so you propose the appeal to also go 16. he was the one who started the civil war in you college on here. he is the cas, the dad as him, inflation is him. he's the wreck of public services. climate connection is him. the refresh and has him speaking of civil war. emanuel mac run is once again using the strategy of fear. the country has never been so fractured the uprising, a new caledonia urban riots. the yellow best prices, uncontrolled suburbs, we don't play dice in france. so this new caledonia fiasco is raises the classic example of how that whole operates. he starts nothing around a nitroglycerin, great issue, sense in french troops for some shopping on the dollars. all things, lanes a foreign country for everything as an adviser on of all places and in this case, just because they happen to sympathize with the people's right to self determination, then dissolves parliament in a toddler tantrum which kills this new caledonia legislation anyway. but still

decides to extradite activist france in the bid to calm the situation by way, giving off old school colonial lives. he's warning about chaos if he doesn't get what he wants in this next election coming up this weekend. but it sounds like really he has a huge problem on his hands, more than anything else here. so just before we go to the on the phones has landed on the island of side panos, the capital, the move in mariana items or overseas us territory from the pacific ocean. the which he looked found that is expected as a court hearing where he was in the coming. i was probably about 3 hours now where it said that he will accept a p deal with washington. we will of course be covering one of thought as it does that. a so now though it is good bye will have a little update at the top. yeah. the, the

time julian assigned it through where he weeks with expose the world secret. these documents, blown united states government being attacked by the power united states strongly condemned illegally shoot the sun for 5 days, retained without a shot that had been sold today. the can change the world tomorrow. the periods for the future of our society is underway. the most this for using on the one side, a network of governments and corporations, by everything we do on the other side, which was to to make codes and shake and public policy. this is which

phone, which i have joined by 3. so i could plug the brands from germany and remove them again from, from germany 0. i'm from united states. i want to of the, of the future of the world. the future is already good to go to negative please. i would like i would like to agree with you. i think that architecture matters and this is a central to everything we've done for you, but that this is a message that we have a responsibility to convey to the public. because we understand it as hackers, us technicians who build the internet every day and play with it. you know, that's one good thing about the governments is there's never a single are they always employed? that is finally what it's gonna save us from the big brother. because that's going

to be too many who want to be big brother, and they will have fights amongst each other. and so i, i don't think so. and the, i think that is, i think we, we went all the time, had national, they know. right. so they were competitive with each other, and now they're linking together and they're listing of the they all linking together, you are right. and in that respect and i'm not, so it's really gonna save our thoughts. there is the chance of actually keeping our own identity and our, i mean, we have to start to our own infrastructure and that's like the one thing to learn. this is why the copyright tours also essential because we spill to be all technology is in snaps $399.00. people are just understood. got it done by sharing files between individuals criminal. no, it'd be a better culture. what is the criminal? that's the story. it's in the culture of for yourself, everybody. we use not stir stories,

let me finish the history of the human race is to have the history of culture. is the history of coughing, thoughts, exotic fight exactly. and processing them further on culture and is meant to be charlotte's deeding. then you are like of this, the west. it seems like the 1950s we have had industrial culture. yeah. the outcome sure has become sort of an industrial product. so what does it cost to write and rotate your thoughts? well, we have the thing that's similar to him because he's playing the bookcase and he's doing it. very good. obviously. yeah, it is. it is with the story telling it is going stealing, but they want to make my point here that everybody will use nestor back in 99 became a music fan and then went to concerts and became a prescript or telling everybody all you should listen to those people, you shouldn't go to that concert and so on. and when it is about sharing culture, it is exactly the same when it is about sharing knowledge. so we have examples where the centralized services and sharing between individuals makes thing

better. and the cats, for example, is the devil's advocate. you were playing with an industry come and say, oh, this is stealing. and this is killing everybody, including all the teams, getting all the wood, getting senior mo, clean kitchens and everything that the, and i once again have to disagree with the those that focus you've been playing earlier. some comes over to members of the organ, calling them to day, now understands it. understand that individuals, when they share of things, when they show funds without the profits shouldn't be enforced, shouldn't go to jail. so then the police, we all speak about previously of communication and the, the right, the public. and that's something that is quite easy to understand is a long history and factor. and let's love to talk about it because they're predicting right interest. but if we compare that value to the value of the privacy and freedom of economic interaction actually went every to every time we

see an economic interaction every time that the c i, c as an economic interaction. they can say it's this party from this location to this party in this location, and they have a fee go to the value and importance of the interaction. mm hm. sorry, isn't actually the, the freedom of privacy, economic interactions more important than the, for the freedom of speech. who the, the less that's a very tough one day here at the latest episodes. if we just look from a simple intelligence perspective, you've got a $10000000.00 intelligence budget. you can spy on people's email, this interactions or you can have totals the violence of the economic interaction. well, the point is which, which one would you prefer? well, these days, what they will do is it will say, okay, we will just for is the payment and banking is to use the internet. so we have those. and the actually there with this very interesting thing from the cables. so,

so that the russian government try to negotiate a way that visa, mastercard payments from russian citizens within russia, which has to be processed in russia and visa, mastercard actually refused it. yeah. was that the pat, the power of the us embassy and visa combine was enough to prevent even russia from coming up with desire in domestic payment concepts, meaning gaining even the even payments from russian citizens within russian to russian shops will be processed. right? so. so when you, american data centers are waiting for the black, i'll have your mystic smoke, i'm general or of these. my thing goes out to buy a coke. 30 seconds later design washington, se. so it, so it was and that of course is a very onset is fine situation independent of the fact if i liked the us or not, this is just a very central dangerous thing to have a central place where all payments are stored because it invites defacto to all

kinds of usage of that data, fully architecture, i mean one of the fundamental things with cipher funds are it recognizes that the architecture actually defines the political situation. so if you have a centralized architecture, even if the best people in the world are in control of it is the facts. yeah. and those that do things with power that the original designers would not do, no matter where we look, we can see, especially with financial systems that, that effectively, even if the people have the best of intentions, it doesn't matter. i mean the architecture is the true. it's true for the internet with regard to communications, the so called level intercept systems, which are as a that, which is a nice way of saying spying on people. right. that stuff was built. i would say you can as a local inception. yeah, absolutely. the law for murder, you've heard of a lot of the rights on american citizens by the us. president obama. you know, when you killed on world, lucky, a 16 year old son in, in yemen doesn't lawful murder or targeted killing as they put it right? so, so called lawful intercept is the same thing. you just put lawful in front of everything

. and then all of a sudden because the state doesn't, it's legitimate. but it's in fact the architecture of the state that allows them to do that at all. and does the architecture of the laws and the architecture of the technology just as the same as, as the architecture of financial assistance. and what the cipher punks wanted to do was to create systems where we can compensate each other and it truly freeway where it was not possible to interfere and with financial issues. it is the most dangerous thing to be working on. i mean there's, there's a reason that the person i created because i did so anonymously with money. it's a lot more complicated and we have this things called money laundering laws and so on. and they tell us that, you know, a truck and terrorist organizations all like it's otherwise you're abusing. this is one person of using the, the infrastructure to do evil things. actually i'd be very interested to have maurice. of all those companies and governments bindings to be transparent on these

issues. but um, so the question is, what do we buy when we provide total anonymity of only the money system? but what happened actually i think of, of this might lead to here and there to interesting areas, but people make it themselves a little more easy and say, well, you know, i can raise my voice. i can go to the parliament. but i can also just buy some politicians, which we are describing to us right there is here a real problem. i assure what the problem problem jeremy may may be in fact it's a good attribute that those industries that are productive, those industries that are productive. i think a couple of okay, greg bought stuff uh with jeremy jeremy. let's actually see if he can finish this the pro, a master charl. those

industries that are productive, they produce well that are a produce well for the whole society. in fact, because the productive they have the money in order to make sure that they continue to be productive. and, and the random legislation random legislation that come comes out as a result of political move. me isn't constraining the productive activities. and the best way to do that is in fact to buy congressmen to take a label. i'll go for dr. industries and use it to modify the law to keep the productive nature of the industry going. right, i get this one pretty credit right now. i don't know why. there are a couple of reasons, but for one, there's a feedback loop is extremely negative. so for example, i believe the largest political campaign donor in the state of california is the

prison guards union. and, and part of the reason to do this is because they like to lobby for a stronger law. it's not because they care about the rule of law, but because it is a job incentive. so if you see that these people are loving to create more prisons to jail, more people to have longer sentences. what is it they are effectively doing? what they're doing is they're using the benefit that they actually receive for the labor that was actually beneficial, arguably in the 1st place in order to expand the monopoly that the state grants to them and what they're allowed to do. so you're just using it for wealth transfer from actual productive industries to industries that enough productive. you can set it up that way. you could also some of that, but maybe that's just a small component. i mean, you know, you, you're wise for every system is abused. perhaps these, if you like free, right? instead of just involving both transfer or how i go to upsize or a small element fell down the fact the majority of the majority of the law being the majority of the influence on congress does actually come from productive industries. making sure that the laws continued to commit those productive industries from being productive. i think you're missing. i mean, okay,

the question is, what's the policy here? so it was what's the positive way? we could formulate these things. i just wonder whether we, we couldn't infected a standardized, actual practice in the united states when formalize it. so you do simply box it. no, no, no, wait until you actually bought it and you actually buy the money. let's assume we had the money to provide the. yeah. and it was all low and the because each one, the laughing industry would still have more money each $1.00 going to spend. ok. so it's not. i think the way i think we went in, i actually think the news for industrial context would be relatively marginalized because their ability to operate behind back doors in the system that is not open to general market meetings. and in fact, higher than other industries, the u. i just went to the previous address, the weirdest thing, he just said that because you know, there, there's a fundamental inequality unit yet, but there's a need to come on. no, no,

no. okay. the fundamental inequality. i mean, you're the french kind the, when you say, let's let the actors decide what the police you really, i can insert you from the perspective of what was the internet in the last 15 years where innovation was so called the bottom up where you practice is emerge out of nothing. were a couple of guys in a garage and invented the technology. the bread. like when you, when you, when you leave everything for apple. beautiful from everything you turn everything, everything that's happened on the internet. just named after being unknown a few months or few few years before. so you cannot predict what will be the next innovation. my point here is that it's a policy has to adapt to society and not the other way around. we have the impression with the copyright wars, that's the legislature tries to make the old society change to adapt

to a framework that is defined by hollywood. say, okay, what you're all doing when your was your new customer, the process is just morally wrong. so if you don't want to stop it, then we'll design legally tours to make you stop doing what you think is good. this is not the way to make good policy. so i'm convinced that when you enabled the most powerful industrial actors to decide what policy should be, you don't go that way. jake, you speak about a little bit about this detainment that you've had at us airports and why that is a good? well, i mean, you know, they've started that it occurs because i know why, but you know, to just speak to your point about what it is like, i mean, depending on what you know, they always give me different answers. but usually they say one response which is mean uniform way across the board. they said, because we can or somebody say, okay,

i do not just state your authority. well, i do dispute your authority. i do not dispute it. now. i merely wish to know why this is happening to me. now. i mean, people tell me all the time. was it obvious you work on tour? you're sitting next to julian, what did you expect? right. i mean, for example, i've had people literally tell me what did you expect for, for associating with people like this. i've also had them tell me like, oh, remember 911. that's why or because we want you to answer some questions. and this is the place where you have the least amount of rights we assert. and i mean the stuff that they do and this, you know, in this situation they deny access to a lawyer. they'll deny access to a bathroom, but they'll give you water. right? they'll give you something to drink and order like a diuretic in order to convince you that you really want to cooperate in some way. they did. they did this to pressure for political reasons. they asked me questions about how i feel about the iraq war, how i feel about that standing, or you know, basically all of these steps and the way they repeated the tactics of the f. b, i during co until pro, for example, where they specifically tried to do

a search through their authority, their authority to change political realities in my own life and to, and to try to pressure me not only to change them, but to give them some special access to more what's going on in my head, and this is my property, i'm not even i, i'm, you know, i'm not even really a liberty to discuss all the things that have occurred to me. so, so this, this is how this has happened to you. the chinese people i speak to when they speak about the great 5 will try that in the west. we talk about this in terms of censorship and that it's, it's blocking chinese citizens from coming out and reading what it said about chinese government in the west and by chinese discipline, somebody for local insults. but their concern is actually not about census. their concern is that in order to have internet sent to ship, they must also be to that surveillance in order to check what somebody is looking as, see whether it is committed or denied, you must be seeing it. and therefore,

if you're seeing it, you can record it all. and so this has had a tremendous chewing effect on chinese. i guess i think that it is important to just to, to remember that censorship and surveillance are not issues of other places. and you know, people in the west love to talk about how it radians and the chinese in north koreans, they need in and in many and they need freedom and they need all that stuff. but we don't need it here. and it's very important to know that actually it is not just the press of your hands, because if you happen to be in the top echelon of any regime, it's not impressive to you as it turns out, right? but i mean, we consider that you can you to be a wonderful place we consider generally people thanks reading is or is it pretty, a pretty great place. and yet you can see that when you fall out of favor with the people in power that you know, you don't end up in a favorable position. i mean, you're still alive, right? so, i mean, clearly that's a simple that it's a free country. my point is that, is there a way that maybe we should actually speak about this? i mean, since issues with the internet, the internet, censorship, and the width. and we can, at least at least this case a people can even in the accusation against,

to read the documents and bradley minex. yeah. so, so, so the, the us us to prosecute, as i said, the principal and set up a filtering system, so that any email sam saying it can go on with the word which he makes. it would be tilted inside the prosecution in attempting to prosecute the case of costs was mailing back and forth about which he weeks and didn't receive the email email replies because they had the what he weeks and then so we had like we had aspect wait a 2nd to, to the really basic question and the basic question is, if there is something such as negative you texting, affecting information. so from a society point of view, do we want the sensor to internet? because this, it's better for society or not. and even if we talked about child pornography, you could argue saying wait a moment, this topic during the as a like address as a problem, that is the abuse of children. and in order to solve the problem,

we need to know the problem. if the is for the crime, the solution is always another one, then censorship. when we talk about chapel, no reference, we shouldn't even use the word on the reference to representation of crime scenes of child abuse. we all agree that we should remove those images from the internet. perfect. i'm sorry, i just, i'm squirming over here. it's so frustrating to hear the argument that you're making, i want to throw out, right, because what you just did is you said i want to erase history and, you know, i mean, maybe i'm an extreme is in this case. and in many other cases, i'm sure, but i'm just, i'm just going to go out on a limb here. you know, this is actually an example of where erasing history does a disservice. but it turns out that with the internet, we learned that there's an epidemic and society of child abuse. that's what we learned with with this, with this child pornography issue. you know, i think it's better to call it child exploitation. we see evidence of this, you know, covering it up, erasing it is, i think, a travesty to do that because in fact, you can learn so much about society as

a whole. for example, you can learn. i mean, it's me, you know, i'm obviously never going to have a career in politics after i finish the sentence. but i mean, just, just to be clear about this, right? i mean, you learn, for example, who is producing it. you learn about the people that are victimized, it is impossible for people to ignore the problem, but the answer is not to destroy a medium or to police that medium. it is when you find evidence to prosecute the cries, that the medium has documented it is not to weaken that medium. it is not the cripple society as a whole. or this thing, the easy thing to do is to pretend that it doesn't exist. and then to stop it and save it that has stop the abuse doesn't. and the i, i spoke recently with the president of tennessee and i asked him about what was going to happen to the intelligence rick was natalie. mm hm. and the equivalent to the style of the archive. zip of tennessee. mm hm. and he said, well, so these are very interesting. and the intelligence agencies, um,

you would have to, there are problem in that dangerous, and he would have to drop them off one by one. but in relation to these archives, he thought it best for the, the cohesion of to me is in society. they will be kept secret and it wasn't a blame game. and you were a young man during the full of his daughter, you know, nice jeremy, can you speak a little bit about the style of the archives and what will use them and what, what do you think about this? yeah, opening up of security archives. well, the gemini probably has the, the most well documented intelligence agency on the planet are one of those. the german is german stats. as you all heard, all the handbooks, procedural papers, training documents, internal studies into another training. all the documents are roughly public, i think. and this is a very good thing to learn from,

and that is what the president of tenicia should consider that or he needs to distinguish between 2 things. the one is personal records. i can understand that it is a bit too much to expect that they publish all the personal records. the former intelligence agency has faced the data for the situation with young dollars in egypt. so way with the domestic state security, 100000 strong people when they loaded the load of the archive and lots of material came out and was name was the spread around the pie. so you could, you could buy records for it for, for $2.00. and the amount that's not uploaded to it hasn't destroyed digit pin society. no, you know, i'm just saying that i do have a bit of an understanding of people don't want their personal records. ready released, i can understand that, but let's take a step back. you argue essentially uh from uh, completely flood point, which is this notion that data is private when it is limited, essentially,

and that's just not true. for example, in my country, if a 1000000 people have a security clearance and they're allowed to access that private data for 4300000, how can you call the data private? right, right. that's the problem, right? is that it is not actually truly 100 percent secret from every person on the planet . it is only secret from the people the secret from the palace and to the powerful, the appropriate. i mean, it's not where you can go to a broader issue though. so the internet has led to an explosion of the massive information that is available to the public. yeah, extort it's, it's tough to explore, to educative, but function is extraordinary. on the other hand, what is not saying and people talk about what he wakes and they say that people talk about what he likes and they say, look, all that private company information is now public. the government can't keep anything secret. eccentric. i say this is rubbish. i say the way he likes is the shuttle the shuttle. and in fact, powerful groups have such

a vast amount of secret material now. mm hm. so that this is for the amount of publicly available materials and the operations of what he needs. i just have a percentage fraction of his private the hoping to do you think when you look at the balance between power inside is knowing every credit crowd transaction will shadow estates of information that is starting to develop in swapping with each other and developing aligned to them connections with each other and into the private sector depends on versus the increased size of the commons. so the deepest instead is a common tool for e mail it to manage the, to speak to itself. mm hm. and that, and the increasing power. how do you see jeremy? the battle is playing out and you told those topics up on to get there. i have tried to make the link between 5 conversations ago and 3 conversations ago. and because when we talk about concentrating power,

we once again took about thank you. thank you. and when we talk about internet censorship, it is about centralizing the power to they don't mind what people may be able to access or not. and whether it's government, censorship, or also private, don't censorship, they're changing the architecture of the internet from one universal network to a broken. his ation of small is something that works. but what we are discussing since the beginning, our own global issues, whether we're talking of the, the define control system going or a, whether we think of, of corruption, whether we're talking of geopolitics or energy or environment, or, i don't know. all of these are global problems that mankind is facing today. and we have one c, one and global 2 between all hands. that enables better communication, but the sharing of knowledge, but the participation in, in political and democratic process. and what i feel, what i suspect is that

a global universal internet is the only one we still have between all hands to solve the problems, those global issues. and this is why this is a central fights that we have to fight and that we only have a responsibility here to, to, to fight, to have this notion from so i can funks, that code is low on the internet. what you can do is defined by what programs are existing, what programs run, and therefore code is more. absolutely, the key thing i think that people should walk away with, especially if there's some 16 year old or 18 year old person that wishes they could make the world a better place. the thing they have to know is that you can build alternatives and everyone, everyone, especially with the internet, is empowered to do that for the context that, that the existence does. and it is not that they have a duty to do it. but it is that if they wish to do this, they can. and if they do that they will impact many people, especially with regard to the internet. building those alternatives. it has an amplification of magnification where i think you would use the you, if you do,

if you build something, you can serve it to a 1000000000 people. and that's what i see. that's why i'm here. because if i don't support you now, in the things that you're going through, what kind of world in my building, what kind of message do i send when i light a bunch of pigs pushing me around? no way, never. we have to build. and we have to change that. we have to, i mean, is gone. do said right. you have to be the change, you understand the world. but you know, you have to be the trouble you want to see in the world to the a

the breaking news off the 5 years behind balls in a maximum security prison in the u. k. with the julian assault has landed on the islands of 5 time in the pacific. just try to p till with no that was convinced it . so when, when the bad news is that he had to plead guilty to conspiracy to obtain and disclose national defense in which means the us security states, succeeded in criminalizing journalism and extending the jurisdiction globally to norm citizens. the, the details in kenya why protests to store the parliament and.