelis up the other part of this. so is this kind of consistent lie that how moss is a major terrorist group? the facts of the matter are this. these facts are drawn from the of the website or the is really foreign ministry. from the year, 2000 september of 2000 until april of 2024, april 26. the foreign ministry publishes the facts of attacks against israelis,

by palestinians, or foreigners, by palestinians. during that entire period, 618 attacks. 1552 deaths on the part of his release are foreigners to compare that with a 45000 palestinians that are dead. and you're telling me how mazda is the major terrorist organization in the middle east? no, it is real. well, the original eric body count with all of us know with larry, you know, it's never said in western media that you know, made it clear. i'm speaking the obvious, i'm sorry, have to say to my own program. these are occupied people. this is occupied land. they are a resistance group that is so you actually were to say that then it would people say, oh, resisting what they're resisting an occupation. i mean, if you, if you, if you catch that, that way, then it starts to make sense. you know, because everything didn't start on october 7th, a little, let me, let me go to you. in joshua's already mentioned it. i mean we,

it gets that unfortunately is what determines what side of genocide you are as money apparently with donors and all of this. but looking at the election here, that's why um bite and came out and was such an awkward speech in an awkward moment . and he made the undertaker under um to pursue it in the middle east on the ground . but then we have to admit that among some voters, genocide is on the ballot and that is something they will not compromise. and you know, again, you're saying you're in the bubble here. that's 2 or 345 percent of the democratic voting population that can turn on election vinyl. as we always reference this. and i think you gentlemen will agree, you know, when i 1st started in, in talk radio was 1988 and this, this was the time of in a rush, limbaugh and am radio. and there was this, this article of faith that you never did. one of 2 things you never dropped the f

bomb and you never, ever, straight anything regarding is real. it was just for both. and it wasn't, it wasn't even said it was a narrative. and frankly, it was perpetuated and promoted and promulgated not out of any kind of zion this theory, but we just didn't know but really didn't know better. now what i am seeing is a proliferation in absolute sol nami, of opinions and platforms. and i am able to pick up my phone and tap into the world and realize, my god, i had no idea. and there are so many people right now who are so shocked. number one, they feel like they've been misled. number 2, they're not worried about definitions of genocide versus ethnic cleansing versus apartheid. and now we're finding out that narratives case after case narratives as to the most in conceivable sam pectin. paul,

our room shows are being disputed and, and being and we're having relatively sane media organization and say no that did not happen. so now we're saying what is happening. so a lot of people may not know their voting as you say peter, they may not be aware of it, but for some reason they are awake. it's this woke iteration is something nobody ever inter, we're a week in the world is one can't use the same troops that you used to use 10 years ago. well, i mean, why know, and we started doing this. the 1st thing you said to me everything has changed, and now i will look at the term being woke in a very different light. i have to admit, i joshua, how we just all been played. i mean, this whole shirad about, you know, israel's piece plan and all that. and now at the end of the day, i'm awesome. can't say yes. i mean, have we been played with this all the theater? joshua, well,

it is in part theater because the united states has failed to push on the 2 state solution for 30 years now. and, and we're, we're paying a piper for it right now. we thought we could brush the policy any issue under the rug and, and as we saw with our statesman saying that middle east is that is most stable point before the prize attack. and, and believing that the abraham accords with go, it would go forward without any any problems. and now that is all a crumbles. and we're, we're seeing that not pushing forward the 2 state solution, allowing israel to really take the west bank and turn the west bank into what is going to become gaza is just set the series of type loans in front of american foreign policy in the middle east where we're, we're losing our allies,

we're losing any goodwill. and it is going to leave america very isolated and we're seeing already iran becoming much stronger because of this war. russia is becoming stronger despite ukraine and so forth. and is establishing relations with china. we've jessica iran announcing that they're going to have a new, a new trade route with india for russian goods coming back and forth between india and, and, and so forth. and so all these alliances are building and the goals and saudi arabia are going to make off like bandits because of this because the united states is so worried about losing them to china. that is willing to just sort of cast in front of them, a weapon systems that they wouldn't use to sell and as defensive agreement. and america is becoming desperate to, to try to show up its position in the middle here. but it, but joshua, but joshua let me throw it over to larry. i mean, i always point to bring up with larry, how is all of these things in america's interest for

a little tiny apartheid state halfway around the world, they're willing to do lose all of this of goodwill and, and geo political influence. i mean, it's extraordinary, isn't it? as well? yes, but it is, underscore is how corrupting the money that's in the political process has become, i mean, he's rarely american is really the public affairs committee. k pack has been so powerful in buying off the members of congress and trying to punish them there's, there's been very, very few that have tried to stand up against that pressure. and sort of that is completely skewed. and the american political process, you know what, we're really hostage to what i call the exodus name. if you remember the movie exodus leon, which i don't betray you know, or little 10 blog. karen, you know, this is dead in a delicate danish girl who gets murdered by those evil arabs at the end of the

movie. and as he is riley's march off, you know, determinedly to stop, you know, to have frida and the music swells. that's, they've been to the theme of american politics for the last, you know, since that movie came out 60 years ago. and it started to change though, because there is growing dissatisfaction. go, i growing opposition in the united states to say, and with that we have to support israel and whatever price. and then on top of it, the as riley's or the, the, the consummate of, i guess, the self destructive personality there, there, there's that all a tree is leading them to do things that literally draw comparisons with how the nazis treated. the jews in the warsaw ghetto and the lot schedule and the ghettos that sprung up throughout poland. and the only the only thing the is rarely is are not doing or are loading the palestinians up on trains and taking them to death camps. they prefer to keep them a place and kill. yeah, well, you know line or we have one little a one minute left. you know,

they were now we're in the stage of pre bunking may and just silencing people for expressing or if it is citing fax, even fax. okay. and, and, you know, we, we've seen so many personalities now have their career change because they spoke truth and power, litle, but 40 seconds as well. we're going to be finding out that there's going to be a kind of a, a red badge of courage that, that a mark of truth. you know, there's an old adage that you only take flak when you're over the target. and people in the old days of being debunked is a crack, but are now basically say you must be saying the truth. and interestingly enough, and this new platform of digital media, we now listen to them even more so by virtue of the fact that they've been expelled from the public conversation. so as having a reverse of that bank write down, well, well, certainly i think it will be a badge of honor and, and, and that i think for all of us and i'm thinking about, uh, our legacies here. where were you, when you saw all of these things happening and did you say anything about it? and i think it's very important even to, you know, for you thinking about your own humanity. anyway, gentlemen,

that's all the time we have a fascinating discussion. i want to thank my guess in new york, tampa, and in oklahoma city. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at archie. see you next time. remember prospect the the more expensive. and i'm here to plan with you. whatever you do, do not watch my new shelves. seriously. why watch something that's so different. little opinions that you won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do they have the state department to see i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you, go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want marshall state main street because

i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you the you can see that the damage and we're being told to move out because there is a very high risk of this building. collapsing a residential above and partially collapses, as you, praying in full says the top a russian for the town and the po, guard region who to and says piece is possible. if you pray me, rushes to the regions rolled out. joining nato on the west side of sol sanction even if it lives today, we are making another concrete real piece proposal. if and given in the wisdom capitals they also refuse it as before. and in the end it is their business,