increasing, besides with the victims, residents of the gentle through the streets. many times we need to find the solution. relocate the population or compensate for the damage, which is what around the problem is to do it. it's the most of the victims were stolen, while the population is still suffering from the consequences. we cannot blame a specific person, but the population of the country believes the french government. france has shown us its true face in our people did not like this kind of friends. therefore, today we want to diversify our corporation in order to understand how we can find economic and financial resources, as well as new solutions that would help achieve the development. nobody's here, right now. it is the state interest that are above all for us. and that's the update. now, most stormy is coming your way up the top of the a, c u, again, the

the, so the high of you need polarity i. velocity is, has actually colored out the, the will spring, no state craft type abilities within the institutions of the american political system. and it has essentially lunar golf, the vitamins of x and mary tom on the the we've said in previous episodes of this show that we q weeks co founder join assigned is probably the best known and most important list of lower in the world. we speak about him and the legal case against him in the united states frequently. well, it appears that after nearly 15 years, there may be some light at the end of the tunnel. i'm drawn to reaku. welcome to

the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 the. 2 julian assigned as a hero to many people around the world, but he has been a thorn in the side of washington policy makers for years. 3 successive american presidents have had to deal with assigned with weekly weeks and with a fall out from wiki leaks. disclosures there have been different strategies 1st. it was clear that the united states wanted to stop assigned sooner rather than later. there was an attempt to have him arrested, for example, on sexual assault charges in sweden and assigned his fear was that even though the charges were false, he could then be extradited to the united states. he sought refuge in the ecuadorian embassy in london, where he was granted asylum, at least for a period. but then the c, i a worked with the jury and government to bug the embassy for audio and video.

they spied on a search and on every visitor he ever had, and they eventually convinced the dorians to expel him. the pace picked up significantly in 2017. when would give weeks published, the c, i is bought 7 documents. these were some of the most sensitive spying methods that the c i a ever developed. almost immediately the trump administration and the department of justice filed espionage charges against the science. and then c, i a director, michael pompei o. told the media. that wiki leaks was a hostile non state intelligence service. soon after that word leaked out from the c i a that it had discussed plans to either kidnapped or assassinate, assigned in london. and the justice department, as the british government to extradite him to the united states to stand trial, you face is 175 years in prison. donald trump was only president for 4 years, and in 2021 joe biden took over at the white house. many observers believed

a deal could be negotiated, that would c, assange go free. after all, the obama administration had elected to not charge assigned with the crime. it would be reasonable to think obama's concerns about prosecuting assigned, well protecting the 1st amendment to the constitution would be biden's concerns. but that hasn't been the case. and julian assigned just struggle to avoid extradition to the united states now appears to be almost over. we're joined by jo loria, he's the editor in chief of consortium news founded by the late robert terry. and he's a former journalist for the boston globe. the wall street journal and the sunday times of london. joe, thank you so much for being with us. thank you, john for having me on again. joe, i'm going to cut right to the chase here. many of us were very, very surprised that british judges rule that julian has a right to appeal his extradition. but we still don't know what that end will look like. julian could still end up going on trial for his life here in the united

states. he can come to some sort of a plea agreement with the justice department, but even that could amount to a prison sentence or a sentence of time served, followed by probably expulsion to australia or his extradition could be denied. and he could then be expelled to us trail. yeah. what do you think we're looking at here? is this all about the justice department saving face at this point, or is the government really interested in imprisoning julian, massage and putting we can leaks out of business. and i think parts of government are really interested in prison and trulia massage and putting on rekey leaks out of business. and that part and particularly the agency that you used to work for john. i think that the c, i a is intent on getting him in prison. i think they've been a driving force for from the time a pump pail. of course, when he headed the agency is 1st speech when he became director was about we could make some drilling a song because they had just revealed the vault 7th of august week che,

materials. they were not classified materials, these hacking tools. apparently, you can't put online hacking tools that are classified, but it was an enormous embarrassment to the c. i a and, and they wanted their, their pound of flesh and i still think that they do at the age. i don't know, of course, for sure. but something is still driving this light and prosecution of julian assange. and i think the c i a in a d and see which also suffering embarrassment by the leaks their emails are behind it. so can they get him? now? is the question. after all these arguments, after all the 9 grounds of appeal, after all the things that have been rejected by these british courts, the high court 1st, the district judge at the lowest level, who released him on health grounds, a condition of us prisons. she agree with everything about everything else, all the political k parts of this case, and even excuse the c i a, a spying on him and his conversation with his lawyers and even talking about

poisoning him, which was already know at the point of interest in january and september 2024 years ago before the historic amount, which detailed even greater of what pump pay a wanted to do to drill amazons so they want them, can they get them? what's left is this 1st amendment issue. the british law required, which is based on the repeating convention and human rights requires that someone being extradited must be able to have a guarantee of freedom of speech age and his defense. and the us cannot guarantee that. and that's why we're looking at a really appeal now that's going to happen sometime down the road this year, maybe early next year. that's the victory. the julian got on monday is going to be allowed to appeal. of course, he's still in jail, and biden wins in a short time because he's not coming to dallas, andrea virginia and changed during the presidential campaign. this was donald trump's case against julia. this is joe brock. obama famously said that the case

posed what he called a new york times problem. and so his administration didn't charge julian with a crime, but donald trump did. i think that just about everybody expected joe biden to walk away from this case when he became president. but he didn't, you double down? why is that? was this call actually made by the c i a and the rest of the intelligence community job i'm in december of 2010. this was around the time of the major releases by week of these on meet the practices vice president job i was asked directly, will you prosecute julian to such an by who said, look, if we can prove that he actually took part in stealing the government documents we're looking at it, but if we can, if you just passively received documents like a journalist as then, you know, we probably can't the indictments and this was the argument they gave in the yeah, the new york times, probably because the new york has published the same materials,

week and weeks that how could we indict julian started and not the new york times for the same material? they also have just received that material the new york times. and so did julia sod received that material from chelsea manny they've been trying very hard to pin on assigned a hacking charge that he went in there and stole these. got them documents himself, that they really could not do that in the 1st indictment because 1st of all, it says chelsea manning had legal access to everything she least 2 weeks because she have all the top security clearances that she needed to get access to it. what she did to break the law was to go against her non disclosure agreement and did set and broke the espionage act because she disseminated that to a person that wasn't authorized to have that julian. so we could leaks. but if you look at the, by the administration gets, uh, an obama started the obama ministration binding as vice president. they get a lot of credit for not. and i've given them credit in the past for not dining room

because they realized they had this new york transfer. but when you look back, they actually the f, b i under obama, and in 2011 cooked up this scheme in iceland, where there was a cyber attack coming that was going to attack all the infrastructure of iceland and the f b. i can come to iceland to help protect iceland. so the iceland, the government invited the f, b i and. and when they got there, the interior minister at the time who we interviewed on. and you're on that show john, cuz i just watched it recently. you were on that show with the former during this device with and he explained how he began to understand that this was the fake threat that the f b i cooked up, they've got there so they can frame julianna's sondra picked out week leaks and they needed the cooperation of the ice then the government to they were pinning this cyber attack that was going to destroy isis infrastructure. and julian assaulted weeklies, and they got an informant, couple of inform it to try to pin that on. and when he found out about that kicked him, i'm saying all this because the by ministration tried hard to get him please,

and they are free. i there at the eyes to where he was living, to get julie massage, they failed, then it became the new york times problem, right? they didn't have the goods. they came up in that he stole the documents that he act . and that's the problem. at that time for the wife now when, when the ca came and power shy one, trump came to power history, a chief pump pail. volt 7 came out and that sense the c i a and then there was also the dmc leaks which heard hillary clinton. so i believe what you question is, why doesn't why didn't by drop this case? like he said he would have back in 2010 when they can't prove that he to part of stealing the document. why didn't buy them when it became president then duty said that he that they were going to do and they did do when he was vice president. because the c i a and the d n. c. i don't think they will let him sleep one night. i think that he's they, they would be incense, he would really have hell to pay from the, his own party,

which he's the head and the c. i hate because they are angry. not because of anything that they were able to charge us on with nothing in the indictment is about vote 7 or the dns you weeks. the and see leaks, obviously not class, but then i even government documents. and the last several weeks worked when i classified materials either. so they the, he's, he can do it or he could if you had got, but that's job i'm, we're talking about here. you'd have to stand up with a c, i a and the dnc and orals, hillary clinton, people, and hillary clinton herself probably likes to blame everybody but a self losing that election. and amongst the people she blames a lot is really in a sense then that is probably the best explanation that i have ever heard. so concise, really terrific, joe, you and i both believe strongly. the julian assigned as a journalist and even if people out there don't believe that they have to acknowledge that he's a publisher. you've been

a journalist at major print outlets for decades, and you're now the editor of consortium news. what effect, what a successful prosecution of julian assigned to have on the media should all journalists be worried about falling a fall of the espionage? i know, i think it's already had a big effect on journals. and right now he's been in jail for 5 years in a maximum security prison in london here in london, where i am a, that's already something a huge message out there. you publish stuff that reveal the crimes of these people . they're going to get you. and they will stretch out this expedition process as long as possible, and even if they don't get them extradited, he's paid an enormous price these last 5 years of his life plus 7 years in the embassy before that. but at least then you have visitors. and he did his work, the last 5 years he's been in this prison, he's obviously suffered psychologically and physically and wellness that most of us will be dead by now. he's an incredibly resilient human being. so he has been punished. and i think that sends

a message right there to johnson view. try to publish this. this is what we're going to do to you. and the process is the punishment right now is often often shed . now, of course, if they get them, they're gonna throw me in a maximums in a sam's, even though they say they want those if something like a sam's and he's gone forever. and so i think the message has been sent already whether they get their hands on it or not. joe laurie, a editor in chief of consortium news stay right there. we're going to take a short break. and when we come back, we're going to speak with joe lorry about behind the scenes machinations related to julian assange and with the lease and about why so few people in positions of authority in the united states are willing to do anything to the health of the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 the russian states never as one of the most sense community best english

i'll send send up the in the 65 with this vehicle has to be the one else calls question about this even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on the russians cruising and split the ortiz full neck, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for the question, did you say a request that you on the stuff for the

machine, for the fixture such as you're done with the machine. should that be our daughter should do this vehicle? is it the economic model have new s d c for this? next time and see if it's doesn't figured tested by the next 2 weeks. ok, even though is the name of the company, it's a company in some village. developing bio chemical, whether it's inside ukraine. scripts wants to use the solution, you know, wasn't cheap. but the reason why it's love to send it to your customer, i think what he's because of a sudden the

welcome back to the whistle blowers, i'm john kerry, onto were joined by jo loria. he's the editor in chief of consortium news founded by the late robert perry and he's a former journalist for the boston globe, the wall street journal, and the sunday times of london. thanks again for being with us, joe. thank you, joe. one of the issues that hangs over the assigned case like an anvil is the fact that many democrats believe that it was julian who gave us donald trump. and many republicans believe that julian committed treason with a vault 7 release, even if that latter statement doesn't make any sense because julian is not an american citizen. how much of a problem do you think these positions have been or will continue to be for julian's defense? as much as he needs the public support, particularly in the united states, i think it is a problem. uh, the reach the influence of the mainstream media on the public, public,

and whatever they're told and why they're told what they're told. unfortunately, it is in this case, hurting julianna's son. quite a lot there. are you good talk to democrats now? oh, still think the julian is the reason why we have donald trump. hillary couldn't believe that, but she also thinks that bill call me james, call me. there's a reason why and she thinks it's the, it's the deplorable people out there in the co, former coal mining areas of west virginia and pennsylvania. so i mean, hillary clinton can blame everybody except the one in the mirror. so this is a real problem that julian has still tied, not only to tell supposedly the look he revealed in his journalism, corruption by the democratic party. and hillary clinton's real views about the public about telling the truth relates should with big banks. and so many other things have her own reasons for want to go to war and libya. i mean, there was so much that revealed about her, and that's why she may have been hurt because of what she said. because what was

written by hertz campaign staffers. it's their own documents journal. i'm supposed to bring that to light. that's what we did. and the plain, the messenger there is so outrages you know, and he is, he said the calorie and trump were like we're just equally evil and he couldn't stand either want to julian a shot one was cancer, one was going to read is but i think he said that was the choice. so the idea that he was going for donald trump, i just don't believe that they never got any materials on trump truck was an open book. he was hanging himself. we saw so many things that he would say almost every day, outrages, things he didn't need. so many leaks about trop plus he had no record in government . right. there were no government documents that can be linked to him. and anyway, it's, it's nonsense that drilling is lane for that, but it does still influence public opinion to a great extent, amongst democrats. unfortunately, we think,

and they also think he was included with russia to do this, which is complete nonsense. another issue that most americans, either don't care about or have forgotten, is these credible reports that donald trump c i a under mike pompei o. so to either kill or kidnapped julian in london, i know that you're not an attorney, but why isn't this a significant issue in this case? perhaps more importantly, even why hasn't it been a significant issue in the u. k. they tried a sondors lawyers tried 1st in the lower court here and the judge would just as i said, wrote that to the c. i a had reasons to worry about jo amazons, but in this most recent decisions that came down on monday, they 1st tried to put it into the high court of in october 2022 and the us appealed the decision by the local judge to release julian's thoughts based all on health grounds, nothing else. and the u. s. one that case because they put assurance,

they would not problem incense, so they would not mistreat him in prison and he wouldn't commit suicide cetera, etc. so at that point you, at the song his voice tried to interest and then once they were not allowed to, and this time it was in their submissions that say they wanted this part of the appeal. and that was rejected as new evidence. and they, it was not allowed, even though this is extraordinarily significant, that the country that's asking for a shots to be expedited to is the same country who's secret, who's intelligence services, what's buying on him in the embassy and who applauded to kidnap, maybe kill him. that same government, that's irrelevant information. i mean, this is ridiculous. it, it should be in the case, it wouldn't be the case would be turned out immediately, but his courts will not embarrass united states by agreeing to that material. they won't allow any discussion of war crimes that will reveal by which at least in into

the court. so they narrow that down to this 1st amendment issue. but of course, that should be talked about and it won't be, that's one reason the courts. i think a didn't allow it won't be talked about won't be reported by the mainstream it on the reports. very briefly on what's going on in the court. so it should be really important should be known, but everyone, but the courts in britain have help suppressed that information or the last time you were on the show. joe, we talked about the government's case. the justice department star witness is an admitted lawyer and a convicted pedophile named z for darcy, and otherwise the government makes a lot of accusations, but it doesn't seem to have solid evidence to back them up. i can't help, but to feel optimistic about that. do we know anything else about the witnesses that could appear against julian if he ends up going to try a very good question. i cannot answer that because no,

i mean they can't prove that he on his release is we can visit harm to any and forms ok. that came out and was established in chelsea managed court mart us and the hacking what they have on human julian and chelsea. they said wasn't successful and he was trying to crack a password and that drew at the shelter already had access to all these documents. and by that time, like 90 percent of the doctors have been given the julian a sondra ready by chelsea manning. so that doesn't work, the ice landing story is a, is a mess, as i lose earlier in this are of this interview and the, they really can't pin down here macking in iceland. so what, it's a damn good question john. when is against him? i mean, there could be, i don't know, i do not know who they could, but other than the demand you just mentioned will testify if you come to the united states, they will bring, i would imagine the people in the camping the sherry people, i guess,

independent got somebody's gonna have to try to say what damage was done to national security. and i don't know how they're going to very easily do that. so i don't know who the witnesses would be or who did he hurt to be damaged, united states, whoever they think was damage in the united states, they may find a witness there inside government to testify. and that's the only thing i can think of right now. finally, joe, i want to ask you about another australian whistleblower. david mcbride. david blew the whistle on australia and special forces murdering $39.00 civilians in afghanistan. it's a long story, but after a military commission recommended that no charges be filed against him, the government filed anyway. and in mid may, david was sentenced to nearly 6 years in prison. you spend a lot of time in australia. why is the australian government united now and its support for julian assad, but they persecute and prosecute david mcbride, a bona fide hero of human rights?

well, i was inside the court room in november for the 4 days of his trial and he had to plead guilty because they denied him in defense. essentially, the, what we call marshals in the united states or agents of the attorney general went in and were actually removed. documents from the possession of the defense that they claimed was still classified. they would not allow him to issue a public interest defensive. david mcbride was arguing that he was following his old to the queen at the time and how the king, which was to serve the subjects of the king. and he did that by leaking this information that he had a higher duty than military law and obeying orders, and that was to the public, to the public interest. and they that judge was a real, a real piece of work. that guy, he completely rejected that he had no defense. so we had to plead guilty, and most people thought he was going to get maybe 2 years of house arrest central

study through the book, got them and give 6 years in prison. why did they go after him and the government is going on going shocked? well, 1st of all, there is a kind of, it's not in trying to look in the constitution of history or the way it is in the us. but there is a kind of separation of powers. so that's the albany, is the government and the executive, the foreign ministry, the prime minister's office that have been lobbying to get julian out and only after normal pressure was put on them to do stuff. right? wasn't something like alban agent when he came to power. the 1st thing he was going to do was, you know, get julia signed release now. but he did it after a lot of he has blood pressure. he has spoken to by directly about it. they have brought it up, it's not the number one priority, but this judge is totally separate. i mean, this is a judge who was doing the bidding of this is not a military judge by the way. it was in a civilian court. he was a military man, obviously was a military lawyer. they were mcbride, there's a civilian court,

and they claim he endangered national security. the same b s. u here in the us about the damp damaging of security. and because he revealed the information that ultimately led to the search is really brought guessing, company publishing these stories about murders in afghanistan, they almost were going to arrest dan oaks is one of the journalists and a, b, c. but at the end, they dropped that idea because it would not be in the public interest. so truly in a song isn't the position down of jewish orange, not being that was the blower, but the publisher, the journalist, is, was, was not in australia prosecute. in other words, den oaks at the a, b. c, who got the materials from david mcbride. they didn't prosecute him, so there's a consistency there. if they didn't prosecute him, there's really federal police. they could argue we not, we don't want you to prosecute a song. but david mcbride is the chelsea manning of the story. he's the guy who made an, a nash, the non disclosure agreement,

signed the notes whatever to the military, really military. so he should not have given those documents. and his argument was, it was in the nation's interest, and certainly it was in the nation's interest. so that's the real answer. why the government could say don't go after songs because he's a drunk this way. we didn't go after dan or at abc because he's a drunk, but we're going to have to believe her. and that judge was really draconian with him. thank you joe, lori, a editor and journalist for your insights. and thanks to our viewers for tuning. and julian assange, admittedly, is a polarizing figure. but let's cut right to the, to the meat of the issue. you don't have to like, you don't have to agree with him on every issue to acknowledge that he is the living and breathing example of free speech. the information that julian exposed belongs to the american people. americans have a right to know what their government is doing and their name. sometimes that truth is ugly, but it's always better to speak the truth. and that is what julian assigns has done

. thank you for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john to reaku, please follow me on subsets at john kerry echo and we'll see you next time. 2 2 2 2 2 2 the the the so the high, all you need polarity i, velocity is, has actually colored out the, the will spring, their state craft capabilities within the institutions of the american political system. and it has essentially leaves off the vitamins logs tags and mary

tom on the the, the russian defense ministry report to advance as all the front lines in ukraine as striking the countries energy infrastructure and not applicable to poses hate them electrical substation photos to this approach. at nuclear power plant, the cube is set to be proud or to isaac the return of the cap to new. and that suffices for bits as obligate over regular military personnel, some of whom i've been waiting to go home for nearly 2 years. some of them spoke with us, many of us are losing spirits. we understand that our country doesn't want to take us back, to be honest, we tried to lie to ourselves, but in reality, it is what it is. tensions rochard up between the.