[000:00:00;00] the action or time seeing welcome back to going underground rule cussing over on the world from the u. a. in a week when russian nuclear submarines, doctors, and havana today is the final day for g. 7 lead isn't fully easily and genocide in gaza and targeting russia with missiles. it follows bricks, foreign ministers, including the res jacob dela, inside the land meeting in russia to try the new multi polar world away from the catastrophic native nation rules based on to joe biden. that will be in l. a. with the butcher of libya, barack obama and celebrities, george clooney, and julia roberts to finance his election campaign. even he refused to go to switzerland today hosting a bizarre ukraine. peace conference with russia is banned from attending to lensky who is out to a democracy and

u. k. p. m. or she's an academic elected by the popular vote to be pm in britain will be there though, apparently, and these dangerous times when nuclear war is arguably never be nearer. i'm drawing from new york by a former advisor to a successive un secretary general. professor jeffrey sachs is director of the center for sustainable development at columbia university and president of the you and sustainable development solutions network. yes of there's a special advisor to you and sex res general cooking on ben p moon. and antonio gutierrez, thank you so much for visits expo. coming on you being tyler's in your work, trying to alert the weld for the need for negotiations on ukraine and gaza. i suppose i have to ask you to give them your former advisor to so many governments, why your not more on so called mainstream media. you want some kind of blacklist. you're not needed. your voice, these john listing, as well as in the united states. so the word negotiation became a dirty word,

so they don't want to hear much about this and they don't want to admit that it's the united states, a utter failure of diplomacy. that is the real story of the continuation of the crime war. so it's, it's a little bit hard to get through a night. these are essentially a government mediated media in, in the us. they're not owned by the us government, but they seem to depend on the official narrative as their guide post. and i, most of the american people don't trust this, so they are not in favor of the foreign policy that divide and has been pursuing i, they want to change. and so they're hearing it even if it's not the main screen, but channels. yeah, i mean we to name drove i was, i saw on the phone to see more hush the other day and actually side came on this show up to his piece about the node stream pipeline supplying energy to germany, which was boomed and going underground. produces

a track down your own bloomberg on october the to that in 2022 and the presented to him came interrupted. you see me outrage thing jeff. we've got to stop there when you suggested that the united states could have been involved. and that was before i see much as a piece and you said, i know this runs counter to a narrative and you're not allowed to say these things in the west. i was that interestingly, you know, when, when i post spoken to was some leading journalists of course, they agree with me privately, but publicly their, their papers or the media se does the opposite of. so this narrative is like, is a game, but a very deadly one. and a very stupid one in a lot of ways. so much of what we hear day today is just lies. it's just a minute. elation it doesn't even really pass for the truth,

but it passes. time. i saw that our government officials have something to say, even when they're doing outragious things. i mean, in terms of scale, even higher than gaza and ukraine cove, it was a huge story. you were on the launch at cove. it commissioned the launch at the pre eminence scholarly journal in britain and medical journal. you maintain that coverage and bio warfare were related as regards to the, the warranty. they're obviously a story that we can't even talk about here. if we want to be a well, a g, the a, it's a very, it's a very strange thing the, the pandemic, a claim to around 20 millions lives. there are very good reasons to believe that the virus came out of a laboratory work paid for funded brainstorm by the u. s. and actually having a serious discussion about it has been extraordinarily difficult. you can imagine

why the us government doesn't want an open investigation, but what is surprising to me is how few i, supposedly i independent, the investigators and journalists of the care to, to look into this. and even the scientists have done a miserable job. scientific community policing its own community because this was a scientific venture. i'll be one led by the us government. and the scientific community has not asked hard questions. let me just say i, the origins of cyrus code to the virus that causes covered is still unknown. i would put it at most likely, i would say overwhelmingly likely that it came out of the laboratory research rather than out of nature as has been told to us. but we still don't know for sure

. but what i can tell you is that there's been a lot of the fate news about this, that it surely came out of the marketplace and so forth. and this is deception, not an honest inquiries the marketplace in china because there was a us guides as well. let's get on then to this final day of the g 7 in the poorly a 7 countries as corporations are literally making a killing of what is going on in gaza. i mean, do you think it's, there's a case of saying the g stands for genocide after what you mean watching and saying these past 8 months in the latest round of violence that's been happening for decades in west asia, in palestine or the g 7 countries. but mainly the united states, which is the, the leader of the g 7. i grew into a lot of arrogance over the years of believing they could do what they want, say what they want when,

where they would want to win and so on. this has gotten the world into a 3 massive i, a geo political crises right now. of course ukraine complete disaster for ukraine itself, 1st and foremost. but also for europe, the rest of the world. the devastating no more a genocidal war by israel gaza. and tensions that are at the edge of exploding into open war in east asia, and especially over taiwan. the us is to my mind irresponsible actor and all 3 of these events when it comes to ukraine. the responsibility is that this war could easily have been avoided. that i

really being easily by nato. that means the u. s. declaring clearly, nato will not expand to ukraine. this was a promise given to the soviet and russian leaders back in the early 19 ninety's that made a wonderful one, each east ford and that day to has moved or tried to move relentlessly eastward and sorry to interrupt you for positive. you know that the circle john list, some would say external group is a repeating, this would unprovoked when it comes to russia. moving to save the ethic questions and these, what do you, do you just flinch? every time you hear this phrase unprovoked, which is used by, i don't flinch. i, i, last, i, and i guess do crazy just a little bit because 1st of all, this is a provoked war. second, the word unprovoked is proof out in the sense this is part of the talking points of all of these reporters. they wouldn't even come up with the same word,

same exact word, repeated endlessly, word not so following. so this is a war that had many provocations. it was a war that could easily have been avoided when i say many provocations, it goes back to the us plan to expand nato, to ukraine, to georgia, back to the 19 ninety's dis, big brzezinski. contrary to promises that were made at the end of what we thought was the end of the cold war, i should say, i the unilateral us withdrawal from the abm treaty in 2000 to the 78 days of the bombing of bell grade by the united states and its allies in 1999 to break that country apart and install a nato military base in cost of old carved out from serbia, the overthrow of victory on

a co which in february 2014 i where i victoria newland, the assistant secretary of state for european affairs at the time was point person for this uh, an absolutely and collaboration on regime change in the absolute failure of the us, germany and france to abide by defend and insist on the implementation of the bids. 2 agreements per vote of the car. so it was provo torso, come out of nowhere. i and do any one watching the history of this is seen these prob occasions all along. and the point that i keep making is that at the, at the a 2020 was i. this was already 9 years into conflict which started with the over troll, got

a co which is by the united states and right wing forces in ukraine. 9 years later, the big war could have been avoided and they fight and could have stopped when russia put on the table, a revised us russia security arrangement based on ukraine's neutrality on the non enlargement of data. when i told the white house, then take it does go, she ate, of course there you find them off, agree but negotiate. i mean, did you speak to the state department as i spoke to the white house? and i said, don't ever more over this, this is obviously avoidable. you see, i know you're saying it's all b as in banking moon is being on this, you'll be able to watch our interview with him. and he certainly said things that he might not have said when he was secretary general. but you were advised that the secretary general's secretary's general about these the graphics. are you correct way to? i talked about them. if you, if you say this is so will be as does antonio gutierrez. don't know that it's that

obvious because i think you may have used the word unprovoked at one stage or other . i think you're the leaders around the world know that uh, this is a proxy war. i'm not going to put words in anybody's mouth. least of all the secretary general, but i speak to a leaders all over the world. and i can tell you, there is a wide spread feeling very wide spread that this is a proxy war between the us, russia, that the nato enlargement is a key part of it, and that it should stop now with negotiations. and that ukraine is the 1st and foremost victim of all of this refusal on the western side to negotiate. and this was conference, so it's a no longer neutral lawgiver. way out, this was conference was a shambolic to begin with and it's chip all it all the way through. it is meaningless. i. it was

a show. it's sad. it's sad to see switzerland be used this way. it really is sad to me to see switzerland used his way by the fax office don't allow itself to be used this way. professor fax on copy of the law from columbia university's director of the center for sustainable development after the spring the or what is part of the allowed the employee would post good isn't the defense you of us and that in the word part, is it something deeper more complex might be present. let's stop without collision . is that spelled out of

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with professor jeffrey sachs, president with united nation sustainable development solutions network present. you told me about how the switch conference today doesn't mean much. obviously brush is not invited in to it's you're uh, supporting deal stein. i understand how for the us presidency, presidential elections. it looks like trump, many of the polls are saying, will there be any difference when it comes to gaza, specifically, or will they definitely be some change on ukraine or very difficult to tell, based on the pronouncements from trump and that back as we should say, that there are prominent is riley will be as backing the backing for biden. and for trump, look my advice to the rest of the world, which is so i 95.9 percent of

the world because the us is 4 point one percent that the world population is be serious. the consequent insist on truth hanging together and don't expect to any miracles, even stability, necessarily from the united states. the u. s. is going to be stable and unpredictable. i after november, no matter what happens i is. neither of the 2 with lead candidates is a, is a candidate for peace. they each have their own different modes of behavior. but neither is going to bring that kind of a reason. i peaceful approach to the world that we urgently need. it's going to have to come from the rest of the world that says, look, you're a big and powerful country, but you cannot run roughshod over the world. and the us

bluster say will lead the way. we'll leave this agency, we'll leave this a, we'll walk out of this pre to get it may do many things, but the rest of the world is much, much bigger. part of humanity. i ended by acting wisely, judiciously operating under the un charter abiding by treaties being patient with us. please give it time to get back to normal. i. i think that this is the best approach because for all the optimism it breaks conferences. the recent one does one coming up in cuz on, if you are a world leader and you do advise some of them i to present when you give that advice to them. what are you supposed to do when you were threatened by people from the state department or some of the other agencies of the united states? when you refuse to of a us policy, whether it be

a threat to your car and see whether it be to media attacks on your country. we've seen that growing during the gaza conflict when some gcc countries oppose us policy on what's happening and does it. what are they supposed to do, but a bank, or? i think what they are seeing here is that the, these us sanctions and i arm twisting approaches are just not as decisive as it was generally considered, even a year or 2 or 3 ago. after all, i what was going to quote to feet, russia. this was a taking rush out of the swift banking system. this was the western sanctions that were going to be put on it. of course it failed, utterly and completely i. this is part of the point of the brakes. the brakes countries are now 36 percent of world output compared to 29 percent of the g 7

were in a different age a. so what yes, threats can be made, but i don't think that they can be decisive. i, i think if the rest of the world is calm and cool and not divided relentlessly, as the us tries to do, because that after all is the basic strategy of the empire is at the of the day at enter, a divide and conquer. if the rest of the world is it's stable, i careful. i, i would say very prudent and professional in each state craft and diplomacy. these threats are just not so powerful. they are illegal in international law. they are really twist international institutions out of shape which don't want to be twisted out of shape. and so i think that there's actually real

opportunity here for progress even with the united states, not it's not cooperating. or, you know, one of the things that will move the 2 state solution to really being implemented use the unity of the european countries. i, they've been very, very clear in re i last november in the in box frame. in may the box rein declaration to support it lays out what needs to be done. the king about rain has further consulted, of course, with president, proven with president children pain. this is what the way watch it wants diplomacy . it wants a systematic approach. it does want the united states saying to one error, patrick power side will give you some goodies, but break with the rest. it doesn't want that. and this kind of unity will prevail because we only have that the one state solution is more talk about amongst

a palestinian resistance group. it has to be said and you really saying to me that, but let me say, let, let, let me just say a word about that. if i may, there is an overwhelming world wide consensus that we need to states for 2 people right now. and there is absolutely a one state solution top of mind among guys, both sides of this conflict and a that is the, unfortunately, the path to continued war and the world, whether it's china or russia, or brazil, or india, or even in mumbling way, the united states but it vetoes all practical approaches so far. i says look, we've got to settle this on the basis of the international law dating back to 1947 actually and 1967 and analysts analysts

a discussions. so that's the, the world wide to view the united states is blocked it repeatedly on israel's behalf. it'd be as rarely government definitely wants a one state solution. they call it greater israel. i don't disagree with the one states. i just mean that kind of went from page to say, who provides. i know i, but i'm telling you that if we're going to have peace, it's going to be peace on the basis of what the world says. we need to stop the debts, the killing, the software it, which is horrendous, which is genocide or it needs to stop. yeah. you remark recently on the fact that the nearby rain went to moscow and then bathing. we knew that the, the kingdom is ad, your rate here is refusing to cut while production on the orders of the united states ahead of november election. so what happens as the united states really run

out of threats then against these dcc countries that are clearly uh for very different policies as regards gaza. u. a of course has been holding a rotating pen. have you and security council kept on trying to put forward the resolutions the united states is going to just give up on threatening gcc countries that can rest easy, or we, in this region going to expect for other threats and not sanctions. it can be reputational damage. in media, a lot my my own view with this is that uh since 1915 the europe world has been manipulated repeatedly. i. it has been india manipulated by the mcmann letters of the britain promising i an error stayed after the end of world war one. it was manipulated in the sites.

the code treaty was manipulated in a, in the balfour declaration which was contradictory to those 1st 2 initiatives. in other words, britain was what an empire is. it was utterly deceitful and arrogant and imposed together with france and america's acquiescence. a per size settlement that meant a 100 years plus of manipulation of the europe world. everybody knows this. this is a long, sad story of outside manipulation. my own view for whatever it's worth is that this era of manipulation can come to an end. it comes to an end by unity because the yes, the us, uh, if it's dealing with one particular country, you don't have a lot of power. if it's dealing with the $22.00 members of the or

a league of much less if it's dealing with the $57.00 countries of the organization of islam to cooperation. virtually not, these threats don't count in less those or threatened to allow themselves to be divided and manipulated by an outside threat. i think the world's changing, i think good. the idea that one country, whether was britain, it's up to, was 1945 for the united states afterwards, i can make it so rules that threaten the others, manipulate international organizations, manipulate the international payment system. i think that this era is really at an end and the we are entering a multi polar world. but it's very dangerous this moment, but let's just find the look at the danger. so this is without an i n f treaty is

we know, what did you make then of, uh, the united states abide administration, changing policy saying that the weapons that they're sending, like i, britain did a while back, and france and germany, they can target russia directly and the united states now saying the as of battalion, you might have to describe whether they are not seeing kline because you're banned from saying not seeing, find if you're in brit uh, what do you make of these announcement of being able to target russia directly of arming the as of battalion as russian worship jokes in nevada with hypersonic miss of looks. first of all by the loser of all of this is the ukranian people perhaps 500000 depths of ukrainians. a to this point, to the devastation of the so much of the ukraine i. this is largely at the behest

of the united states. because when an agreement between russia and ukraine was tempted to believe reached in and corrupt in march 2022, based on one principle that will end this war, ukraine's neutrality. the us swooped invoice. johnson swooped in, said, don't take it, you don't win. well, this was a, a, a terrible, terrible advice, but a piece of advice, but it was also a dreadful awful miscalculation. i'm sorry you would just pay for your 600000, go hundreds of thousands killed because of us. several 100000 more debts in ukraine of ukrainians because of that decision without question. of course, it's a auto tragedy. ukraine is off and losing more than a 1000 people to a dead and wounded every day. right now on the battlefield. i rushes

a military superiority of the air and artillery is very clear. it's, it's, the new aspect keeps pushing them to, to fight, to the last few crazy and as that a dreadful ironic, good phrase puts it, but there's accuracy to it. it's the us don't take arms, can't fight and keep fighting, keep dying. instead of negotiating a basic point neutrality, a space between the us led military alliance and russia justice space. this is a good rocket science. this is a basic idea of state crap that goes back more than 2000 years. leave a little space in between the major powers and there can be peace. and so as regards this talk, you think of russia as well. everything is an installation right now because i think among other things we know in american history, i don't lose before an election. so by now it has an election coming up in november

. i and they don't want to see something like we saw in afghanistan in 2021. another. do us a miss adventure the day to 40 yours by the way, long story, different one, but in any event i, they don't want to see that before november. so they say keep the go up toward pap, which is extraordinarily dangerous and extraordinarily reckless and good. we should be pretty peeved about it because it's putting the whole world at risk for hazard jeffrey sachs. thank you. great to be with you. thank you. that's over the show, i'll continue condolences to those re by u. k. u s u, i'm genocide will be back on monday with the electronic intifada is valuable. nima to breakdown falls narratives about israel's genocide in nature, mainstream media. and you'll then keep in touch by social media of it. so a sense of your country and i to a chattel going underground tv on normal don't come to us and you know that besides, i'm going underground see monday

the, the other way not. right. so is the comfortable with the brother printer. what was that up in there? so some of this, so basically of course we need your last name was name is read, it comes to movies too much. and we have some more for someone who is this,

we weren't sure i knew people to the the the we're being told to move out because the, there is a very high risk of this building collapsing 7. so it is killed in a quiet insight. and then hit a resident then to building a russian border town. once again, the pivoting and the pleasure to served as great nation and the position of president several bravo alpha as i is a really like to the staff. however, the president of is tall. do you agree to form a listen government with his main rival lee, when was that half of gauze of the population about 1000000 people are at risk to