the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 early in the morning of october, 15th 1983 recess, a real good was a sleep in her dorm room at central michigan university. when she was awakened by a man in the room. the man had a knife. he told her that he wouldn't hurt her as long as she did what he told her to do. he forced himself on her twice, and when she wouldn't cooperate with him, he cut her legs with a knife. during the attack, she banged on the wall and screamed for help. she even tried to catch his eyes out to try to stop him after the attack them and told me so to go to sleep. even stood outside her door waiting for her to fall asleep. and every few minutes, he would peek into the room to see if she was still awake. she felt like a hostage. when he finally left, lisa locked in the door and called her boyfriend. he and a friend rushed her to a hospital. in the 35 years since that attack, lisa has dedicated her life to helping the victims of violent crime,

strengthening legislation to protect victims and to punish perpetrators and to help victims re gain their mental health. after graduating from central michigan university, lisa as a real good attendant bowling green university where she earned 2 master's degrees, one in counseling and another in higher education administration. lisa is an authors speaker and license counselor, and she joins us today. lisa, thank you so much for being with us. thank you for having me. well, lisa, where do we even begin with this story? first, i want to say how brave you are and how brave you have been. it's an unusual person who takes a trauma and uses that awful experience to help others tell us about that. you were attacked in 1983, but you finished school and you went on to to master's degrees. when was it that you decided to go into activism? was it a progression, or did you jump in with both feet?

i did jump in with both feet, but it, it wasn't right away when that prime occurred. i was actually studying music. i was had always planned to study music. and after i experience that crime, i changed my major to political science because i was going to be an attorney so that i could put bad guys behind bars. and i actually, as i was starting law school, got a job with a big law firm in toledo, ohio. and when i noticed was, you know, nobody was going to jail for their crimes, especially when it comes to sexual assault. only 2.5 percent of rate this go to jail. and yet a 100 percent of the victim survivor serve a life sentence. and so it was at that time that i just thought it was going to go into counseling and worked with victims so that that's what i did right away, but i didn't talk about my own story. and so my cold case open 35 years later,

i didn't talk about it, i wasn't active. so i just kind of put it away in the back of my mind to didn't want to think about it. but when i called case reopened, that's when i jumped in with both feet. that's when i really realized that there's just so many reasons that perpetrators don't go to jail. and i started researching and researching. and what happened was, on the 35th anniversary of the crime, i decided i wasn't going to sit home and no, i wanted to start making a difference. so i started calling legislators, attorneys. it was, it's interesting because some people were calling me to i started hearing from some of the key players in the larry and asked her case. and every one of them encouraged me to continue with what i was doing every one of them. so i get need to write a book and something i never plan to do. and so on that

day it's interesting because as i was making the calls, one of the legislators i called their office said he's actually in your hometown, he's going to do a debate tonight. and this was representatives. he was my representative representative bill housing got. so i went to the debate and the very 1st question and that debate was about sexual violence, which is really unusual for political to the debate. so i started writing a little letter to him, and as i was walking out, i thought if i could catch a moment, i'll give him a my letter. he actually stopped me. he thought that he knew me and said, you know, so that to see you. and so i was able to give him this letter in the next morning. he called me and said he was willing to work with me and invited me to washington dc. and so that's when i started just knocking on doors and legislators offices is fantastic. i think we can divide your work frankly into 3 categories. maybe even

more than 3. you're a counselor and therapist, you're a lobbyist for important legislation. you're an author and speaker, walk us through this. how does it all come together? it's kind of a hodgepodge of things. you know, it's funny because my family always tease me because i have, i have had been educated in music, political science, counseling, college student personnel and, and they would say, you know, i'm just going to get a whole bunch of degrees. you can't, what do you get to do with all those degrees of it? i'm using every one of them now. i think i went by the time i cool cases reopen, i was pretty uniquely equipped to address some things i was legal and ethical specialist is very comfortable working legislators. i had better trauma therapist for almost 30 years, so i have that expertise. and so it just, it worked out that the writing is something i like, i love to speak. i'm a good talker,

john. so so speaking seems pretty natural. yeah . and so as these key players in the bass or case, some people from the michigan attorney general's office and legislator started encouraging. i just became more and more passionate about the whole topic of sexual violence. so i started, i started speaking 1st to a lot of base based groups and then that kind of took off and i, i started keynote speaking on college campuses for such a self awareness month. and i started writing my story and it just kind of all rows on from there. we saw i have one more question about your case back in 2018. you got a call from the police who told you that they had reopened your case and that they actually had a suspect. it turned out that a man at central michigan reported years after the fact that a former friend of his had confessed to the crime against you. is that how you were

able to confront your attack or, or not at 1st. um uh, when that person stepped forward and reported that the perpetrator were a ski mask. so i never saw his face. couldn't so gonna find him. but when this person came born and reported the confession, my court case was reopened for about 3 months. and what happened during that time is kinda crazy. so in michigan there is no statute of limitations on a law or on a crime that, that, that is, that violence now, but there was a statute of limitations in 1983. and that's when the crime happened. so they have to use that old law. and because of that, he couldn't be arrested. he, um, he's a free man. he's a wealthy businessman with a clean record, even though he's been caught to other times in sex related crimes that have been expunged from his record. and so what happened was i,

they closed the case and i received a call from the michigan attorney general's office, a special agent called to tell me that they felt there were significant safety issues. for me. the the sky is a person of interest into rape homicides now, and he didn't know my name, the perpetrator, but he knew that he had been identified in my case. and then i could be a witness. in those other cases, if he could be connected to those crimes. so what they were saying is, you know, he could be looking for you. so they also told me that the, the laws as they stand now protect him as an innocent person. but they didn't protect me. so even if i were to go public with his name to expose and to confront him, he could send me a. so it was, it was really

a strange time at 1st because i or i couldn't, couldn't find them. i didn't want them know who i was. i didn't want them to know where i lives. so we had to just not make any contact with them at that time. my god, i didn't know that. we say you've been working with 2 great emmy winning journalist on a hard hitting documentary about your experience. it's not out yet, but as part of the documentary you were able to confront your attacker, what was that like? did you feel any closure or did it make you angry? first out town, i want to thank you because you introduce me to those emmy award winning the team. so brian ross then randa schwartz from the launch crime network. i took interest in my story and we've been building for about 3 years. this documents are it'll come out later this year. and as part of that, just over a year ago on the line crime network graciously took

the deposition that they would go ahead and expose them. they would take that legal risk which was great. i didn't have to give them his name. i did, i, i'm not exposing this man, i'm not putting myself out there, making myself longer. go to being sued. and so what they did is they surveilled him for about 3 months to figure out what his pattern, where, where he was and they, they figured out that he went to the gym 3 hours a day. and so bryan ross and a team met me in this man's home town and we went, it was kind of crazy. we was out in the dark, suburban and i kind of waited for him to come out of the gym. there were people inside that were monitoring him and there were people outside and we had no security there. and it was, it was really crazy. but when he walked out of the gym,

i just got out of the car and left us and confronted him. it was almost surreal to you know, i had never seen his face. it was scary and i wasn't sure how i would what day i would react. brian ross kept asking me, what are you going to say to him? and i was, i don't have any idea what do you say to a person you've never met or seen? who's done something like this to you. but in a moment i was, i was surprised because i walked up to him and i felt so confident confronting him. i just walked up and said, hey, do you remember me? and he said, i'm trying to think it was and it was. and then he saw the cameras and then he saw the, the sound crew and he knew, he knew who i was. and he, his face, there was hair on his face. and in that moment it was like i felt this transfer

powers where i felt very confident and he looked very terrified, which is just the opposite of what it had been for 35 years. so i think that's the greatest thing that came out of it was getting my confidence that i felt like i had taken that power back for myself. incredible. lisa stay right. there were speaking with authors speaker and counselor lisa, as a ruba about sexual assault and other violent crimes. we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we're going to go into a little more detail about lease as case and we'll talk about the future of prosecuting these very difficult cases. they do the. 2 2 2 the

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the welcome back to the list of lawyers. i'm john kerry, onto we're speaking with lisa ruba, who's a licensed professional counselor, specializing in trauma therapy. she's an author speaker and legislative advocate. good to have you with us lisa. thank you for having me. we said i'd like to get into some broader issues now. you and i get together every time you come to washington and you're involved in some very important work. you meet regularly with members of congress and with senior staff members. i can tell you from my own experience on capitol hill, but it is very unusual for somebody to meet personally with the member. but you do

you have that access? tell us what kind of legislation you're working on. what's the end result going to be at the federal level start there in washington dc. first of all, all kinds related to sexual violence. sexual assaults are all handled. the state level in the united states, not at the federal level. so some people were questioning, why would you go to washington dc? well, there are some things at the federal level that are really tied the hands of the states to be able to make arrests in these cases. so one of the things that we're looking at is there's a case called dr versus california, that the supreme court decided when the supreme court make that decision and it became presidents and so all of the states have to abide by this decision. and the decision was based on the ex post facto clause in our constitution, that the, the supreme court determines that you can't remove the statute of limitations from

a crime retroactively. and the reason for that is the expos fact of clause when it was put into the constitution, said that it's manifestly unjust, an oppressive to arrest somebody for something that wasn't illegal when they did it . that makes sense. it also says that it could, you know, you can't change the level of crime it is. so let's say it was a misdemeanor, be when it was done, and now it's a felony that would be unjust. if they can't increase the punishment or change the legal rules of evidence, but in my case, the rate was illegal, it was a felony. the punishment was the same. now, as it is, it was the same that as it is now, just like in prison or up to 25 years in prison. and so what i was as trying to illustrate as a majority of victims,

survivors have no pathway to justice. and i think that's manifestly unjust and impressive. and so that's kind of the, the approach that we're taking, and i've done a lot of research into it ways that it can be overturned by congress through an act of through attached to tional management. there's several ways that it could happen . so i did try to get my own state to challenge starting there by creating a law that would be unconstitutional and hope that it would be appealed due to the supreme court. but that takes a long time in a whole lot of money. and we had a legislator in michigan that didn't want to see that happen. and so it just, it didn't go through the lack of justice to john. it's not just in america there. there's a lack of justice in this area. globally, in the united states, we often hear our media,

people talking about, you know, the, the lack of human rights in other countries. and they often refer to sexual assault as an attack on human rights in other countries. but what i think a lot of americans don't realize is that there's almost 200 nations recognized nations in our, in our world. and when you look at the level of sexual assault, the number of sexual assaults that occurred a year, the united states, a source on that list. so there's, that's one of south africa. and let's, let's do 2 of those are the top 3. and then the united states of america, so we have a human rights issue right here on our own soil. and we have laws that are preventing us from ending that. so saunders is one of the things. and then also

we've been looking into making sexual assaults of federal crime. it's a state crime right now, and it's pretty complicated to explain it. but there, there is an article by donald a drips. he did research and pulled presented in the william and mary law review why rate couldn't be a national crime to the limits of commerce. and so there's a, there's a lot of, uh, n u endo and a lot of details that go along with that that i research and have also presented one of the stories that i'd, how when i talk to legislators is consider this a man who serve time for a prior felony, steals a car by threatening, the owner was unloaded. done. he stops with a gas station. steals cache from the clerk was flashing the same, unloaded gun. he forces a woman into that car and drives to the next county where he rates are. now

a convicted felon in possession of a gun. that's a federal offense because of the gun control at the federal carjacking statute makes stealing the car a federal offense under the have that robbery is a felony, a federal offense. the lynbrook that makes kidnapping and federal of that offense using f. b. i hire violent crimes. the most violent crime this person committed was the rate. and it's the only crime committed that's not a federal offense. so that's another area that we're looking at as a national level. wow. wow. tell us what's happening then at the state level. you've had success at the federal level, but are the states doing enough to prevent sexual assaults or to punish the perpetrators when those crimes take place you know, to be seen? or i think the state's hands are tied by some federal decisions. so again, you know,

trying to pass of legislation so to make the removal of the statute of limitations retroactive. you know, i go to the state level and there's always somebody in that chain of command who says that's unconstitutional. so we can't make that law. and the the fact as we, we need to make it and have some additional law harder to challenge it. so so i did have an active, but i wrote a bill for the michigan house of michigan house of representatives. and it was active for 3 years. but again, the chair of the committee that it went to refuse to schedule a hearing because it was like the house to to so, so it, there's just, there's little blocks every step of the way. i really think that our best bet now moving forward is i am going to propose that we pass the last similar to the new york adult survivors that and if you're not familiar with that

less last year was the year that took place and the new york decided to give anybody who had experience sexual violence to couldn't get justice because of the statutes of limitations. specifically they could for one year, they opened a one year time frame that people could sue in civil courts, the perpetrator. it does not allow for arrest or any criminal action, but it does give victims some kind of bone so they can at least su sibley and kind of the other thing for so that's what we're looking at now. basically, i see this is a of the state and federal governments have laws that are just so tangled up like spaghetti. and i feel like we just need to unravel that not. and again,

my case really does demonstrate the nod. so if you think about it, my cold case results 35 years later, the statute of limitations when the crime occurred was only 8 years. i think the central 35 years later, you know, basically my perpetrator won the game. he had his identity long enough that it couldn't be arrest, right? so although there's no statute of limitations. now in michigan, there was an $83.00. and when the statute limitations was removed, they couldn't be retroactive because of the federal decision of the supreme court. sat there versus california, and then even though the crime punishment level of felony, everything didn't change, but he still couldn't be arrested. so as a result, they perpetrator, he couldn't be arrested or indicted at the state level. but because he knew that i had, he had then identify it. in my case, of course,

they said there are safety issues. and so when i was notified in that, i was also notified that i could have no help with those safety issues. because the federal government is who offers victim protection. the federal government only offers protection if there's a conviction and the state can't convict if they can't indict. so it's, it's test 22 is just this never ending cycle. there's too many ways for perpetrators to beat the system. how can people learn more about the work that you're doing and about the documentary and work in a read what you're writing. thank you for asking that question. my website is lisa through godaddy. com. and i will be keeping people updated and notified about legislation writing. all of that i, my 1st book is coming out february 11th. it's called the trauma tree, going be on trauma. scrolling toward fullness, it comes up, february 11th,

2025. and it's really just written from my perspective of expertise as a trauma therapist, but also my experience as a thomas survivor, it has bits and pieces with my story. and it says that book is going to come out at a later date. so, so that's the next thing to come out. the documentary should be hearing by the end of this year. point 24. we don't know what platform yet. the, the law in crime network is producing and editing and putting together the documentary. but it is possible that it will sell to another network. so we, we don't know exactly platform but if you keep, keep posted up my website and um, social media, all of that will be available. and then speaking, i do speak nationwide if somebody is interested in, in uh, having me speak, you can schedule that right to my website. also. we just read this. thank you so much for being with us. former president ronald reagan, one said, quote,

for too long the victims of crime has been forgotten. persons of our criminal justice system. rarely do we give victims the help they need or the attention they deserve. yet the protection of our citizens to guard them from becoming victims, is the primary purpose of our penalize and quote, that should be given, but it's not. real change is made by individuals. real change is made by people like lisa through that. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto please follow me on sub stack at john kerry onto we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the

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