so if you want to insure it's not all kind of slow, okay. we ask shop owners on this, my burn street. if they have phone shelters, they might need turns out that most of them don't. and while some are concerned about that, let's get, i don't know where they're coming. very role. others believe they want to be in need. they fix it. uh, so i thought was locked and they do tend one day me says to day me says, and then we just started on on. so we normally run on, on wednesday, the lebanese prime minister reiterated that she's country is not interested in more ways, rel, global concerns over the escalation. also grow as the war would definitely impact the entire region. even israel's closest ally in long time so full to the west has voiced the concern, stating it will not be able to provide the same level of assistance against his bella. as indeed during the rent and retaliatory attack when he is real in april.

the will is now in israel's court, but the natania who government shows no signs of backing down marie if an ocean a r t revolting from hyphen, pardon who is coming your way and just about 30 minutes here on our to international. the many years ago i took a trip to northern argentina where i stayed in a hotel that had a view just over the flooding river into both brazil and part of why i thought correctly as it turned out, that this would probably be the only time in my life when i could go to public, why? even if it was just for a day. so i paid a taxi driver to drive. we didn't even slow down when coming to the border. we just blew across it. but the sleeping board guard didn't seem to mind much remember very

much about where i went that day in see you that the state part of why. what i do remember is seeing what was more or less a parade of electronic equipment being smuggled into brazil. it was both brazen and obvious. the question though was why, when i got back to my job at c, i a headquarters i mentioned what i'd seen to a colleague. he laugh and he said, that's how hezbollah makes its money. there's a huge lebanese community and see what the deal is that they smuggle electronics to brazil, and then they send the prophets to his butler. it had never even occurred to me. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistleblower. the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 the most in the media, in the think tanks and even in hollywood, focus on terrorist operations on capabilities and on strategy. where will the next

attack be? how many rockets does a terrorist group have? can they build bonds where their cells located? can they get on to an airplane? not much thought that was normally given to something that is at least as important and that is terrorist financing. i'm not talking about the work of treasury, department, or finance, ministry, bureaucrats and accountants planning future sanctions. i'm talking about how terrorist groups around the world pay for their weapons, explosives, ammunition, training, housing, even their travel. i'm talking about how they raise and transfer money. money is the life blood of terrorist groups. it's money that allows them to launch everything from a tax to propaganda campaigns. the conventional wisdom is that in today's world, it's extremely difficult to launder money or to pay cash for anything of any real value without it coming to the attention of a government. but it happens, it happens every single day, assigned a bit loud and managed to assemble an entire army. mostly under the radar. has

bella is one of the best financed and best armed to terrorist groups in the world. how does that happen? it takes a special person to develop expertise and terrorist financing. it takes the person who is not afraid to confront the details, and it takes a person who will be committed to the issue over the long haul. we are very fortunate to have that expert with us today. loretta napoli only holds a master's degree in philosophy and a master's degree in terrorism, studies from the london school of economics. she also has a ph. d. in the field. she was a full, bright scholar at the johns hopkins university school of advanced international studies in washington, dc. following career in banking, loretta went into journalism, publishing her work in newspapers, all across europe, as she's now chairperson of the globe. they might read. that's a group studying terrorist financing. she's the author of 11 books on the subject,

including her latest called pet no capitalism. loretta napoleon on the thank you so much for joining us. what thank you for inviting me, loretta. you have devoted much of your adult life to finding and to countering money laundering and terrorist financing. you've advised governments and heads of state from around the world. you've written about the subject and you've appeared on virtually every important news network in the world. can you explain to us why the measures that have been taken by world leaders and their governments have not been enough to stop terrorist financing? but i would say that the 1st reason is that this measure a change from country to country or in terrorism. it is a global phenomenon, in fact, i think is one of the most globalized illegal activities. there was seen the st sooner, the floor of the building wall and the policy that being put in place to come

to tatters, financing, and also to meet the gate, to raise them the impacts of terrace activity, or even to eradicate tatters of not being put in place everywhere or in the same way or with the same intensity. so there is some, an approach, the global approach, which is not as strong as it does require. so this is the 1st, the reason. the other reason is that you know, 10 or is, is very much, you know, parts all of our life and as being with us. so right from the beginning and tell her it is believed that the freedom pfizer says what they want to change existing regina. so they work together, we clean the organization and cleaning organization the of the deep a deep rooted to the in the any society. so it is

a problem that i'm afraid we will never solve to completely. now we can meet the gauge so we can reduce the impact, but dreaming of a solution to terrorism. i'm afraid it's a dream that will never come to how much of an actual problem is this? on a global scale with a post $911.00 changes in place in the international finance. is it possible for terrorist groups to finance their operations on a grand scale? ok. okay, so $911.00 was then i would say it was one alpha, meaning that was an event that took place at a certain point in history because of a series of circumstances. so if you think about that, the hijackers were funded with trans federal money taking place to norma by cut norma banking got channels. so they, they obtained

a visa to enter the united states. most of them not to saudi arabia on is the, the procedure right now. all of that took place at the time in which nobody could have predicted or would have expected and events like that. not to take place that think about getting on a plane without being checked. i mean, this is impossible. it's never going to happen again. but that doesn't mean that terrorism that's not pose at the same kind of threat that's needed with 911. i mean the look what, what happened with the seminal october attack by a months in israel. i mean did retaliation know from israel is very similar to what the united states as done after 911. now that is so generally what inflates people support therapy with the support of people that

sympathize with certain codes. so we will see the consequences in the years to come . so from that point of view, i would say that is still possible to create the same kind of that care. so at global level, or at least at international level. and also does possible through these kind of event exceptional if and just to convince people to join in the fight. because the illusion that these kind of attacks project is that it is possible to achieve the goal of terrorism. so in the case of a kind, i swear, all know, was the distraction of the united states that as an economic superpower. so the attack to towards the decided way enemy,

in order to stop the far away enemy from financing and supporting the near enemy, which was, you know, the corrupted regina of the various countries from where, you know, the members of archive that's came from. so the same think we can hear them and say, hey, could up and now after october, the 7 know of course it is an illusion because no, and we don't have any prove that the in history, these kind of event of really change an existing or a game so unless of course that followed by an uprising, which is a public uprising? no, we have not seen this happen it and go in there are a war after 9 that have been who are not going to see that happening in the rewards after october 7. but never the less, you know, there is this idea is this new,

you know, and that is what we should really be concentrating on. if we want really to meet you gauge and also to reduce the power of error. so getting stations i read recently that virtually the only way left to launder money on a large scale is through the purchase of real estate, fine art and resources. i don't fully understand that. can you explain? well, yes, of course, that's what we've seen a many cases in recent years. so people buying uh, for example of property in the, in spain, uh, in uh, south in the, on the, on the big is around your shore. so of spain, portugal. 2 also, you know, the 1000 lead to lead and the use these kind of activity to load their money. now you, you may ask, was this possible because, i mean,

you can people actually, you know, carry suitcases and they're full of cash and some of the accept them. well actually yes. i mean, most of the money laundering them, they staking place today as it was in the past by the way it was in the past takes place and in cash and takes place with bach shipment because you know, we're talking about large amount of money. i mean, i gave you an example. i actually came across a situation like this in the option tina is. so people in the united states want to buy property in one of cyrus because you know, they want to have a place to go during the summer months. so, or, you know, whatever, you know, but they can't really bring the money in so easily. you know that then to take

them out because there are a northern side or 6. and so what did they do? they range for people that they know to do the exchange. so let's say, you know, you are in a resident of the cyrus, you are a professional and you want to send your children to school in the united states and you have to pay the fees in us dollars. so instead of doing the transfer of money, which of course will be tax and also regulated, at least you know, until recently, where you do is you, you get into an arrangement with somebody in the united states. and you will provide the money in the witness side is to buy an apartment uh for this person and the next change. this person will pay the fees of your children. they are going to university know this is a very, very, i would say,

middle class level, any happened so all the time. now do people know that by doing that they may get involved with money laundering? got me. i think you lots of people don't, but this is very, very easy way to overcome restriction the on both side. so through this kind of connection. so yeah, i'll do you stop something like that. you see in order to stop something like that, where you need is to educate people, to teach them that by doing that, by behaving in this way. that actually, you know, breaking the role. but also they are supporting got any legal activity. this is just one of the many example, and then of course you also have, you know, the, are towards the same to be, can be applied to the art ward you, you,

if you are buying something go, which is very expensive. if you're buying a castle or you know, in a row, that's going to be very difficult. but if you buy, let's say, and middle to lower side artist, which is not very well. no, no, it is in you. it doesn't require a lot of money. then. yes, you can easily do something like that and it is a, well, i'll do the loan, the millions and millions, hundreds of millions of by doing that, it just repeat the same old peroration over and over again. or there's plenty of people who are willing to get into this kind of activity loretta and apply on it internationally recognized expert on terrorist financing. thank you for speaking with us, but don't go away. so we're going to take a short break. and when we come back,

we'll continue our conversation and ask her about the methods by which terrace are prevented from financing and how the must constantly change state to. 2 2 the what is part of one of the leg isn't available posted. isn't the defense you of us and bidding the word, or is it something deeper, more complex might be present? let's stop without glitches. let's go out of the the

welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto we're speaking with author journalist and terrorist financing expert loretta and the polio on the loretta. thanks again for being with us. thank you. loretta. i spent 15 years in the c. i a working on counterterrorism followed by 2 years. as the chief investigator at the senate foreign relations committee, i remember very well how complicated tracking terrors money was. and i remember how so many big important international banks found themselves involved. it was probably inadvertent, but there was also an element of bank leaders being blinded by greed. that's would cause them to look the other way for far too long. has this been your experience and if so has that changed? yes, absolutely. i a s b,

in my experience. also things have changed to see, i would say significantly after 911 because of the end of banking regulation. it is not as easy as it was in the past, but this is still take place. i'm afraid. yes, this is an element of course as come into the equation and reason to you. and this is creeped to conferences. so now i, this miss calling is very much a core and say that is tracked it every single step. now initially, bitcoin was use the bi claim, an organization or on the doc net. it was also used for money laundering. but that stopped because now it is clear that you can track every single step of the beads, calling the bulk chain. and eventually,

when you go and exchange the beat, the beat calling for in real money, which can be any quarter and says, this is when the mechanism out of the investigation actually can book you. we have several cases was seen in recent, near where, you know, people where long getting billions and there were a hand discover that actually was the f b i that they did the 1st major but break through with big coins. but these calling is just one of the many, many, many, crypt accordance is some, some of these crypt mclawrence is like more lovely money. how do you just being created out of, you know, with the success of search or organization which of pulled up, you know, web page is that, or that they cell service and kind of services on the internet. so

through that kind of a crypto car and see if it is possible to long throwing their money because there is no control because you know, there is no, it's impossible to patrol every single transaction without the the block chain which includes this typical only of the beads calling them now the banking system, a dozen deal openly in bates calling audio. now beach cooling is part of the financial industry, let's say in the, in the united states. so technically speaking, you could, to beach can still do these kind of, i could see with the other, you know, it's, i don't think i haven't seen it anyway. i mean, claiming organizations are not relying on on beach call and, and then you know that there are many other ways. um, there is

a formal banking system for example, known as a saturday only there while a but also the informal banking system which is use in, in china. i mean, the chinese do land each other money to a new form of banking system. and often the system is based upon in a large family. so if you really want to money loaned me to uh channels which are either the banking system, the or you know, the informal banking system, you can still do it. but you have to be more careful than you are before. i actually wanted to ask you about that. specifically. i did an investigation more than a decade ago for john kerry when he was the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee. i went to the middle east and i was able to transfer just as a test, $50.00 to myself, through something called a while. i went to

a small shop in abu dhabi. i gave him in $50.00. he gave me a very long number by which to later claim the money. and when i got home to washington, i went to an arrow bakery. i gave the man there my number and i got my $50.00 back . this was very small stakes, of course, but are these while as used to finance terrorist groups and if so, what can be done to regulate them? of course there is there while that is use for tatters. finance, and i mean it's not. so we just know the deal wallace system is controlled by terrorist organization of 3 not, but the wallet system is so you get and it's all over to ward is you know, as a super global assist them is um is actually very cheap in comparison to other systems so transfer like you know, west and you know, for example,

it's very quick. you can do, i mean, you, you must have experienced that. so it's, um, it's also linked to the goal. and so the, the reserves of their while a are actually in goal to see it. so you can even transfer gold instead of you know, transferring money if it is possible to do that to. and that's, it may be actually a good way to avoid the controls because, i mean golda is yes, this tangible but it's difficult to face it. so, um there, while i was there, the advantage of the wireless is a to goes everywhere so, so you can find in a while a door to somebody that can transfer the money and gave you the money everywhere in

the ward. so, you know, you could, you can be up in the mountains, in pakistan and, and use the water. now the, of the use of the wall, i would say, in terms of the terrace financing, is at micro level is a either small donations for example. so we're not seeing and saudi arabia, for example. i mean, any body we sponsoring the arm to canyons ation for inside your of is now going to use the water. it's going to use either x to you either means that bulk shipment of cash being the most uh the most use and the preferable one. but a global level, the supervisor, the people in the, well actually look at that group but that arms organization that they believe that is fighting for the freedom of the region. no space. if

i that the freedom of the region, because most of the people that actually are sponsoring in the, in this way, i feel that i've no idea what to tell her is good. his haitian is they really do believe that the group that they're funding is a group was finding that's not for the freedom of their own people. so these kind of individual all over towards, you know, use the walla to find the various organization as they use the wallet, also to phone charges. so they do a good job in, in that range. what's the next financing battlefield, loretta? do government still have to worry about the banks? can money still be transferred on a large scale and how much strategies change in order to keep up with the terrorist to? i think we're already in the, in the next event. show the feel the,

the new frontier is actually cyber sad or is this very little is reported about not to so many, many companies. so do know a report that they have been hacked by organization that require payment to run some run. some is today around some of us, which is also a button, particularly i would say run some of the cyber attacks is one of the most important source of tanner is financing. and we know very little about that. so imagine a big organization and be corporation that gets hacked and they, we'd run some way and they ask for a payment of 2 or 200000000 and stuff like that organization will pay as quickly as you possibly can. so that nobody would know that is being hacked because you

know, if you, if the news that you're being hacked comes how to then there's a few taishan of this organization is going to be damage. and there is no way there is no way that you can protect and present yourself from these kind of back attacks. so hacking is the new frontier. and perhaps this is why we haven't seen a lot of financial activity for tatters, sign on. so united feels because it all takes place in the documents of the internet to loretta. that was absolutely brilliant. thank you so much for coming on the show. well, thank you john. know nature as all of us have been infected by terrorist and then one way or another, whether it's americans arriving for a normal day's work on the morning of september, 11th,

2001 russians gathering in the theater to listen to some music earlier this year. or anybody else in any of the world's countries. terrorism, of course, can never be accepted, never under any circumstances. it's up to us to fight together with methods that do not compromise our respect for the rules of law and for human rights. that's why we owe such a debt of gratitude to people like loretta napoleonic. i know that i for 1 am indebted thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto please follow me on subsets at john kerry onto. we'll see you next time . 2 the

41 percent of us adults have enough savings to cover a $1000.00 emergency. if we have record numbers of americans who are on the verge of having their cars repossess more than a 137000000 americans are facing financial hardship because of medical then in america, we do have a welfare system in place to help people who are struggling financially, but it's a conditional system you have to prove to the government that you truly need help. the simplest way, like explain the basic income, is that is like social security. for the rest of us, a basic income would be a monthly payments that would go to everyone. just a $1000.00 a month, no strings attached as needed. so have i would like them maybe. i don't know. i just won't go crazy. the reason that i am a fan of guaranteed income because it is this idea that everybody is deserve. and

then just by virtue absorbing here, the vote counting is underway in iran. and as the people choose, a new president following last month's death of abraham. right, you see, and a helicopter crash, the new york times editorial board calls on biden to drop out of the presidential race, calling him a shadow of a great public service after his train rack of a performance and the 1st debates with donald trump independent us presidential candidate, robert f. kennedy junior argues that the nation deserves a better friend to choose between the lesser of 2 evils. people across the country are echoing this sentiment. these are 3 choices is bad. honestly, labels is like a disaster. it was really hard to watch. i think it's a national and.