the asked him permission form a corporate lawyer, now campaigns for other warranty or detainees with the organization. cage presented the rule of law and due process a central to the campaign. and i want to know how this fits in which to real. it's the muslim people formed the super state. what would the legal system look like? when you, when you signed the confession was owned and prepared to fight alongside to tell a band, okay to against the us in dollars. and eventually you're treated to tora, bora, to flee from us, forces went out for life collapse. i, knowing we provided comfort and assistance, okay. to members by housing, their families, to distribute okay to propaganda and received members from terrace combs, knowing that certain trainees could become okay, the operatives and commit acts of terrorism to get started states to that the language. is that how you normally see um no, i don't normally say that this sounds like it comes from the statute. yeah. what

brought me to the point where i would sign something like this was being tied up with my hands, with black on my back to my legs, with a good place to have my head been punched and kicked, listening to the sounds of a woman screaming next door and told us only let to believe is my wife. my children's pictures being waved in front of me and being aust, uh by these interrogators. when do you think you're going to see them again? what do you think happened to them the night that we took you from the way? do you think though, right now, with all these influences, which clearly suggested to me that the only way out is to either give up and assign whatever it is that they want me to do or to, to, to resist and, and to help with what happens to my family, so an estimate to stop choice that i was presented with an in the light that of course you have assigned to you. so when you go down to join cage bruises and fort

4 people that you had learned in on top of it went elsewhere to be released or treated with 2 prizes. and. and so now we have this sort of really incredible position where we discovered a wishy weeks where it's embassy cables from 2010 for value. and this is from the embassy us embassy and locks in the right back to washington. you had been in luxembourg, campaigning for luxembourg to take on time, or they detain aids, rece the big is doing a work for us. he's a ticket with reason presentation makes for convincing argument is ironic that off to 4 years of imprisonment and alleged torture modem, vague is delivering the same message. the government has luxemburg. as we are, please can see the accepting good way to pay days for the settlement. how does it

make you feel that the bomber ministration now sees you as they are invested? 12 doesn't do a great deal for my street credibility of support. but suffice to say that if the woods of the us and both of the had been taken and that will be one thing, but i'm pretty certain that i'm still regard it as an enemy combatant. let's, let's talk about this extreme targeting. done. so the case prisoners role is to, is to try and try try and get prisoners released, or at least sensory processing troopers for them to advocate on their behalf. that uh now we see the us, the ministration is using. drawing strikes to kill was on the radicals around the world is cage. prison is out of a job because you know, you prison. so many of them are great. they've become a political problem. you know, if you kill them,

the political problem just to the point of death, but often once a man or problem, we wish we were out of the job. i mean, we would love to be able to jump to a business sort of thing. and then every day when you, when you're dealing with cases, they are very painful to deal with us individuals and this way and family members of people were advocating for. and i used to say that the bush was the president under whom extrajudicial detention was taken. place in obama is the president, under whom extra judicial kenning has taken place. so obama did promise to change them. at least a change has come to america. and this is it, the changes from extrajudicial detention? that's beautiful killing. assume in 2006. really. you said quite a fiery language. let me say our brothers and sisters fighting in chechnya rock palestine smear afghanistan. let me know whether example lies. let me see his beloved defeating armies of israel. we know what the solution is and where the

victory was. you know, it is incumbent upon us to all of us to support that you had, have brothers and sisters in these countries where they are facing a person by the way that i saw that video. and that to me, it looks like a, a firing was preaching, he had the why did you say this said, following this, coming in the context of and it is res, having a phone connor, and they told mazda so civilian services in 2006. now, all you have to understand is that, you know, as far as most things are concerned at the moment, they are under attack in countries, you know, all of the welto, the hundreds and thousands of people died. and i think to the al concept, which it had, you know, at least in its current situation, is that you know, as much as we have the right to defend ourselves. there is no point of saying that

these people are being killed. that is an occupation, colonial domination, racism taking place and that these people, they shouldn't be last, defend themselves of issues keeping being slapped and killed and right. and that they're not allowed to defend to means military. and the distance of course, and all of these countries have been upset with us on the, for the full speech. and i, and, and i talked within that speech as well about how we as most things in the u. k, you know, should be supporting, you know, these people by being my time painting by effectively trying our best to, to support that when i, i very much believe that about it. you know, it's part of our obligation to do so. i mean, the point is it's, it's not about the conflict being the solution and that's something that you know, we advocate against dial. so it was myself, particularly, i don't believe the findings isn't the solution. that dialogue is the only salute is over the same time. i believe that everybody has the right to defend themselves . what about this defense? don't say anything. so touching this attack on the school for 300,

something people got. i mean, is there all sorts of noticing problems interests in your language that runs along with that and that is the time they would say i'm those judge and terrace that they were defending, touching in that matter. mm hm. i mean is that, is that type of defensive defense that the executive is awesome? and i, i, i agree with myself. i don't think of stomach said that it's the right way of going about doing things. and i don't live in those circumstances. icons is stomach dangerous, potentially make a statement about anything. so i'm not, unless things go there, you know, i disagreements with, you know, the way off i, they use it's tactics around the world. i don't think it's productive in terms of what it's trying to. well, once the end goal is trying to achieve by the same time, the general concept and this is what i was talking about in that speech, is that, you know, people have the right to defend themselves. you know, they should not be denied that right simply because, you know,

america believes that they're at hold on tomorrow for a t in the world. and that's the point, the point to the may just about chad because it's, it's this time that's so you know, use so so, so place and see, and when that paper we understanding what it is and we supported you had, let's just admit this and which government both of them would you eating fighters in the seventy's? me? i to train them by the c. as in, in snowden, britain supported you had, against a few months ago when the was supporting your heating fighters, who called themselves majority in libya against capacity. so you've got this play with woods to wait within the media say, well chad is bad except when we say it is and, and visit the sort of thing that we as a case of prisoners as an, as an organization that's part that's most them like to introduce and explain to people that you are being hoodwinked by the public patients and the media when they use this to somebody system. so i'd like to give to 3 questions.

what did force do right now? he would argue that there were no terrorist attacks or any significance on the mainland to united states, post 2001. and how did he tell you that? well, if i was arguing his side, i would say he treat that by all sorts of surveillance. preventative detention, terrorizing people absolutely. terrorizing people with examples of gone time or vague detention without trial arbitrary execution, eccentric, i mean, any on on steel question. look at bush to right. i don't know if he did anything right. in terms of walter, there was a surprise to that, and it interesting give you called some al qaeda type scholars in inside your review of actually said that we supported you coming to power. that's interesting.

that they actually said we were happy when you came to power. you seem to be a person who was of the same mind as us. and then of course he said vehicles. yes, yes, as he said them. and this crusade is going to take a while and once he said that everything went wrong from that point on, it's what about being on what they've been talking to? right. well, if you take a look at what he did at the time, wouldn't associates ok, but it's kind of starting to emerge as opposed to him. he did everything right from that point on which he did everything right. because he was being supported by the lesson. that was the evidence for it. what he did wrong. so i don't mean what the west different ways i mean the you believe i know. and as i think that was right to, i think that was right to, to, to, for the outcomes, to be able to liberate themselves with the support of everybody was helping them with was absolutely right. but as far as the ordering of the, of the, of tax, if that's what he did and that's due, i don't know it in, in,

in my mind just not being established because he didn't have due process. and if that's what he did, it was wrong because it started a chain reaction that we've not been able to recover from since. so why, why do you think that t as as a leader, why was he successful? i don't know if it was the 1st of all, i mean i, i think that the perpetuating midst of ok the in the most driven in europe and all of the, all kinds of franchises, little part of will. if you're going to say we're all kind of will be ok, but i don't think it really existed in the way that we've been told. and it is a great mix about how big it was. and it's reaches me as a person, as a freak ahead for people and people simply. so if you're going to most of will be i to, to different people make most of those and clean with 911. they don't include the targeting civilians. and there's been a great is that taking place in the us and we'll see what that what was the view and then was the world about him before 911? was the what was he? well, i don't think he was, i don't think was clicking on i think the if anything in,

in the gulf countries and those people being part of the struggle, the fight ticket that you had against associates. he was known in that circle of people. definitely because of his personal sacrifice and his integrity and all the things that he done, which you would not expect a very a billionaire to do that off to that i think his influence is being it's being seen for something greater than it really is. people were going, it was in the united states, didn't just attack or something, and i didn't, didn't just go off to it. they went after nations and they killed tens of thousands of people in the process. so been not in may have come and gone. it's irrelevant because those symptoms that's been learning was addressing is still there. how would you primarily describe yourselves as muslims, as liberation, as, as of the people who likes rules, little processes as intellectuals. one of the above. you

know, i think some of those things don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive to one another. you know, being was name means standing up for justice. it means being a little bit rather cool. it also means being a little bit conservative. you know, it means all of those things the same time, you know, and god says in the, for on that be just even if it goes against yourself. and that's a very, very important, you know, concept who we all, what our character is that, and the, even if it meant uh, if i actually haven't give it to give evidence against our selves in some way that we would always do what was nice and just in any circumstance, you know, that's, that's how we formulate or alternative justices in many ways. more important than then then many other things. if i say something could have been struggling for individuals liberation from imprisonment and being presented yourself in

the struggle for a people's liberation. a group of people family ration um do you think this is incompatible with a submission to a god? you're in prison unless you have to deal with other wills of other people, other governments to submit to. oh, i find it extremely. i find it extremely disconcerting and annoying, but right? but then you find the annoying to submit to the will of god. well, let's, let's with we will have what he, when things have to submit to something we want to submit to some kind of all the time. and i think when would my point is about the most involved in particular known about the west to west has nothing to worry about in terms of the of, of, of us communities living here. we understand the rules and regulations. we submit to them even if we don't like if in some cases. but we're talking about in the midst of what i think that's really important to recognize in flight across from

the most read all the way to indonesia. that is, a must have population, some one fits of the world's population want this, and that's just from within the muslim community, let alone what sort they want for the they wants it yet. but i'm saying that they want to assemble the religion to be a part of their life in terms of governance and in terms of the daily living routine. and i think that's a choice that we should respect a problem is we have not respect to that for the past a 100 or so years. so what, what do you think about the desire to unite most of the people's, into one hispanic caliphate? and one central point i suppose on the floor and the law being sure. yeah. do you see that as a possibility? i mean, i think right now the way that we'll see how the communities around the world are developing. i mean, especially, i think the iris spring has given what spends

a lot to think about, you have different phenomena. imagining, imagine it in each country in it and it's very, very different from face to face. so what's happening in tennessee and the hospital own? she is very, very different to what's happening in egypt. and now the most and brotherhood entity. yeah. nor potty. so i think what we're saying is that the kind of statements that we made previously and you know, a lot of most things will agree. generally speaking with the concept of some of the things you 19 to go that you know, the re establishment or how to use a very kind of, you know, all the adults positions that, you know, people have always held. but what is the substance of those positions? how does that formulate in terms of the modern world and we're going to be one, she listens all over the world. what's happening is and is what's happening age of what's going to happen in, in libby or as they try and organize themselves. but it's, i would with

a lot of interest because these guys that can actually, for the 1st time, really have the authority to try and in a normative way. silence up. um, you know what, that is fun for? what the city a requires offices, most things along side living in the west and in the end i should say in the morning. well, what is your ideal system look like? is it coming more serial some amount of between the 2? well, he's a big questions and you know, we mostly deal with the issue of people to change that child to enroll and stick to it. we, we don't really let us know part of our room. it is not solving the world's problems, but if you're able to speak on a personal level, i think this has been great fear. the great when they talk about the system of the kind of fight, everybody gets terrified. but in essence, what would it be? it would be in union of countries where they all speak arabic, for goodness sake, if in europe,

way we've got 50 different languages and people are trying to come together and have no states and one monitor union. so the way we're trying to introduce the european union, we have caused me a bit of grief that costs cause it has of course it has. yes, an expedition warranty which allowed people to, to be moved in free because i'm not going to be big superstate. so actually the way to go, right, it's not going to be a step, but here the difference, i mean, what i'm talking about is it what, what, what links moral code the, hey rock, what, what are the mix, cultural and most important language. just every but you know, i can, you can go tomorrow and speak arabic and speak article and every country right in between. there's something and that's a unique fabric of, of, of, of societies. and what separates us in europe is the language to primarily you've done with just and so you go and he caught that to end because it, historically, it used to be the full. and if you look at the countries 5, i mean they already speak arabic, like what would be the nuisance? what would be new is, is the, is the, is the, the unity would not be based upon their own personal nationalism. and this would be

the difference because that's what, what needs to be like before. the nationalism is the only thing in still dos to somebody came along. and on a map of africa, drew a lines and unity and you're out here in your 7. so they, if they are able to return to in the modern context, the course of something that allows that sort of unity, it would give them a directive of strength. and i think that's where the worry is in terms of the west, is that we would have another powerhouse he established about southern doorstep. but we don't want that that what, what about the type of what we do visit on some of the talking about that is actually the practical thinking that now you know the issue, if you just don't allow for a day or whatever it is a sense um as long as the normative legal system, just like any of that, we have effectively statute and case slow like any other normative political system

anywhere in the world. and so for us, there is a rule of law that we have to follow, you know, in many ways some of the complaints they often had or about the way that islam is, is them some into the city as implemented is the fact that it, it totally goes against what the root of role requires from, from the should i have from the, from the normative legal system itself. so for example, you know, when you consider the, the issue of studying for adult freight, a little climate, the evidence responded is full, live witnesses to the act of the social relations at the time that it's taking place from the day for the perspective, it's almost impossible to establish that and this is some kind of party that's been a little bit where it is kind of it's it's, it's very, very difficult to establish that criteria. so the fact that you have in this, but the punishment that punishment starting today. yeah. that the punishment even taking place, means that effectively the reward is being abused at some point because it's

impossible to, to establish that evident frame. uh, stand it. but i'm gonna be looking for a business starting today for i mean the whole point is, is on, doesn't have a envisaged. really i think you would agree. i agree with this on the concepts of, of, of how we have in practice out punishments. i think generally speaking with the weather that even though it's really important to know the size, i think so important. so cage both pretty much the same case. present your personal opinion except that joining so anyway, i'm really up your personal opinion is the death penalty is okay. comments. i make this thing to yes. as long as on entry and process and then saw a meant, then it can be depending on if all the elements of that i think, you know what happens when that when people discuss cerio, is it some everybody discuss chris, kind of punishment to the punishment totaled so what we're talking about here is the punishment suspect that's not show you the show you is the rule as the whole,

the right driver's license. the whole purpose is what i want to get, you know, and none of those, none of us really sort of qualified to talk about in the way that it should be discussed in terms of a, of the country establishing itself. and i'm formulating these rules and primarily because no country has applied them since the full of the, you know, the, because if i to the ultimate, it's so it's, it's in essence a se, or i think we'll discuss. so that's something you do. you're saying develop this t v squared back to the audience and the color of it that the absence of and is learning state that most people we want to leave, it seems great. that's up to many they may be of mine is let me tell you a very interesting point. when there was when the color faith was abolished, one of the few other than kind of deals with color that was all polished on the 1st people to advocate for it was mind this k guntee. and the reason why is because he

understood that was this was something that was central to the fabric of is lubbock history. and. and so i think the cold for the establishment of a kind of fateful, perhaps not even using the united most and lock is something that most people would want to. and i think to museums with guys when muslims were in, can you hear me speak? we speak a bit of french pete of arabic, and we want self determination. self determination is best meant by not telling up too much with the 2 people in the age of i think of course that's you know, and the arabs have attempted to, they've tried to do the different organizations of, of, of just our community. but this goes beyond that of unity, and this is a total of hispanic units, which includes tax. it includes radians, it includes pockets, tony's. and in the news, it's huge, it's massive. so why have unity? well, why would you want to enter to the whole point of unity then by the i think the

building, i think the reason you're wanted unity, we actually was set up by the states to make united states of europe that would be economically powerful or not in order to combat the service unit. that's why i think, and i think that i think that the now the now it's a, it's a trade block. right. the reason for unity would probably be the economics of course, a defense of course a. and you know, a hawking's back to history where you could travel from one point to the other on ended because you're a citizens of the, of a citizen of this lot. and that, that this land isn't divided based upon colonial principles. so you, you get a wasn't passport. well, i don't really, i don't know about that, but i mean it's, it's just the same ways as you have in europe. you have the ability to travel within europe and, and very, very freely part of your own name. you're the right to work in a life, right? right? possibly. very good. thank ok. so now let's come back to cage for that. there's all

sorts of things to do in life. why are you doing that? um, especially a corporate lawyer. i find myself changing quite radically, but i mean, seeing one ton and seeing investment since you were not charged in the u. k. st. extradition act. you know, all of these things culminate, i'm telling you, well, actually, the noise being abused here and for very specific purpose. and i, and all of that kind of convince me that i used to be involved, something that was working against these, these policies in case prisoners is an important voice from us. and it's an empowering voice. is one that we hope tells most things that you can actually sign up for yourself. you can stand up for, for the, for the right thing without feeding those. if you're doing something criminal, i think for me, it's obvious. it's positive. something that i've been affected by something that i'm constantly, even if i didn't want to do it, i'd be affected by it to the state. so it's something that i think people will say

that it's something called survive is guilt that you will survive a particular trauma. but other people left in that situation are not surviving. so you have an obligation upon yourself to fight for them. i have, i feel i have a lot just a model and a religious but also an ex duty based upon my own personal experience ability. if i know i can do it, and i have to do it. and i think the, i'm just interested uh, have you like a sort of a plan if you will, you know, god protect you. but if you'll send over that to them to, to, to the us. the

man or the

credit you know of to do it. that's true, that's because that's comfortable for you, but i'm literally for the bonus plus we sort of loose and for some reason we're going to be just stuck with richard spencer's

the firm does it deal to deal with the the the the the

the breaking news on your auntie, definitely k, all the pen. yeah. for i protested as to the point of and, and said he buildings on fire. and that's us. i'm the boys over the competence of approval of i am actually pushed tax hikes in other breaking news today. flying to freedom after 5 years incarcerated inside a maximum security prison in the u. k. the wasted below i do then a saw and is waste out of the country after striking your pre deal with the us. but not everyone is convinced it's a win win for all. the bad news is that he has to be guilty to conspiracy to obtain

and just.