saving exercise on the one hand, julian said very adamantly that he would not be responsible for any future prosecution of a journalist under the espionage that that was not going to be laid on him. and then at the same time, the justice department had to placate the c i a and the f. b i which were deemed to be the so called victims in this case. uh they finally came to an agreement, i think honestly, because this is an election year. this is something that the white house wanted to just go away. and there was great pressure from the australian government. yeah. yeah. what it, what it ridiculous idea. george, that the c i a and the f b i are the victims of what of being exposed by when he leaves are being exposed by julian assault. and truly what they say is, you've, you released as important classified information of them committing crimes around the world. and yeah, the only person who is in trouble, of course, for 12 years has been, julia thought, what say you,

it is near it. exactly. right. and of course, as we know it during the sun is a publisher, and it says, oh, it has been axiomatic and 1st amendment and law, which is that the 1st amendment protects the publisher. i mean the, the one who supposedly steals the information. he is legally vulnerable, but the person who actually publishes it is however, protected by the 1st amendment. that's always been axiomatic. and it was unfortunate then in the case of assigned that this was a change and they went off to him and therefore obviously threatened the 1st amendment. i tend to think that it is to do with this upcoming election of being uh by then once to get this issue. and also the agenda is riley is some of his, um, radicals. so i'm not very happy with him. particular over his stance on the israel and gaza and is going to keep,

keep them happy while he's done something for of the cause of journalism. it's taking away an issue from trump as well. trump go to use that and embrace those kind of a libertarian issue a, well, we need to release the julian aside. so that issue has been taken away from trump. so i think it, those a, there's political calculation on the, by the ministrations. but yeah, a couple of interesting things that, by the way that, you know, you mentioned the course that in the past, the person who is the journalist who receives the still the information is never, is never prosecuted. that obviously changed your course. the argument that was made by the department of justice is that he was part of this by actually coaching. bradley many now chelsea many on how to do that. but manila want to bring up go to this point. everyone keeps bringing up about election year, washington dc. now trump had been on the cabin pain trail and he was saying on the campaign trail that he was going to pardon julian massage. now all of a sudden this happens by the way, he could still pardon him because there is

a police here where he has to plead guilty to work. right. so then we have heard from donald trump explicitly saying as of late that he would part angelina song, which like you said, he absolutely can do if he were to win another term in the white house. we've also heard from r f k junior as well saying on day one that he would give a sons' not only the pardon, but have all those charges dropped to begin with and they would ultimately be nothing to drop at that point. right. so i think, i think here in the belt way, joe biden is so wildly unpopular, losing major numbers within minority groups, left and right, losing major numbers with progressive and certainly independents and people that are somewhere in the middle. because of, as george saying, well, he said he has stance on gaza at his stance on ukraine has lost a lot of people in the middle. and i think this is a hail mary attempt to try to boost those numbers. i don't think the bite in

administration is sincere in that they care about this journalist. well being this man being persecuted, they don't care about the 1st amendment. they don't care about journalist writes, they don't care about that because they continue to pursue him. piggybacking right off of donald trump's, administration's campaign against him, a piggybacking on then brock obama's campaign against julia storm. so i don't think any of this is sincere, and i feel like we should be looking out for a catch. yeah, i agree with you and john, even to that point looks, trump goes around saying that he would consider it. pardon me, julia massage in your, in the white house for 4 years. you didn't pardon them during that time you didn't do anything to help julian and thoughts and, and, and by didn't obviously didn't care. and as middle of rightly says, obama didn't care either. right. and so what we've seen is for years, administrations have not cared. and yet suddenly in this moment, now they say yeah, but we also get a win here and that you admit that you committed a crime right now. you don't have to serve any more time in prison,

but you admit that you committed a crime and the truth is john join. massage. did you not commit a crime? he did not break the law and he's been persecuted all this time. having committed no crime. yeah, you're, you're getting it right on the head and i'm smiling because, you know, i've been in washington for 42 years then and i, i, i think i'm savvy enough to understand the way the city works. and what we saw today was really vintage washington. on the one hand, it was donald trump's administration that charged julie and assigned in the 1st place. now donald trump is talking about parking. julian decides where he to be elected president again. but he can do that. he can get away with that because his position is said he was under pressure from the likes of mike pump, peo and mike pence to move forward with the charges against julian decided this morning early this morning. mike pence tweeted that this uh, this deal with this times was a travesty. that was his word. it was a travesty. and that assigned should have been extradited to the united states and,

and imprisoned for his so called crime against the national security. but then you look at the strongest statements of support that we saw today on twitter elsewhere in public and supported children. and so they were from, they were from the likes of, of tucker carlson of ran. paul, the republican senator from kentucky, a congressman, thomas massey, the libertarian republican, representative from kentucky. so. so those on the right and those on the progressive left are unanimous in their support for julia in a sense. you're also right though, about the fact that joe biden doesn't care about julia. aside, just like brock obama didn't care about julie to sounds, they could have done something about this case over the course of 12 years. and they never did. but it's an election year and now it's not an issue anymore. it's

gone away. so in this funny way, everybody except video conservatives and then the liberals wins the conservative a populist right wins. they're happy. the progressive left with is, they're happy, julian is free, he's happy. and the only people who don't like it are the likes of, of general clapper, and mike pence, and i think official washington can live with that. george. we're getting close to a break, but i want to throw another question to you before we hit. we hit that, which is simply this in one minute. can you just tell me, what do you think is the reason for this in terms of the political aspects simply because of it, i don't see this moving anybody in terms of the political cycle, no votes are going to flow either way over julian assault and i wouldn't think so, what is a deeper reason in washington that they might have done this? well, i think the may be a few votes, but it will be a very close selection. and in a very close election, a handful of votes could decide if and if there are libertarians who might be

persuaded to vote for biden. or there might be, uh, you know, some radicals within the democratic body who might actually show up to vote because of this. it could be decisive in the election. i mean, it's a, it's a, it's a tossup which way this is going to go. and it is likely to be decided by a handful of votes and a number of key battleground states. i think it's a very interesting idea when you have such a, a small group of people who would actually be affected by this. and again, do those people even believe the sincerity of either candidate who's talked about a song. but we'll talk about that more on the other side of this, right? because when we come back, we're diving deep into the epic saga of the united states versus julian assault from confinement to freedom. what is next for this controversial figure? we're gonna talk about it with our panel. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back to the

take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions fixtures designed to simplify. it will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusions, going underground? can the

point? oh good. that's true. it is cuz a couple of people don't leave for the long wait for the support. we're going in the middle of the project. just start off with mature spencer's boom. does the deal a deal? boom. are typical, if it was on the was

the the the, this month and the we are in the rest of the southern regional fun,

where the mighty vulgar flows into the caspian sea. forming the largest as to where in continental europe, which means it's a great place to learn about this the and welcome back on bins one in for rick sanchez. so let's take a deeper dive into the explosive revelations made by julian massage and wiki leaks over the years. one of the most shocking videos came out of a rack in 2007 and showed iraqi journalists including to roy their staff, gun down in cold blood by us attack helicopter. take a look at this showing footage they on covered and the response the followed by outgoing issue.

second of all body. gotcha. we regret the loss of innocent life, but this incident was promptly investigated and there was never any attempt to cover up any aspect of this engagement. yeah, it was videos like those that had an enormous impact on the public's perception of the war and the rack. but the work didn't stop there in 2010. we can mix release documents detailing the us military's actions in afghanistan and iraq, exposing over a 100000 deaths. most of them civilian and in 2011, the guantanamo bay files provided a critical look at the operations and decisions related to detainees of the us military base. those file shed light on multiple human rights abuses, sparking discussions about the closure of the detention camp and the legal rights of detainees. take a listen to one survivor as the details. the kind of treatment he faced. i was so sleep deprived, i was beaten till they broke my added,

i was not given food for a very long periods of time. i was situated, assaulted on multiple occasions, seem to provision the 1st 70 days, mostly. yeah, there's absolutely no question that we can links and julio saw and absolutely changed the world in terms of the kind of reporting that they were doing. the many didn't want to even call them journal. so let's bring back that panel now. never change or to them willy and john kerry all cool and guys, listen, i've got to tell you, you know, when you look at the impact of julia slash and wiki leaks had, there is a reason that they were so hated and certainly so hated julian hassan himself by powerful people in this country, he embarrassed them essential mili aided them. so the question is, what happens when i left to julia sondra? now, do you think is going to lay low or does he go back and work with he leeks and release more information as well? you know, you would hope that he continues his work. i would say he's the grandfather of alternative media. and this kind of investigative journalism and so many people in

this industry have been inspired by his actions and his courageous fight against the, the chilling effect that the us government was trying to implement here against the 1st amendment and journalism as an industry it, as a whole, but you know, then after almost 15 years of effectively confinement for 15 years, i think he's got a lot of healing to do and a lot of trauma to work through, including missing all this time with his children. his children are about the same age as my son, and i couldn't imagine being away from my children never being able to hold them for this long. so i think 1st and foremost, i hope he gets that moment and gets to be with his wife, gets to be with his children. how does them pull them, do some healing, and then get right back to it and hold power to account. but i think the whole world would understand if he had to take a step back and take some time lick some wounds and get on with this difficult task

of being the godfather of alternative media. yeah, i think i think you're right about that. and certainly, george, i will talk to him and those point there is a certain level of brokenness. certainly. then i'm sure julia sanchez endured the truth. is it supposed to be honest? most of us, myself included. i thought the julian funds would die in prison. i thought they were going to kill him and they didn't even care if he ever saw a trial. they thought he was gonna just die in prison a waiting trial. and so he's able to emerge from that. what do you think happens with him? that's the case, you grieve with you. i also thought he would die in prison. i hate to think that you know, he's the author. he begins the physical and mental recovery. you know, he's somebody who is intellectually vigorous, he's intellectually curious. i would find it difficult to believe that he's just going to settle down to a quiet life, you know, just moving below on and pop ring around in the yard. i think he's going to get

back into the work that he had done in the boss. so i think that he will be an important and influential figure. i mean, maybe not for about 12 months or so, but i think he will as much as a very major figure and will be a continually the influential and energetic proponent. for alternative journalism. it'll be interesting to see how, depending on who wins the election, that impacts what he does. john, i gotta ask you a question here. listen, i love wiki leaks. i'm. i got nothing bad to say about him. i think they do amazing work and they've done amazing work for a long time. but can we be honest here? we can lease has not been we can weeks without julian hassan tried without him. they've tried to continue through that same work, but it has not been the same. does julia songs coming out of prison, make weekly leaks great again. i think it makes we can weeks greater again, you know, keep in mind go so that wiki leaks, it's not like you carry

a membership card to be a member of wiki leaks and it's not just, you know, an organization based in iceland. it spread out all over the world. there are, there are people who are associated with, with the lease in 2000 and countries around the world. they have mirror servers all over the world. but you're right, they're not breaking stories like volt 7. today they're, they're not breaking stories like the collateral murder video today. but i really believe that with julian free, even if julian is not necessarily directly involved in whatever forthcoming investigations happen to take place that we can weeks will come back. also, keep in mind that wiki leaks has a great deal of money. now that money was intended, it was donated by people over the last several years that money was intended to be used to pay for julian's defense. that's no longer necessary. and frankly, that's money that could be spent on investigations that i look forward to very much

. absolutely. i think that's exactly right. but i also think and let me john, i'll stay with you for a 2nd, but i also think there is something else that's happening here too. which is that when you look at what's happened with wiki leaks, again, it's a different time, 201201120122014 right. video was different at the time the internet was a different place. i know that's hard to believe a 10 years ago, 14 years ago, the internet was vastly different than it is right now. social media was vastly different, but it is. so we'll have each one of you with this very quickly. but how does the change, and what does happen in just 12 years? in the time the julian font has been in prison jumpstart with you. how does that impact whether or not he has the same kind of impact, the ones that yeah, i think that that information is form or diffuse now. so it's not going to be, sir, to add around julia to such a strong of a personality as, as he is it just by its nature, your right internet has changed and by its nature it's, uh, it's going to be more diffuse. also, julian's going to be in australia,

in australia is a 5 by country. the 5 bytes have an agreement that any citizen of those 5 countries, the us, the u. k. capital, australia, new zealand, who's been convicted of a felony. and it was spent more than 18 months in prison is not allowed to travel to any of those other countries. so julie, it's going to have to do whatever works he intends to do from australia, and that's going to make it even harder to operate. yeah, i'll stray is not exactly a bastion of freedom right now, but george, let me ask you this. right? same thing. what do you, what are your thoughts on that? i mean, this is a different landscape. it's a different look. and certainly even the kinds of videos that were released at the time it's, it's just a different worlds. there was no instagram at this time at hard to believe i'm or and if it was, it was barely used. it's just a different space that he's coming back into. now, how does he just it absolutely is a different space. and yeah, there's also the issue that, you know, we, we need to talk about that the government has, in

a way succeeded in intimidating and terrorizing potential whistle blowers under. i mean that, that was really the staple of wiki leaks. yeah. that people, you know, what have and read information would provide it to make it leaks. but what they did to do and assign to them before that with the mining was really broke. i mean, it was a hit was been to for ripping. what was being done through june is that that will be less. and so, you know, anyone who's got information to release and what's the positive wiggly, you know, he's, if anybody was going to go to brand new, these is going to think twice before, uh, you know, taking such a risk and, you know, and he was thinking about it, well, why would want this kind of fate for myself? so i think that's a problem that the, which of these will have to address, and that's such a great point. 14 years is the span of time between brock obama becoming president . and today,

one of the guy sitting on this panel right now is one of those who has been charged as a whistle blower, right. during that period of time, there was an interesting fact, a lot of people middle of may not know which is that during his term as president brock obama, persecuted and prosecuted, more whistle blowers than every other presidential administration combined. so to george his point there is a and attempted showing a fact to wipe out whistle blowers to silence them and to create fear. maybe it's part of the reason that we can mix wasn't a strong without assault, wasn't just the fundamental or maybe it was also the fact that they intimidated, harassed and prosecuted every whistle blower. they could fine and completely ignored with the lower protections. absolutely bad, that chilling effect i would say took place years ago, as you said, 1213 years though, nobody imagined instagram or tick tock or all of these things in the world has changed. the landscape has changed since julian was 1st hold up in the ecuadorian

embassy, but at the same time, this industry has changed vastly. that chilling effect took place years ago, the media landscape has changed entirely where everybody at this point in mainstream media is there to effectively serve the government, serve the united states, parrot the talking points of the state department and, and move along in advance all the lines of whatever it is the us, we can call it the deep state are trying to achieve whatever those goals may be. this is where the place is of us mainstream media these days. and i would say the release of julian assigned, i would say, could be the trial, the trial, but come back, i hope of real journalism. so that's the best we can hope for. once he does some healing, then about 30 seconds left. we can talk about whistle blowers without talking to the whistleblower. john, give you the final word and all of this. i think this is

a really wonderful development, but i'd like to leave or yours. with this note. this fight is not only not over. it is just beginning, as you said, ben brock obama was responsible for prosecuting 3 times as many national security whistle blowers as all previous presidents combine. the espionage act in the united states does not allow for an affirmative defense. you can't go in to court and say, why you did what you did. and national security was, the blowers are not protected by the whistleblower protection act. so this fight is really and the fight just be getting strong carrier camino a chance doors and well he thank you all so much. that is our show on ben's one. and we will see you next time covering stories that have a direct impact the

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