are going to align completely with the other side, which is the most people in the world. oh, i would say rochelle china, what they want to do is to, to be able to choose what, which positives of the best for their own interests. always good to have a what they say on all the international coming up next on. can we all agree with the last episode of the whistle blowers and on thought was more days and 30 minutes . the then the many years ago i took a trip to northern argentina where i stayed in a hotel that had a view just over the fluttering river into both brazil and part of why i thought correctly as it turned out, that this would probably be the only time in my life when i could go to products, why? even if it was just for a day. so i paid a taxi driver to drive. we didn't even slow down when coming to the border. we just

blew across it. but the sleeping border guard didn't seem to mind much. i don't remember very much about where i went that day in. so you did as a part of why. what i do remember is seeing what was more or less a parade of electronic equipment being smuggled into brazil. it was both brazen and obvious. the question though was why, when i got back to my job at c, i a headquarters i mentioned what i'd seen to a colleague, he left and he said, that's how hezbollah makes its money. there's a huge lebanese community into the state. they smuggle electronics to brazil and then they send the prophets to his butler. it had never even occurred to me. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 the most in the media, in the think tanks and even in hollywood,

focus on terrorist operations on capabilities and on strategy. where will the next attack be? how many rockets does a terrorist group have? can they build bonds where their cells located? can they get on to an airplane? not much thought that was normally given to something that is at least as important and that is terrorist financing. i'm not talking about the work of treasury, department, or finance, ministry, bureaucrats and accountants planning future sanctions. i'm talking about how terrorist groups around the world pay for their weapons, explosives, ammunition, training, housing, even their travel. i'm talking about how they raise and transfer money. money is the life blood of terrorist groups. it's money that allows them to launch everything from a tax to propaganda campaigns. the conventional wisdom is that in today's world, it's extremely difficult to launder money or to pay cash for anything of any real

value without it coming to the attention of a government. but it happens, it happens every single day, assigned a bit loud and managed to assemble an entire army. mostly under the radar. has bella is one of the best financed and best armed to terrorist groups in the world. how does that happen? it takes a special person to develop expertise and terrorist financing. it takes the person who is not afraid to confront the details, and it takes a person who will be committed to the issue over the long haul. we are very fortunate to have that expert with us today. loretta napoli only holds a master's degree in philosophy and a master's degree in terrorism, studies from the london school of economics. she also has a ph. d. in the field. she was a full, bright scholar at the johns hopkins university school of advanced international studies in washington, dc. following career in banking, loretta went into journalism, publishing her work in newspapers, all across europe, as she's now chairperson of the globe. they might read. that's

a group studying terrorist financing. she's the author of 11 books on the subject, including her latest called pet no capitalism. loretta napoleon on the thank you so much for joining us. what thank you for inviting me, loretta. you have devoted much of your adult life to finding and to countering money laundering and terrorist financing. you've advised governments and heads of state from around the world. you've written about the subject and you've appeared on virtually every important news network in the world. can you explain to us why the measures that have been taken by world leaders and their governments have not been enough to stop terrorist financing? but i would say that the 1st reason is that this measure a change from country to country, or instead her is a, is a global phenomenon. in fact, i think he's one of the most globalized illegal activity is there was seen the st

sooner. the 4 of the berlin wall and the policy that being put in play to come to tanner is financing and also to mitigate tyree's stem, the impacts of terrorist activity, or even to eradicate tetter is of not being put in place everywhere. or in the same way or with the same intensity. so there is, um, an approach the global approach, which is not as strong as it does require. so this is the 1st reason. the other reason is that you know, 10 or is, is very much, you know, parts all of our life, them as being with us. so right from the beginning and tell her it is believed that the freedom pfizer says would they want to change existing regina? so they work together with clement organization and then clement organization of

the deep, a deep rooted in the any society. so it is a problem that i'm afraid we will never solve to completely. now we can meet the gauge, it's a we can reduce the impact, but dreaming of a solution to terrorism. i'm afraid to, it's a dream that will never come through. how much of an actual problem is this on a global scale with a post 911 changes in place in the international finance? is it possible for terrorist groups to finance their operations on a grand scale to okay, so $911.00 was um i would say it was one off uh meaning that was an event. uh, that took place at a certain point in history because of a serious of circumstances. so if you think about that, the hijackers were funded with trans federal money taking place to norma

by cut norma banking got channels that they obtain visa to enter the united states. most of them not to saudi arabia on is the, the procedure i know all of that to took place at the time in which nobody could have predicted or would have expected and events like that. not to take place that think about getting on a plane without being checked. i mean, this is impossible. it's never going to happen again. but that doesn't mean that terrorist that's not pose at the same kind of threat that's needed with 911. i mean the look what, what happened with the 7 of october attack by a months in israel. i mean did retaliation know from israel is very similar to

what the united states as done after 911. now that is so generally what inflates people support therapy with the support of peoples that sympathize with certain codes. so we will see the consequences in the years to come . so from that point of view, i would say that is still possible to create the same kind of that care. so at global level, or at least at international level. and also does possible through these kind of event exceptional if and just to convince people to join in the fight. because the illusion that these kind of attacks project is that it is possible to achieve the goal of terrorism. so in the case of a kind, i swear, all know what's the destruction of the united states?

it is an economic superpower. so death, tact to towards the far away enemy in order to stop the far away enemy from financing and supporting the near enemy, which will enter the corrupted regina or the various countries from where you know, the members of archive that's came from to the same. think we can do that and say hey, could up and now after october the 7 know course it is an illusion because no. right? we don't have any prove that's the in history. these kind of event of really change an existing regina. so unless of course that followed by an uprising, which is a public uprising? no, we have not seen this happen it. and in the our award after 911 who are not

going to see that happening in the rewards after october 7. but never the less, you know, there is this idea is this news, you know, and that is what we should really be concentrating on if we want really to meet you gauge and also to reduce the power of errors. so again, it's ations. i read recently that virtually the only way left to launder money on a large scale is through the purchase of real estate, fine art and resources. i don't fully understand that. can you explain? well, yes, of course, that's what we've seen a many cases in recent years. so people buying uh, for example of property in the, in spain, uh, in uh, south in the, on the on demands around your shores of, of spain, portugal also, you know, the size of the valley and the use these kind of activity to

load their money. now you, you may ask hours this possible because i mean, you can people actually, you know, carry suitcases and therefore cash and some with the accept them. well actually yes . i mean, most of the money laundering them, they staking place today as it was in the past by the way it was in the past takes place and in cash and takes place with bach shipment because you know, we're talking about large amount of money. i mean, i gave you an example. i actually came across a situation like this in, as in tina. so people in the united states want to buy property in one of cyrus because you know, they want to have a place to go during the summer months. so or,

you know, whatever, you know, but they can't really bring the money in so easily, you know, the, them to take them out because there are no one entire section. so what did they do? they range for people that they know to do the exchange. so let's say, you know, you are in a resident of the cyrus, you are a professional and you want to send your children to school in the united states and you have to pay the fees in us dollars. so instead of doing the transfer of money, which of course will be tax and also regulated, at least you know, until recently, where you do is you, you get into an arrangement with somebody in the united states. and you will provide the money in the window situs to buy an apartment uh for this person. and the next change,

this person will pay the fees of your children. they are going to university know this is a very, very, i would say, middle class level, any happens all the time. now, do people know that by doing that, they may, gets involved with money laundering? i think you lots of people don't, but this is a very, very easy way to overcome restriction the on both side. so through this kind of connection. so yeah, i'll do you stop something like that to see in order to stop something like that, where you need is to educate people, to teach them that by doing that by behaving in this way. that actually, you know, breaking the role. but also, they are supporting any legal activity. this is just one of the

many example. and then of course, you also have, you know, the, are towards the same to be, it can be applied to the art ward you, you, if you are buying something go, which is very expensive. if you're buying a castle or you know, in a row, that's going to be very difficult. but if you buy, let's say, and middle to lower side artist, which is not very well. no, no, it is in you. it doesn't require a lot of money. then. yes, you can easily do something like that and you say, well, i'll do the loan, the millions of millions, hundreds of millions. uh by doing. got it. just repeat the same old peroration over and over again now. or there's plenty of people who are willing to get into this kind of activity to loretta and apply on it. internationally recognized expert

ontario's financing. thank you for speaking with us, but don't go away. we're going to take a short break. and when we come back, we'll continue our conversation and ask her about the methods by which terrace are prevented from financing and how the must constantly change. stay tuned. 2 2 acceptance, and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. search like why watch something that's so different. listed of opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please, or do they have the state department, the c, i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direction, but again, we don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you

today, the arab countries are in my view, in a stronger position than they were in 1973. they carry much more economic weight and they didn't 1973 today guys. uh united something and. and it's very clear that the palestinian issue is not going to go away and there is no way it is real. will be integrated in the region before this browsing issue is resolved the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto we're speaking with officer journalist and terrorist financing expert loretta nipple a on a. loretta thanks again for being with us. thank you. loretta. i spent 15 years in the c, i a working on counterterrorism followed by 2 years as the chief investigator at

the senate foreign relations committee. i remember very well how complicated tracking terrorist money was. and i remember how so many big important international banks found themselves involved. it was probably inadvertent, but there was also an element of bank leaders being blinded by greed. that's would cause them to look the other way for far too long. has this been your experience and if so has that changed? oh, yes, absolutely. i a s b in my experience also things have changed. um see, i would say significantly after 911 because of the banking regulation. it is not as easy as it was in the past, but this is still take place. i'm afraid. yes. this is an element because as come

into the equation and recent to you and this is creep to conferences. so now i, a beast calling is very much a core and say that is tracked every single step. now initially, bitcoin was use the bi claim, an organization on the doc net. it was also used for money laundering, but that stopped because now it is clear that you can track of every single step of the beads calling the bulk chain. and eventually, when you go and exchange the beat, the beat calling for in a real money which can be any quarter and says, this is when the mechanism out of the investigation actually can block you. we have several cases was seen in recent. you know where, you know, people where long getting billions and there was a hand discover that actually was the f

b i that they did the 1st major but break through with big coins. but these calling is just one of the many, many, many, crypt accordance is some, some of these crypt mclawrence is like monopoly money. how do you just being created out of, you know, the success of a certain organization which of pulled up, you know, web page is or that they sell service and kind of services on the internet . so through that kind of a crypto color and see if it is possible to long throwing their money because there is no control because you know, there is no, it's impossible to patrol every single transaction without the the block chain, which includes this typical only of the beach calling the now the banking system,

a dozen deal openly in bates calling audio, now beach coolness, part of the financial industry, let's say in the, in the united states. so technically speaking, you could to, to beach can still do these kind of, i could see with the other, you know, is i don't think i haven't seen it anyway. i mean, even organizations are not relying on on beach call. and then you know that there are many other ways um, there is a formal banking system for example, known as a, sorry only there while a but also the informal banking system which is use in, in china. i mean, the chinese do land each other money to a new form, a banking system or, and often the system is based upon in a large family. so if you really want to money loaned me to uh

channels which are either the banking system, the or you know, the informa banking system, you can still do it. but you will have to be more careful than you are before. i actually wanted to ask you about that. specifically. i did an investigation more than a decade ago for john kerry when he was the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee. i went to the middle east and i was able to transfer just as a test, $50.00 to myself, through something called while i went to a small shop in abu dhabi. i gave him in $50.00. he gave me a very long number by which to later claimed the money. and when i got home to washington, i went to an arrow bakery. i gave the man there my number and i got my $50.00 back . this was very small stakes, of course, but are these while as used to finance terrorist groups and if so,

what can be done to regulate them? of course there is there while there is use for terrorist financing. i mean, it's not, as we just know, the deal wallace system is uh, uh, controlled by terrace organization. absolutely not. but the wallet system is so you just am, is all over toward is, you know, as a silver global assist them is, um, is actually very cheap in comparison to other systems. so transfer like, you know, west and, you know, for example, ice very quick. uh you can do, i mean you, you must have experienced that. um, it's, um, is also linked to the goal. and so the, the reserves of their walla are actually in gold suite. it so you can even transfer gold instead of you know, transferring money. if it is possible to do that to,

and that's it may be actually a good way to avoid the controls because, i mean golda is yes, this tangible but it's difficult to face it. so there, while i was there, the advantage of the wireless is a to goes everywhere so, so you can find in a while a door to somebody that can transfer the money and gave you the money everywhere in the ward. so, you know, you could, you can be up in the mountains, in pakistan and, and use the water. now the, of the use of the wall, i would say, in terms of the terrace financing is at the micro level. is he either small donations, for example? no, so we're not seeing and saudi arabia, for example. i mean,

any body respond sitting go on, took any zation for inside. there is no going to use that while it's going to use that x to either means bulk shipment of cash being the most uh the most use and the preferable one. but a global level, the sympathizer, the people in the depths, well actually look at that group, but that arms are going to zation that they believe that is fighting for the freedom of the read. you know, i, i specified that the freedom of the region because most of the people that actually are sponsoring in the, in this way, people that i've no idea what to tell who was going to inpatient. is they really do believe that the group that they are funding is a group was finding that's, you know, for the freedom of their own people. so these kind of individual all over towards,

you know, used in walla to find, know the various organization as they use the wallet. also do fun. charge is they do a good job in, in that range. what's the next financing battlefield, loretta? do government still have to worry about the banks? can money still be transferred on a large scale and homeless strategies change in order to keep up with the terrorist to? i think we're already in the, in the next show. the fields or the new frontier is actually cyber sad or is this very little is reported about not so many, many companies, so do not report that they have been hacked by organization that require payment, runs on the ransom is today the around some of us, which is also a button,

particularly i would say run some of the cyber attacks is one of the most important source of tanner is financing. and we know very little about that. so imagine a it'd be good and he's ation and be corporation that gets hacked. and they would run some way and they ask for payment up to $200.00 millions, that's only that organization will pay as quickly as you possibly can. so that nobody would know that is being hacked. because you, if you, if the news that you're being hacked comes how to then the reputation of this organization is going to be damage. and there is no way there is no way that you can protect and present yourself from these kind of back attacks. so hacking is the new frontier,

and perhaps this is why we haven't seen a lot of financial activity for tatters, sign on so you can not a feels because the old takes place in the documents of the internet to the right of that was absolutely brilliant. thank you so much for coming on the show. well, thank you john. know they share this. all of us have been effected by terrorist and then one way or another, whether it's americans arriving for a normal day's work on the morning of september, 11th, 2001 russians gathering in the theater to listen to some music earlier this year. or anybody else in any of the world's countries. terrorism, of course, can never be accepted, never under any circumstances. it's up to us to fight together with methods that do not compromise our respect for the rules of law and for human rights. that's why we owe such

a debt of gratitude to people like loretta napoleonic. i know that i for 1 am indebted thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto please follow me on subsets at john kerry, uncle. we'll see you next time. 2 the, by the middle of the 19th century, practically the whole of india had been under the rule of the british and by the colonial authorities that imposed that heavy death. bringing the people into poverty ex, 40 natural resources. and moreover, these authorities absolutely had no consideration for the physicians of the local

population, treating them like 2nd class citizens. the british were showing signs of disrespect even to those and cooperated with them. the facts of ignoring the religious believes of the hindus led them. you niels as the voice, mercenary soldiers serving under the british crown, 3000000000 began on the 10th of may 1857 in the garrison town of may river, north of india, the form of abuse. the rebels quickly took the over dallas that he rode. resistance of the indian people lasted for one and a half years. however, the forces were not equal. the colonial authorities dealt with the rebels, cruel, late fee and slaves. the boys were tied to the mouth of the cannon and were shot right through their bodies for the amusement of the populace. these type of execution was called the gables, with the obliteration of them you may result in the death of 800000 inhabitants of the indians. however, the british empire never broke the free spirit of the indians and their will or

resist the wrongs presidential race had to run off with bowman. i'm as soon as i scan and conservative side deliveries that the phase of next week, pacific images a head to another tragedy on our lands. enemies fired civilians are civilians died . 5 people were killed. 2 were injured, including 2 small children and deadly ukrainian shelling all russian folder regions result in civilian fates. holidays with several residential buildings shops on the damage in the attack, the new york times close beside and to quit the presidential race. so say kilometer is the bank for full, but reinforcing speculation. but democrats have turned all along to put forward.